Apple Found Not Responsible in Fatal Car Crash Involving Distracted Driver Using FaceTime

[MileHighPilot]

No you’d be wrong as the evidence shows otherwise, and you’re not some unique special driver, if you’ve got your phone sat in front of you with your daughters FaceTiming you, that’s a driver distraction and I doubt any Police officers would listen to your baseless argument. They’ve peeled far too many dead bodies of the road...

show me what evidence shows answering a facetime call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket is more dangerous than answering a phone call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket
ill wait for the evidence
the phone isnt in front of me it is either in my pocket or the navigation mount to the side
my attention to the video portion of facetime is none therefor it is no different than a phone call
it is no more driver distraction than answering a call that is routed through the Bluetooth in my truck
my argument is hardly baseless but backed up in fact
you cannot claim that listening to a facetime call is more distracting than listening to a phone call because they are the same
as i said it would be more distracting to ignore my wife or daughters' facetime and make a regular call back to them

By the way, just how do you switch back to Apple Maps after your FaceTime call then? Which button do you press for that?

i swipe and hit maps through feel as maps is the only other app running
something ive done even while not driving
no eyes are taken off the road therefor it is not a problem and negates anything you said

You are the one who should be banned from driving.

ive done tasks that are more involved than talking on the phone while driving and came out successful
people who don't have enough situational awareness to talk on the phone and drive shouldnt drive period

 

[MEJHarrison]

anyone who doesnt have enough situational awareness to talk on the phone and drive shouldnt drive

I hope you don't live anywhere close to me. You ARE part of the problem.

I'm constantly amazed at how people think they're somehow the exception to factual evidence.

 

[ignatius345]

Maybe I'm smarter than the next guy, or maybe I'm just a worse driver and therefore more paranoid, I don't know, but when I'm in a demanding situation driving, I do ask for conversation to be held to a minimum, turn off the radio, etc. so I can focus better on the road.

Honestly I think that makes you a better driver than people who idiotically insist they can drive on autopilot all the time. I've done the same thing at times, asked people in the car to shut the F up for a minute while I'm negotiating some hairy multi-lane merge or whatever, then resumed the chat later when there's less happening. And that's one big difference with talking to people IN your vehicle: they are also involved and (presumably) somewhat aware of the context. People on the phone have zero idea what the moment to moment situation is.

Think about it: if driving was as easy as some of these distraction apologists say, why is it that the best sensors and computers we can come up with can still barely manage it?
[doublepost=1545251272][/doublepost]

youll have to ask my wife or daughters who are the ones who facetime me
as my audio is routed over my Bluetooth in my truck and i am not looking at the screen it is no different than receiving a regular call from my wife or daughter

I only hope that whatever crash you eventually cause with this bull **** (if you haven't already) doesn't hurt anyone. And shame on you for the example you're setting for your daughters.

 

[StellarVixen]

Imagine losing your 5 year old child.

That's called "appeal to emotion" and is not the valid argument. Whether it is 5 year old child or 85 year old person, the conclusion is same, Apple is not responsible.

 

[I7guy]

Honestly I think that makes you a better driver than people who idiotically insist they can drive on autopilot all the time. I've done the same thing at times, asked people in the car to shut the F up for a minute while I'm negotiating some hairy multi-lane merge or whatever, then resumed the chat later when there's less happening. And that's one big difference with talking to people IN your vehicle: they are also involved and (presumably) somewhat aware of the context. People on the phone have zero idea what the moment to moment situation is.

Think about it: if driving was as easy as some of these distraction apologists say, why is it that the best sensors and computers we can come up with can still barely manage it?
[doublepost=1545251272][/doublepost]

I only hope that whatever crash you cause with this bull **** doesn't hurt anyone and teaches you a lesson.

I thought it was just me that did exactly what you did.

I wonder how most of us would feel if while landing at 5,000 feet pilots took out their iPhones so they could FaceTime their significant others, while it was windy and raining.

