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Apple Geniuses are reportedly unbricking iPhones

one1

one1

macrumors 65816
Jun 17, 2007
1,168
28
Chattanooga, TN
This has to do with the "moss" debacle. Apple is treading a very thin line on bricking over an unlock and I think they are realizing the backlash is coming. Seems like they just might have to do this to keep the class action from coming as doing this brick lock violates federal law in regards to the moss law.
 
odHbo

odHbo

macrumors regular
Jun 5, 2007
153
227
Ugh, Stupid people....

Apple is a very generous company. I'll tell you that. :rolleyes:
 
J

jt2ga65

macrumors regular
Jul 1, 2007
197
0
Moss law? Only I see from searching for that is referenced to the federal lemon law for cars. You have more of a reference? I'd love to be more informed.

-jt2
 
Canuck4

Canuck4

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2007
580
0
Seems like more work for Apple.
They'll probably have the same people every few days trying to hack their iphones and keep going back to have them unbricked.
 
J

jt2ga65

macrumors regular
Jul 1, 2007
197
0
Ah, so it is the same law. I didn't realize that the Magnuson-Moss lemon law covered more than just the auto industry. Lots of reading, looks like.

Thanks for the link.

-jt2
 
one1

one1

macrumors 65816
Jun 17, 2007
1,168
28
Chattanooga, TN
It's only a few paragraphs and it goes quick. The info in it is invaluable to determine why they are unbricking phones secretly. "we may need to do this, but we do not have to advertise it as of yet"
 
Lionheart

Lionheart

macrumors regular
Jun 29, 2007
171
0
Tampa, FL
So, somebody needs to kidnap/bribe an Apple Store employee and find out how they are able to do this. Secret keypress, special software, iUnBricker machine or ???
:rolleyes:
 
GavinTing

GavinTing

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2007
266
0
Singapore!
This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.
 
Daremo

Daremo

macrumors 68020
Jul 3, 2007
2,176
307
Chicago
What angers me more then anything about this, is it ties up the Genius Bar and people with actual tech issues that were not SELF INFLICTED are forced to wait, sometimes for many hours to get help. Now it will become worse, with people lining up to get their broken phones fixed.
 
Canuck4

Canuck4

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2007
580
0
They probably have a master restore file that they just run on the iphone thru USB. And what it does is it fully recovers an iphone to its original state when first bought.
That would definetelly help if it gets leaked on the net :)


Lionheart said:
So, somebody needs to kidnap/bribe an Apple Store employee and find out how they are able to do this. Secret keypress, special software, iUnBricker machine or ???
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
S

spacepower7

macrumors 68000
May 6, 2004
1,509
1
hmm

The real question is how many lawsuits will be filed by 5pm Pacific time tomorrow.

Apple will have to prove why they needed to alter the modem firmware. If you unlock your phone (which is legal except to the Apple/ATT drones above) then restore to firmware 1.0.2 the unlock remains intact. Apple is going to have to prove technical improvements made by altering the modem firmware. They are going to have to open their trade secrets in court.

Apple should have ignored the less than 5% of unlocked phones and updated the iPhone without affecting unlocked ones.

In the long run, this is going to affect Apples revenue and reputation.

Apple is the new M$
Greed is good
Consumer (legal) rights are better.
 
Canuck4

Canuck4

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2007
580
0
Did they do it on purpose though to brick phones or once the phone is hacked and you try to update it it messes it up?
You gotta remember that apple doesnt have to provide updates that will work with available hacked software. They put out an update and if it messes up hacked iphones then it shouldnt be their problem.
But they should release a full recovery utility that would restore everything on the iphone to its original state. So this will get rid of all those bricked owners complains or genius repairs.
All they gotta do is plug in and do it at home.
 
S

spacepower7

macrumors 68000
May 6, 2004
1,509
1
ouch

GavinTing said:
This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.
Click to expand...

I am not one that ever makes personal attacks but this is the stupidest thing I have heard this week.

Fair in business terms?
What about consumer rights?
 
M

mattster16

macrumors 6502a
Apr 18, 2004
743
489
Apple will get sued over this, but they won't lose. Yes, it is legal to unlock your phone, but it is also legal to stipulate in the purchase agreement that a subscription to a certain provider is needed to use full functionality of the product. Sort of like TIVO. They also provided a disclaimer before you update that if your phone is unlocked that it may permanently damage the product.

If you knowingly bypassed a contractual obligation by unlocking your phone, what right do you have to claim Apple is causing you damages? Your phone only worked because you broke the contract in the first place..

