Apple Highlights Five Reasons the iPad Pro Can Be Your Next Computer

[Detnator]

Actually, I'm saying 'before apple claims that it can replace my laptop, they should give to it the same basic features'. It's common sense.

Luckily they don’t want to replace your laptop.

Many people (including you) use a computer for tasks that are suited to a laptop computer. Those people should use a laptop computer.

Other people use a computer for tasks that are well suited to a tablet computer. Those people should use a tablet computer.

Why don’t people here understand this: Apple isn’t trying to sell this to people who use laptops for tasks suited to laptops. Apple is trying to sell this to people who use laptops for tasks better suited to a tablet but haven’t been able to until recently. That market is huge.

That’s common sense.

 

[dk001]

I could even largely get over the lack of a trackpad when trying to use the iPad to do even light spreadsheet and document work, but I can’t get past the fact that simple things like text selection are still fundamentally broken. They just don’t work consistently or reliably. Or that I have to rely on 3rd party apps to be constantly updating their software just to have reliable access to files (using iCloud and the Files app is not possible in a world where you have to collaborate with other people).

I have the new iPad Pro. I’ve had virtually every iPad since the original. It’s my favorite computing device ever made. But there is simply no excuse for how difficult Apple continues to make doing even simple tasks.

One personal example from this week. I simply needed to fill out an expense report. This means filling in an Excel spreadsheet, comparing this sheet to a reference sheet (can’t have two sheets open side by side). Downloading receipts from my email (was on an airplane when I tried to start this. My emails were on the iPad, but attachments don’t get downloaded automatically or stored offline - couldn’t do my work). When I do have access to the attachments and want to save them to the folder in my cloud provider, every single time I have a new receipt to save, I have to use the Share sheet, and navigate down a long list of apps, 90% of which I never use, to find the app I need (no way to customize this list), open the other app, navigate about 8 layers deep to my folder level where the receipt needs to go, and save it). Each time I have to repeat this ridiculously long process. On a laptop it’s simply a copy/paste operation with two windows side by side.

The iPad does win because I can scan my receipts right there in the field without a scanner and that works great (although with the same ridiculous contortions as above to actually get to the folder location I want to store my receipts).

Filling out an expense report is about as basic an exercise as you could expect to do. It’s somewhere between downright impossible to do on an iPad and simply maddening. Neither is a good place for a tool of this caliber to be positioning itself, and it is sad that Apple continues to make something that should be so simple so difficult. Exactly the opposite of what Apple is supposed to excel at.

That has been my single biggest gripe. With the iPAd you can:

• do it easier
• do it the same
• bend over backwards to do it
• can't do it at all

So many common tasks (common for me) fall into the latter two categories.
It is predominately a software limitation (OS).
I would like to use the iPad, however a hybrid device works best for me.

 

[groadyho]

M

except this is asanine.

you're assumption for Camera's for example is that the iPad should be the centre / focus of the workflow and that everything else is a peripheral that should be tossed to meet the iPad's limitations.

This is backwards. Cameras, especially profesional cameras can cost thousands of dollars. Sometimes Tens of thousands. That can last years if not decades.

your mindset is "Apple doesn't want to support them, so throw out your camera and rebuy everything that works with the new iPad Pro".

this is the big limitation. Apple is trying to tell users that this new iPad can replace their laptops. While there are fundamental limitations that Apple have purposely injected into their software/iOS in order to limit that. There is absolutely zero reason why iOS cannot read from a standard USB based camera, or a standard USB hard drive. none. Zero. There is zero technical hardware limitation in these devices. this is purely intentional by Apple for absolutely zero reasons other than someone in their offices was looking at a spreadsheet, and a line item probably showed they can earn more money by limiting 3rd party peripherals that worked

in the case of storage and external storage devices, Apple wants you to buy their internal upgrades. Not use external storage options. This is because the margins on the upgrades are massive from Apple. They don't want you using a 3rd party camera, they want you using your iDevice and importing everything trhough their cloud, so they can sell you more cloud storage.. They don't want you buying a $5 cheap mouse for precision input. They want you buying the $129 stylus.

this iPad pro is such a damn nice tablet, with great potential for a 2-in-1 device. it could easily be their "low cost" computer, even at the current price point. But for some reason, iOS limitations still plague it and Apple will not budge on that.

My thoughts exactly, the IPP should adapt to you, the user, not the other way around.

 

[ipponrg]

It’s a touchy subject for many on here, I get that, but there’s nothing ignorant about seeing that the iPad has a bright future. You don’t feel on any level that it’s reminiscent of the early OS X days?

We definitely don't see things eye to eye here. The iPad is trying to fill a strange niche despite mobile phones becoming more ubiquitous in usage and laptops getting thinner/lighter and more portable.

When I'm playing games or browsing the net at home, I just pull out my iPhone X.
When I need to work with FCP X, Yelp reading with multiple tabs, multi-tasking windows, coding something, do terminal work, etc, I pull out my MBP.

