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It is not just India. In Japan, one of the wealthiest countries, Apple had to lower the prices as well.

So who is wrong the many countries, or Apple trying to sell way overpriced iPhones?

In 2 years Apple raise almost 100% the prices of the iPhones, when price sin technology with time actually become cheaper.
Old tech is always cheaper. New tech, not so much. Yes, apple increased the price of phones with the increase in tech in it's phones. They did not just raise the price as in last year one payed $3 for a dozen eggs and the same dozen eggs are now $4.

It is NOT android. It is the price!
When you raise the price of iphone 100% in the last 3 years, something is wrong. Especially, when technology actually becomes cheaper.
It is ricidulous that a phone cost the same or more than a laptop.

Tim Cook excuses that are combining cameras, etc, is quite lame for being the CEO of Apple.
It's of course up to the purchaser to decide if the value/price equation is worth it.
 
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Most companies are not actually trying to be Apple. Most companies want to push more units at the cost of margin.

They aren’t Apple because they can’t (emulate Apple’s business model), not because their CEO woke up one morning and decided they would sell cheap smartphones out of the kindness of their hearts.

Just ask them - would they rather have Apple’s profits or Android’s market share?

Apple gets to dictate the prices of their products because they are able to sufficiently differentiate their hardware with custom software. But when you are a commodity smartphone OEM shipping someone else’s OS, you can really only compete on price.

That’s just the reality of a market where Apple takes on over 80% of the profits, and everyone else is fighting tooth and nail for table scraps.

Apple’s business model of selling differentiated hardware at a premium means that they won’t be able to serve everyone (as evidenced by their market share), and I feel that’s perfectly all right.
 
They aren’t Apple because they can’t (emulate Apple’s business model), not because their CEO woke up one morning and decided they would sell cheap smartphones out of the kindness of their hearts.

Just ask them - would they rather have Apple’s profits or Android’s market share?

Apple gets to dictate the prices of their products because they are able to sufficiently differentiate their hardware with custom software. But when you are a commodity smartphone OEM shipping someone else’s OS, you can really only compete on price.

That’s just the reality of a market where Apple takes on over 80% of the profits, and everyone else is fighting tooth and nail for table scraps.

Apple’s business model of selling differentiated hardware at a premium means that they won’t be able to serve everyone (as evidenced by their market share), and I feel that’s perfectly all right.

I find it sad that you think every CEO would push for Apple's obnoxious profit margins.
 
When you do it the way Apple has chosen, your always gonna get some countries left out. If the price is already too high for Indians *before* Apple has had a chance, Indians will be bowled over thanks to Apple :p
 
I find it sad that you think every CEO would push for Apple's obnoxious profit margins.
I find it naive you don’t.

I work at a Fortune 15 company and I know how these guys think. Point blank. I know them personally.

Business IS ALL about money.
 
Lot of people in India can afford iphones. Statistics pulled out of tax data do not reflect real income of indians.

Apple prices in India are higher than european prices. So I will probably buy (to escape google) when I am in europe in summer.

There are no apple stores in India and this probably pushes up prices. Service will not be good. This is blamed on govt. rules, but they cannot change them just for apple. I think free markets are good but it is not really free, every country puts barriers/subsidies. So I wouldn't want Indian govt to relax rules for Apple. A phone is not so important, and we have plenty of other options and Indians are not really suffering because they cannot buy iphones.

Threads like this are very useful to increase my ignore list. Thanks to all for your help.
 
My last Android Phone costed me about $80 - it has 3GB of RAM, 8 Cores, Dual SIM Cards, SD Card Slot, 32Gb ROM, 6 Inch Screen and a replaceable 4000 Mah battery - apart from the camera it's higher spec than most iPhones that have come out in recent years
 
I bought iPhone X this year, maxed out model, but seriously, I think I'm going to use it until it stops getting iOS upgrades. I can't just be giving Apple money like this every two years.
 
So that's why the CEO of Xiaomi said they were good at 5%, right?

He knows his target market, and xiaomi’s business model is to monetise via accessories and services.

