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Apple Highlights Women's Health Study Data to Help 'Destigmatize Menstruation'
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'Read the article' must be some kind of cult-ish response.
Normally when someone's passionate about a subject, or has a strong opinion, not only do they have the ability to express it - they would love to, it would be a pleasure for them to enlighten others rather than be dismissive.
its weird that all I'm getting is NPC like re-directs to CBS News and Reuters.
like 'do your research' - has that ever been a convincing point in the history of arguing about, ANYTHING?
The CBS news article starts off with a level of sincerity with a pun: "The BLOODY truth about getting your period in America"
its such a grave issue, that to lighten the mood it has to start off with a clickbait pun.
They then unsarcastically and completely seriously make the point that millions of women have 'period poverty.' I can't make this up.
I guess I really have to indulge the argument, huh?
All I can say is I'm so sorry so many women suffer from poverty of... their period. Of all socioeconomic types. How will they ever rise above?
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Would you join a book discussion without having read the book?
Are you waiting for somebody to make a Cliff’s notes and post it here to save you the time of reading the article(s)?
It's not really the same. You can express a view point, then cite sources to back it up. Especially surrounding a topic that has been brought to the table independent of the source. The topic isn't CBS News, the topic is 'stigmatization of menstruation' and to side step leads me to believe you don't really want to talk about it, the subject or the article surrounding the subject.
You don't just use sources as your argument. Those are sources, not arguments. You make the arguments.
URL regurgitation is not a discussion.
And I just want to confirm, the primary source of evidence of stigmas of menstruation is that the article asserts millions of WOMEN have 'period poverty.' Not even young girls, but WOMEN - people who have reached adulthood (and later bundles them in with 'girls' as if there is no distinction)
Are you making an identical claim?
Or do you have anything else to contribute to the talk? It appears not.
Atheist goes up to Jew:
Athiest: “prove to me God exists.”
Jew: “no, you prove to me he does NOT exist!”
Athiest: lol
Actually, a number of people in this thread ARE being completely dismissive of it.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
The links that I (read, then) placed in my second(?) post contain evidence to suggest that this is a real issue, not just in America but around the world.
Some people are of the "opinion" that they can refuse to grease the squeaky wheel because the other three aren't squeaking. To them, the squeaky wheel is just "whining".
Again, I'm just glad Apple is doing something about this besides complaining. And DESPITE the complaining they probably knew would come.
These are tools, after all. Use the ones you need and apply to your situation. Ignore the rest.
Agree to disagree. These aren't just tools, without a purpose. They are tools with explicit intent. Not exclusively medicinal/health related, but societal as well. Again, explicitly not through extrapolation or pontification.
The intent is quite literally to 'de-stigmatize menstruation' as if to suggest menstruation is heavily stigmatized in society, as if anyone who menstruates can now feel a victim (or to quote CBS News, and not my words, is undergoing 'period poverty'), from a young age to even elderly age (since it's stated it includes women in the description, with girls, and often without- and even though the studies themselves involve people who are at least 18 and menstruated once, some inconsistencies there - if a girl suffers 'stigmatization of menstruation' but isn't 18, even if she has menstruated, how can that be? Or how can these studies help? I digress there too). To feel isolated even from other women, many of whom aren't any more or less unique than them that go through the same exact thing. In 2021, Keeping you down is empowerment. Feeling crippled by the judgment of others, that may or may not be there, and the latest identity driven impositions superimposed and now swallowed whole as an intrinsic part of your lifestyle and self :
if it was just to provide data for those who might want data, or feel comfort in that going through changes in their life, fine. Zero fault there. Hey, even kudos. Nothing wrong with more scientific data, on just about anything. especially if it helps someone somehow.
...but it's not just that. it's to de-stigmatize.
They're being very clear, you're just overlooking the context.
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The initial article posted by MacRumors linked to a page on Apple.com and a study from Harvard. I think if one is replying to a thread surrounding a news article, that one would at least read those items before commenting. It is not I who posted the Harvard study, it was in the MR news story related to this discussion.
From that study:
That summary (quoted from the study) is a pretty good Cliff’s notes version of the article you’re supposedly discussing. Other articles gave facts about how products like tampons and pads are an extra expense for women below the poverty line, and draw attention to the fact that food stamps, medicaid, and other government programs for the poor do not address that expense.
And other articles point out worse discrimination against women in other countries, especially when they are menstruating. Apple is a multi-national company that sells products in those countries, so the state of these countries should be part of the discussion as well.
You say it isn’t a problem, offering no evidence but your personal opinion. Others claim it is a problem, providing links to data showing evidence of the problem. I think that posters providing evidence are far more credible than those simply expressing their personal opinion on the matter.