An iPad (and I own 2) has very limited use here. It can't fill my laptop behaviors, and it's superfluous to replace the iPhone X. It can however be a complement to an existing setup, which was the original reason I bought the iPads in the first place. I stopped using them though because the iPhone screens got bigger.

I think the bright future narrative you keep pursuing is heavily limited by the OS, form factor, and the user experience. I don't see how this relates to early OSX days at all since this is still using iOS.

 

[Defthand]

Split screen and slide over are just two important examples that improve productivity on an iPad. Screen real estate is a big deal on a tablet. Pencil support is also very important to some people for productivity and their workflows.

Sorry, the proposition that an iPhone = iPP just because they share the same OS is just as ridiculous as saying an iMac = Macbook. Different tools for different purposes.

Splitscreen multitasking together with slide over, pip(these 3 at the same time) , drag and drop, horizontal and vertical home screen and faceid?

Your observation illustrates why the iPad is also no equal to the desktop for productivity. Everything you listed is related to ergonomics—not computing abilities. So yes, an iPhone is able to achieve the same end as an iPad, and a MacBook is able to achieve the same end as an iMac—ignoring specialized softwares that require exceptional hardware. However, the UI efficiency is not the same among devices. Touch input is still less robust than hardware inputs. Nonetheless, Apple is ignoring this difference and only comparing processor abilities.

The latest iPhone’s hardware is as robust as the iPad. Considering the limited uses that Joe Public would use an iPad for, he could accomplish the same with an iPhone. He just wouldn’t have the ergonomic advantages of a larger device.

 

[Detnator]

That is NOT what Apple is stating. Apple is stating that in addition to an onscreen keyboard, the keyboard also acts as a trackpad. It's very clear, unambiguous English. They are marketing the fact that the onscreen keyboard has a track pad incorporated into it, presumably because they think this is important to some significant group of customers in order to take up space in print to promote it.

And who are you to tell me what I "don't get"? The point is that Apple thinks it's important enough to market an onscreen keyboard as having a trackpad, but the trackpad is not important enough to add to the attached keyboard when the onscreen display is removed from the iPad while the physical keyboard is in use with it. Period. Why advertise the presence of a trackpad in a virtual situation, yet not address the issue in a physical one? You can cling to whatever points you think are relevant, it certainly doesn't make them correct. There is a clear discrepancy in Apple's intent, and marketing, and serious contradictions between their iPad and MacBook messaging.

You’re right. I misread the keyboard bit and so I apologize.

However I think you’re clutching at straws if you’re arguing that as a reason the iPP doesn’t qualify as a computer. If you’re not arguing that and only pointing out issues with their marketing then fair enough. To that I’d only say: name any company on earth that doesn’t spin marketing to suit their sales intents. It’s hardly a sin.

Otherwise, see my post above about tasks suited to different types of devices. That’s the bottom line.

 

[trifid]

except this is asanine.

you're assumption for Camera's for example is that the iPad should be the centre / focus of the workflow and that everything else is a peripheral that should be tossed to meet the iPad's limitations.

This is backwards. Cameras, especially profesional cameras can cost thousands of dollars. Sometimes Tens of thousands. That can last years if not decades.

your mindset is "Apple doesn't want to support them, so throw out your camera and rebuy everything that works with the new iPad Pro".

this is the big limitation. Apple is trying to tell users that this new iPad can replace their laptops. While there are fundamental limitations that Apple have purposely injected into their software/iOS in order to limit that. There is absolutely zero reason why iOS cannot read from a standard USB based camera, or a standard USB hard drive. none. Zero. There is zero technical hardware limitation in these devices. this is purely intentional by Apple for absolutely zero reasons other than someone in their offices was looking at a spreadsheet, and a line item probably showed they can earn more money by limiting 3rd party peripherals that worked

in the case of storage and external storage devices, Apple wants you to buy their internal upgrades. Not use external storage options. This is because the margins on the upgrades are massive from Apple. They don't want you using a 3rd party camera, they want you using your iDevice and importing everything trhough their cloud, so they can sell you more cloud storage.. They don't want you buying a $5 cheap mouse for precision input. They want you buying the $129 stylus.

this iPad pro is such a damn nice tablet, with great potential for a 2-in-1 device. it could easily be their "low cost" computer, even at the current price point. But for some reason, iOS limitations still plague it and Apple will not budge on that.

I can only think of one reason for the artificial storage limitation for the past 7 years: greed. There is an extreme amount of profit in getting people to upgrade to higher built-in storage on iDevices when there is no other choice.

 

[DNichter]

except this is asanine.

you're assumption for Camera's for example is that the iPad should be the centre / focus of the workflow and that everything else is a peripheral that should be tossed to meet the iPad's limitations.

