Freedom of speech is about the GOVERNMENT limiting your speech. It doesn't mean a person can say whatever they want, and other people have to just accept that. In other words, everyone has the freedom to voice their opinions and everyone else has the freedom to disagree and act accordingly.
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Apple Fires Newly Hired Ex-Facebook Product Manager Following Revelations of Past Misogynistic Comments
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Freedom of speech is about the GOVERNMENT limiting your speech. It doesn't mean a person can say whatever they want, and other people have to just accept that. In other words, everyone has the freedom to voice their opinions and everyone else has the freedom to disagree and act accordingly.
Is it? Did you read the quote about soft & weak Bay Area women in the context in which it was written? I will guess that you were too lazy to.
He's describing a woman that made the typical women he would meet in the Bay Area seem far inferior.
"She made Bob Vila of This Old House look like a ****ing *****."
"...after a few years she was an equity derivatives trader at Deutsche, holding her own against the toff sharks of the City of London. She had wild green eyes, with unnatural red spots in her irises when you pulled close, reminiscent of that Afghan girl from the National Geographic cover. Her personality was flinty and rough, and as leathery as her skin. She had spent years between various jobs backpacking around the rougher parts of the world. She was an imposing, broad- shouldered presence, six feet tall in bare feet, and towering over me in heels."
Where's all the indignation over poor Bob Villa's feelings???
That’s pretty funny, because his assessment of women in the Bay Area and California in general is spot on - maybe such a vacuous group of people should take their faces out of their mocha lattes and open a book or two.
And I suspect you personally are a treat who is well qualified to make such a statement about all women in an entire state. It’s absolutely disgusting of you to make such a sweeping generalisation about women. You should be ashamed of yourself and you should look deep and hard at what gives you the right to say as such. Hint- this is not freedom of speech, this is a deep seated disdain for females.
Don’t forget, you yourself said:
”…his assessment of women in the Bay Area and California in general is spot on - maybe such a vacuous group of people should take their faces out of their mocha lattes and open a book or two”
What on earth would your mother say if you spoke to her with that tongue?
His mother? Don't you mean his birthing person? And why would you assume that this person identifies as a female? Do you have something against the LGBTQQIP2SAA community?
Tongue in cheek here, but you can see how easily someone can be cancelled. People are too sensitive...
I did, and then I read other parts that were about women in general, where he views women as a commodity:
The fastest way to cheapen anything—be it a woman, a favor, or a work of art—is to put a price tag on it.
Also, if he were applying for a job at This Old House and got fired for talking crap about Bob Vila, wouldn't that would also be justified
Maybe I'm in the minority, but maybe Apple employees have a right to tell their higher-ups that their hiring decisions are making their work environment uncomfortable?
So its just another "Think like us or else" move
Apparently not enough safe spaces/rooms were constructed in the mother ship.
This makes a lot of sense. i know my life is going swimmingly well when I’m spazzing out about stuff that‘s no big deal. We all need to work on trying not to feel offended 24/7 and, even if you are offended, you have to understand that that is the price of living in a free society where there are diverse thoughts.
Another thing to consider… if everyone’s solution to ideas that are distasteful is to cancel the person, how will we ever be able to communicate with each other? How will you be able to convince him that his words are hurtful? Or conversely, how would you ever understand why he feels the way he does about certain women?
For those who are liberal leaning, like myself, we are supposed to value diversity… that includes diversity of thought.
This is called Communist tyranny and currently from what I see about America, you all remind me of the USSR. America is now becoming what we all in the Soviet Union fought against - communist oppression.
I agree people need to get second chances. But I feel weird about him writing a book at all. Even if it was supposed to be “tongue and cheek” as you say. Someone who feels remorse for something they did wants to apologize and move on and be better. Not make jokes. Seems like he was trying to get some money from the situation not trying to move on.
and if he wrote it as some kind of therapy thing that is called a Journal or diary. Should not be published
He got off easy - he should have been arrested! His beliefs are clearly causing harm to a vast number of people. Ideally, we will soon live in a world where this kind of content will be illegal. Of course, it would be illegal to publish it in the first place, so these people will just write this stuff in private. We'll have to grant the authority to someone to search people's possessions for any objectionable material. Maybe then we will be safe from wrong think.
/s
There is so much that can be said on this topic, and both sides have very valid concerns. I'll just say this. You don't change people's mind by antagonizing, shaming and ostracizing them. That just breeds resentment. If you've never heard of Megan Phelps-Roper, you should watch the following videos. She is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Here's before and after videos that are well worth your time:
/s
There is so much that can be said on this topic, and both sides have very valid concerns. I'll just say this. You don't change people's mind by antagonizing, shaming and ostracizing them. That just breeds resentment. If you've never heard of Megan Phelps-Roper, you should watch the following videos. She is a former member of the Westboro Baptist Church. Here's before and after videos that are well worth your time:
It does depend on which side ones happen to land on and with whom are the stakes. For example, there’s a lot of “pro support towards Asian communities because they have been targeted overwhelmingly lately”, but at the same time they get denied on Ivy League universities to which they have all the requisites and high scores (as it’s the stereotype of Asian culture to be studies and hard work driven since little kids) because of quotas... so, that same mindset is unapologetically used to discriminate against a potential better candidate because that candidate happens to be... (pause for effect)... of Asian background.
Like you mention, I guess there are some races more worthy of diversity than others.