All that said: such a feature has no downside for those who don’t need it, so I’m not sure where all this outrage is coming from. If you don’t want it on your watch, maybe you could try Apple_roberts’ advice:
Not a single statement you made is evidence of a stigmatization of menstruation.
Please tell me you too can observe that?
You're talking a lot about menstruation itself and variables related to that, and how Harvard studies are incredible, and I will grant you that you did say all that, and some people's budgets which can extend to other countries, can't allow for hygiene products (products that would mitigate embarrassment and destruction of clothes), and that Apple sells products in other countries so they have an invested interest in consumers in other countries as a sidenote, but what does ANY of that have to do with the stigma?
Or how does it address the stigma? Would showing the app to a 'menstruation bigot' solve the stigma?
You're having a debate with yourself at this point, about things I simply didn't argue so I'm not sure what else to say?
How can I respond to your responses of arguments you've imagined I've put forth? I can't. You've asked for the impossible and if that's how you take your W, in this 'debate', go for it. It's all yours.
In your flawed and unsupported opinion, that is.... I guess kicking women out of the village during their period isn’t stigmatizing? Telling women that products for menstruation aren’t necessities of life by refusing to cover them with benefits for the poor? I guess your definition of stigmatization is different than everybody else’s.
Again, you haven’t refuted any evidence. I guess at that point, the only possible way to argue your point is to redefine the English language.
so you're arguing an app with prestigious Harvard study data will eradicate or even tangibly reduce women getting kicked out of the village during their period?
I stand corrected.
The article also states WOMEN IN AMERICA in the damn headline for the CBS News article. And you're over here talking about some unspecified village as evidence of pervasiveness in the West. But that's ok.
At this point in your post you've gone completely off the rails from the discussion but I'll continue:
You say - There is a cost associated with hygiene products. Some can't afford it. Which I've agreed is likely a scenario for some, but not sure what it has to do with a stigma.
A- I didn't establish this standard. I have nothing to do with the hygiene product business.
B- If you wanna get mad, call Tampax. They have a customer service number.
C- not being free isn't a stigma. Food at the grocery store is stigmatizing hunger too, I suppose.
I can't really see on my own, and I have to go to an optometrist to get corrective lenses, but because of that / by logic of not being free, vision is stigmatized too. Is that how this works?
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You want to paint me as insensitive, but you're really just making arguments out of thin air and getting enraged by the flaw in those arguments, you put forth. It's a bizarre strategy but I am entertained I'll admit.
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I do not know what the results of the study will be, although the authors of the study do think they can make an impact. Perhaps they can, perhaps they cannot.
I am glad to see that you finally agree that stigmatization happens and is an issue we should try to fix. If you have a better way to do so other than the one presented by Harvard here, that would be a welcome addition to the discussion.
Not sure where you 'saw' that, your imagination is really quite vivid!
I stood corrected that your new claim was 'the app and its data will change a village, which kicks women out for menstruating'. not that 'stigma of menstruation' is pervasive or even exists in America as it is described you ran wild with that one as you seem to be doing often. I have nothing to say about that because even if true about the village (which I can believe), not sure how this addresses that. Also to get semantical,I would say thats much more emblematic of gender relations in that culture as a whole, more than isolated stigma of menstruating. And I'm not in a position to make any difference there sorry if you felt I could or was some president or philanthropist. Cause I aint.
Anyways though entertaining at this point, this is also a waste of time.
This is about as useful as me forming coherent responses to a post that goes: sdhfjkshfjkhdskfhsidfhsfhk
I can't really speak to what occurs somewhere else, like a village in a remote country, because I have been referring specifically to women in America and their 'period poverty' and the stigmas associated with it, this whole time, just as CBS News and Reuters has.
In some countries, female genital mutiliation is pretty standard. Strongly disagree with it and don't like that. I wouldn't call that a stigma of female genitals, I would re-refer you to it being emblematic of gender relations and cultural norms that may (and in my opinion here) need more examining and reform.
Can't make the argument that I'm pro - that. You want to paint me as insensitive, but I think you're just lost in the arguments I didn't make.
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Hmm...
You admit that does happen. You question whether Harvard can solve it.
As for your other statements, I don’t believe you accurately read my statement nor the articles. Specifically your point:
When it was clearly pointed out that one CAN get money for food stamps. You mention glasses and one CAN get money from Medicaid for that. And yet, one cannot get money from either program for products needed related to menstruation. If one cannot see how this is stigmatizing, one might not be trying very hard... or perhaps they are trying hard... to ignore it.
Can I get free deodorant? If not, its stigmatized. Society wants me to smell.
Can I get rent paid for? If not, it's stigmatized. to have to have a residence of some kind.
