Apple Further Refutes Bloomberg Report Suggesting Chinese Spies Tampered With iCloud Servers

[himanshumodi]

This article has gone massively viral. If you have read it, its extremely sensationalist. The report does not clarify several gaps in the investigation that are obvious when you go through it. Unless Supermicro itself is state sponsored (which is not a claim the report makes), they should immediately spot a random chip on one of the motherboards they designed. How did they miss that? Then the report does something that messes up the base OS? How exactly would it do that. It gives a rather simplistic example of the system not asking a password to unlock stuff... even if the chip could do that, that's hardly the only security that a computing system has. The report also states that the chip makes the servers send data to remote machines over internet! How would you get past the perimeter security?

I don't bite this investigation for now. Not that I am denying corporates and governments are keen on having mechanisms to spy on comptitors, peers and enemies... but this is not how they'd go about it.

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

Are we at the Pantomine season yet?
"He's behind you!"
"Oh no he isn't"
"Oh yes he is!"

Stop trying to hit me and HIT ME!

 

[diddl14]

Now at least the hardware protection of the Pro Series starts making sense. True or not, it’s clear that Apple would do anything in trying to prevent such scenario from happening with their products.

 

[fairuz]

So because of President Trump everyone on earth has turned into liars?

Well, the media has definitely gotten worse. Even as someone who's against Trump, it's easy to spot when they're going after him with out-of-context quotes, misleading headlines, and agendas hidden in comedy shows. IMO it's the worst strategy and part of how he got elected. Not that this necessarily has to do with Trump, but it shows that they can succumb to other priorities.
[doublepost=1538722001][/doublepost]

So.. Do people really think that Bloomberg would be dumb enough to publish an article taking on the two most powerful and valuable companies, along with the Chinese government without credible sources?

The great length by both companies to deny this shows it really got under their skin.. So either Bloomberg is poking a wound or it's really fake news. Somewhere in the middle though, is the truth.

I don't see why they'd be afraid. Amazon and Apple fighting back with non-preferential treatment on their platforms? It's hard to do that in secret. And Bloomberg gets plenty of clicks this way.

 

[bob24]

Did anyone actually expect Apple and Amazon who stand to lose lots actually say "yep, our servers were hacked"?

Nobody really knows if this is true or not but it sure makes for good stories.

You need to understand that there is a whole lot of things they could have done between vehemently saying Bloomberg is completely incorrect (as they are doing) and saying “yep, our servers were hacked” which you suggest as the only alternative.

The very clear statements these companies have made would not be in their interest if they know something had indeed happened and Bloomberg might have anything to back up their allegation.

 

[Bonte]

All we need now is for both these countries to be led by man-babies. Oh, wait...

As if journalists are in the pocket of trump, it's just the opposite.

Every large publication has ex-CIA people with security clearance working for them, the so-called sources familiar with the matter. So everything on MSM has to be questioned, a sad state of affairs.
[doublepost=1538723295][/doublepost]

Well, the media has definitely gotten worse. Even as someone who's against Trump, it's easy to spot when they're going after him with out-of-context quotes, misleading headlines, and agendas hidden in comedy shows. IMO it's the worst strategy and part of how he got elected. Not that this necessarily has to do with Trump, but it shows that they can succumb to other priorities.

True, the sad part is that even smart technical people fell into this trap, like the TWIT podcast network and now Bloomberg. It all has a very 1984 feeling to it with totally controlled media.

 

[ThatGuyInLa]

China has Apple under their thumb. Apple could ditch China, maybe setup up shop in India. This would cost billions. Which they have, but this is the same company that thrives on 200% markup, taking advantage of tax loop-holes, $20 USB cables, ya-know, keeping and making as much money as possible which is a GOOD thing. So I can see their hesitation.

 

[WatchFromAfar]

China has Apple under their thumb. Apple could ditch China, maybe setup up shop in India. This would cost billions. Which they have, but this is the same company that thrives on 200% markup, taking advantage of tax loop-holes, $20 USB cables, ya-know, keeping and making as much money as possible which is a GOOD thing. So I can see their hesitation.