 

[apolloa]

show me what evidence shows answering a facetime call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket is more dangerous than answering a phone call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket
ill wait for the evidence
the phone isnt in front of me it is either in my pocket or the navigation mount to the side
my attention to the video portion of facetime is none therefor it is no different than a phone call
it is no more driver distraction than answering a call that is routed through the Bluetooth in my truck
my argument is hardly baseless but backed up in fact
you cannot claim that listening to a facetime call is more distracting than listening to a phone call because they are the same
as i said it would be more distracting to ignore my wife or daughters' facetime and make a regular call back to them

i swipe and hit maps through feel as maps is the only other app running
something ive done even while not driving
no eyes are taken off the road therefor it is not a problem and negates anything you said

ive done tasks that are more involved than talking on the phone while driving and came out successful
people who don't have enough situational awareness to talk on the phone and drive shouldnt drive period

I didn’t say with your phone in your pocket, don’t try to twist what I said around.

Also it IS a distraction to have your phone in a cradle to the side of your vision, and I also believe it is illegal to have it showing video, even a video call whilst your driving.

And not only that, you’ve just admitted to breaking the law, by using your phone whilst driving as I suspected, it causes deaths FACT, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself and the utterly disgraceful example your setting your children, you shouldn’t be a parent if this is what you do, because you are a reckless careless driver, an accident just waiting to happen. I hope a Police officer sees you use it your phone and bans you for it!

Arrogant people with attitudes like you kill other road users daily. I hope your daughters don’t crash and kill themselves whilst using phones because you’ve set the example.

Don’t bother replying, I don’t care or have any sympathy for those who deliberately endanger others.

 

[jav6454]

A gun is a weapon, it is designed to kill, that’s an utterly pointless argument to make.
And a chicken bone? Really?...

As for speeding yes I do believe car makers, in fact some already do, limit your speeds to the speed limit area your in.
I also did not claim Apple were liable, you seem to have confused my post of humans being so utterly thick and selfish that manufactures should make devices stopping them from endangering lives, to Apple is liable and people shouldn’t go after them?
Your argument is proven as flawed due to the people killed or seriously injured on the roads daily by phone users. Not including any other accidents they cause. Where is your proof people have any personal responsibility?

Then why did Congress pass a law exempting them? Yes, a chicken bone. People can and will make such claims.

Which car makers? Which cars have said standard features (across all trim models)? Not one car manufacturer limits speeds actively. Manufacturers have in fact added speed regulation when the driver explicitly activated a driver assist feature. Let's use Ford's Active Cruise Control for example. You have to activate it for it to sort of handle speeds in the highway. Even then, it is a not a 100% speed regulation system as it will deactivate under certain conditions. Also, it will not use posted speed limits (like construction zone limits) to adjust a preset speed, the driver has too. You may argue Tesla's Autopilot, but it is still a driver assist feature, not driver judgement replacement.

All those features have very clear disclaimers that their systems are not driver judgement replacement and that the driver should maintain control over the vehicle at all times. Hence, it is pretty much telling you, that the car maker is responsible if you exceed a posted speed limit and kill someone.

I have explicitly stated that a driver driving distracted by phone usage (text, call or video call) is responsible for their collision as it constitutes reckless driving and endangerment to others (ie manslaughter). It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure their and other's safety when operating a vehicle. No phone is responsible for you driving distracted.

What proof do you want when it comes to personal responsibility? I mean, do you claim a phone is responsible for your collision? I know I don't.

 

[MileHighPilot]

I hope you don't live anywhere close to me. You ARE part of the problem.

to my knowledge my state doesnt have a handsfree law so im breaking no law
also i am not part of the problem as my situational awareness is excellent enough to talk on the phone and drive

I'm constantly amazed at how people think they're somehow the exception to factual evidence.

im still waiting on proof of how answering a facetime while not looking at the phone with audio over Bluetooth is any different than answering a regular phone call

I only hope that whatever crash you eventually cause with this bull **** (if you haven't already) doesn't hurt anyone. And shame on you for the example you're setting for your daughters.

my driving record is clean aside from some tickets due to having a BMW M5 in the past and driving it like it was meant to be driven
also my daughters know to only answer calls over Bluetooth and not to text while driving

I didn’t say with your phone in your pocket, don’t try to twist what I said around.

im not but i have made it clear that i am in no way looking at the screen during any portion of the conversation
factually it is no different than answering a call and i am still wanting to know how it is more dangerous as you claimed