This is backwards. Cameras, especially profesional cameras can cost thousands of dollars. Sometimes Tens of thousands. That can last years if not decades.

your mindset is "Apple doesn't want to support them, so throw out your camera and rebuy everything that works with the new iPad Pro".

this is the big limitation. Apple is trying to tell users that this new iPad can replace their laptops. While there are fundamental limitations that Apple have purposely injected into their software/iOS in order to limit that. There is absolutely zero reason why iOS cannot read from a standard USB based camera, or a standard USB hard drive. none. Zero. There is zero technical hardware limitation in these devices. this is purely intentional by Apple for absolutely zero reasons other than someone in their offices was looking at a spreadsheet, and a line item probably showed they can earn more money by limiting 3rd party peripherals that worked

in the case of storage and external storage devices, Apple wants you to buy their internal upgrades. Not use external storage options. This is because the margins on the upgrades are massive from Apple. They don't want you using a 3rd party camera, they want you using your iDevice and importing everything trhough their cloud, so they can sell you more cloud storage.. They don't want you buying a $5 cheap mouse for precision input. They want you buying the $129 stylus.

this iPad pro is such a damn nice tablet, with great potential for a 2-in-1 device. it could easily be their "low cost" computer, even at the current price point. But for some reason, iOS limitations still plague it and Apple will not budge on that.

I didn’t say that at all. I said to buy a $6 cable and $26 flash drive if you want to import and export photos to and from your iPad Pro. No one said anything about throwing out cameras. That’s quite the reach ya got there.

 

[LordVic]

I didn’t say that at all. I said to buy a $6 cable and $26 flash drive if you want to import and export photos to and from your iPad Pro. No one said anything about throwing out cameras. That’s quite the reach ya got there.

the only device that allows import is a USB-C based card reader. You cannot plug the camera directly in either. Nor can you plug in most existing USB storage devices.

All due to artificial software limitations. this is what you're not addressing in your desire to defend anything Apple. Apple has the hardware to do everything we're saying. They are purposely choosing to block it for profit / money reasons.

THIS is the crutch of the issue that you refuse to aknowledge. There is no technical reason for anyone to need to go out and buy new equipment at all other than potentially a USB-C cable. if I used a USB-C cable, i should be able to use any storage device I want, wether its my camera, a USB drive, or a card reader. Not be limited to ONLY the devices apple says.

 

[DNichter]

We definitely don't see things eye to eye here. The iPad is trying to fill a strange niche despite mobile phones becoming more ubiquitous in usage and laptops getting thinner/lighter and more portable.

When I'm playing games or browsing the net at home, I just pull out my iPhone X.
When I need to work with FCP X, Yelp reading with multiple tabs, multi-tasking windows, coding something, do terminal work, etc, I pull out my MBP.

An iPad (and I own 2) has very limited use here. It can't fill my laptop behaviors, and it's superfluous to replace the iPhone X. It can however be a complement to an existing setup, which was the original reason I bought the iPads in the first place. I stopped using them though because the iPhone screens got bigger.

I think the bright future narrative you keep pursuing is heavily limited by the OS, form factor, and the user experience. I don't see how this relates to early OSX days at all since this is still using iOS.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with you using your devices as your dscribe. The issue, I think, is that people are trying to use an iPad like a Mac, instead of just using it as an iPad. I see the future as bright because I agree, there are current limitations to iOS, but Apple will slowly remove these limitations by adding more and more functionality to iOS. It reminds me of early (for me) OS X days because every year we were introduced to new features and ways to us the OS. I see the same thing with iPad over the next 3-5. I’m okay with us disagreeing ultimately though. You’re rational in your discussion and I respect that.
[doublepost=1542821578][/doublepost]

the only device that allows import is a USB-C based card reader. You cannot plug the camera directly in either. Nor can you plug in most existing USB storage devices.

All due to artificial software limitations. this is what you're not addressing in your desire to defend anything Apple. Apple has the hardware to do everything we're saying. They are purposely choosing to block it for profit / money reasons.

THIS is the crutch of the issue that you refuse to aknowledge. There is no technical reason for anyone to need to go out and buy new equipment at all other than potentially a USB-C cable. if I used a USB-C cable, i should be able to use any storage device I want, wether its my camera, a USB drive, or a card reader. Not be limited to ONLY the devices apple says.

It depends what port your camera has, but there are plenty of cables that can connect to the iPad Pro for importing photos. I’d suggest doing a quick search and you can see that.

 

[charlituna]

Speaking of attitudes........

I refuse to apologize for reminding folks that they are not a universal voice. Get used to it or find a way to block me. I really don’t care which
[doublepost=1542821922][/doublepost]

They sell good $200 Android phones, people. $200
Apple is doooomed with Timmy at the helm. Doomed.

Oh please. Folks have been saying Apple is doomed with Tim for years and not only has it not happened, the company is doing better than it was with Steve.

 

[groadyho]

In other news Mac drops 24% down to 7.9% market share. IPad lives!?

 

[LordVic]

It depends what port your camera has, but there are plenty of cables that can connect to the iPad Pro for importing photos. I’d suggest doing a quick search and you can see that.

Dude stop. it's clear you're in over your head talking about these technologies.

The port shape is irrelevant to the communications protocol. Regardless of what port the device has, whether it's USB-A, USB-C, USB-B, Micro, Mini, etc. They all carry USB protocol data. The USB protocol itself is also completely backwards compatible. a USB-3.1 port will support USB-1.1, 2, 3 and 3.1.

