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I'm sure there are changes but MR seems to be a doomsday-er these days.

Prob just feels that way with more going on behind the scenes than is normal, understandably so.

This could be a very interesting WWDC and 12-18 months ahead!

I'm honestly really excited about it, in a way I haven't been for quite a while now.
 
I wish Apple would make a ruggedized iPad Ultra for harsh environments. We have a few hundred iPads in the field being used all day, and a model in a rugged shell with 2x battery and active cooling (for those hot days) would be fantastic. Yes, it’s bigger and heavier, but everyone has to put a case on them now, so what’s the difference?
 
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I wonder if the "disappointing sales numbers" are due to the fact that the iPad Pro is a stellar product and has been since the A18 version. Adding the M1 made it virtually unnecessary to upgrade. I have an M2 and feel no need to upgrade or replace it with another iPad Pro.

I think it is one part, but not nearly the whole story.

My M1 iPad Pro developed a blurry selfie camera after 3 years. Supposedly the glue the selfie camera is glued onto the backside of the screen glass with got loose. Apple quoted me a $1,200 repair bill just for the selfie camera. Haha.
In a nutshell, iPad Pros have flaws too, they are not really a "stellar product". Once they develop issues after 3+ years, repairs are ridiculously expensive - because the iPad is not a repairable product. Repair = Exchange. Or in other words, a clear case that the iPad is over-engineered.
It's OK to not repair and just replace a low cost product, but higher priced products should be repairable, and at decent prices.
I suppose other people learnt this lesson too, hence there are fewer repeat buyers.

On top of that, as you said, the new models do not offer enough new features to even warrant an upgrade.
For as long as your old iPad Pro runs, it'll just run and do pretty much the same any newer model could do.
By now Apple effectively ran out of ideas what they could offer in new iPad Pro models, other than a new M class chip which by now is so ridiculously overpowered for an iPad that the iPadOS does not really know what to do with it anymore.

Last but not least, people are more and more sensitive about money these days. People get laid off, prices rise left right and center, uncertainties are all around. Unless an iPad Pro is an essential tool for you, you will likely no longer be willing to pay as much for it. Which somehow rules out the whole iPad Pro category as most people will likely "downgrade" to an iPad Air for their next iPad device.

This whole economic trend puts some big clouds over Apple's latest idea to develop a high-end "Ultra" class of devices. If true.
In a market where people and businesses tighten their belts, a product like the MacBook Neo makes sense. A product like the rumored MacBook Ultra makes less sense. Who wants to pay US$ 10,000-15,000 for a fully specced MacBook Ultra? Sure, some people will have the money and use for it, but will their numbers be enough to warrant the existence of the whole product category? Likely not.
I am quite worried that in today's economic climate a "MacBook Ultra" will eventually just go the way of the Vision Pro... Not enough sales numbers to warrant the whole product category, and it slowly dies...
 
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Honestly, they can't even get the file system right with this damn thing. My files have been randomly disappearing so it's not even a reliable place to store important files. Back to being a $1000 small youtube screen. I contacted support and all they can tell me is 🤷‍♂️ copy your files, factory reset the thing, put the files back and see what happens.
Speaking of filesystems, files need to be properly manageable when an I*OS device is plugged in to a desktop or laptop. Almost all Android devices have had the ability to act like a plain USB stick since at least 1.5. It might not have mattered quite so much back when storage cost much less, but it's an expensive pain to not be able to do this now.
 
Love how they frame it as failure to sell. The hardware has been fantastic and ahead of its time. Everyone who has one love the form factor size and power. The problem has always and will always been Apple trying to “LIMIT” the iPad to a niche product. This device should be running a full OSX desktop class OS and it would be their number one seller. The NEO has shown already that there is no real reason the technology inside can’t run the full OS, it’s apple fault and I hope the new management turns this around.
 
Love how they frame it as failure to sell. The hardware has been fantastic and ahead of its time. Everyone who has one love the form factor size and power. The problem has always and will always been Apple trying to “LIMIT” the iPad to a niche product. This device should be running a full OSX desktop class OS and it would be their number one seller. The NEO has shown already that there is no real reason the technology inside can’t run the full OS, it’s apple fault and I hope the new management turns this around.