The premise of this story is dumb. "Chinese spies"? Apple stores iCloud data in China any person in an administrative role has access to it; doesn't make them "spies"

 

[VictorTango777]

Considering Apple themselves dropped OUT of their server business and now many software components of macOS server is now Linux apps ... with macOS just last year having left a system wide ROOT admin account to have no password in high Sierra lol I’m inclined to not give Apple a full pass on this no matter how strong their statement is. If Mansfield was fully in charge of hardware including their server division and any of his predecessors of years past yes I would fully believe them. Not now.

I suspect that the vast majority of Apple home users without IT backgrounds still think that Apple's data centers are filled with Mac Minis or trashcan Mac Pros or iMacs running macOS Server. Perhaps the reason Apple is fighting so hard against this report is because those uninformed home users would finally know what the trillion dollar Mac company is really using in their data centers. Maybe Apple considers this revelation more embarrassing than any other security or social/political issue.

 

[AppleMark]

Given the slow disclosure of all companies that get hacked (and often get 'outed'), would a company that has been hacked admit it, if they had the resources to conceal that fact?

Is this possible? Yes.

Is somebody not telling the truth? Yes.

 

[djcerla]

Apple has strong financial incentive to not admit it even if it’s true. There is no situation where Apple and Amazon would publicly admit to being compromised by China even if a breach did happen.

As such, why is anyone taking Apple’s word at face value? There the least reliable ones to ask in this situation.
[doublepost=1538695261][/doublepost]
Lmao, you just randomly believe everything a business tells you, just because? Are you serious? Even if true you do realize there is no situation where Apple would actually admit something like this right? It is helpful to employ critical thinking before commenting on these things.

According to the time table of the events, as narrated by Bloomberg, Apple has continued to use compromised servers for eight months after reporting to the FBI.

This makes no sense. And why Apple and Amazon denied so vehemently, in no uncertain terms, leaving no way out for themseves in case an investigation (that will surely happen) would confirm Bloomberg’s story?

That’s because the story is a fuming pile of bull. But keep believing in what makes you feel warm.

 

[[AUT] Thomas]

From a technical view, this story make zero sense.

1. How would this chip receive power without obvious PCB traces?

2. If thousands of servers were affected, everyone from Apple to Amazon, wouldn't we have seen photographic evidence of this chip? Or more whistle blowers?

3. How come the U.S. government and military continue to use and procure Super Micro servers?

4. If an adversary wanted to do a hack, they would modify the baseband management controller directly by spinning a new stepping with additional logic. Super Micro controls the BMC design. Just like Apple controls the A12 design.

This. Especially #2. Also, I'm not sure how SM does QA, but the fear of spying chips in motherboards isn't new. I'd expect at least a visual comparison of the board to be standard procedure especially for military supply. I mean, using a reference PCB picture, overlay with sample. That chip should pop up instantly. Takes 5 minutes with the proper equipment and skills, i.e. decent camera and PhotoShop.
What's a lot more tricky is, in-die modifications, but that's also a lot more difficult to achieve, especially in some high density 7nm SoC.

Frankly, I'd be a lot more concerned about intels management engine, UEFI hacks, compromised drivers,...

 

[AmazingRobie]

Does anyone else feel that this China espionage chip story and the Trump administrations BS notification system both happened in relatively close proximity to one another? More Red Scare propaganda?

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." ~ Orwell

 

[WatchFromAfar]

Can nobody see the distraction here? Apple in bed with China look over here ohh look at the new emoji

 

[Porco]

The only logical thing to do at this point is trust no-one.

But don’t take my word for it.

 

[djcerla]

The only logical thing to do at this point is trust no-one.

But don’t take my word for it.

Sir, one internet cookie for you.

 

[profets]

You randomly believe everything the media tells you, just because? Are you serious?

Apple could have given a generic press statement. But they didn’t. They decided to specifically call out Bloomberg. They called them out on specific details, even stating they have the email/communication trails to prove it. Do you really think Bloomberg lnows more than Apple or the FBI? It is helpful to employ critical thinking before commenting on these things.

Exactly what I’m thinking. Apple is calling them out and mentioning a lot of specifics. And multiple times the same day, even responding to allegations that they’re under a gag order.

I can’t recall Apple every being so certain and insistent on something. Usually PR will be a bit ambiguous, but they’ve left no wiggle room for themselves.

Apple (and Amazon) have a lot more to lose if they’re lying as opposed to Bloomberg. Also Bloomberg mentioned so much in the article but left out so many details that they supposedly have.
[doublepost=1538737161][/doublepost]

Methinks they doth protest too much.
[doublepost=1538719618][/doublepost]
Indeed, critical thinking is helpful. As in, assuming that Apple wouldn't lie just because you like their products.