See what the companies do, not what they say. No one is going to start a business and be content with only break-even margins.

Even one plus is starting to jack up the prices of their phones. It’s basic business 101. Start with selling cheap phones to quickly build up a loyal user base, then raise prices one growth stagnates to monetise this group of consumers. It was apparent right from the start that their initial business strategy was never going to be sustainable in itself.
 
Apple is veeerrryyy slow to learn that they've priced out anyone upper middle class and below. Some dude isn't going to sell his house or children to buy an iPhone, no matter where they live.
 
Apple is veeerrryyy slow to learn that they've priced out anyone upper middle class and below. Some dude isn't going to sell his house or children to buy an iPhone, no matter where they live.

True story.

My last Android Phone costed me about $80 - it has 3GB of RAM, 8 Cores, Dual SIM Cards, SD Card Slot, 32Gb ROM, 6 Inch Screen and a replaceable 4000 Mah battery - apart from the camera it's higher spec than most iPhones that have come out in recent years

This is something only an Indian would say. :)

Why in shock ? Look at how average Indians work and make money - its the government that can afford the phones, while normal citizens still can't survive.

There are fewer than a million families in India (maybe far fewer in fact) who can afford to buy smartphones worth USD 1000 for every member of their family and then upgrade each year. And you can't expect all of them to actually spend USD 1000 per year per person in the family. Of those who do, Apple has >90% market share already.

A recent report cited Apple India's market share in > $600 smartphones at 72%. So they're selling as many pieces as they can at their current price point. Black market or black money or not, anybody is genuinely well off and wants to buy an iPhone, does buy it most of the time. However, their market share even in the luxury segment is going down as people don't want to buy phones from last year or SE or even XR!

Yes, purchasing power is far higher than illustrated in this thread with hundred's of thousands of families actually being millionaire households in reality. And even taking regular Europe trips and buying expensive stuff. And that isn't reflected in official numbers. But even the reality is far worse than what most Indians are trying to portray in this thread.

No matter what the price, Apple can't really increase their India sales to global numbers. Not even if they halve their prices. And certainly not in the next 10 years.

They shouldn't be chasing marketshare in India. However, manufacturing locally will allow them to decrease the street prices by 20-25% (with a slightly lower margin). And that is all they need to do for India.

Indians are unlikely to buy India specific phones either. But if an iPhone that costs USD 1000 in USA is available for INR 70000 (approx USD 950) in India, that's all that is needed to maybe increase their unit sales by 3-5x and allow it to continue to grow at 20-40% year on year growth.

But nothing else will help. Even if an Indian does own an iPhone, few own any other Apple device. They aren't bothered about the ecosystem or services. Slightly better customer service with Indian manufacturing coupled with slightly reduced margins would be enough to decrease street prices by 20-25% and that is enough to up their unit sales by 3-5x within 12 months!

But that's it. Don't expect anything more regardless of the price point.
 
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Just for comparison, iPhone XR 64 GB($1150) is expensive than Note 9 512 GB!

Note 9 128 GB costs less than $800 but here comes the spoilsport from OnePlus, Huawei, Honor,Pocophone, Xiaom, Vivo, Motorola, Oppo all selling flagships less than $600 !

As far India is concerned Apple doesn't exist in this planet! Very simple!
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At the cost of having to set up manufacturing in India and comply with their draconian laws.

It's no more draconian than China but in vibrant & vocal democracies it is difficult to please everyone.

In China it's all single party hence it is convenient to bend rules!
 
Just for comparison, iPhone XR 64 GB($1150) is expensive than Note 9 512 GB!

Note 9 128 GB costs less than $800 but here comes the spoilsport from OnePlus, Huawei, Honor,Pocophone, Xiaom, Vivo, Motorola, Oppo all selling flagships less than $600 !

As far India is concerned Apple doesn't exist in this planet! Very simple!
[doublepost=1545201778][/doublepost]

It's no more draconian than China but in vibrant & vocal democracies it is difficult to please everyone.

In China it's all single party hence it is convenient to bend rules!