I'm all for an open phone market and wish any phone could be used with any carrier, but that isn't how it works. Yes there are unlocking laws, but there are loopholes as well and Apple is using one. It sucks, but you can't break a purchase agreement and then whine when you face some kind of consequence.

Apple is not going downhill and turning into "M$". Apple is and always has been a corporation with a board of directors and shareholders. They are here to make money and they do so while making very nice products. Apple is protecting their interests and their revenue streams so that they can continue to make the things everyone buys. Anyone disappointed that "Apple is becoming greedy" only feels that way because they wrongly idealized Apple as the holy grail of corporate honesty and goodness in the first place.

All that said I do not agree with a closed cell phone market (but it does allow close integration and services) and I do not agree with many corporate practices infringing on consumer freedom. I'm just telling it like it is.
 
Lionheart

Lionheart

macrumors regular
Jun 29, 2007
171
0
Tampa, FL
GavinTing said:
This is will I hate American law. What apple is doing is perfectly fair in business terms. It is also perfectly fair from any perspective you look at it.

Just to avoid getting sued, they have to do secretly unlock phones. Terrible.
Click to expand...

They are not unlocking phones, they are restoring them to original condition...something any purchaser of an iPhone should be able to do at any time, just like every other computer you purchase. Hopefully they'll see the light and release just such a tool.

Methinks the cat just bit himself in the arse...
 
A

ashVID

macrumors regular
Jun 30, 2007
239
0
I dont have the time to dig thru all the thread but you all seem to be missing one thing. Apple doesnt care if you unlock your phone, ATT does! Apple signed an exclusive with them and they are likely required some sort of "due diligence" to make sure it remains an ATT exclusive. Apple cannot support unlocking! If they WANTED to brick phones, they would have not released a warning!

All that said, if you bricked your $400 playing hacker then boo friggin hoo. Shut up about lawsuits and undo the mess YOU created. How can Apple or any company be held responsible for supporting 3rd party hacked applications?



ash =o)
 
H

HiddenWolf

macrumors newbie
Jun 9, 2007
8
0
ashVID said:
I dont have the time to dig thru all the thread but you all seem to be missing one thing. Apple doesnt care if you unlock your phone, ATT does! Apple signed an exclusive with them and they are likely required some sort of "due diligence" to make sure it remains an ATT exclusive. Apple cannot support unlocking! If they WANTED to brick phones, they would have not released a warning!

All that said, if you bricked your $400 playing hacker then boo friggin hoo. Shut up about lawsuits and undo the mess YOU created. How can Apple or any company be held responsible for supporting 3rd party hacked applications?



ash =o)
Click to expand...

Apple cares for several reasons:
- It is not osX (their IP) getting hacked, but the firmware, which is the software most closely tied to the hardware, and which is NOT their IP. They've licenced this and are probably obligated to keep the licensor's trade secrets in the face of massive hacking.
- Hacking makes it easier for competitors to take the iphone apart and study how it's done.
- They have contractual obligations to AT&T
- Apple is about control, about control of the consumer experience. They've always done this to make sure the experience is positive. Hacked phones becoming unstable isn't positive.
- If you willingly break a contract they have no obligation to uphold their end of the bargain.
 
bigandy

bigandy

macrumors G3
Apr 30, 2004
8,852
7
Murka
one1 said:
This has to do with the "moss" debacle. Apple is treading a very thin line on bricking over an unlock and I think they are realizing the backlash is coming. Seems like they just might have to do this to keep the class action from coming as doing this brick lock violates federal law in regards to the moss law.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but WTF?

How on earth can a class action lawsuit be coming?

Legally, Apple have doing nothing wrong. Customers with 'bricked' phones have purposefully and knowingly broken their license agreement by installing software or hacking their phone, which Apple clearly state that doing so will invalidate the warranty.

And what on earth posesses people over in the US to talk about bringing a lawsuit every damn time they get a little bit hissy that something's unfair?


This just irritates me, completely. How you can expect to break the license agreement and invalidate your warranty and still expect something to be done is beyond me.


If you installed a set of wheels on your car that made the axles bend out of shape, would you take the car back to the manufacturer and demand they replace them? You sure as hell wouldn't, because it's not covered by the limited warranty as they are commonly called. Same thing.
 
F

fradac

macrumors regular
Oct 24, 2003
127
0
Atlanta, GA
so now can anyone tell me if i can really get some help? i never intended to use a non AT&T sim, but just out of curiosity tried the unlock software once.

and needless to say after the firmware update last night, my phone doesn't work with my AT&T sim. can someone confirm that i can bring my phone to apple genius and they will fix it? i can't be without my phone for to long.
 
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