Protest? they’re flat out refuting claims and offering a lot of details around it. When’s the last time they’ve done this? Usually they’re partly ambiguous with PR statements or avoid putting out specifics. Why would they leave themselves so little wiggle room? And multiple times in a day responding very strongly to the allegations.

 

[threesixty360]

The question for me is always "who watches the watchmen?"

The reality is we've seen hit jobs before on Apple etc.. The NYTimes did that whole article on poor working conditions in Apple factories. Some of it was true, yet alot was sensationalized. Journalists do this all the time. Because ultimately they want to make a name for themselves so "reporting facts" becomes "telling a great story". Every great story omits and adds things to make it compelling. I dont consider journalists to be any different to movie directors or songwriters in that regard. They embellish a lot.

The thing is, as others have pointed out, without access to their sources and their interview notes it's impossible for these articles to be completely refuted. The press have a buffer. They are reporting what someone is saying rather than they are reporting what they believe. Its a very important distinction. Thats what allows journalists to publish lots of things without fear of libel.

The downside for Apple is that if a representative of the company or Apple themselves lie to the public its a very legal situation for them. Look at what happened to Elon Musk! I think it would be unprecedented for both Apple and Amazon to respond so ferociously if they were both lying. Even with Federal protection it would be stock market crippling for them to have been caught blatantly lying about this.

My bet is that there is a bit of truth to some statements and it has been twisted by the sources to present to Bloomberg are more compelling story. And I think that if it were all completely true there wouldn't be so many inconsistencies that both Apple and Amazon have pointed out.

Ultimately a win for Bloomberg in terms of clicks and dough. And an annoyance for the companies concerned.

 

[RightMACatU]

This news and post responses wreaks of Russian and Chinese propaganda and you'll have be sucked in believing in unicorns.

 

[kemal]

I’m deleting Bloomberg apps from my phone. Lost trust in their reporting.

 

[Tech198]

For a company who chooses to ignore the media, they sure arn't doing much of that when it really hurts them.

I'd just ignore Bloomberg's reporting if it were me.... Apple knows what it does, and if there is no evidence to prove otherwise, its often fake.

Just "news" to stir the pot.. This reporting is just 'preying on the good'

 

[cmaier]

For a company who chooses to ignore the media, they sure arn't doing much of that when it really hurts them.

I'd just ignore Bloomberg's reporting if it were me.... Apple knows what it does, and if there is no evidence to prove otherwise, its often fake.

Just "news" to stir the pot.. This reporting is just 'preying on the good'

Silence would just stoke the conspiracy theories.

 

[5232152]

I don’t blame them for standing by their word. Bloomberg is huge, as is its audience, and this could result in major public opinion setbacks. Shame on Bloomberg.

They need shocking stories to keep afloat. If the editor did a poor job in their investigative journaling, regardless of authenticity and (lack of) proof, it goes to show you how powerful media snakes can be. The line between conspiracy theory and actual events are becoming blurred.

Lies. Lying on paid media has consequences if it cannot be backed up. So they sure have their sources (13 actually) come from somewhere. Surely not Chinese govermental propaganda.
Apple and Amazon has a serious issue here. We know absolutely nothing of Apples infrastructure - so there is nothing saying if this was actually done or not. The government should get involved already.

 

[A MacBook lover]

Lies. Lying on paid media has consequences if it cannot be backed up. So they sure have their sources (13 actually) come from somewhere. Surely not Chinese govermental propaganda.
Apple and Amazon has a serious issue here. We know absolutely nothing of Apples infrastructure - so there is nothing saying if this was actually done or not. The government should get involved already.

You mean like when Newsweek claimed it found the creator of Bitcoin, when really the whole report was a lie. Or maybe when CNN lied about a Russia story and ended up firing 3 editors?

The media seems to have a great track record.

 

[Mechinyun]

People. Please.

Use your brain. I am not saying Bloomberg is right or apple/amazon.

But Apple and Amazon have a TON to lose by admitting to this. Stock prices, public perception - the list goes on.

Apple cares about Apple. There is definitely way more to this story that any of us know.

Do not blindly side with one or the other based on your love for a brand or its products. (same applies to politics)