Also it IS a distraction to have your phone in a cradle to the side of your vision, and I also believe it is illegal to have it showing video, even a video call whilst your driving.

also it is perfectly legal in my state
as i have repeatedly stated i answer the facetime (using the steering wheel button) and swipe back to navigation all without looking
if i had to take my eyes off the road i wouldnt do it
the only exception is when the phone is in my pocket where i just answer using the button on the steering wheel
again it is no different than answering a voice call

And not only that, you’ve just admitted to breaking the law, by using your phone whilst driving as I suspected, it causes deaths FACT, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself and the utterly disgraceful example your setting your children, you shouldn’t be a parent if this is what you do, because you are a reckless careless driver, an accident just waiting to happen. I hope a Police officer sees you use it your phone and bans you for it!

youre assuming my state has a law pertaining to using the phone while driving
they dont as i am over 18 and im not texting so no law is being broken
again im not looking at the screen during any portion of this so theres nothing dangerous but please tell me how to raise my 2 teenage daughters
also i am not sure where youre from but in my country the police cannot ban you for breaking a traffic law
actually i cant even think of a country where you can be banned for breaking a traffic law and ive driven in plenty of countries and also have been to more countries than i can name

Arrogant people with attitudes like you kill other road users daily. I hope your daughters don’t crash and kill themselves whilst using phones because you’ve set the example.

im not arrogant but in this instance youre wrong by thinking what i do is any different than answering a voice call
ive said a few times that my eyes dont leave the road and im not looking at the facetime and actually its in the background again all without looking at my phone

Don’t bother replying, I don’t care or have any sympathy for those who deliberately endanger others.

i replied because your implications are wrong
actually your head would spin if you knew what i do at 1 of my jobs thats actually more dangerous than looking at a phone while driving and it is also the method that is taught to be used
also i am still waiting on proof that answering a facetime without looking at the screen is more dangerous than a phone call like you claimed

I have explicitly stated that a driver driving distracted by phone usage (text, call or video call) is responsible for their collision as it constitutes reckless driving and endangerment to others (ie manslaughter). It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure their and other's safety when operating a vehicle. No phone is responsible for you driving distracted.

the driver is responsible for the actions just like the user of anything be it a car knife or gun
i just want to know how it was discovered the driver was facetiming at the time of the crash

 

[apolloa]

to my knowledge my state doesnt have a handsfree law so im breaking no law
also i am not part of the problem as my situational awareness is excellent enough to talk on the phone and drive

im still waiting on proof of how answering a facetime while not looking at the phone with audio over Bluetooth is any different than answering a regular phone call

my driving record is clean aside from some tickets due to having a BMW M5 in the past and driving it like it was meant to be driven
also my daughters know to only answer calls over Bluetooth and not to text while driving

im not but i have made it clear that i am in no way looking at the screen during any portion of the conversation
factually it is no different than answering a call and i am still wanting to know how it is more dangerous as you claimed

also it is perfectly legal in my state
as i have repeatedly stated i answer the facetime (using the steering wheel button) and swipe back to navigation all without looking
if i had to take my eyes off the road i wouldnt do it
the only exception is when the phone is in my pocket where i just answer using the button on the steering wheel
again it is no different than answering a voice call

youre assuming my state has a law pertaining to using the phone while driving
they dont as i am over 18 and im not texting so no law is being broken
again im not looking at the screen during any portion of this so theres nothing dangerous but please tell me how to raise my 2 teenage daughters
also i am not sure where youre from but in my country the police cannot ban you for breaking a traffic law
actually i cant even think of a country where you can be banned for breaking a traffic law and ive driven in plenty of countries and also have been to more countries than i can name

im not arrogant but in this instance youre wrong by thinking what i do is any different than answering a voice call
ive said a few times that my eyes dont leave the road and im not looking at the facetime and actually its in the background again all without looking at my phone

i replied because your implications are wrong
actually your head would spin if you knew what i do at 1 of my jobs thats actually more dangerous than looking at a phone while driving and it is also the method that is taught to be used
also i am still waiting on proof that answering a facetime without looking at the screen is more dangerous than a phone call like you claimed

the driver is responsible for the actions just like the user of anything be it a car knife or gun
i just want to know how it was discovered the driver was facetiming at the time of the crash

The driver is responsible? Well that’s a hypocritical comment to make, your incredibly irresponsible...

