Why are so many of you reacting to this rumor about WWDC releases like it's etched into stone? Anything could happen and no one outside of Apple's top management knows what will so what's up with all the ridiculous posts declaring how the market is going to react to these unconfirmed product updates?
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Apple Hints at Product Refreshes?
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Er because the have a choice in the matter? Hmmm for many years they fell behing the competitors in the Mhz race and now they've had a good bump, but seem to have stalled. aggreate? Maybe, but consistancy and time frame are much more solid indicators of a healthy platform.ccuilla said:
pgwalsh said:
Who? Apple? The customers? If the customers, then go with the other choice? What is it?
pgwalsh said:
Nope. I don't agree that they have stalled. They delivered the first version of this product 6 months ago.
pgwalsh said:
"much more solid" than what?
it seems like a rather long time for an update considering most of the components that they would probably use are already available...unless the G5 PB or the 3 GHz PM are on their way.
if updates were done at that time, would they be available for delivery for the back to school crowd?
if updates were done at that time, would they be available for delivery for the back to school crowd?
Reminds me of the introduction to the G4
Apple seems to like to introduce new computers and let them sit for a year without updates. Of course it's always someone's fault - back then it was Motorola that couldn't get their act together. Today? IBM? Apple? The boogie man? Who cares. Apple can do somethings great but others it just can't pull off - that's what makes it a second rate computer company.
When introduced Steve Jobs stated the would be at 3 GHz in 12 months (or end of next summer, I forget which). Possibly he meant the summer after the next.
Apple seems to like to introduce new computers and let them sit for a year without updates. Of course it's always someone's fault - back then it was Motorola that couldn't get their act together. Today? IBM? Apple? The boogie man? Who cares. Apple can do somethings great but others it just can't pull off - that's what makes it a second rate computer company.
When introduced Steve Jobs stated the would be at 3 GHz in 12 months (or end of next summer, I forget which). Possibly he meant the summer after the next.
switch ?
Yes, but... Apple is trying to get PC users to buy Apple computers. No future-ex-PC user even an graphic artist is going to buy an "outdated" (note the quotes) machine that cost's much more than a comparable winbox. I know initial purchase cost is not everything but beeing as slow as Apple is right now in bringing out updates, makes it harder to convince potential customers to switch. Especially those I mentioned.
Holding off this long - without the slightest indication of when or how - is very damaging. I would prefer them to tell the word: "listen we got a problem, don't expect updates untill after summer 04" or "we're droping the price tag of our current offering because we will be bringing out new machines in two months"...
Beeing secretive about future plans, products and strategies, especially after all the hype, surely can't be in the benefit of either Apple or the Mac comunity, or am I missing something.
I don't want to ruin your appetite but this is what Apple is really up against in the portable computer market. And only a G5 offering will counter act it. Note "systems now shipping within 7 days...".
http://alienware.com/system_pages/sentia.aspx
7on said:
Yes, but... Apple is trying to get PC users to buy Apple computers. No future-ex-PC user even an graphic artist is going to buy an "outdated" (note the quotes) machine that cost's much more than a comparable winbox. I know initial purchase cost is not everything but beeing as slow as Apple is right now in bringing out updates, makes it harder to convince potential customers to switch. Especially those I mentioned.
Holding off this long - without the slightest indication of when or how - is very damaging. I would prefer them to tell the word: "listen we got a problem, don't expect updates untill after summer 04" or "we're droping the price tag of our current offering because we will be bringing out new machines in two months"...
Beeing secretive about future plans, products and strategies, especially after all the hype, surely can't be in the benefit of either Apple or the Mac comunity, or am I missing something.
I don't want to ruin your appetite but this is what Apple is really up against in the portable computer market. And only a G5 offering will counter act it. Note "systems now shipping within 7 days...".
http://alienware.com/system_pages/sentia.aspx
ccuilla said:
That's kind of the point isn't it? If Apple can't produce a product that's adequate for my needs, they lose the sale. Why aren't they doing anything to capture that sale? If you're trying to increase market share (which was a stated goal a year or 2 ago) wouldn't you want to stay away from this attitude: "here's what I got for you, if you don't like it, buy from someone else."
Even incremental updates help to stave off the perception that models are out of date, or in many people's view, stagnant. If Apple had done a minor update say 2 months ago, I think many people wouldn't have the feeling that they're paying Day 1 prices for 6-9 month old hardware/specs. Minor updates could be very minor, like keeping hard drive sizes on par with industry or increasing RAM 256MB. Instead Apple does 1 or 2 big updates a year and rather than drop prices, their margins go up as component costs go down. This pretty much incents people to wait at around the 6-9 month time frame and sales drop as a result.
