Apple Halted M2 Chip Production in January Amid 'Plummeting' Mac Sales

[Tagbert]

Be a terrible and frustrating experience to do so.

M2 chip and 8GB RAM MBA couldn’t even handle exporting some photos from the Photos library to desktop.

Hate to imagine how angry editing 4K on it would have been.

That is not an accurate representation of using one of the base model machines. They do fine for many tasks that people commonly do including working with Photos. If you are doing Photoshop work, large amounts of video editing, or development of course you would be better served with more RAM. If you do a lot of multi-tasking or running VMs, get more RAM. A lot of people don’t do that and don’t need to spend more money on it.

 

[mi7chy]

Guess I'm not the only one that doesn't fall for sidegrade.

 

[Alex Cai]

the reasons why PC still dominates the market is because of it’s price
3060+i7-12700H PC is around $800 with profound hardware, while a higher priced MacBook Air 13 and MacBook Pro 14 is much slower despite of it’s battery, display, aluminum case, macOS, thinness, lightness, elegance, Apple Logo, fantastic trackpad, better keyboard.

So I’m looking forward for Apple to consider price and performance.
Macbook(SE) for $599
MacBook Pro needs to be overclocked so that they can take advantage of Apple Sililcon’s efficiency.

 

[bobcomer]

the reasons why PC still dominates the market is because of it’s price
3060+i7-12700H PC is around $800 with profound hardware, while a higher priced MacBook Air 13 and MacBook Pro 14 is much slower despite of it’s battery, display, aluminum case, macOS, thinness, lightness, elegance, Apple Logo, fantastic trackpad, better keyboard.

That's part of it, yes, but available and software already in the market is the main reason PC's still dominate the market.

You guys talk about aluminum as good, I can't stand it myself, too heavy. Even the MBA should be at least a half pound less to be the right weight for the class. (ultralights)

 

[UK-MacAddict]

That is not an accurate representation of using one of the base model machines. They do fine for many tasks that people commonly do including working with Photos. If you are doing Photoshop work, large amounts of video editing, or development of course you would be better served with more RAM. If you do a lot of multi-tasking or running VMs, get more RAM. A lot of people don’t do that and don’t need to spend more money on it.

I’m not talking photo or video editing.

I was simply importing photos from my phone to the Photos app. Then I exported them from my Photos App library to a folder on my desktop.

No editing, just a simple files transfer and this taxed the system to the point it beachballed and froze.

As I said before the whole system felt sluggish in general use. It couldn’t even handle opening multiple apps whilst it was exporting those photos.

 

[Ethosik]

I’m not talking photo or video editing.

I was simply importing photos from my phone to the Photos app. Then I exported them from my Photos App library to a folder on my desktop.

No editing, just a simple files transfer and this taxed the system to the point it beachballed and froze.

As I said before the whole system felt sluggish in general use. It couldn’t even handle opening multiple apps whilst it was exporting those photos.

I don’t know what to tell you. I have been able to do that on even my old Intel Mac Mini with 8GB of RAM. Heck my 2010 Mac Pro only has 8 GB of RAM on it and it can do a simple task like that just fine. Importing from your phone doesn’t use up 8GB or more RAM.

 

[BrightDarkSky]

Me too!!!

Yeah, I bought one, Studio Max, 64G RAM, 2TB SSD. Ouch I say now. And all I'm doing with it is it's handling some server like duties and Windows on Arm testing. Monitor support sucks if you don't buy the Apple monitor, and I'm one of the "lucky" ones with the whine.

I missed the x86 VM's, so I went and bought a refurbed iMac 5K, added RAM to it, and am ever so much happier now.

I'd probably replace the Studio with a 14" M1 Max MBP if I could trade in the studio for enough money. I wish the notch weren't there, but at least I can set the screen to cut off that part so I wont see it.

dont trade it to apple..its probably worth 100 bucks to them.

everything is an ipad to them now...sell it for exorbinant prices, but its actual value to them is like 100x less

 

[bobcomer]

dont trade it to apple..its probably worth 100 bucks to them.

everything is an ipad to them now...sell it for exorbinant prices, but its actual value to them is like 100x less

Yeah, I've noticed lately that trade in values aren't so good with Apple. It's so much easier though. I'll have to wait and see I guess...

edit: and I even forgot the amount of SSD it had, only 1TB, not 2, so it's even worth less.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

I don’t know what to tell you. I have been able to do that on even my old Intel Mac Mini with 8GB of RAM. Heck my 2010 Mac Pro only has 8 GB of RAM on it and it can do a simple task like that just fine. Importing from your phone doesn’t use up 8GB or more RAM.

It was the exporting that killed it. It was a mix of photos and videos being exported.

 

[Tagbert]

I’m not talking photo or video editing.

I was simply importing photos from my phone to the Photos app. Then I exported them from my Photos App library to a folder on my desktop.

No editing, just a simple files transfer and this taxed the system to the point it beachballed and froze.

As I said before the whole system felt sluggish in general use. It couldn’t even handle opening multiple apps whilst it was exporting those photos.