So, you've got a USB-3.1 based USB-C port on your laptop/tablet. And you are trying to plug it into any USB compatible device. As long as the software on your computer/tablet supports USB, it wll read and detect that a device is there and load appropriate drivers to support that use.

in the case of USB mass storage, these drivers have been found in basically every single OS since day 1. They even exist in iOS as you're able to attach certain card readers.

the limitation on what devices are being detected and usable is completely independant on the plug and usb version in question and is 100% entirely dependant on the operating system's functionality. And in the case of iOS, Apple has intentionally blocked a lot of it's use. I've looked it up for example, my Camera is a 40D by canon that uses mini-USB with the USB-2.0 Standard. I have been able to plug it into any compute device that supports USB and have it detect as a mass storage device for offloading of my photos.

So far by my research (and it might be wrong as it's still early), my camera will NOT be detected by iOS. meaning i have to buy a Compact Flash adapter... which adds yet another dongle to my bag when i've already got USB-C to USB-Mini adapter.

 

[robbyx]

But Apple already has added a virtual trackpad to the onscreen keyboard, and has even touted it on their website as a compelling feature to purchase it. So your argument is moot.

You clearly don't understand how trackpads and mice work. Apple's virtual trackpad is a far cry from a real trackpad. It's essentially a better way to select text. That's all. Furthermore, the user still touches the screen, interacting directly with the device. There is no pointer to move around the screen. Etc.

Try again.

I expect some form of trackpad support here soon, but I think they want it to be handled a little differently than we are used to. My guess is that you can use an iPhone as a trackpad, or when you connect an iPad to an external screen, it mirrors and turns into a full keyboard and trackpad combo. Something like that, but it will only be available within productivity apps.

Maybe if Samsung or Google made the iPad, but that sounds so clumsy and completely un-iPad-like.

Why don't you just buy a Mac?

We can all go back and forth on whether or not iPad is a viable alternative to a Mac, but I think everyone agrees that the iPad could be much more than it is today. Apple needs to take this to heart and really start to transform the iPad into the Mac replacement it should be. Trackpad support, storage support, windowed or tabbed apps, external display support, dock support, and better Files app are just a few ways they could instantly improve the experience for a lot of people. I want an iPad that I can dock and have a larger screen experience that incorporates all of these things. Jobs had this vision years ago and if they really want to transform computing again, this is the way to go. The potential is much greater than even the Mac.

And why does the Mac need to be replaced? Look at your list of requests. You should just buy a Mac and use a real computer if that's what you need. People like you basically want Apple to turn the iPad into a Mac. What's the point of that when the Mac already exists? The iPad has a LONG way to go before it could replace a proper desktop. The features you cite are just the tip of the iceberg really. You missed a huge one too. Multiple windows. Split screen doesn't cut it. By the time they make all of these changes to iOS, the iPad won't be the iPad. If you really need a mouse and an external display, you need a real computer, so buy a Mac.

 

[Mainsail]

Your observation illustrates why the iPad is also no equal to the desktop for productivity. Everything you listed is related to ergonomics—not computing abilities. So yes, an iPhone is able to achieve the same end as an iPad, and a MacBook is able to achieve the same end as an iMac—ignoring specialized softwares that require exceptional hardware. However, the UI efficiency is not the same among devices. Touch input is still less robust than hardware inputs. Nonetheless, Apple is ignoring this difference and only comparing processor abilities.

The latest iPhone’s hardware is as robust as the iPad. Considering the limited uses that Joe Public would use an iPad for, he could accomplish the same with an iPhone. He just wouldn’t have the ergonomic advantages of a larger device.

Well, just as a typical example, I sincerely doubt that Joe Public would write a 10 page essay or report on an iPhone. With a BT keyboard, it is a breeze to do this on an iPad. I know. I have done it. I consider writing a memo or report to be a pretty typical use for Joe Public. You can drag and drop photos, use split screen, access the floating dock, and take advantage of the larger screen.....not rocket Science.

I was at the Apple store the other day and started talking to an elderly couple. They have an older iPad (their only computer) with a BT Keyboard and were considering upgrading to the Pro.....his eyes are bad, so was interested on the 12.9 inch display. Honestly, I don’t think they need the computing power. Anyway, they write letters and emails to their family all the time.....long ones. I can’t imagine them doing this on an iPhone.

 

[Mac 128]

Luckily they don’t want to replace your laptop.

Many people (including you) use a computer for tasks that are suited to a laptop computer. Those people should use a laptop computer.

Other people use a computer for tasks that are well suited to a tablet computer. Those people should use a tablet computer.

Why don’t people here understand this: Apple isn’t trying to sell this to people who use laptops for tasks suited to laptops. Apple is trying to sell this to people who use laptops for tasks better suited to a tablet but haven’t been able to until recently. That market is huge.

That’s common sense.

Then why does Apple make a point of touting the fact the iPad has a built-in trackpad? Why does Apple even sell a detachable keyboard? They should have just stayed out of the market and let third party companies offer these accessories that marginalize the iPad experience, and remained pure of mission. Instead Apple seems to be endorsing this use directly, by both encouraging and marketing it. Clearly there are enough people who find a virtual trackpad and an external keyboard important enough to build their own in order to make the iPad both more attractive, and cut themselves in on the action -- which must be significant for them to bother.