This 👆

If I could run macOS on it, I'd already have a maxed out iPad Pro with Cellular as my "only".

There's no way I'm paying "Macbook Air (or Pro) money" for iPadOS, however.
 
Love how they frame it as failure to sell. The hardware has been fantastic and ahead of its time. Everyone who has one love the form factor size and power. The problem has always and will always been Apple trying to “LIMIT” the iPad to a niche product. This device should be running a full OSX desktop class OS and it would be their number one seller. The NEO has shown already that there is no real reason the technology inside can’t run the full OS, it’s apple fault and I hope the new management turns this around.

I fully agree.
But Apple painted itself into a corner here.

You do realize that releasing an iPad Pro with macOS will severely reduce the number of MacBooks sold?
Not something Apple wants. Apple wants to sell their customers two devices, an iPad and a Mac. Not just one device that can do it all. It's just plain corporate greed. Or "shareholder value" if you like.

They cannot give macOS to the iPad Pro. For revenue issues. I bet they'd much rather remove the whole product category if it is no longer viable on its own. It's what they did with the 12" MacBook.
 
Love how they frame it as failure to sell. The hardware has been fantastic and ahead of its time. Everyone who has one love the form factor size and power. The problem has always and will always been Apple trying to “LIMIT” the iPad to a niche product. This device should be running a full OSX desktop class OS and it would be their number one seller. The NEO has shown already that there is no real reason the technology inside can’t run the full OS, it’s apple fault and I hope the new management turns this around.

I have the 11-inch iPad Pro M4, and it is a great tablet and gets plenty of use. I was able to buy with a veteran discount, so that helped. For me, it is missing cellular calling. MacOS would be a real plus, but if I could make cellular calls with iPadOS, that would be dandy. I could mount it in my car and do FaceTime, etc.
 
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I fully agree.
But Apple painted itself into a corner here.

You do realize that releasing an iPad Pro with macOS will severely reduce the number of MacBooks sold?
Not something Apple wants. Apple wants to sell their customers two devices, an iPad and a Mac. Not just one device that can do it all. It's just plain corporate greed. Or "shareholder value" if you like.

They cannot give macOS to the iPad Pro. For revenue issues. I bet they'd much rather remove the whole product category if it is no longer viable on its own. It's what they did with the 12" MacBook.

MacOS on an iPad would attract buyers who do not want a laptop and will not buy a laptop. I don't think Apple would lose MacBook sales as much as they would increase iPad sales. I have zero need for a hinged 'device', so a tablet with MacOS would be something I would buy. As it is, my current iPad Pro M4 will probably be the last iPad I buy.
 
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You do realize that releasing an iPad Pro with macOS will severely reduce the number of MacBooks sold?

Maybe ... but we are here talking about this in the context of iPad Pro sales not being super robust and them potentially punting on an Ultra version.

I think that would tell us that most folks are either buying an iPad Pro or a Mac, and infrequently "both".

It'd be better if they offered macOS across Macs & iPadPros so that buyers could purchase the hardware (touch or not) that fits their needs best.
 
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I have the 11-inch iPad Pro M4, and it is a great tablet and gets plenty of use. I was able to buy with a veteran discount, so that helped. For me, it is missing cellular calling. MacOS would be a real plus, but if I could make cellular calls with iPadOS, that would be dandy. I could mount it in my car and do FaceTime, etc.

There are applications that can do Voice over IP! Just like Skype used to do it before Microsoft shut this feature down.

You have to pay a regular fee as with most mobile carriers, but you get a real phone number and people can call you and you can make regular phone calls.
Brastel for example has a "My050" app that does that.

It may not be available in every country, but in that case it is likely a limitation of the local legal framework for phone companies not a technical issue.

Pretty much the only thing you will never be able to do is SMS messages.
And that sucks as many two-factor authentications these days work via SMS still. But these tend to slowly migrate towards authenticator apps, luckily.
But some other applications, like apps to purchase concert tickets for example, still require SMS verifications too.
 