 

[MEJHarrison]

also i am not part of the problem as my situational awareness is excellent enough to talk on the phone and drive

That's just willful ignorance. Which isn't the end of the world except it's not just your life your put at risk, but those around you. Which makes it nearly criminal (or straight up criminal depending on the state you live in).

You ARE part of the problem. A major part of the problem.

im still waiting on proof of how answering a facetime while not looking at the phone with audio over Bluetooth is any different than answering a regular phone call

The point is that many experts suggest just doing a hand-free voice call is dangerous. Not just dangerous. Some research has suggested talking on a phone while driving (hands-free or not) is actually more dangerous than drunk driving. You're the one confusing the situation by dragging Facetime into this. Forget Facetime. That's not the problem here. It's that audio-only calls themselves are dangerous.

If you want the links, just go back and you'll find plenty already posted. I'm not wasting my time however since you've ignored plenty already. If you're really curious, check Google. Or continue to be deluded that you're more special than anyone else on the planet and somehow unique.

 

[jav6454]

The driver is responsible? Well that’s a hypocritical comment to make, your incredibly irresponsible... added to ignore list goodbye! No time for people like you!

So you accuse us of being hypocritical for placing blame on the actual driver who actually killed a kid because they were driving distracted due to their reckless action of using a phone instead of a company, because in your eyes a corporation should be held liable for how people use their products.

And we wonder why aliens don’t visit us or wish to interact with the human race. Let’s use your post as a prime example as to why that very well can be.

 

[Spizike9]

even if that did happen there is enough case law that dictates the manufacture isnt responsible for how their products are used
this lawsuit is just one example

youll have to ask my wife or daughters who are the ones who facetime me
as my audio is routed over my Bluetooth in my truck and i am not looking at the screen it is no different than receiving a regular call from my wife or daughter

you would be wrong on that argument as i am not paying attention to the facetime on the screen and switch back to maps once the call is answered
it is less distracting to take a facetime from my wife or daughters than it is to ignore their facetime and make a regular call back to them
since my oldest daughter doesnt have great cell coverage in her college dorm it might be an emergency call that i am answering from her
heres what i posted and perhaps you misunderstood but it is obvious by stating what i did that the way i answer facetime in my truck is no different than a regular phone call "i have answered facetime while driving but my phone was either on my navigation mount or in my pocket and the audio was routed through Bluetooth so in other words it was no different than answering a phone call with the audio over Bluetooth"

anyone who doesnt have enough situational awareness to talk on the phone and drive shouldnt drive

After the Sandy Hook Bushmaster was sued. I’m not sure what ended up there but it’s not the first time it’s happened.

 

[Mars56]

How stupid do you have to be to blame others for your own idiocy?
[doublepost=1545288238][/doublepost]

Whilst Apple is not liable in this case, they along with car manufactures should do more to stop this thing happening, because humans are incredibly thick and selfish and will talk with a phone glued to the side of their head, text, video chat whilst driving a 1.5 ton machine at 40 MPH plus with zero thought of the consequences!

They need to make of for the lack of any intelligence shown by these idiots behind the wheel. For they are many.

....and then someone like yourself would complain about Apple (or any other company) playing nanny state. They cannot win or lose, so better just ignore your faux concern.

 

[apolloa]

How stupid do you have to be to blame others for your own idiocy?
[doublepost=1545288238][/doublepost]

....and then someone like yourself would complain about Apple (or any other company) playing nanny state. They cannot win or lose, so better just ignore your faux concern.

I wouldn’t complain.
Also don’t make assumptions about me thanks, it’s also rather daft and naive to quote someone who is very obviously presenting an opinion, and then to make a comment claiming that they would then fly in the face of that opinion..

Your post makes no sense.

 

[T-R-S]

Stupidity is no excuse for being stupid - if your Face-timing and driving the solution is simple - you need to loose your drivers license

 

[bingeciren]

Maybe I'm smarter than the next guy, or maybe I'm just a worse driver and therefore more paranoid, I don't know, but when I'm in a demanding situation driving, I do ask for conversation to be held to a minimum, turn off the radio, etc. so I can focus better on the road. Despite emergencies of various kinds, I haven't been in an accident so far in over 30 years of driving. It's only a bad attitude that makes it impossible for other humans to do the same thing, so think about it. Arguing that you can't do anything about distractions to make your driving safer is prime evidence that you're a problem on the road. And there are studies that show that there is a difference between talking to another person in the car and talking on the phone. The dynamics of the conversation change when both participants are in the same environment. So really, everything you say is contradicted by facts. You should consider reevaluating your driving.
[doublepost=1545240909][/doublepost]

"If you think talking while driving is *NOT* distracting, then you should not be allowed to drive." Fixed the facts for you. Go do some research.
[doublepost=1545241156][/doublepost]

I agree entirely. When someone argues against this, I know they have no idea what they're talking about.

The problem with driving is that most of the time it is monotonous and low risk. Unfortunately, the rare danger appear suddenly without warning and demands full attention. A distracted (or tired, or impaired) driver can't respond to those situations effectively. No amount of bravado will change that reality.
[doublepost=1545241633][/doublepost]

It was a bit ridiculous, particularly since the FAA recommends a "sterile cockpit" approach to takeoff and landing operations -- no unnecessary conversation during those phases of flight because there have been accidents caused or exacerbated by pilots who were distracted by conversations. Commercial flights typically have one pilot flying the plane and the other handling the radio during those phases as well. Takeoff and landing aren't handled by automated systems in most planes. Piloting a commercial aircraft can be even more challenging than driving because hazards are even less frequent, but there are plenty of documented incidents with aircraft crossing runways in front of landing or departing aircraft, or pilots missing an instruction and landing on the wrong runway.

Ok let me make it clear. ANY other activity while driving, even scratching your nose, IS distracting, so is talking with someone or singing to yourself. However, if a simple conversation impairs your driving to the point of being dangerous, then really you lack the minimum skill level to operate a car. Distractions of all kinds are a part of driving, and drivers should be capable of handling them.

Apparently the law makers and the industry think these distractions are acceptable, otherwise car radios, hands free communication devices and navigation instruments built into cars would not exist.

 

[MileHighPilot]

The driver is responsible? Well that’s a hypocritical comment to make, your incredibly irresponsible... added to ignore list goodbye! No time for people like you!

yes the driver is responsible as is any user of a product
im still waiting on you to back your claim up but as i suspected you cant because you have nothing to back your claim up

That's just willful ignorance. Which isn't the end of the world except it's not just your life your put at risk, but those around you. Which makes it nearly criminal (or straight up criminal depending on the state you live in).

having and knowing that i have great situational awareness is not willful ignorance
if you knew what 1 of my jobs is youd know ive done tasks that are more involved than talking on the phone while driving and came out successful

You ARE part of the problem. A major part of the problem.

no the problem is people who are looking at their screen while driving

The point is that many experts suggest just doing a hand-free voice call is dangerous. Not just dangerous. Some research has suggested talking on a phone while driving (hands-free or not) is actually more dangerous than drunk driving. You're the one confusing the situation by dragging Facetime into this. Forget Facetime. That's not the problem here. It's that audio-only calls themselves are dangerous.

source on your claim that hands-free voice calling is dangerous
i brought up facetime as i was accused of facetiming and not just having it over Bluetooth like a phone call
so yes i brought it up to clarify that i am not actively looking at my phone while driving and i just have the audio on the Bluetooth in my truck
besides my truck has enough safety features that it would have avoided a collision if i got distracted
actually the safety features are a little too good since it tries to stop me when i park my car in front of my house
again a source on audio only calls being dangerous

If you want the links, just go back and you'll find plenty already posted. I'm not wasting my time however since you've ignored plenty already. If you're really curious, check Google. Or continue to be deluded that you're more special than anyone else on the planet and somehow unique.

i didnt see the links which is why i have kept asking for the sources
ive ignored nothing here quite the opposite
what i have said has been ignored and/or twisted to fit other posters agenda
i never said i was special that is your words

So you accuse us of being hypocritical for placing blame on the actual driver who actually killed a kid because they were driving distracted due to their reckless action of using a phone instead of a company, because in your eyes a corporation should be held liable for how people use their products.

ive always said blame the user for the product and not the manufacture
a company cant be blamed for how their users use their products

And we wonder why aliens don’t visit us or wish to interact with the human race. Let’s use your post as a prime example as to why that very well can be.

yeah its because they see what a mess we humans are

After the Sandy Hook Bushmaster was sued. I’m not sure what ended up there but it’s not the first time it’s happened.

if thats the 1 i think it is the case got thrown out
as it should
there was a federal law in place which prevented the manufactures from being sued
since a lawyer actually filed the suit they either didnt know or it was a publicity stunt
my opinion is that the law should be expanded to include all manufactures not just firearms manufactures

How stupid do you have to be to blame others for your own idiocy?

youd be surprised or maybe not
among other jobs i am an adjunct professor and i see students blaming software for their grammar errors and feel they shouldnt be held accountable

Stupidity is no excuse for being stupid - if your Face-timing and driving the solution is simple - you need to loose your drivers license

if one is looking at the screen while driving i agree

 

[bingeciren]

Here is an interesting link to read. Given the skill and the attention level of the average driver on the road, and the number of drivers using their hands-free phones, we are all doomed!

http://www.selectinternational.com/safety-blog/hands-free-device-safer-driver-research-says-no

 

[Alan Wynn]

Actually it’s been proven as scientific fact that talking to a passenger is NOT as distracting as talking on the phone whilst driving, hence why people using phones crash, people talking to passengers do not.

Please provide links to the multiple studies that establish this. People crash in many situations, including those in conversation with others in the car.

 

[MileHighPilot]

Here is an interesting link to read. Given the skill and the attention level of the average driver on the road, and the number of drivers using their hands-free phones, we are all doomed!

http://www.selectinternational.com/safety-blog/hands-free-device-safer-driver-research-says-no

thanks for the article

Please provide links to the multiple studies that establish this. People crash in many situations, including those in conversation with others in the car.

sometimes they crash through no fault of their own but due to the actions of others

 

[apolloa]

Please provide links to the multiple studies that establish this. People crash in many situations, including those in conversation with others in the car.

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2786532/amp/Travelling-passenger-makes-SAFER-driver-aware-road-conditions.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201081917.htm

 

[I7guy]

http://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2786532/amp/Travelling-passenger-makes-SAFER-driver-aware-road-conditions.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/12/081201081917.htm

Yep. situational awareness.

 

[Mars56]

I wouldn’t complain.
Also don’t make assumptions about me thanks, it’s also rather daft and naive to quote someone who is very obviously presenting an opinion, and then to make a comment claiming that they would then fly in the face of that opinion..

Your post makes no sense.

I can see why you would like to believe that it doesn't make sense, which doesn't matter. Point is - how many warnings, pop-ups and safety measures to cover all of the idiocies that humans get into are necessary to appeal to common sense?

 

[apolloa]

I can see why you would like to believe that it doesn't make sense, which doesn't matter. Point is - how many warnings, pop-ups and safety measures to cover all of the idiocies that humans get into are necessary to appeal to common sense?

Seemingly never enough? Because humans still ignore them as displayed in this thread. Hence my argument you should be forced to not use devices if it is distracting.
The new Mazda 3 car coming out had a touch screen but it turns that feature off when the car is in motion, I think that’s a good idea others should follow.
Audi and Range Rover need to use these ideas as the new A8 and Velour or however you pronounce it, have big touchscreens to control everything, and journalists who have reviewed them said they are distracting to use, I believe they have voice controls so perhaps disabling the touch screens and using those voice controls when driving is better?
Physical buttons are still beat in a car, it they don’t want to use them anymore? Even the steering wheel controls are now touch driven! Just stick a physical button there! So you know you’ve pressed it.

My point being car manufactures seem to be doing more to distract you and not less, and if you crash and are seen to be distracted by them I believe he law can prosecute you even if you were changing your air con settings.

 

[bingeciren]

The way it looks, we are going to need two people to drive a car; a driver and a co-driver, just like in rallies. One to drive, the other to adjust the air-con, play with the radio, answer the phone, navigate and warn the driver for blind spots.