You clearly don't understand how trackpads and mice work. Apple's virtual trackpad is a far cry from a real trackpad. It's essentially a better way to select text. That's all. Furthermore, the user still touches the screen, interacting directly with the device. There is no pointer to move around the screen. Etc.

Try again.

Based on your narrative, clearly it's Apple that doesn't understand how a trackpad works, since they're the one making the claim on their website, not me.

 

[zhenya]

And why does the Mac need to be replaced? Look at your list of requests. You should just buy a Mac and use a real computer if that's what you need. People like you basically want Apple to turn the iPad into a Mac. What's the point of that when the Mac already exists? The iPad has a LONG way to go before it could replace a proper desktop. The features you cite are just the tip of the iceberg really. You missed a huge one too. Multiple windows. Split screen doesn't cut it. By the time they make all of these changes to iOS, the iPad won't be the iPad. If you really need a mouse and an external display, you need a real computer, so buy a Mac.

There is a lot of things that could be massively improved on the iPad that would only enhance the device, not subtract from. Trackpad support (or at the very least text selection tools that work), proper file management, real multi-window environment, all of that is just basic functionality. See my earlier post in this thread with a real-world example. Due to the ridiculous limitations of current iOS it’s somewhere between maddening and downright impossible to do the most basic of text editing and file management tasks.

 

[DNichter]

Dude stop. it's clear you're in over your head talking about these technologies.

The port shape is irrelevant to the communications protocol. Regardless of what port the device has, whether it's USB-A, USB-C, USB-B, Micro, Mini, etc. They all carry USB protocol data. The USB protocol itself is also completely backwards compatible. a USB-3.1 port will support USB-1.1, 2, 3 and 3.1.

So, you've got a USB-3.1 based USB-C port on your laptop/tablet. And you are trying to plug it into any USB compatible device. As long as the software on your computer/tablet supports USB, it wll read and detect that a device is there and load appropriate drivers to support that use.

in the case of USB mass storage, these drivers have been found in basically every single OS since day 1. They even exist in iOS as you're able to attach certain card readers.

the limitation on what devices are being detected and usable is completely independant on the plug and usb version in question and is 100% entirely dependant on the operating system's functionality. And in the case of iOS, Apple has intentionally blocked a lot of it's use. I've looked it up for example, my Camera is a 40D by canon that uses mini-USB with the USB-2.0 Standard. I have been able to plug it into any compute device that supports USB and have it detect as a mass storage device for offloading of my photos.

So far by my research (and it might be wrong as it's still early), my camera will NOT be detected by iOS. meaning i have to buy a Compact Flash adapter... which adds yet another dongle to my bag when i've already got USB-C to USB-Mini adapter.

Not over my head at all. You can import photos to the new iPad Pro through many different ways, such as cables, SD card readers, or adaptors. If you want to use an iPad Pro to do this (use what you prefer), you can. That’s all I’m saying.
[doublepost=1542826654][/doublepost]

You clearly don't understand how trackpads and mice work. Apple's virtual trackpad is a far cry from a real trackpad. It's essentially a better way to select text. That's all. Furthermore, the user still touches the screen, interacting directly with the device. There is no pointer to move around the screen. Etc.

Try again.


Maybe if Samsung or Google made the iPad, but that sounds so clumsy and completely un-iPad-like.

Why don't you just buy a Mac?



And why does the Mac need to be replaced? Look at your list of requests. You should just buy a Mac and use a real computer if that's what you need. People like you basically want Apple to turn the iPad into a Mac. What's the point of that when the Mac already exists? The iPad has a LONG way to go before it could replace a proper desktop. The features you cite are just the tip of the iceberg really. You missed a huge one too. Multiple windows. Split screen doesn't cut it. By the time they make all of these changes to iOS, the iPad won't be the iPad. If you really need a mouse and an external display, you need a real computer, so buy a Mac.

Wirelessly connecting to an iPad or external monitor sounds clumsy? Haha alright. I wouldn’t buy a Mac because I prefer iOS to macOS.

 

[robbyx]

Then why does Apple make a point of touting the fact the iPad has a built-in trackpad?

Because it does. It's a feature. What's your point?

Why does Apple even sell a detachable keyboard?

Because the accessory business is good money.

They should have just stayed out of the market and let third party companies offer these accessories that marginalize the iPad experience.

Who said anything about these accessories marginalizing the iPad experience? A detachable keyboard is a great addition and completely in line with the iPad experience.

Instead Apple seems to be endorsing this use, by both encouraging and marketing it.

And why shouldn't they?

Clearly there are enough people who find a virtual trackpad and an external keyboard important enough to build their own in order to make the iPad both more attractive, and cut themselves in on the action -- which must be significant for them to bother.

Again, what's your point?