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Maybe ... but we are here talking about this in the context of iPad Pro sales not being super robust and them potentially punting on an Ultra version.

I think that would tell us that most folks are either buying an iPad Pro or a Mac, and infrequently "both".

It'd be better if they offered macOS across Macs & iPadPros so that buyers could purchase the hardware (touch or not) that fits their needs best.

I fully agree.

But I do believe that Apple painted itself into a corner with their iPad product line and pricing scheme.
It just got way too expensive and limiting in the high end range. No wonder sales slump.

I think that quite a lot of people buy a low-end iPad and a Mac. Not as many an iPad Pro and a Mac.

An iPad Pro with keyboard folio is actually quite expensive, compared to a MacBook. And even more so since the Neo's debut.
The Neo is also an indirect admittance by Apple that iPads with keyboard folios did not work out in the education market, that ultimately an all-in-one clamshell notebook computer device is best as the main device.
I am not sold on the idea that a lot of people would prefer an iPad with keyboard folio over a clamshell MacBook as their main device. Sure there will be some, but will these be enough to warrant Apple to service and support macOS on iPads?!? Likely not.

So the conundrum for Apple is this:
With an already shrinking iPad Pro market, which barely makes a profit considering the total costs of keeping that product category alive, Apple might incur even more costs by having to now also develop and support macOS on iPad Pros too. If macOS iPad Pro sales don't warrant the development and support effort required, that product category will run even deeper in the reds...

And I can see a lot of issues with running macOS on current iPad Pros. People were moaning heavily about the single USB-C port on the 12" MacBook. I bet the same issues will resurface with iPad Pros running macOS. Soon we will need iPad Pros with 2 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports to even be useful with macOS.
With currently just one port, running macOS on iPad Pros will be a dongle nightmare. And these will dangle around even more inconveniently on iPad Pros than on MacBooks where that port is at least on the "keyboard part" of the device. Will users be accepting of that?

Will it therefore not make more sense for Apple to develop and release an iPad Pro with at least 2 USB-C/Thunderbolt ports?
But will the battery be able to handle two ports for a whole day of work? Or do we then need even bigger and heavier iPad Pros with larger batteries to properly support two or more ports? And how many of these iPad Pros will Apple be able to sell?
With sales already falling, can Apple risk running the whole iPad Pro line into even deeper reds with even more niche iPad Pro models that would be necessary to properly support macOS?

If the whole iPad product line would be tighter and not as expensive on the top end, it could all make sense.
But Apple painted themselves into a corner with their current iPad product lineup and pricing scheme IMHO.
 
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Speaking of filesystems, files need to be properly manageable when an I*OS device is plugged in to a desktop or laptop. Almost all Android devices have had the ability to act like a plain USB stick since at least 1.5. It might not have mattered quite so much back when storage cost much less, but it's an expensive pain to not be able to do this now.
Agreed. I understand they don't want us snooping into root systems and all, but being able to access the same directories we have access to through iOS would be nice (although I don't know if this is already there since I never do that).
 
Honestly sad. I wouldn’t buy anything other than an iPad Pro due to the Face ID and screen quality, plus the compatibility with the high end Magic Keyboard.

They also have a very long lifespan and make for great living room computing devices. I reach for it often on the sofa and controlling my home sound system.

The 2020 iPad Pro is one of the best pieces of Apple hardware I've ever owned.

But the current OLED version has made an already questionable value proposition even worse, and tries to answer questions that few were asking, made worse by the hardware/software capability imbalance. Not once have I ever picked mine up and though that it should be thinner and more delicate.

My Pro is clearly showing the noticeable effects of age in terms of battery life, if not otherwise.

I could live without ProMotion, but going back to Touch ID is not negotiable, on any device.

Waiting for the closeout sales on the M5 when it is replaced seems to be the best path at this point, and made easier if it's as unpopular as perceived.

The Pro is once case where they have made it too good, and made it worse by trying to make it better with so little room to spare.
 
My iPad Pro M1 is still working very well, no signs of it slowing down. Therefore no need to upgrade.

Even if I have to upgrade, I'm not paying the Pro premium anymore because I'm not a fan of OLED displays and I found the iPad version of Face ID annoying.
 
