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Apple Has Encountered 'Little Success' Growing in India Due to High Prices of iPhones

weup togo said:
I even did the math for you. Sigh. :confused:
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I didn't say Apple could get 1% of the market today. I said with India still in development status and just 1% would still be a nice number for Apple in the future.

Apple isn't going to compete with $100 Android phones, so it's more of a waiting game.

You know far less than Apple about this subject, so I'll go with them on it. They execute better than any company in the world.
 
TFW you're too stupid to realize that selling 1000 $500 phones will make more money than selling 200 $1000 phones.
 
falainber said:
Memory management depends not just on OS but also on apps. If one app needs 3GB of memory iOS can't give it to the app if the phone only has 2GB.

Now, compare prepaid iPhone 6S to prepaid Samsung Galaxy S7. iPhone ($300) is 50% more expensive. S7 has AMOLED, 3.68x more pixels and 2x RAM, it also has IP68 dust/water proof (which iPhone does not have), LTE cat9 (vs cat6 for iPhone, that's 1.5x slower). It sounds like Indians might be smarter than Americans.
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No one cares how much RAM a phone has except stat nerds. They care how it performs. There are Android phones with 8GB of RAM and they fail to keep Apps open where the 4GB iPhone XS Max can.

Indians are primarily looking at price, naturally. Developed nations look at other things like value, features, ecosystem, security, support, etc. India will get there eventually. Apple isn't going to sacrifice its strategy just to gain share in India. It will take time, but developing nations eventually have money to spend on nicer things and will.
 
critter13 said:
the iPhone SE is still a great phone, feels almost as fast as my X, i would think it would do well in India.
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For the price of the iPhone SE in India, you have plenty of Chinese phones who offer about the same the iPhone X does. I’m not saying iPhones aren’t good, but they’re certainly not competitive priced.
It’s time Apple acknowledge that they’re not ahead anymore so to sustain market share they A. accept lower profit margins on the iPhones B. invest more and work harder on hard- and software to justify the price gaps.

Worldwide mobile congress in Barcelona is around the corner and the leaks I’ve seen from other vendors make the whole iPhone range look outdated.

It’s time Saint Cook recognizes Apple is getting behind on all fronts.
 
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HJM.NL said:
iPhones market share is also vaporizing in Europe. :rolleyes: I have no clue why that is...

Wake up Saint Cook, when all your crops are being harvested, it’s about time to plant new seeds.
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Apple sold more iPhones in 2018 than in 2017. They aren't going for the most market share.

You also have no credible data to support your claim.
 
falainber said:
Memory management depends not just on OS but also on apps. If one app needs 3GB of memory iOS can't give it to the app if the phone only has 2GB.

Now, compare prepaid iPhone 6S to prepaid Samsung Galaxy S7. iPhone ($300) is 50% more expensive. S7 has AMOLED, 3.68x more pixels and 2x RAM, it also has IP68 dust/water proof (which iPhone does not have), LTE cat9 (vs cat6 for iPhone, that's 1.5x slower). It sounds like Indians might be smarter than Americans.
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Well, we Europeans get smarter too. € 1295 for an iPhone XS and € 699 for a Samsung Galaxy S9. No contest here.
 
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weup togo said:
Go look up how much the top 5% in India make. They can't afford iPhones either. It is an incredibly poor country. Even those who live well there make a pittance compared to the American middle class.

All of Tim's claims about India being a growth driver were a fraud on investors. The numbers were NEVER there.

Edit: since I'm being attacked, I'll do everyone's research for them:

The top 2% of all Indian households bring in more than $710 per month.
The top 0.2% are bringing in a whopping US$17,000 per year.

That's 2.6 million people. The tail keeps tapering rapidly before you get down to the irrelevant handful who can genuinely afford Apple gear. There was never any market for iPhones in India, and there won't be in the next 20 years.

Source
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Been there, 2 decades ago, cycled through India, my friend and I at that time were already saying this, India will never be rich if things don't change, and here we are 20 years later and nothing much changed.

The country is incredibly poor, only few of them can afford iPhones.
Most don't have, or very little, education.
And then there's the Indian government, and religion, corruption and the caste system amongst many other problems.


HJM.NL said:
Well, we Europeans get smarter too. € 1295 for an iPhone XS and € 699 for a Samsung Galaxy S9. No contest here.
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What's that supposed to mean, "we"-speak for yourself, "Europeans get smarter too"-what the hell that even means.:confused:
 
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Baymowe335 said:
I didn't say Apple could get 1% of the market today. I said with India still in development status and just 1% would still be a nice number for Apple in the future.

Apple isn't going to compete with $100 Android phones, so it's more of a waiting game.

You know far less than Apple about this subject, so I'll go with them on it. They execute better than any company in the world.
Click to expand...

Unlike you, I know that Tim quit talking about India growth two years ago, after beating that drum every quarterly call for four years. I've listened to every call for 20 years. I also know that this isn't even the first recent article on the subject. Apple recently reorganized and shuffled around executives due to the complete failure of their India ambitions. I did this math years ago, something the so-called "analysts" never bothered with.

Being critical isn't the same as being mean, or being negative. People who have emotional reactions to the truth are something else.
 
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Splatt123 said:
But the Apple share price has fallen dramatically. Things have to change.
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No they don’t. You probably aren’t aware that tech stocks have been taking a beating due to the political climate and threat of sanctions.