The iPad's trackpad feature is nothing like a Mac trackpad. Why? Because there's no cursor. There's no on-screen pointer. The user interacts with the device by direct contact. One can argue that the Pencil breaks the rule, but I'd argue that the Pencil is simply an extension of the touch interface. The user still touches the screen. That's the point.

When people argue for trackpad/mouse support, they're not thinking this through. Apple designed iOS from day one to be a touch interface, not a pointer-based interface that relies on the user manipulating an on-screen cursor via another piece of hardware. That's the old way. Interacting directly with our devices is the new way. I personally don't see them wavering from that.

What they've done with the iPad trackpad is take a concept that is already familiar to many users and apply it very specifically for one function: better text selection. That's all. They will no doubt continue to try new things and perhaps break some of their own rules in the process, but I have a very hard time seeing them adding mouse/trackpad support like we see on today's desktop OSes.

Based on your narrative, clearly it's Apple that doesn't understand how a trackpad works, since they're the one making the claim on their website, not me.

Give it a rest. The iPad trackpad is nothing like a desktop OS trackpad. Apple isn't wrong to call it a trackpad. It works like a trackpad, something users already understand. But it does one thing. And there is no cursor. And the user is touching the screen, not using a device off to the side that controls a pointer on the screen.
[doublepost=1542827408][/doublepost]

Not over my head at all. You can import photos to the new iPad Pro through many different ways, such as cables, SD card readers, or adaptors. If you want to use an iPad Pro to do this (use what you prefer), you can. That’s all I’m saying.
[doublepost=1542826654][/doublepost]

Wirelessly connecting to an iPad or external monitor sounds clumsy? Haha alright. I wouldn’t buy a Mac because I prefer iOS to macOS.

But you want them to change iOS to essentially give you the features you can have today on a Mac? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And yes, it does sound clumsy. Not to mention completely un-Apple. In the scenario you describe, where the iPad turns into a virtual keyboard and the iPhone turns into a trackpad, just how does one interact with the device? Do we now have a cursor on our screen...like on a Mac today??? Are you even thinking this stuff through? Apple designed iOS to be a touch OS. The user interacts directly with the technology. It's more "personal". They aren't going to do a 180 and add a mouse and have the user manipulate a cursor on the screen.
[doublepost=1542828104][/doublepost]

There is a lot of things that could be massively improved on the iPad that would only enhance the device, not subtract from. Trackpad support (or at the very least text selection tools that work), proper file management, real multi-window environment, all of that is just basic functionality. See my earlier post in this thread with a real-world example. Due to the ridiculous limitations of current iOS it’s somewhere between maddening and downright impossible to do the most basic of text editing and file management tasks.

The point is, when you add all of that stuff, you have a Mac. So what's the point? I won't argue that iOS is very limited, but that's by design. If it's too limited, you need a Mac. I don't think Apple will ever allow direct access to the file system. A real multi-window environment, like on today's desktops? Forget it. That's not their vision for the device.

I hate when people bring up Jobs, but he made it very clear that he didn't see the desktop computer going away. He compared desktops to trucks. For certain tasks you will always need a truck. There are many things I prefer to do on my iPad, just as there are many things I simply cannot do. For those I need a desktop computer. If you add all of these desktop features to the iPad, you no longer have an iPad. Apple will continue to test the boundaries no doubt, but I don't see them making fundamental changes like layering a pointer-based UI on top of the touch UI, or opening up the file system, or adding multi-window functionality like we have on today's desktops.

 

[kingtj]

OMG another IT person trying to explain why an iPad won’t serve his computer needs.

No. It’s not a computer replacement for you and they’re not even remotely trying to suggest it is. And that’s exactly why Apple is still making Macs and proved last month that they’re still committed to that.

How can you respond to this ad and article as if you seriously think you’re the target market for this ad??

Good grief.

I can respond to it intelligently BECAUSE I've worked in I.T. for so long and am quite familiar with how literally thousands of people have used their computers over the years, as I've assisted them with upgrading, fixing problems, and questions about using them!

Yes, Apple is still making Macs, but the message to the vast majority of buyers is, "We're working as hard as we can to move you over to the iPad, along with your iPhone and Apple Watch as all you need. These computers are just here because a small percentage of stubborn people who make a lot of our content won't switch yet!"

I mean, look ... I don't expect 99% of people to ever care that they can't plug in to wired Ethernet to get an Enterprise Cisco switch configured. BUT, you might be surprised how often someone runs into a need for the capability that they never anticipated. I remember a couple years ago, for example? A bunch of people from my company were on a business trip out in Las Vegas. The hotel we all stayed at told everyone they had free wi-fi (with a paid option to upgrade to faster speeds). Well, by the end of the first day, our department was harassed by dozens of people because the wi-fi was so slow, it was nearly unusable, and it kept logging people out if they tried to use it on their mobile device after signing in initially on their laptop. The solution turned out to be giving some of them spare Ethernet patch cords we had with us and letting them plug into RJ45 ports on the wall, under their desks in the rooms. Then, they had full, unlimited access to a broadband network without any more hassles. Lots of people learned the value of wired Ethernet that week!