I guess you can argue that they're two different update models: several incremental upgrades vs. sparse aggregate, more significant upgrades. And maybe as a result of processor update schedules or hardware engineering constraints, the sparse aggregate model works better for Apple. Problem is the incremental upgrade model is what people expect from the computer industry so Apple looks slow compared to the rest of the industry. Yet another problem you don't want if you want to be seen as "the fastest personal computer in the world."
you'll wait and you'll like it!
who needs bleeding edge technology anyways? 10.3.3 isn't optimized for anything not already 6 months old. the software isn't capable of taking full advantage of the hardware.
geez, the wife has a g3 233mhz black powerbook running 10.1.3, got no complaints.
so calm down you bunch of judases. you can't turn your backs on apple just cause they're not releasing updates within 2 weeks of average predicted updating time.
buy now, your product will be good till, say, 04/2007. buy in 3 months, it'll be good till 07/2007. see a trend here?
edit:
how many of you actually see your cpu at >80% usage all the time? how many of you actually see your memory at >80% usage all the time? probably not a lot of you. the only ones that have their machine constantly performing at near full capacity are rendering/dv machines. who cares if finder takes an extra 200ms to load your hard drive view, or safari takes an extra 50ms to render www.macrumors.com (such that you can post about how slow it is)
who needs bleeding edge technology anyways? 10.3.3 isn't optimized for anything not already 6 months old. the software isn't capable of taking full advantage of the hardware.
geez, the wife has a g3 233mhz black powerbook running 10.1.3, got no complaints.
so calm down you bunch of judases. you can't turn your backs on apple just cause they're not releasing updates within 2 weeks of average predicted updating time.
buy now, your product will be good till, say, 04/2007. buy in 3 months, it'll be good till 07/2007. see a trend here?
edit:
how many of you actually see your cpu at >80% usage all the time? how many of you actually see your memory at >80% usage all the time? probably not a lot of you. the only ones that have their machine constantly performing at near full capacity are rendering/dv machines. who cares if finder takes an extra 200ms to load your hard drive view, or safari takes an extra 50ms to render www.macrumors.com (such that you can post about how slow it is)
cmoney said:
Well, maybe. If someone else has the product you need/want and Apple doesn't, then yes, they will lose a sale. But if no one else has a product that you want/need and can buy, then they really aren't losing a sale. They just are not getting a sale...yet.
cmoney said:
What makes you assume that they are not? I assume that they are.
cmoney said:
But I don't assume that is what Apple is doing. I assume what they are doing is saying "here's what we have right now. We're working on something new. We have a plan, but we encounter problems. We'll release the next thing when we can and when it is ready. Until then, here is what we have to offer."
cmoney said:
I am not assuming that as many people see the stagnation that you do.
cmoney said:
I don't know where this comes from. The automatic assumtion of deflationary pricing.
cmoney said:
I'll bet only people that don't really NEED these machines but WANT them. Someone that really needs the machine...for their work...will buy it now.
cmoney said:
I agree, some people do have this expectation. But I doubt most do. I suspect most people buy a machine and start using it and don't begin agonizing the next day that Apple is going to come out with something that will make their's obsolete.
ccuilla said:
Ok, I'm probably exagerating a little. But a friend of mine bought a Dell, fully loaded with all the gizmos PC geeks like for something like CHF 2,500.-. Here, in Switzerland, the 15"G4/1Ghz PB currently sells for CHF*3,199.00 with less memory, less disk, less processor, etc. And having used one, it's far les responsive (especially with Macromedia programs) than even an 1.5 years old Dell portable which isn't beautifull, I agree.
Hehe.. And compare the 10 Mins batterylife with 4 hours...teksmex69 said:apple can't touch the performance, much less the price of this tank:
17" notebook
3.2ghz Pentium EE w/2meg cache
2gigs of system ram
Radeon 9700 w/256meg mem
60gig 7200rpm drive (yes you read that correctly)
DVD+R/DVD-R/RW/CDRW(super super drive)
built-in-webcam included
10/100/1000 ethernet
built-in-802.11g
built-in 7-in-1 flash memory reader
$3580
Apple has a much slower powerbook, far less powerful video, same ram will cost $4373
yes the apple is thin, light and pretty....but i'm starting to feel temperamental
http://www.powernotebooks.com/images/8790/
p.s. i'm still getting my brother a 15" pb 1.25 for graduation present. i know the benefits of os x, and he does a lot of video work. but for myself...currently it would be a toss up. a speed bump with a pricebreak would help.
pgwalsh said:
No...you are correct in that everyone is not on the same purchasing cycle. However, maybe Apple is trying to do something along that nature. Automobile manufacturer's don't upgrade their vehicle lines every time some new gadget comes out. They have a set upgrade cycle and people wait to see what will be coming in the "next exciting model".
Concerning the latest hardware, well, the dual 2GHz G5 is the latest hardware from Apple...
pgwalsh said:
...there is competition...PC's, Windows and all of the associated headaches that come with those (just as there are headaches with the Mac.) Apple is the only one who makes Apples...just as BMW is the only one who makes BMWs. They don't want to liscence their product out...it might seem assanine it drives some folks away I'm sure but if those folks want Apple...they will buy one of the present G5s, or they will wait for Apple's next upgrade cycle
Also, Apple is not just a hardware company don't forget about their software. The constant upgrades and speed improvements in OS X make little differences that keep older Macs viable and capable of doing what you ask them to do for much longer than their Windows counterparts.