This is bad news for consumers because it means no iPad Ultra for the majority of us who have now transitioned to iPadOS from macOS as our primary computing platform for ultimate productivity.

The ‘majority of us’? Really?? I very much doubt that. Unless I’m sketching with the Apple Pencil, I’ll choose my Mac over my iPad any day of the week.
 
iPad Pro sale issues are of their own making however, not a lack of customer demand. Hardware is amazing, but held back by the software as they and everyone knows. iPadOS itself and the restrictions and rules that make it not sustainable for devs to build native software on the platform that is needed for pros. Devs either skipped supporting it or did and then eventually abandoned it after noting in blog posts the reason why it wasn't sustainable due to Apple limitations. Some of those are for performance, some security, and others for maintaining Apple's profits. Since Apple hasn't budged on any of that over the years, other than in places where forced to by a government a bit, I assume they decide the downsides for Apple as a whole aren't worth the gains of increase iPad Pro sales, which would still be relatively niche compared to things like the iPhone.

They may have decided it makes more sense to have macOS get touch support and then put on a more iPad like device than the bigger changes it would take to make iPadOS as powerful as macOS. Time will tell.

What are you looking for some thing like Photoshop or CorelDRAW for the iPad?
 
What do you mean iPadOS is limiting or lacking and needs more fetatures?

[I suppose that quote was sarcastic... but in case not, let me add a few things:]

Oh! My list is looooong!

* Multiple "window" support sucks.
The way iPad OS handles multitasking between several apps and windows is very unintuitive.
I always end up tapping the wrong widget or wrong edge and suddenly I'm in spilt screen, can't get rid of the second screen and whatnot.
If all I want is to make one application's UI (window) smaller, so that I can put it aside, but have it still visible onscreen so I can reference its data in another application that I want to have fullscreen to work on, that's troublesome on iPads.
On a personal computer this is very easy, just resize the first application window small while keeping the important parts visible, then shove that window to edge of the monitor, switch to another app and resize that window to a size that keeps the previous smaller window visible.
On the iPad it just feels tons more clumsy and complex to do the same simple task.

* Multitasking of apps sucks.
While the iPad offers picture-in-picture for e.g. YouTube videos, I find that the iPadOS interferes too often and ends up interrupting or stopping that background video. Because either the front app could also play video and therefore just stops any other picture-in-picture video task. Or a website has autoplay on, which forces your picture-in-picture to stop.
On a personal computer video in another window just keeps playing, even if the front app plays some other video. They can play both at the same time. On the iPad this is nearly impossible to do. Try having 3 browser tabs with videos playing all at the same time! Often not possible.
Sometimes I deliberately want this. E.g. playing some music in the background, while waiting for a streaming video to start while chatting with a friend on Google Meet to discuss the streaming video together. Easy on my Mac. Never managed to do that on my iPad...
Then other apps that I deliberately have running in the background on my iPad for notifications get auto-shut down by the iPadOS after e.g. a month of running. If I don't constantly bring these to the foreground to keep them alive, they just die on my and so do all its notifications... Ugh.

* Notification handling sucks.
While it is nice to have notifications like on a phone, they always interrupt, and when dismissed are gone who knows where, more often than not I am unable to get back to them, or they automatically decide to snooze and show up again some minutes later, with no control whether you want to snooze them or not. Often they do not show up in Notification Center or don't provide the control that one would want.
Somehow notifications seem to work much better in macOS.
Notifications on iPad feel clumsy to the point that I often switch as many of them off as I can - just to avoid having to deal with them.

* Manipulating data in several applications seems much easier on a personal computer.
The iPad's clunky "Files" system makes it hard to locate files and keep them organized. Often you open it up and it just shows a big video full-screen or some other file that you need to close first - while all I wanted was to see and locate some files. The "Files" application should not also be a viewer application, that should be handled separately.
On a Mac I can just keep all apps I intend to use together open and visible at the same time, in windows next to each other, where I can then easily save temp files on the desktop or use copy/paste to transfer the temp data into another application, and then on to the next application etc.
On the iPad I need to store it in Files which may not even be instantly available, having to close a few viewers first, not all apps support it properly, or when copy/pasting sometimes content ends up without styles, ugh... that kind of multi-app workflow just never worked for me on the iPad. It is seemingly a massive amount faster and easier on a Mac.