Also there’s a lot of screaming around that “we are all equal, everything is a social construct” yet an incredibly large amount of effort is spent in finding all the possible tiny differences on many fronts, real and/or manufactured. I got a squared headed rationally inclined mindset and can’t really stand when 2+2 is said to not be 4.
Got off topic though, can’t really comment on the issue at hand as I have no real info on what’s going on... but I can conclude by the thread’s temperature that the vast majority is tired of the cancel and woke culture.
Not gonna comment on the topic at large as I have no stakes in it, let them deal however they decided to, but on the advice itself something to think about:
If someone says he or she is a super successful multimillionaire person, or that person writes a book about how to be an ultra successful or promises the cure for cancer, I wouldn’t assume that’s who they are. Otherwise that train of thinking would allow scammers have their field day every single time.
Anecdotal but for example, Robin Williams would act, write, behave and speak like a well settled very happy human being, made an insanely successful life career out of that yet was sad and depressed and ended up deleting himself :-(
This is BAD, VERY BAD from Apple.
Where do I start?
0. Just to state the obvious from the beginning: I do not have the same opinion as those expressed in the excerpts that Mr. Martinez wrote. But in my professional experience as an engineer in the Bay Area, I have seen my share of incompetent women in tech that had the position only because they were women. This is no secret.
1. I really liked Chaos Monkeys. It's a great book. It explains the beginnings of FB and the general tech culture of the time. It is written in a very tongue-in-cheek, bombastic style, which I *really* enjoyed. I do not recall the small quote cited by the petitioners. If you read that book and all you remember is that quote, you have not understood what he wanted to say
2. I also liked Antonio Martinez in the book. He is smart. He is not from a privileged background and what he earned, he earned with hard work and the luck of being at the right place at the right time. He says what he thinks. He clearly does not need to work. He is financially secure. Good for him
3. Just reading that petition makes me sick. It leaves a disgusting taste in my mouth. A bunch of entitled, intolerant jerks. If you are one of those 2000 people who signed it, I wish you to be fired for nothing like this one day. Note the words "we are entitled" appear more than once. But I want to ask you this: what kind of society do you want? I want a society that is MORE TOLERANT, not less. The inquisition is in the dustbin of history. I do not want it to come back
4. Just in what way do words that were written to sell a book years ago matter today, in your work? How does hiring Mr. Martinez change anything in your work environment? Please tell me.
5. What is next, an ideological test to be hired at Apple? I believe everyone is entitle to his/her opinions. As far as the company is concerned, only professional performance should be considered. All else is private.
Where do I start?
0. Just to state the obvious from the beginning: I do not have the same opinion as those expressed in the excerpts that Mr. Martinez wrote. But in my professional experience as an engineer in the Bay Area, I have seen my share of incompetent women in tech that had the position only because they were women. This is no secret.
1. I really liked Chaos Monkeys. It's a great book. It explains the beginnings of FB and the general tech culture of the time. It is written in a very tongue-in-cheek, bombastic style, which I *really* enjoyed. I do not recall the small quote cited by the petitioners. If you read that book and all you remember is that quote, you have not understood what he wanted to say
2. I also liked Antonio Martinez in the book. He is smart. He is not from a privileged background and what he earned, he earned with hard work and the luck of being at the right place at the right time. He says what he thinks. He clearly does not need to work. He is financially secure. Good for him
3. Just reading that petition makes me sick. It leaves a disgusting taste in my mouth. A bunch of entitled, intolerant jerks. If you are one of those 2000 people who signed it, I wish you to be fired for nothing like this one day. Note the words "we are entitled" appear more than once. But I want to ask you this: what kind of society do you want? I want a society that is MORE TOLERANT, not less. The inquisition is in the dustbin of history. I do not want it to come back
4. Just in what way do words that were written to sell a book years ago matter today, in your work? How does hiring Mr. Martinez change anything in your work environment? Please tell me.
5. What is next, an ideological test to be hired at Apple? I believe everyone is entitle to his/her opinions. As far as the company is concerned, only professional performance should be considered. All else is private.
Having worked for Facebook should have been enough for not hiring him in the first place
Well said. I am pretty sure most people have not read the book, yet are outraged by a few quotes in it with no context. Context is always important and since I have not read it I won't judge a snippet from it. I guessed it was tongue in cheek from the quotes.
What would be interesting is to hear from people who worked directly under him. Did he treat his staff well or was he really a douche? That would have a lot more insight to me than cancelling him because of a few quotes.
So... you're saying you're a douchebag. Got it.
Meanwhile, as others have pointed out, where was these Apple employees' outrage over the acquisition of Beats, the enterprise of a woman-beating lowlife (Dr. Dre)?
LOL if a woman says most men are douchebags, she’ll be championed as a feminist. If a woman says silicon valley men are self-entitled toxic ******s, she will be invited to give a talk about gender "equity" at Apple. The fact is, working with unpleasant people is part of being an adult. He is a bit rude, and that is all there it is. Has he actually done anything bad to any woman?
You can be rude to douchebags too! You can say nasty things about them. But depriving them of employment? That’s not the free and open society I want to live in.
You can be rude to douchebags too! You can say nasty things about them. But depriving them of employment? That’s not the free and open society I want to live in.
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even if its not taken to be serious even he shouldnt talk such bs in the fist place
So what? Never seen an incompetent man in tech? They’re ten a penny.