Can I get tires paid for when they eventually lose tread or endure a few nails? If not its stigmatized. To be able to go places.
Can I get gas for free? If not its stigmatized.
your argument is because its not free, it's stigmatized. Is heavily flawed. Can't polish a turd of an argument like that.
Who makes these decisions that tampons aren't free? Is it government officials, and of those, do women exist in the government? Or is just some singular group of chauvinistic males pulling the waterfall lever to dry up like Immortan Joe in Mad Max, laughing maniacally at the financial burden it will be over one's life?
Again, have you called Tampax and explained that you're oppressed and need them to mail you a ton of tampons? If so, I'm not holding you back. I love free will.
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I admit somewhere villages probably do act unfavorably towards women. AGAIN, not related to the CBS or Reuters article you are insistent is your argument which is that women have 'period poverty' in the US and there is a stigma in the west.
You get the W, the social justice gold star, the award for most nuanced debater of all time on MacRumors.
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Except that wasn’t my argument. It was that other necessities of life are provided for in government programs for the poor, with this one very notable exclusion that only affects women.
Are men provided free razors and shaving cream too?
Because looking not haggard is often a judgment of society in order to get a job (again I didn't create 'the rules' just relaying it as it appears), which helps get out of poverty. Though it can be some superficial sort of indication or metric of reliability/dependability, when meeting face to face. Not saying everyone in poverty is unemployed either, just saying it's the path to get in a better situation.
Also- If you get a welfare check, or unemployment benefits, you can spend it as you see fit as far as I know. Which could include tampons.
Again, not sure how this all amounts to a stigma, or my other question : who makes these decisions? is it gov officials, and of those is it a singular group of chauvinistic men that just wanted to see women suffer? Or Is there more to it? I don't have the answer to this, and I haven't even really thought about the economic situation of tampons any time recently in my leisure time -- but I would assume there are women in government making this decision as well. Or whomever determines that. That's for you to take up with them, as a completely separate matter than there being a 'social stigma' as in a perception with women who simply menstruate, of which you are referring to most women at that point.
stigma definition is: a mark of disgrace associated with a particular circumstance, quality, or person.
As a mark of disgrace, grocers openly display their tampon products, and many people openly buy them and walk out of the check out aisle with zero shame towards others or the cashier.
It's the opposite of a mark of disgrace to have hygiene products to prevent embarrassment and destruction of clothes so I'm kind of lost. The fact a price is associated with it, because they know its a matter of necessity for most in hierarchy of needs, seems opportunist and ostensibly exploitation rather than stigmatized.
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To go further off the rails, why doesn't Apple pay for the world's supply of tampons for women? They're in a financial position to do so, and many of their customers are women. They are only the richest company in the world. They could do it. Maybe take your gripes up with them too, after getting off the phone with Tampax
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God can’t be proven or disproven. The existence of a stigma can be. I’d say I can’t believe this needs explaining, but in your case I very much can.
Right and I've been looking for all these evil men who have passed judgment at women who have and continue to menstruate, in America, that could lead me to entertain that there is a mainstream stigma or a stigma even worth mentioning, and I haven't come across them.
I tend to think I'd know more about them existing than two flimsy articles, certainly dating back further than early 2019, or in recent memory, or alternatively in the form of seeing or hearing them in real life since I am a male and I do know of males, even friends with some. They must do a great job at coveting their bigotry, while contributing to this godawful stigma that plagues women that could also be resolved by... Apple partnering with Harvard health studies to combat the stigmatization of menstruation with an app. It's rapidly becoming one of the most pressing issues of our times and I for one am happy to see Apple really take the bull by the horns on spearheading this one.
...Who have you been hanging out with? Might want to drop them if they judge you for your biological cycles. Cause that's not in your control, and judgment of that is outright ridiculous.
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Unless you have ever been caught out of the home with your period starting unexpectedly, I don't think you understand the stigma of asking for products.
And for you to say that "girls" don't count and only women do....well, girls who are menstruating ARE women. And some skip school, are forced to go to the nurses office instead of taking care of things quietly in the bathroom, have to talk to male teachers....these are very tramautizing things for adolescents, and they are no less worthy of feminine hygiene products than females over the age of 18.
And for you to say that "girls" don't count and only women do....well, girls who are menstruating ARE women. And some skip school, are forced to go to the nurses office instead of taking care of things quietly in the bathroom, have to talk to male teachers....these are very tramautizing things for adolescents, and they are no less worthy of feminine hygiene products than females over the age of 18.
