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Apple Fires Newly Hired Ex-Facebook Product Manager Following Revelations of Past Misogynistic Comments

bklement said:
Stop strawmanning. By the way, if the description fitting you is insulting, maybe the problem is in you, don't you think?


Maybe stop assuming things, try to be less prejudiced.
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Not strawmanning anything. He said it’s ok to insult this group of Bay Area women because it’s ok to insult small groups as it’s not the whole population.
You said it’s ok to insult bald fat white men as the stereotype is true.
So what, how about someone who says they hate all Mexican men becuase they’re murderers and rapists, for example?
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
Oh right. Only certain women. Oh that’s ok then. Phew.
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Am I misogynistic if I say that I say most american women have terrible clothing tastes compared to european ones ? What if most european women think the same as well ? Are they misogynistic as well ?

You could try arguing that this is not true, and maybe come up with solid arguments why you think I ( and a lot of european women ) are mistaken in thinking this, and you might even be right ( although I don't think so) . but if you try to defend against this argument by simply extending the small subset of american women to the ENTIRE females of the world and proclaiming "Misogyny !!" , don't be surprised if the rest of the world's female population says you are self-centered and arrogant by assuming you are the yardstick by which the rest of the world should be measured to.

Bottom line : "most Bay Area women" is NOT equivalent to "ALL women of the world". Despite what they may believe in their self-centered libertarian arrogance.
 
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On day that we learned Chrissy Tiegan used social media to tell a 16 year old to straight up kill herself, this seems awful in contrast.
 
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WilburMercer said:
I'm not sure I agree with this.

Haven't we all said things in the past we regret?

The rule seems to be don't get caught. I'm not a fan of that.

There should be some way for people to be forgiven. Why destroy a man's life because he once said a few rude comments about the women around him?
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Has Antonio García Martínez actually apologized? His website still promotes the book front-and-center, filled with misogynies.
 
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ginkobiloba said:
Am I misogynistic if I say that I say most american women have terrible clothing tastes compared to european ones ? What if most european women think the same as well ? Are they misogynistic as well ?

You could try arguing that this is not true, and maybe come up with solid arguments why you think I ( and a lot of european women ) are mistaken in thinking this, and you might even be right ( although I don't think so) . but if you try to defend against this argument by simply extending the small subset of american women to the ENTIRE females of the world , don't be surprised if the rest of the world's female population says you are self-centered and arrogant by assuming you are the yardstick by which the rest of the world should be measured to.

Bottom line : "most Bay Area women" is NOT the entire women population of the world. Despite what they may believe in their self-centered arrogance.
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The problem is, is that you’re completely missing the point. It’s ok, people are slowly learning, in a few more generations when the old guard are gone, people will understand why casual misogyny is an unnecessary evil, just as people are starting understanding the same about casual racism.
 
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bklement said:
Half-military organizations are different matter. Is Apple one? I wouldn't cite UK as positive example, since one of their judges likened the conduct of police officers harassing people for their tweets to the Gestapo.
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So they are only uncivilized if it's the private sector that can fire them?
 
cupcakes2000 said:
Not strawmanning anything. He said it’s ok to insult this group of Bay Area women because it’s ok to insult small groups as it’s not the whole population.
You said it’s ok to insult bald fat white men as the stereotype is true.
So what, how about someone who says they hate all Mexican men becuase they’re murderers and rapists, for example?
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Don't try to derail the conversation now that you finally realized you are wrong. The topic is whether using adjectives before nouns qualifies a subset. From the quote it's clear that this was the case.

Honestly I stopped caring what Americans find insulting years ago, so I leave that subject to you. Have a nice day.
 
WestonHarvey1 said:
If we had the technology to probe the memories of every Apple employee, absolutely no one would be qualified to work there. Not Tim Cook, no one.
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I'm not for second trying to suggest anything else, just being realistic. Somethings you may have done in your past will not be forgotten, it's naive to think otherwise.
 
bklement said:
Don't try to derail the conversation now that you finally realized you are wrong. The topic is whether using adjectives before nouns qualifies a subset. From the quote it's clear that this was the case.

Honestly I stopped caring what Americans find insulting years ago, so I leave that subject to you. Have a nice day.
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I’m not wrong, and in case you didn’t notice, I’m not the only one who has this opinion. And I’m not American - strange assumption.
 
mattyj2001 said:
I tend to agree. There's no possible way Apple didn't know about the book and likely initially planned to back him up or educate/indoctrinate him into the "Apple way", give him an opportunity to apologize, explain, grow, etc.