 

[dk001]

And yes, it does sound clumsy. Not to mention completely un-Apple. In the scenario you describe, where the iPad turns into a virtual keyboard and the iPhone turns into a trackpad, just how does one interact with the device? Do we now have a cursor on our screen...like on a Mac today??? Are you even thinking this stuff through? Apple designed iOS to be a touch OS. The user interacts directly with the technology. It's more "personal". They aren't going to do a 180 and add a mouse and have the user manipulate a cursor on the screen.
.

One thing I would point out after reading your post; by allowing the user to extend the iPad to an external monitor, you need to have something on the external monitor to indicate the point of interaction (finger/pencil). That apparently does not exist.
[doublepost=1542833140][/doublepost]Many folks are looking at the iPad Pro as Apple's version of the Surface Pro. No so much from an OS perspective, rather from a usability aspect. Myself included.

 

[DNichter]

Because it does. It's a feature. What's your point?



Because the accessory business is good money.



Who said anything about these accessories marginalizing the iPad experience? A detachable keyboard is a great addition and completely in line with the iPad experience.



And why shouldn't they?



Again, what's your point?

The iPad's trackpad feature is nothing like a Mac trackpad. Why? Because there's no cursor. There's no on-screen pointer. The user interacts with the device by direct contact. One can argue that the Pencil breaks the rule, but I'd argue that the Pencil is simply an extension of the touch interface. The user still touches the screen. That's the point.

When people argue for trackpad/mouse support, they're not thinking this through. Apple designed iOS from day one to be a touch interface, not a pointer-based interface that relies on the user manipulating an on-screen cursor via another piece of hardware. That's the old way. Interacting directly with our devices is the new way. I personally don't see them wavering from that.

What they've done with the iPad trackpad is take a concept that is already familiar to many users and apply it very specifically for one function: better text selection. That's all. They will no doubt continue to try new things and perhaps break some of their own rules in the process, but I have a very hard time seeing them adding mouse/trackpad support like we see on today's desktop OSes.



Give it a rest. The iPad trackpad is nothing like a desktop OS trackpad. Apple isn't wrong to call it a trackpad. It works like a trackpad, something users already understand. But it does one thing. And there is no cursor. And the user is touching the screen, not using a device off to the side that controls a pointer on the screen.
[doublepost=1542827408][/doublepost]

But you want them to change iOS to essentially give you the features you can have today on a Mac? Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And yes, it does sound clumsy. Not to mention completely un-Apple. In the scenario you describe, where the iPad turns into a virtual keyboard and the iPhone turns into a trackpad, just how does one interact with the device? Do we now have a cursor on our screen...like on a Mac today??? Are you even thinking this stuff through? Apple designed iOS to be a touch OS. The user interacts directly with the technology. It's more "personal". They aren't going to do a 180 and add a mouse and have the user manipulate a cursor on the screen.
[doublepost=1542828104][/doublepost]

The point is, when you add all of that stuff, you have a Mac. So what's the point? I won't argue that iOS is very limited, but that's by design. If it's too limited, you need a Mac. I don't think Apple will ever allow direct access to the file system. A real multi-window environment, like on today's desktops? Forget it. That's not their vision for the device.

I hate when people bring up Jobs, but he made it very clear that he didn't see the desktop computer going away. He compared desktops to trucks. For certain tasks you will always need a truck. There are many things I prefer to do on my iPad, just as there are many things I simply cannot do. For those I need a desktop computer. If you add all of these desktop features to the iPad, you no longer have an iPad. Apple will continue to test the boundaries no doubt, but I don't see them making fundamental changes like layering a pointer-based UI on top of the touch UI, or opening up the file system, or adding multi-window functionality like we have on today's desktops.

No, I want them to continue to add productivity features to iOS. I prefer iOS as is and use it as my primary computer, but it could obviously be improved. Yea, if the iPad or iPhone becomes the trackpad, the external monitor would then be your main screen with a cursor. It’s not all that complicated, but I do agree that it’s not very Apple like. I trust that they can come up with some better ideas than I can. Also, it’s just a discussion about potential ideas. Nothing set in stone here. I wouldn’t get so worked up about it.

 

[Mac 128]

Because it does. It's a feature. What's your point?



Because the accessory business is good money.



Who said anything about these accessories marginalizing the iPad experience? A detachable keyboard is a great addition and completely in line with the iPad experience.



And why shouldn't they?



Again, what's your point?

The iPad's trackpad feature is nothing like a Mac trackpad. Why? Because there's no cursor. There's no on-screen pointer. The user interacts with the device by direct contact. One can argue that the Pencil breaks the rule, but I'd argue that the Pencil is simply an extension of the touch interface. The user still touches the screen. That's the point.

When people argue for trackpad/mouse support, they're not thinking this through. Apple designed iOS from day one to be a touch interface, not a pointer-based interface that relies on the user manipulating an on-screen cursor via another piece of hardware. That's the old way. Interacting directly with our devices is the new way. I personally don't see them wavering from that.