* Preferences and Settings are all over the place.
The way some settings are in an application's own preferences, others in the iPad Settings under the application name, and yet still others in some completely different location.
For example I always get confused as to where do I switch my Apple Music login ID? Why is it not in the same place as with Music on macOS? A lot of other iApps have similar chaos in regards to where which of their settings are...

* Have you ever tried switching users on an iPad?
Sure, Apple even says that i-Devices are not designed for multiple users. Fair enough. But then they geo-fence features or support them only in certain apps or OS versions that this simply requires users to create several Apple IDs to be able to do all the things that you can do on a personal computer easily...
So there will be situations where you need to switch your Apple ID. I have 4 by now...
Yet on an iPad this is a Royal Pain In The Arse! First you need to deactivate "Find My", then you need to delete all data, then worry about which to keep and later merge, wait for the iPad to do its thing, then log in with the other user, wait until all your stuff and settings change and are downloaded, while all your FaceTime and Messages sessions were force-logged out.
And then the whole thing in reverse, to go back to your main Apple ID. Ugh. No thanks.

* Intransparent settings.
Speaking of Apple IDs on i-Devices. My "Music" app on iPad has no user signed in, all web downloads, Siri settings, radio etc. are switched off. Still, every time I open "Music" it attempts to connect to some Apple servers and complains that no user is signed in. Why? Where can one switch this off? No idea. This is not transparent. Ugh.

* Seemingly enforced subscriptions everywhere.
Everything in iPadOS more and more becomes a "subscription" service. What if I don't want that?
People often end up paying for stuff they barely use or not even use at all. It's getting bad on Windows and macOS too, but it's really bad on iPadOS. Apple is pushing hard to make even many features of iPadOS a subscription exclusive.


I think I stop here. But I could go on for ages...
You hopefully get the picture.

iPadOS is just really clumsy to use and in my opinion totally unituitive and incoherent - at least when you compare it to most personal computer OSes.
The iPads M class chip is amazingly powerful, and could put many desktops to shame, but with iPadOS all that power goes to waste, I feel...
There are a few individual apps that certainly profit from the M class chips, but the way iPadOS, apps and data are handled and interact is just not worthy of all that power, I find.

It depends on your use cases, of course. So your milage will vary.
And I understand some people love iPadOS.
Me, I just can't stand it. Going back and forth between Windows, macOS and iPadOS, every time I use iPadOS I just feel like I'm put into a straight jacket... Nothing works quickly. Nothing works as one would expect. Everything feels clumsy, unintuitive and all over the place.

p.s.
With the iPad's CPU getting more and more powerful, Apple tried to find ways to make the iPad able to use that immense power. Fair enough.
But at the end of the day iPadOS is still derived from a phone operating system that was at its core designed for 3 1/2 inch multi-touch screens that could handle a few smart apps. The design language of that operating system was never intended for powerful features like multitasking applications.

When Apple moved iPadOS out of iOS, they had a chance to completely redesign it, to allow it to handle more powerful features.
Yet either Apple did not have the manpower to redesign iOS for iPad properly, or they lacked ideas how to even do this, or it was a political decision to keep iPadOS close to iOS in design - either way, in my opinion that transition from iOS to iPadOS failed completely.
All we got was iOS with a few "Frankenstein'd" features bolted on that just feel unintuitive, rather than getting a new powerful multi-touch OS that can support and handle powerful handheld hardware.
 
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my guess- iPad Pro sales are probably sluggish since the iPad Airs started getting M-chips and come in 13” size.
Totally. I’ve had a 12.9 IPad Pro with an M1 chip for ages. The replacement is so expensive. When time comes for a new one I’ll be getting an Air instead for sure.
 
I wanted a pro for the longest time due to the 13" size, but could never justify the crazy price for the additional features I had no use for. When the Air 13" came out, I got that and I'm very happy with the purchase.
 
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