Then there is something else going wrong on your system. That is not a normal experience even on the lowest spec Mac. Were you exporting a very large number of photos at once? That might saturate some parts of the system.

 

[UK-MacAddict]

Then there is something else going wrong on your system. That is not a normal experience even on the lowest spec Mac. Were you exporting a very large number of photos at once? That might saturate some parts of the system.

Yes I was exporting a large number of photos and videos. Videos were no more than a few minutes each but were filmed in 4K.

 

[Tagbert]

Yes I was exporting a large number of photos and videos. Videos were no more than a few minutes each but were filmed in 4K.

That doesn't seem like a normal, day to day operation. Is that something you do a lot of of? Then maybe you need a more powerful system. I suspect that some system was bottle-necked and limiting performance. Photos may have saturated the cores trying to process so many photos and videos at once.

That doesn't seem like a good metric to use to evaluate how well a base model Mac would do in typical usage.

 

[enb141]

You'd be hard pressed to get a decent premium laptop for £1000 even if it was running Microsoft software.

Macs do compare well with premium laptops in price; hence Microsoft's Surface products are almost copies of the Macs, but hobbled by the awful Windows experience.

The other thing about Macs is they tend to last a long time.

Well alienware, which are expensive, seem to be way way way cheaper than macs.

 

[enb141]

1TB SSD with 16GB RAM. This should be the standard starting point across every single Mac line.

At least 16 GB / 512 SSD, right now that cost $400 in apple taxes.

 

[enb141]

Apple can offer nothing to compete on the GPU front in any Mac with Nvidia 4000 series GPU's.

Yep, neither AMD, their drivers suck by far in comparison with Nvidia's.

 

[enb141]

Apple is reaching a tipping point with regards to nickel and diming customer for the slightest configuration upgrades.

People are starting to ask do I need to spend $1,200 on an entry level Apple or would a $500 Windows system work for me.

And while Apple Silicon is fast and energy efficient it is becoming more of an appliance than a computer with no upgrade path and limited support by third party software and OSs

With Intel based Macs VirtualBox, VMware and even bare metal third party OS installs are easy not so much on Silicon.

The migration from power pc to intel was a success because macs allowed people to run pretty much everything (Windows, Linux, Virtual or native), now that's gone, I don't think apple can catch intel/amd or even Qualcomm in the near future.

 

[enb141]

I was looking to buy a M2 mini, but the price of NAND and DRAM upgrades are shocking. Good value base machine at £649, However that comes with 8G of RAM and 256GB (really) SSD. This makes good headline prices, but really you'd want at least 16G of RAM and at minimum of 1TB SSD for any sort of longevity ..... and that almost doubles the cost. With memory prices in the tank, Apple are fleecing us.

A 2TB SSD is charged at £800 - you can buy a crucial 2TB external SSD for £100 - and that uses Micron NAND, so is not in anyway inferior.

Actually almost triples it, from 8 GB to 16 GB RAM is $180, from 256 GB to 512 GB is $200 and fro 256 GB to 1TB is $380 so a decent mac mini would cost you $1059 up from $500 plus tax so about from ~ $550 (8/256) to ~ $1150 (16/1000)

 

[enb141]

I think it was on Unbox Therapy where the guys were talking about what people are looking for in a slow economy, and that's value for money. Performance-wise, the Air can do most tasks outside of demanding Pro workflows. Even if folks do some creative projects every now and then, the Air is enough - and in some ways that competitive advantage of Apple Silicon is a shot to the foot, most folks just don't need a MacBook Pro anymore.

One thing I will say, is the loss of Bootcamp, coupled with growing interest in gaming on PC - even doing a build - I think this time around Mac folks are actually looking at the PC as a 'Pro' purchase - or at least, that's where that money is going, because the Mac can no longer scratch that itch for tinkerers and folks who like to dual boot. A lot of Mac users have become used to being able to dual boot for what feels like decades.

I know for me that's the case - the Air is a fantastic everyday laptop, great plugged into a screen and covers a lot of bases, but for gaming & other Pro workflows, for hobbiest computing, it's not hard to be looking elsewhere.

Mac Silicon will be like old Power PC, you were stuck to one operating system, now you are again, so for those that used doble boot, that's now a choice anymore, unless you virtualize windows ARM.

 

[enb141]

Adobe isn’t the greatest on Windows either. After Effects and Premiere Pro failed to work on my AMD 5700xt graphics card. Other users reported the same problem. It just crashed on startup on the apps.

Welcome to the world of AMD, AMD's software sucks, period, I have more issues with AMD than intel/Nvidia.

 

[enb141]

Maybe Apple is going back to their model category of higher tier systems instead of “a computer in every home” Microsoft. The hint was the luxurious watch mentality.

Apple becomes high end purchases. If you want it, either pay for it or go with lesser PC offerings. Some don’t want cheap technology, but decent quality and will pay for it.

Apple does not need to cheapen their products so many many buyers or allowed to buy or an everyone social mentality…they are a business in it to make money. PCs are for those that want general economy prices technology.