Not sure how to respond but I'll try. I haven't experienced that, I am a male who does not menstruate, and seriously- that's gotta suck if you have your period and don't have a tampon. The shame and embarrassment, if you experienced that. either-cause you can't afford it financially as someone brought up as a scenario, or simply forgot or rolled the dice for a short window of time and failed. I'm decently empathetic towards people that can't afford tampons that are out there, give them tampons life would be better for them and society if people that can't afford them get them, and certainly people that forgot, and people that miscalculated the window of time. I forget stuff all the time.
not really admittedly AS empathetic to people who can afford them and just feel oppressed by society and proclaim they are, when they buy the latest iPhone and candy and soda and all the rest of it and specifically don't live in poverty, objectively by objective financial measures, and just want free stuff in the name of inequality and sexism
But again - to reel it back in to the original subject -- what's that got to do with the 'stigmatization of menstruation', and how is Apple partnering with Harvard health research study helping you personally overcome the 'stigmatization' in that situation, or even that situation itself?
I genuinely would like to understand. Or how have I offended you in what I've said in the past and/or in relation to your scenario? Because I'm confused.
At no point am I not empathetic towards the shame people feel that menstruate in public without a tampon, when/if that happens, or public shame period. I just don't see what that has to do with this study it overcoming 'the societal stigma of menstruation' and I don't believe one to exist. Don't need to be a jerk if that were to happen to someone, but it can be understood seeing a stranger excrete bodily fluids, is not fun for the observer. In the same way if a male adult stranger urinated his pants while passing you by, it would be socially not looked upon very fondly. Even if he had 12 beers and decided he could not wait one more second. Or even if he had a medical condition he didn't disclose to you, because he's a stranger and you don't know him.
And for full disclosure, not at all equating menstruation to a bro slamming a lot of beers and publicly urinating in his pants or the level of empathy earned for either, one is not in one's control and is biological the other is just being irresponsible and dumb, just saying there are things that aren't socially acceptable in the case of bodily fluids of a stranger being publicly excreted. and you wouldn't say there's a 'stigma of urinating in one's pants' because there isn't. People just don't like bodily fluids of strangers in general. Myself included. Period. Any situation any gender.
Never said that. Not sure what else to say. Not even sure how you could've even imagined that from what I said tbh. This is again a heated response being made, to an argument that I simply never made.
in fact I would argue, if I were to argue anything at all: If you're a child, embarrassment can be much more debilitating and offsetting in the moment than as an adult, no matter the situation, though I'm not psychologist. And though I don't believe in everything turning to some form of victimization as a good thing for society.
When you're an adult, you shouldn't be acting like you're still in grade school on average, emotionally, for most people. I would be a bit concerned if that were the case for that person, if they hadn't matured as a person from grade school to adulthood and beyond.
Again parenting is commendable and this kinda thing seems to fall under that. Not to 'overcome the stigma of menstruation' as some largely societal problem in America. Perhaps I'm getting too semantical and others aren't, or I'm seeing it as it is but the way it's framed is what I have most problem with.
Not offering data of a study, or something that could help some people. That's wonderful.
It's that it's combating a 'stigma' as the parting thought of the statement.
I never defined a distinction, I just said that the study only takes on 'people who have menstruated and are over 18'
so it excludes people under that age, that have.
Your issue is now with the study, not with me or claims I've made:
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I'd like to ask the men posting itt: what's it like to be that unshakeably self-confident even in the face of direct evidence that you don't know a damn thing about the topic you're engaging with? I bet it's really nice
Wait, hold up. Are you arguing that breastfeeding and masturbation no longer have stigma? Because, lol.
What is wrong with being curious about something that one doesn't know?
Albert Einstein said:
Thank you for replying with something helpful, unlike some from the post above.If you’re genuinely curious, may I suggest you read a bit on the topic? Maybe these can get you started.
The bloody truth about getting your period in America
Menstruation remains one of the most taboo topics in the world – and millions of women pay the pricewww.cbsnews.com
U.S. women push back against stigma, cost of menstruation
Sixteen-year-old Emma Joy and her younger sister Quinn recently spent an evening stuffing bags with a full year's supply of tampons or sanitary pads for women who often miss work or school because they cannot afford menstrual products.www.reuters.com
A lot of the stuff on the link articles are really something taboo, imo.
About not affording products for menstruation, I think that has more to do with an issue of poverty and financial responsibility than it being taboo.
The example given about students not talking about what they might do with a tampon when asking to use the bathroom during class, I equate that to people not talking about what they do with toilet paper when they go to the bathroom.
Something interesting about the subject, is that all my years in middle and high school, I have never once seen a request from a female student to go to the bathroom be rejected, but it was very common for male students. Would this be feeding into the taboo of it all?
Thanks again, but I would really like to hear from the person I originally quoted, as they were being deliberately vague about what exactly they were referring to.