As long as Apple returns great financials, meets their next quarter’s guidance, and posts a 38% GPM, Apple will do fine.

People have been saying Apple’s end is near for years and years. Nothing new.
 
Baymowe335 said:
No one cares how much RAM a phone has except stat nerds. They care how it performs. There are Android phones with 8GB of RAM and they fail to keep Apps open where the 4GB iPhone XS Max can.

Indians are primarily looking at price, naturally. Developed nations look at other things like value, features, ecosystem, security, support, etc. India will get there eventually. Apple isn't going to sacrifice its strategy just to gain share in India. It will take time, but developing nations eventually have money to spend on nicer things and will.
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Not true. RAM is a huge selling point to a lot of people in India and China. Why do you think Lenovo just came out with a 12gb phone?
 
weup togo said:
There is no argument that the truly wealthy in India have very expensive taste. Tata saved Jaguar from itself as a result. The point is one of simple numbers. When there are only 2.6 million people making $17k per year, there is simply no real market for Apple. My point stands: Tim was lying about the endless possibilities in India in this decade. Perhaps in the late 2030s or 2040s, there will be a thriving Indian middle class akin to China's. But that is not happening in the foreseeable future.
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I am gonna go ahead and say you have never been to India nor you have an idea of how wealth in India works. India has a MASSIVE "black money" problem. Majority of the country DOES NOT declare accurate income to avoid paying tax. Look it up. So while the "official" numbers might say that only 2.6mil make $17k a year (which again is an absurd comparison, prices in India are completely different than our American USD Prices), the real number is significantly bigger. How I know this? I am a 2nd generation American of Indian origin. I have seen and heard people declare income as little as $2000 equivalent and own iPhones and apple watches. That's not to say India is a country that's not poor, it is but a huge majority of India doesn't even pay income tax.

I have seen doctors report their salary as low as $5-6k equivalent in INR while they make 10-20x that much.

https://www.npr.org/sections/parall.../why-do-so-few-people-pay-income-tax-in-india

Only 2% of Indians paid any income tax last year.
 
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Still dont see why Apple doesn't just make a really budget phone. Say with an 6 year old tech but with same relative markup in a plastic/rubber body and sell it like the old eMac - anyone remember that?
 
Was literally just having a conversation at lunch about the outrageous prices iPhones have these days, then came to MacRumors and this was the first thing I saw. Lol.
 
Abs_p said:
I am gonna go ahead and say you have never been to India nor you have an idea of how wealth in India works. India has a MASSIVE "black money" problem. Majority of the country DOES NOT declare accurate income to avoid paying tax. Look it up. So while the "official" numbers might say that only 2.6mil make $17k a year (which again is an absurd comparison, prices in India are completely different than our American USD Prices), the real number is significantly bigger. How I know this? I am a 2nd generation American of Indian origin. I have seen and heard people declare income as little as $2000 equivalent and own iPhones and apple watches. That's not to say India is a country that's not poor, it is but a huge majority of India doesn't even pay income tax.

I have seen doctors report their salary as low as $5-6k equivalent in INR while they make 10-20x that much.

https://www.npr.org/sections/parall.../why-do-so-few-people-pay-income-tax-in-india

Only 2% of Indians paid any income tax last year.
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Who cares if the majority of Indians work in the black market and don't pay income tax?

They're not buying iPhone or any other luxury goods. They're not buying Mercedes-Benz vehicles. They're not traveling to Europe buying Bottega Veneta bags.
 
I have lived in India the shopping there absolutely sucks. They have malls around which have a few of the same brand shops. An Adidas shop, Nike and Reebok. After that maybe a Lacoste or something like that. That's all there is. No Tesco, Walmart, regular supermarkets nothing of the sort.

Apple isn't the only one having trouble breaking into the Indian market.
 
It's baffling to me that Apple doesn't see that a lower cost iPhone is a requirement for gaining market share in a developing country. If you want to market yourself as a status symbol you're going to sell very few devices. Embrace that, or offer an attractive lower cost option.

In the US, iPhone gave Apple the lead before Android phones became competitive. They've managed to keep the momentum going by making the Apple ecosystem so attractive. In developing countries, Android gained the market share first due to the lower cost and wide range of devices. It's going to take a lot more than brand imaging to get those users to jump ship to iOS.
 
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ryanwarsaw said:
I have lived in India the shopping there absolutely sucks. They have malls around which have a few of the same brand shops. An Adidas shop, Nike and Reebok. After that maybe a Lacoste or something like that. That's all there is. No Tesco, Walmart, regular supermarkets nothing of the sort.

Apple isn't the only one having trouble breaking into the Indian market.
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What India have you been to ? :rolleyes:

Here's a small snapshot of brands in India...

https://www.selectcitywalk.com/shopping/
http://lulumall.in/fashion
https://www.phoenixmarketcity.com/chennai/brands

The ignorance in this thread is off the hook!
 
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JPack said:
Who cares if the majority of Indians work in the black market and don't pay income tax?

They're not buying iPhone or any other luxury goods. They're not buying Mercedes-Benz vehicles. They're not traveling to Europe buying Bottega Veneta bags.
Click to expand...

where did you pick up the word "black market" lol.
 
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