Correct. Flagships from brands like Samsung, OnePlus etc cost USD 500-1000 in India. Even the XR starts beyond USD 1000. OnePlus 6T on the other hand is like USD 500ish and up or so.
 
[doublepost=1545179868][/doublepost]Taxes are heavy but they are the same for all manufacturers. So why is the Samsung note 9 the same price as the iPhone xs in the US but significantly cheaper than the iPhone xs in India? That suggests that there is an Apple specific problem.

Very very Apple specific problem which is greed! I have been watching prices of iPhones which is increasing steadily Year after Year by minimum $150 while the prices of US and European iphones remained same or increase only in few years.

Samsung and others have come up with manufacturing in India to get tax credits which is being passed on to dealers, customers which is why Samsung flagships cost lesser in India than in US at launch time.
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In 2017, Mercedes-Benz sold:
  • 15k vehicles in India
  • 375k vehicles in U.S.
  • 610k vehicles in China

There's wealth disparity everywhere in the world. In India, there simply aren't enough wealthy consumers. The vast majority of consumers can't afford a basic mobile phone, much less a premium smartphone.

As usual picking the wrong anecdotes and take the discussion tangential analysis-paralysis!!

In India due to worst infrastructure (roads, highways, rest areas, parking), prohibitively exorbitant motor insurance(you can buy a car for one year insurance), very high customs & import duties (it's like Indians buying 2 Mercedes for one) etc....most importantly, in India expensive owners use cheffiuer for their cars. Needless to mention that you don't want your servant to sit and enjoy the most expensive car and paying all the money as salary as well. Since luxury cars provide THE BEST amenities for THE DRIVER!

Indians are far more sensitive to such matters.
 
A colleague in the Netherlands wants to buy an XS but when they start at 1153 euros, he said absolutely not. The latest phone prices are insane. I only have an XS because I was travelling through an airport and picked one up minus taxes.
 
They aren’t Apple because they can’t (emulate Apple’s business model), not because their CEO woke up one morning and decided they would sell cheap smartphones out of the kindness of their hearts.

Just ask them - would they rather have Apple’s profits or Android’s market share?

Apple gets to dictate the prices of their products because they are able to sufficiently differentiate their hardware with custom software. But when you are a commodity smartphone OEM shipping someone else’s OS, you can really only compete on price.

That’s just the reality of a market where Apple takes on over 80% of the profits, and everyone else is fighting tooth and nail for table scraps.

Apple’s business model of selling differentiated hardware at a premium means that they won’t be able to serve everyone (as evidenced by their market share), and I feel that’s perfectly all right.
Well I think Samsung definitely would like to be in Apple’s shoes. I think some companies like xiomi and oppo couldn’t be bothered to put in any of the work and are happy to churn out cheap knockoffs.
 
IDK Samsung/Google etc seem to have no issues selling Premium Phones in India.

The issue is not the price, it is the ecosystem. Apple phones just do not work well in the Windows/Google ecosystem and the rich people who can afford them, are normally not very computer savvy.

To fix this, Apple needs to whole hog. With the whole ecosystem. That is the only way I feel it would work.

Agreed. Apple's offering are not up to par with Samsung or Google. For example, Siri does not understand many Indian accents and things, Map is outdated and severely limited and so on. Apple need to understand/invest in Indian market as they have done in China.
 
Well I think Samsung definitely would like to be in Apple’s shoes. I think some companies like xiomi and oppo couldn’t be bothered to put in any of the work and are happy to churn out cheap knockoffs.

And I do feel that Samsung has come a long way from aping Apple to finding their own unique design language.

Thing is, they still run android (a commoditised OS), and don’t really have any unique ecosystem to call their own which really adds to the user experience. Their services are non-existent.

Not to mention their design philosophy could not be any further apart. Apple just wants to make the best products possible (based on their idiosyncratic vision of what “best” entails, but still), while Samsung just wants to beat Apple.

And that is why there is still that gap between the two, because Samsung still doesn’t know what it is they want to stand for (with regards to their mobile products).
 
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