Google already allows side loading and alt app stores, Amazon, Samsung, epic online app store. What other rules do you want to place on Google?
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Apple Has 'Very Serious' DMA Issues, EU to Enforce Rules 'Soon'
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If you think iCloud plus makes the same kind of money as 50K in SQL licensing….
Have to disagree with you there. I know two developers who do just enough business to not qualify for 15%, and they’re run very tight on margins. Less than 5% which could be a solid 20% if they could control the fees and think even credit card fees cost ~3% so if they could pay a core technology fee of 15% and 3%, they would be much more likely a going concern. Whereas now they’re nearly cooked if one thing goes wrong.
...says the same person who earlier wrote:
"take WhatsApp for example. Where I live it is a mandatory app for doing business. But when Meta decides to deliver their app outside the Apple App store, they are going to bypass Apple's strict standards on data collection. And I will be forced to use their app due to it being required for me to do business."
Well, seems you don't chose your gatekeepers so freely and they do hold some control over your life, don't they?
No need to have a police - when you can rely on simple market forces.
WhatsApp is no traditional monopoly - because there are other messengers. That is very clear.
So government shouldn't meddle in the private matters of WhatsApp - do you concur?
So is WhatsApp in some countries.
Given how much they're spending on maintaining their service, surely your business can't expect to freeload on them. If WhatsApp decide they want a share of your business revenue to be compensated for their service, surely that's their private matter?
If you don't like it, you'll just vote with your walled and use another messenger, right?
Apple is estimated to command more than 50% (more than half) of mobile app spend in Europe.
They aren't a minor player.
Also, this isn't how this works. Competition on iOS apps (and app marketplaces) is as important as on Android - in order for Android not to become a monopoly.
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No one is stopping apple from making and selling server database software. It is Tim's choice to only do consumer online storage.
But again this is the issue we constantly run in to. Google and Apple aren’t competitors here. It’s all about intra market competition
They have already proven that the AppStore is harming the market.
As a silly example, what will iOS users who played Fortnite do now that it’s removed?
Epic suddenly became unable to service their existing users and the users no longer have access to their purchase unless they change hardware.
The equivalent would be if Mac only allowed the AppStore and windows only allowed their windows store for their customer base.
The issue at hand is the inability to access alternativ competing services towards the singular one largely limited to.
Yup. It is. 100% legal.
I know some people don't want to read the DMA text because they want to believe it's a "mess." But it isn't.
Apple's CTF violates the yardstick defined in the DMA. There are no similar providers of third party app stores charging 30%.
But that's different - I don't know the margin done by their cloud services compared to that done by SQL licenses... this is the business model (price, demand, supply, ...) and this isn't the topic we are discussing.
The topic is to highlight that EACH company can make revenues by selling a product or by selling a service. So there is no reason to "forgive" a$$le because it "needs" another stream of revenue. They sell phones and sell cloud services. You cannot ask money for something already "sold" and not under maintenance.
I know its billions of dollars, but if I was Apple I would start pulling out of the EU. Its also billions in tax revenue for those countries. Consumers in the EU would go nuts if Apple pulled out and then politicians would start to cave.
Thank you for reporting the exact DMA text.
Many people here prefer to "believe"... by the way, isn't a$$le defined as a "cult"? (There is even a famous website called cultof...) - so in a cult you must "believe", not study the original text.
Yes, the iPhone launched and was by all measures a success before the App Store.
However, it would be naive and short-sighted to suggest the App Store wasn't a monumentally important addition to the iPhone, bringing tens of thousands of developers and thus an extremely rich app ecosystem with it.
The fact that the app installation worked exactly as it did was a critical factor in making the app such an over-night success, as it streamlined billing, discovery, and app development (to name just a few) for a cut of 30% which - at the time - was widely considered a great deal for developers.
Of course they try. It's standard business everywhere. In the EU alone there's a combined "budget" of almost 2 billion for "lobbying" being used by a huge number of lobbyists. That number probably quadruples when all the "lobbyists" in regional and local governments are added. So YES, with that huge budget, there is bribery going on, but no one will call it that because it's a bad word.
(source here)
"At EU level, lobbying activities lack comprehensive regulation. The Council, for example, has no system in place to protect itself from unethical lobbying."