Apple..Continue with quality that lasts. Do they always do this? No..but generally “Yes”. I have EVERY Apple product I have ever bought going way back and it still works, still can be used even today if desired. The many PCs I have had…No..the only one I still have is a Sony Vaio laptop when Sony owned the brand…great Laptops too at the time.

I went to a few computer stores recently and checked out the PCs and quality compared to Apple. Most that come close to Apple are the same price or more expensive, but even then the PCs don’t compare to the quality of Apple. Microsoft’s actual offerings are the same price and more for their laptops.

I think Apple prices are a bit too high..but reviewing equivalent PCs, Apple is still in the price range (generally) of quality PCs. PCs just offer cheaper options that you will get rid of in three years. Apple’s offerings can last longer if you choose (not talking about the OS, just the hardware).

Saying that PCs are bad quality is misleading, you can get a far way better PC than a mac, of course there's junk PCs out there, but you can also choose a PC that smokes apple in any possible way, specially if you build your own PC.

The difference between PCs and macs is that you can choose, with mac you are limited to what they offer.

 

[enb141]

For those who need full Windows, the next computer purchase may be “must” (Windows PC) vs. “want” (Mac).

I happen to be in the good position to choose “both” but not everyone can. The end of bootcamp may force the move back to PC for some. Windows ARM is OK but some need full Windows compatibility. Their next purchase may already be decided for them.

Still you can't dual boot mac and windows, and probable not even Linux on new macs, so for now and the future, if you want windows you are gonna need another computer or use a windows PC on the cloud.

 

[enb141]

The M2 MBP update improved on performance as well as battery life, at least for the higher configs that don't have the worse SSD, so it's by no means a bad update, but with M1 MBP sales over the last couple months anyone who was still on the fence probably switched to a M1 device already. The refurb store M1 pricing was great after M2 release as well.

So who is supposed to buy all these M2 devices when they have to compete with Apple's own M1 chip that's good enough for most people? The newly designed M1 MBPs were released less than 2 years ago, so anyone who switched to these would have to throw out their perfectly good M1 Pro or M1 Max machine in order to buy a new M2 one. That would be a ridiculous expectation.

For example, my M1 Max device is still under AC+, what is the incentive for me to sell it at a loss and get the M2 version? Ok the newer XDR screens have less ghosting, but that's it for me.


You can now officially run X86_64 Windows software through Parallels for business use. If that's not enough for your business then Apple doesn't care about the lost sales. And you aren't doing your users a favor when they need to use Windows and are forced to do it through horrible Bootcamp. Legacy boot, Windows updates that can brick the install, bad Apple Windows drivers that make the trackpad tedious to use and decrease battery runtime, more fan noise, no official support from anyone in case of issues (Apple doesn't care, and neither does Microsoft) and so on. I have always recommended against purchasing Macs when Windows is needed.

At least now you can run it officially supported for limited workflows through Parallels without resorting to interruptive dual-boot with crappy hardware drivers. In fact I think killing off Bootcamp was one of the best decisions Apple could have made. In the same price regions as MBPs your users will be just as happy with a Thinkpad Carbon X1 for sure.

Try to do that with 8 GB/256 SSD base macs that a lot of people here says that configuration is enough for most people.

Now days is cheaper and easier to have one mac and one PC instead of trying to run windows within mac.

 

[enb141]

Buggy software, too many version incompatibilities for applications recently, no x86 emulation solution to run non-MacOS VMs, no boot camp, lack of user upgrades…is what’s probably not helping.

I think they underestimated how many people were onboard for the dual boot/VM options. That was the only thing that contributed to the explosion of growth when Intel Macs showed up. It’s still relevant today. I can’t buy Macs for staff anymore because of it. Our workflow occasionally calls for legacy or Windows x86 apps. That’s about 50 Macs sales lost this year . I bet that number elsewhere add up to a significant number.

Not to mention the OS is a mess. There are so many pointless changes and bugs. It’s hard to really say MacOS is any better than Windows. Apple needs to work on software a bit more. They used to shine there.

Macs were never intended to be used for running windows, now they are back to their roots.

 

[mdatwood]

but you can also choose a PC that smokes apple in any possible way, specially if you build your own PC.

Except in battery life and track pad performance. Maybe also the screen. I'm not sure there's anything out there better than the current MBP screens.

 

[ignatius345]

I don't think it's bad we have super low specced models for people who don't want to spend as much, they still function fine for people who don't push them too hard. I could also sell my machine and just buy a better specced used one if it was a big problem.

Agreed. My wife is a pretty perfect "average user" for whom 8/256 is a totally usable configuration. She uses the web, Zoom, Spotify, Photos and occasional stuff like dealing with Word docs or PDFs. She's absolutely fine with her M1 Air and I bet she'll be using it for a few more years easily unless it breaks or something. She wouldn't know or give a rat's ass about "memory pressure" or "swap space" as long as her Mac keeps working smoothly for her, which it absolutely does.