Instead they immediately thew him under the bus. Teen Vogue did the same thing with their new editor that said some stupid stuff on Twitter when she was 17 and ended up not standing behind her.

I don't know this guy from Job, maybe he is a real jerk, but I find it hard to believe that a company like Apple didn't know exactly what they were getting into and didn't have a plan to deal with it show everyone why they made the hire in the first place. Why did they lose their nerve so quickly?
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I have heard many things from Apple employees lately about misogynist, racially insensitive, and aggressive behavior, and I can tell you they almost certainly had zero plans to make any mention of his past or given him a chance to apologize (whether he would've take it or not). They would've just ignored it and kept promoting him. I think they were hoping no one would make a big deal about it, but they were wrong. The things this guy said in his book should have stopped any potential hiring before it started.
Calling a group of women, kidding or not, "soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of ****." and "the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel" is not something you want in a colleague. Who would wanna work with this guy? Would any woman or decent human want to sit in a meeting with him and hear his opinions? He made his choice to burn any and all bridges (well, most) in Silicon Valley to sell a book. That was his calculation, and this is the result.
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
The problem is, is that you’re completely missing the point. It’s ok, people are slowly learning, in a few more generations when the old guard are gone, people will understand why casual misogyny is an unnecessary evil, just as people are starting understanding the same about casual racism.
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Actually, not understanding what misogyny and racism really is, and turning it into a parody of antiracism and anti-misogyny, while high-fiving each other on Twitter on their wokeness, is exactly why the problem is going to be far worse in the future unfortunately, thanks to this generation.

Someone like Malcom X or Simone de Beauvoir ( yeah, the old guard) has more intelligence in their little pinky than the entire collective brains of the so-called woke generation.
 
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jlc1978 said:
So they are only uncivilized if it's the private sector that can fire them?
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Yes. In civilized countries companies can only fire someone if they committed a crime, there is a general layoff or for poor work performance, but better be prepared to prove it in court if the employee disagrees.
 
gbc204 said:
Calling a group of women, kidding or not, "soft and weak, cosseted and naive despite their claims of worldliness, and generally full of ****." and "the sort of useless baggage you’d trade for a box of shotgun shells or a jerry can of diesel" is not something you want in a colleague. Who would wanna work with this guy? Would any woman or decent human want to sit in a meeting with him and hear his opinions?
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Rather a lot of posters here would, if you read through the thread!
 
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His post-book comments are the most telling:
"You think I’m bad, you should meet other people in tech.

Here’s the scoop: outsiders who know nothing about Silicon Valley think I’m terrible.

Insiders who know the game well think I’m actually honest, self-deprecating, and funny, and actually tame by Valley standards.

You’re evidently the former, as are many of the one-star reviews on AMZN.

The latter are the five-star reviews and the gushing Tweets.
Maybe the real problem is that most people don’t really understand how the Valley works, thinking it looks like what’s on the front page of Fortune magazine. Rather than re-adjust their vision, they choose to shoot the messenger. It’s certainly their right, but I’d hope they act otherwise."

His argument seems to be "well, it's a terrible place and I'm just showing it by being less terrible and we can't change it so suck it up." Maybe, and call me crazy, people who aren't like this and work in tech think it's terrible that this is a normal attitude in the tech industry. Maybe they want to stop rewarding people who act like this.
 
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cupcakes2000 said:
I’m not wrong, and in case you didn’t notice, I’m not the only one who has this opinion. And I’m not American - strange assumption.
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A billion flies can't be wrong, right?

You don't have to be American, since you clearly care about what they find insulting. I've used you as a plural you. Damn, English is just wierd sometimes.
 
As usual, fake outrage and misrepresentation of what the guy said. His "offensive" comment said Bay-Area women are lame. That's it. BAY-AREA. He was making a snarky generalization about people found in a geographic area, not about women in general. He didn't mention men because he was talking about a heterosexual relationship.

And "racist?" Where? That's an even bigger stretch. Those whining that the quotes are "racist" are probably also pushing their illegitimate and unwanted "Latinx" shìt on everyone.

Anyone bìṭcḥing about the cited passages in this novel are inviting backlash over "cancel culture," and embarrassing themselves. Pathetic.
 
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bklement said:
Yes. In civilized countries companies can only fire someone if they committed a crime, there is a general layoff or for poor work performance, but better be prepared to prove it in court if the employee disagrees.
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So some employees are second class citizens in a civilized country.

Or, to be more civilized, simply hire people on short term contracts rather than hiring them permanently so they never fire them, just don't renew the contract.
 
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