Ok so as I said earlier in this post the correct answer is to stop the 99/299 developer costs and switch to a model that you must sign a yearly contact to produce valid apps and that’s the end of it. You don’t get signed apps if you don’t pay yearly for maintenance that’s how every other license works. You want visual studio you have licensees. You want to develop Apple Apps you need licenses.
This is where it’s going to land. Microsoft/Spotify/Epic isn’t going to get to develop and maintain their apps for a billion user userbase for 299 a year. We won’t know what they pay and everyone will be different. If that’s not allowed please explain VMWare or any other software and how the pricing works under DMA. And if VMware isn’t a gatekeeper the law is a joke.
The commissioners can’t do anything without the consent of the parliament (directly elected representatives) and the heads of states( also elected).
If apple users started to make a lot of noice, then nobody would really care as they are still only 20-30%.
Commissioners are the executive branch with the closest equivalent of the FTC or other federal body.
The European Parliament can dissolve the College of Commissioners as a whole following a vote of no-confidence, which requires a two-thirds vote…and that ain’t happening over this.
And they have done in-depth research of what different stakeholders and expert opinion are. And they do this all the time. So I would say no, Apple probably doesn’t have any relevant impact considering they aren’t a big employer
It was great at a few years after it launched, when there weren't that many apps and the good ones actually got highlighted. Now, it's an objectively terrible way to discover apps, and even searching the exact name of the app you're looking for often brings up shoddy alternatives who've paid to target their competitors as keywords.
Again, the success of the iPhone does not come down to how apps are installed. That may be a tiny piece of the puzzle, but there are so many more important factors here.
This last sentence explains very well your level of knowledge. Congratulations. Let's stop here.
Well… I agree, but the council is made up of locally elected ministers from the member state and they have their own rules regarding lobbying.
And this is already addressed https://eucrim.eu/news/parliament-a...andatory-transparency-register-for-lobbyists/
Why would Apple raise prices (unless they already planned to)? Major corporations like Apple always maximize price for maximum profits, and minimize expenses to maximize profits. They've already raised prices to what they believe makes them the most money. A EU fine doesn't change what that is. It's in their best interest to figure out how to comply and not pay a major fine though.
And again, Apple has $65 Billion in what I called spare change. Cash and cash equivalents is money not locked up in long term investments that Apple can spend on short notice without penalty or need to raise free cash flow through loans or other means. They can essentially pay any fine smaller than that and just move on... (with an admittedly lighter wallet)
Yeah only that case isn't closed and it doesn't look good for Apple.
Apple tax: iPhone maker and Government suffer major setback in €13bn EU case
Opinion of key advisor to European Court of Justice comes months ahead of final ruling on world’s biggest antitrust case
Every single educated opinion I've read about Apple's response to the DMA confirms they're in violation. This includes lawyers and professors in the U.S.
"Unless Apple make significant changes to its implementation plans, which it will likely not do, the EC should open infringement proceedings on 7 March 2024. Apple’s proposed plans are so at odds with the company’s obligations under the DMA, that EC officials will have no choice."
When Apple takes the European Commission for fools: An initial overview of Apple’s new terms and conditions for iOS app distribution in the EU - The Platform Law Blog
Yesterday, Apple made an important announcement regarding changes to iOS, Safari, and the App Store in the European Union in response to the Digital Markets Act (“DMA”). This announcement covers a lot of ground and should be read in parallel with a number of accompanying documents. In this blog...
theplatformlaw.blog
I am fine with companies making profit. I am not fine with the profit coming from illegal behaviours. If random forum participants could understand Apple was violating the law I am sure apple with their army of lawyers knew it too. They just tried their luck, and failed. Good for the EU to stand their ground and reject Apple’s arrogant behaviour.
If it weren’t of value to its citizens it would not be there.
Because in long term studies it has proven rather inefficient to go kill your customers, who just happen to live there too.
I just got back to TJs city after three months in France, Spain, and Portugal. I drink a lot of wine, hang with a lot of wine buyers for restaurants, sip a lot, and know what's good. 😀 And just finished a nice bottle of Cab from Argentina (a bit heavy on green pepper). Wine, Miami Dolphins, and tech. Pretty much all I know. And of course food that goes with the wine. The rest of life doesn't really matter. Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something witty.