pgwalsh said:
I am one of those people who have waited and will continue to wait. I am still running a Dual 1 GHz Quicksilver (whip cracks in the distance). Of course it's reasonable to expect updates...I didn't say it wasn't just that I think the anger is a little unfounded. The dual 2GHz G5 is a screamer, even after a year of the computer industry constantly upgrading. The industry is always upgrading and if you always must have the latest and greatest and fastest machine then you are going to need deep pockets not to mention the patience to deal with the constant hassle of settling in to a new Mac every 3 to 6 months, if Apple upgraded with the ferocity of Dell and the other PC snakeoil salesmen. Most consumers will not upgrade that frequently and while I realize that everyone has different upgrade cycles, Apple may just be creating a yearly major upgrade cycle with minor changes every 6 months so we Mac users will have to adapt accordingly if we want to use Macs.
pgwalsh said:
I and most Mac owners do expect more...if we didn't then we'd all be running PCs now and I wouldn't be on this board having this friendly conversation about Apple. Mac users love their computers. It is an obsession with us, we are fiercely loyal and the only doubts created are usually in the minds of those who were wiffle waffling to begin with. The computer world has been tolling the death bell for Apple for the last 20 years. "Danger Will Robinson, DANGER! Apple hasn't announced upgrades for 8 months! They're sinking...SINKING!!"
1GHz increase in a year, possibly under a year? What's everybody complaining about? I'd like to see the P4 pull that off. If you've made it this far without a G5 revision you can hang on for a few more weeks, like I am going to. Otherwise...snag a 2GHz dualie...they rock from what I hear and still will even after these new boxes come out.
davidnator said:
If you're not seeing 100% cpu utilization on a processor intensive task, you are either paging due to not enough memory or IO bound. Buy more memory or a RAID array and stop whining. What did you do in the days before dual G5? Do you want to go back?
ccuilla said:
I'm currently using a G4/466 desktop which is slow but at least it didn't cost me anything since I've lent it. I had a G4/1ghz PB which I sold after 2 weeks of usage because it felt only slightly faster than this old G4/466. Of course I could continue using the G4/466 for the next couple of years.. come to think of it - that's what I'm going to do
spinko said:I'm currently using a G4/466 desktop which is slow but at least it didn't cost me anything since I've lent it. I had a G4/1ghz PB which I sold after 2 weeks of usage because it felt only slightly faster than this old G4/466. Of course I could continue using the G4/466 for the next couple of years.. come to think of it - that's what I'm going to do
And when you finally upgrade to a PMG6--quad processor---5GHz machine, you'll be pissed that you can't just doubl-click Safari, and go get a cup of coffee while it launches.
;-)
Photorun said:
Sounds like you're having software problems. What piece of software do you have that won't run on a PC? How many times do you replace your machines (I assume you have multiple machines) 2x a year 3x a year? I assume your time-to -market for jobs is the fastest in your profession?
There are other machines out there. Professional workstations. Depends on what you define as "graphics professional".
I WANT AN UPDATE NOW.
For me it's becuase I'm in the market to upgrade, and I know an update should be close. I want a new mac, I can afford to buy one now. I don't want to wait until June for the announcement, then September for it to ship. 6 months between updates might be too short for Apple to blow throught their stock, but 12 monthes is too long for customers to wait. The 3Ghz by summer was a bad thing. They seem to be focues on that goal so we don't even get incremental speed bumps, seems silly.
I should be able to by a Dual 2.2 or 2.5 Ghz G5 Right now. That's not too much to ask after 8 months. I mean really. And speaking of updates ATI has a 256 meg version of their Top of the line video card, why can't I buy that in my new 2 Ghz G5 right now?
Apple shouldn't have to redesign any part of the G5 system to bump the processor speed up a little.
And even it they only update every 12 months the prices should start dropping at the 8 month mark, or at least the month before the roll out of the new line.
For me it's becuase I'm in the market to upgrade, and I know an update should be close. I want a new mac, I can afford to buy one now. I don't want to wait until June for the announcement, then September for it to ship. 6 months between updates might be too short for Apple to blow throught their stock, but 12 monthes is too long for customers to wait. The 3Ghz by summer was a bad thing. They seem to be focues on that goal so we don't even get incremental speed bumps, seems silly.
I should be able to by a Dual 2.2 or 2.5 Ghz G5 Right now. That's not too much to ask after 8 months. I mean really. And speaking of updates ATI has a 256 meg version of their Top of the line video card, why can't I buy that in my new 2 Ghz G5 right now?
Apple shouldn't have to redesign any part of the G5 system to bump the processor speed up a little.
And even it they only update every 12 months the prices should start dropping at the 8 month mark, or at least the month before the roll out of the new line.
Apple.. Can they just bump CPU's if they don't have them? no...ccuilla said:
Fair enough you're entitled to your own opnion.But look at the timeline on MacRumors as suggested and most would expect them. That's what half the people in this forum are complaining about. Also it was 7 months ago and much longer if you idicate when announced and expected vers expected ship dates.ccuilla said:
Than not delivering new products when industry is especting. Doubt has been exspressed by analysts and mac head alike. Doubt aoubt Apples ability to keep up with the Jonesesccuilla said: