Apple Found Not Responsible in Fatal Car Crash Involving Distracted Driver Using FaceTime

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. MileHighPilot, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

    MileHighPilot macrumors member

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    #176
    show me what evidence shows answering a facetime call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket is more dangerous than answering a phone call over Bluetooth while the phone is in my pocket
    ill wait for the evidence
    the phone isnt in front of me it is either in my pocket or the navigation mount to the side
    my attention to the video portion of facetime is none therefor it is no different than a phone call
    it is no more driver distraction than answering a call that is routed through the Bluetooth in my truck
    my argument is hardly baseless but backed up in fact
    you cannot claim that listening to a facetime call is more distracting than listening to a phone call because they are the same
    as i said it would be more distracting to ignore my wife or daughters' facetime and make a regular call back to them
    i swipe and hit maps through feel as maps is the only other app running
    something ive done even while not driving
    no eyes are taken off the road therefor it is not a problem and negates anything you said
    ive done tasks that are more involved than talking on the phone while driving and came out successful
    people who don't have enough situational awareness to talk on the phone and drive shouldnt drive period
     
  2. MEJHarrison macrumors 65816

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    #177
    I hope you don't live anywhere close to me. You ARE part of the problem.

    I'm constantly amazed at how people think they're somehow the exception to factual evidence.
     
  3. ignatius345, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

    ignatius345 macrumors 68000

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    #178
    Honestly I think that makes you a better driver than people who idiotically insist they can drive on autopilot all the time. I've done the same thing at times, asked people in the car to shut the F up for a minute while I'm negotiating some hairy multi-lane merge or whatever, then resumed the chat later when there's less happening. And that's one big difference with talking to people IN your vehicle: they are also involved and (presumably) somewhat aware of the context. People on the phone have zero idea what the moment to moment situation is.

    Think about it: if driving was as easy as some of these distraction apologists say, why is it that the best sensors and computers we can come up with can still barely manage it?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2018 ---
    I only hope that whatever crash you eventually cause with this bull **** (if you haven't already) doesn't hurt anyone. And shame on you for the example you're setting for your daughters.
     
  4. StellarVixen macrumors 65816

    StellarVixen

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    #179
    That's called "appeal to emotion" and is not the valid argument. Whether it is 5 year old child or 85 year old person, the conclusion is same, Apple is not responsible.
     
  5. I7guy macrumors P6

    I7guy

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    #180
    I thought it was just me that did exactly what you did.

    I wonder how most of us would feel if while landing at 5,000 feet pilots took out their iPhones so they could FaceTime their significant others, while it was windy and raining.
     
  6. apolloa macrumors G4

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    #181
    I didn’t say with your phone in your pocket, don’t try to twist what I said around.

    Also it IS a distraction to have your phone in a cradle to the side of your vision, and I also believe it is illegal to have it showing video, even a video call whilst your driving.

    And not only that, you’ve just admitted to breaking the law, by using your phone whilst driving as I suspected, it causes deaths FACT, you should be utterly ashamed of yourself and the utterly disgraceful example your setting your children, you shouldn’t be a parent if this is what you do, because you are a reckless careless driver, an accident just waiting to happen. I hope a Police officer sees you use it your phone and bans you for it!

    Arrogant people with attitudes like you kill other road users daily. I hope your daughters don’t crash and kill themselves whilst using phones because you’ve set the example.

    Don’t bother replying, I don’t care or have any sympathy for those who deliberately endanger others.
     
  7. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #182
    Then why did Congress pass a law exempting them? Yes, a chicken bone. People can and will make such claims.

    Which car makers? Which cars have said standard features (across all trim models)? Not one car manufacturer limits speeds actively. Manufacturers have in fact added speed regulation when the driver explicitly activated a driver assist feature. Let's use Ford's Active Cruise Control for example. You have to activate it for it to sort of handle speeds in the highway. Even then, it is a not a 100% speed regulation system as it will deactivate under certain conditions. Also, it will not use posted speed limits (like construction zone limits) to adjust a preset speed, the driver has too. You may argue Tesla's Autopilot, but it is still a driver assist feature, not driver judgement replacement.

    All those features have very clear disclaimers that their systems are not driver judgement replacement and that the driver should maintain control over the vehicle at all times. Hence, it is pretty much telling you, that the car maker is responsible if you exceed a posted speed limit and kill someone.

    I have explicitly stated that a driver driving distracted by phone usage (text, call or video call) is responsible for their collision as it constitutes reckless driving and endangerment to others (ie manslaughter). It is the responsibility of the driver to ensure their and other's safety when operating a vehicle. No phone is responsible for you driving distracted.

    What proof do you want when it comes to personal responsibility? I mean, do you claim a phone is responsible for your collision? I know I don't.
     
  8. MileHighPilot, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

    MileHighPilot macrumors member

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    #183
    to my knowledge my state doesnt have a handsfree law so im breaking no law
    also i am not part of the problem as my situational awareness is excellent enough to talk on the phone and drive
    im still waiting on proof of how answering a facetime while not looking at the phone with audio over Bluetooth is any different than answering a regular phone call
    my driving record is clean aside from some tickets due to having a BMW M5 in the past and driving it like it was meant to be driven
    also my daughters know to only answer calls over Bluetooth and not to text while driving
    im not but i have made it clear that i am in no way looking at the screen during any portion of the conversation
    factually it is no different than answering a call and i am still wanting to know how it is more dangerous as you claimed
    also it is perfectly legal in my state
    as i have repeatedly stated i answer the facetime (using the steering wheel button) and swipe back to navigation all without looking
    if i had to take my eyes off the road i wouldnt do it
    the only exception is when the phone is in my pocket where i just answer using the button on the steering wheel
    again it is no different than answering a voice call
    youre assuming my state has a law pertaining to using the phone while driving
    they dont as i am over 18 and im not texting so no law is being broken
    again im not looking at the screen during any portion of this so theres nothing dangerous but please tell me how to raise my 2 teenage daughters
    also i am not sure where youre from but in my country the police cannot ban you for breaking a traffic law
    actually i cant even think of a country where you can be banned for breaking a traffic law and ive driven in plenty of countries and also have been to more countries than i can name
    im not arrogant but in this instance youre wrong by thinking what i do is any different than answering a voice call
    ive said a few times that my eyes dont leave the road and im not looking at the facetime and actually its in the background again all without looking at my phone
    i replied because your implications are wrong
    actually your head would spin if you knew what i do at 1 of my jobs thats actually more dangerous than looking at a phone while driving and it is also the method that is taught to be used
    also i am still waiting on proof that answering a facetime without looking at the screen is more dangerous than a phone call like you claimed
    the driver is responsible for the actions just like the user of anything be it a car knife or gun
    i just want to know how it was discovered the driver was facetiming at the time of the crash
     
  9. apolloa, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018

    apolloa macrumors G4

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    #184
    The driver is responsible? Well that’s a hypocritical comment to make, your incredibly irresponsible...
     
  10. MEJHarrison macrumors 65816

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    #185
    That's just willful ignorance. Which isn't the end of the world except it's not just your life your put at risk, but those around you. Which makes it nearly criminal (or straight up criminal depending on the state you live in).

    You ARE part of the problem. A major part of the problem.

    The point is that many experts suggest just doing a hand-free voice call is dangerous. Not just dangerous. Some research has suggested talking on a phone while driving (hands-free or not) is actually more dangerous than drunk driving. You're the one confusing the situation by dragging Facetime into this. Forget Facetime. That's not the problem here. It's that audio-only calls themselves are dangerous.

    If you want the links, just go back and you'll find plenty already posted. I'm not wasting my time however since you've ignored plenty already. If you're really curious, check Google. Or continue to be deluded that you're more special than anyone else on the planet and somehow unique.
     
  11. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #186
    So you accuse us of being hypocritical for placing blame on the actual driver who actually killed a kid because they were driving distracted due to their reckless action of using a phone instead of a company, because in your eyes a corporation should be held liable for how people use their products.

    And we wonder why aliens don’t visit us or wish to interact with the human race. Let’s use your post as a prime example as to why that very well can be.
     
  12. Spizike9 macrumors regular

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    #187

    After the Sandy Hook Bushmaster was sued. I’m not sure what ended up there but it’s not the first time it’s happened.
     
  13. Mars56, Dec 19, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018

    Mars56 Suspended

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    #188
    How stupid do you have to be to blame others for your own idiocy?
    --- Post Merged, Dec 19, 2018 ---
    ....and then someone like yourself would complain about Apple (or any other company) playing nanny state. They cannot win or lose, so better just ignore your faux concern. :)
     
  14. apolloa macrumors G4

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    #189
    I wouldn’t complain.
    Also don’t make assumptions about me thanks, it’s also rather daft and naive to quote someone who is very obviously presenting an opinion, and then to make a comment claiming that they would then fly in the face of that opinion..

    Your post makes no sense.
     
  15. T-R-S macrumors regular

    T-R-S

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    Silicon Valley
    #190
    Stupidity is no excuse for being stupid - if your Face-timing and driving the solution is simple - you need to loose your drivers license
     
  16. bingeciren, Dec 20, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018

    bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

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    #191
    Ok let me make it clear. ANY other activity while driving, even scratching your nose, IS distracting, so is talking with someone or singing to yourself. However, if a simple conversation impairs your driving to the point of being dangerous, then really you lack the minimum skill level to operate a car. Distractions of all kinds are a part of driving, and drivers should be capable of handling them.

    Apparently the law makers and the industry think these distractions are acceptable, otherwise car radios, hands free communication devices and navigation instruments built into cars would not exist.
     
  17. MileHighPilot macrumors member

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    Oct 10, 2018
    #192
    yes the driver is responsible as is any user of a product
    im still waiting on you to back your claim up but as i suspected you cant because you have nothing to back your claim up
    having and knowing that i have great situational awareness is not willful ignorance
    if you knew what 1 of my jobs is youd know ive done tasks that are more involved than talking on the phone while driving and came out successful
    no the problem is people who are looking at their screen while driving
    source on your claim that hands-free voice calling is dangerous
    i brought up facetime as i was accused of facetiming and not just having it over Bluetooth like a phone call
    so yes i brought it up to clarify that i am not actively looking at my phone while driving and i just have the audio on the Bluetooth in my truck
    besides my truck has enough safety features that it would have avoided a collision if i got distracted
    actually the safety features are a little too good since it tries to stop me when i park my car in front of my house
    again a source on audio only calls being dangerous
    i didnt see the links which is why i have kept asking for the sources
    ive ignored nothing here quite the opposite
    what i have said has been ignored and/or twisted to fit other posters agenda
    i never said i was special that is your words
    ive always said blame the user for the product and not the manufacture
    a company cant be blamed for how their users use their products
    yeah its because they see what a mess we humans are
    if thats the 1 i think it is the case got thrown out
    as it should
    there was a federal law in place which prevented the manufactures from being sued
    since a lawyer actually filed the suit they either didnt know or it was a publicity stunt
    my opinion is that the law should be expanded to include all manufactures not just firearms manufactures

    youd be surprised or maybe not
    among other jobs i am an adjunct professor and i see students blaming software for their grammar errors and feel they shouldnt be held accountable
    if one is looking at the screen while driving i agree
     
  18. bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

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    #193
  19. Alan Wynn macrumors regular

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    #194
    Please provide links to the multiple studies that establish this. People crash in many situations, including those in conversation with others in the car.
     
  20. MileHighPilot macrumors member

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    Oct 10, 2018
    #195
    thanks for the article
    sometimes they crash through no fault of their own but due to the actions of others
     
  21. apolloa macrumors G4

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    #196
  22. Mars56 Suspended

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    #198
    I can see why you would like to believe that it doesn't make sense, which doesn't matter. Point is - how many warnings, pop-ups and safety measures to cover all of the idiocies that humans get into are necessary to appeal to common sense?
     
  23. apolloa macrumors G4

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    #199
    Seemingly never enough? Because humans still ignore them as displayed in this thread. Hence my argument you should be forced to not use devices if it is distracting.
    The new Mazda 3 car coming out had a touch screen but it turns that feature off when the car is in motion, I think that’s a good idea others should follow.
    Audi and Range Rover need to use these ideas as the new A8 and Velour or however you pronounce it, have big touchscreens to control everything, and journalists who have reviewed them said they are distracting to use, I believe they have voice controls so perhaps disabling the touch screens and using those voice controls when driving is better?
    Physical buttons are still beat in a car, it they don’t want to use them anymore? Even the steering wheel controls are now touch driven! Just stick a physical button there! So you know you’ve pressed it.

    My point being car manufactures seem to be doing more to distract you and not less, and if you crash and are seen to be distracted by them I believe he law can prosecute you even if you were changing your air con settings.
     
  24. bingeciren, Dec 21, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018

    bingeciren macrumors 6502a

    bingeciren

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    #200
    The way it looks, we are going to need two people to drive a car; a driver and a co-driver, just like in rallies. One to drive, the other to adjust the air-con, play with the radio, answer the phone, navigate and warn the driver for blind spots.
     

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