What they've done with the iPad trackpad is take a concept that is already familiar to many users and apply it very specifically for one function: better text selection. That's all. They will no doubt continue to try new things and perhaps break some of their own rules in the process, but I have a very hard time seeing them adding mouse/trackpad support like we see on today's desktop OSes.



Give it a rest. The iPad trackpad is nothing like a desktop OS trackpad. Apple isn't wrong to call it a trackpad. It works like a trackpad, something users already understand. But it does one thing. And there is no cursor. And the user is touching the screen, not using a device off to the side that controls a pointer on the screen.

"Because" is NOT an answer.

Though, it's nice to know you're OK with Apple compromising its principles for money.

If "a detachable keyboard is a great addition and completely in line with the iPad experience", yet adding it eliminates the Trackpad feature Apple is marketing, then that is marginalizing the product. So why not also allow a physical trackpad, even if all it does is what the virtual trackpad does? That sounds like a great addition to the iPad and completely in line with the experience -- since the very same experience is available ON the iPad.

You can rationalize Apple's decisions any way you want, but that doesn't make it correct. Besides, your explanations are vague and contradictory. So no need to reply to me further since I don't agree, and have stated very clearly why. I'm sorry you don't understand my point. But I will not comply with your rude request to "give it a rest", I just won't address you further.

 

[groadyho]

Conclusion: Surfacr Pro wipes floor with Ipad as a computer.
IPad is just a souped up IPhone.
Ty all for your participation.
Have a good thanksgiving All! ~

 

[robbyx]

One thing I would point out after reading your post; by allowing the user to extend the iPad to an external monitor, you need to have something on the external monitor to indicate the point of interaction (finger/pencil). That apparently does not exist.
[doublepost=1542833140][/doublepost]Many folks are looking at the iPad Pro as Apple's version of the Surface Pro. No so much from an OS perspective, rather from a usability aspect. Myself included.

Exactly. That's my point. The iPad was designed from day one to be a touch interface. The user interacts directly with the device. Apple staked everything on this concept. Adding desktop-style trackpad/mouse functionality requires a cursor. It completely changes the whole user experience. I don't think Apple will do that.

Apple has said, repeatedly, that they have no interest in building a Surface-style device. What you and other folks want is immaterial, no offense. Don't expect Apple to turn the iPad Pro into a Surface. If that's what you want, buy a Surface.
[doublepost=1542840951][/doublepost]

"Because" is NOT an answer.

Though, it's nice to know you're OK with Apple compromising its principles for money.

If "a detachable keyboard is a great addition and completely in line with the iPad experience", yet adding it eliminates the Trackpad feature Apple is marketing, then that is marginalizing the product. So why not also allow a physical trackpad, even if all it does is what the virtual trackpad does? That sounds like a great addition to the iPad and completely in line with the experience -- since the very same experience is available ON the iPad.

You can rationalize Apple's decisions any way you want, but that doesn't make it correct. Besides, your explanations are vague and contradictory. So no need to reply to me further since I don't agree, and have stated very clearly why. I'm sorry you don't understand my point. But I will not comply with your rude request to "give it a rest", I just won't address you further.

You need to work on your reading comprehension. I made myself very clear. I also never said Apple was compromising principles for money. You're going in circles. The iPad does not have a cursor. Adding a trackpad/mouse adds a cursor. That completely changes the whole iPad experience. Apple has staked everything on touch. They aren't going to do a U-turn and add a cursor to the iPad. My argument is really quite easy to understand. I'm sorry if it's over your head, but I can't simplify it any further.

Also, the virtual "trackpad" Apple advertises for iOS is nothing like a traditional trackpad/mouse. Comparing the two is pointless. When people talk about adding a mouse/trackpad to iOS, they are talking about adding a cursor.

[doublepost=1542841638][/doublepost]

No, I want them to continue to add productivity features to iOS. I prefer iOS as is and use it as my primary computer, but it could obviously be improved. Yea, if the iPad or iPhone becomes the trackpad, the external monitor would then be your main screen with a cursor. It’s not all that complicated, but I do agree that it’s not very Apple like. I trust that they can come up with some better ideas than I can. Also, it’s just a discussion about potential ideas. Nothing set in stone here. I wouldn’t get so worked up about it.

The problem with an external screen becoming your main screen is that it completely breaks the touch UI. Now we need a cursor. Now it works just like a Mac or PC. None of that sounds very Apple-like to me.

Of course nothing is set in stone. The only reason people are here is to debate, argue, share experiences, etc. None of us knows what Apple is up to. But we can read the tea leaves. And I think you're way off base. As soon as you add a cursor to the iPad, you fundamentally change the device. I think that's highly unlikely to happen. Personally I use different devices for different purposes. The last thing I see Apple doing is turning the iPad into a quasi-desktop computer. The iPad's strength is that it's NOT that kind of device.

I could see them adding mouse/trackpad support for very specific tasks, but I don't ever see a cursor floating around on the iPad screen. Now that Photoshop is on the iPad, a mouse for editing makes sense. But even that might be a bridge too far for them. For now I think the Pencil is their answer. It's still touch. It's essentially an extension of the user's finger. There's no cursor. And it's very precise, like a mouse.