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Mr Maui said:
Powerbook G4s at WWDC ...

Can anyone say "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!" :D

Do you have any evidence to support your statement? There are many different reasons I mentioned in my other posts in this thread to support my guess, so I'm not going to repeat myself. After thinking about it again, I can only see one reason why they could in fact wait until WWDC: The PPC 7447A. If they want to use it but cannot start produce PowerBooks utilizing PPC 7447A until late June or even early July, they would probably wait. Nevertheless, Apple rather updates the PowerBooks in the next 2-3 weeks.
 
Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.

I decided to chime in on this one for several reasons. Mostly because there are an increasing amount of people who think it's 'okay' for Apple to only release updates once per year. And that we dont 'need' updates because how often does the normal user use all their processing power.

You people are completely deluding yourselves. I'll say that right now, and on some level you must realize it... even if you are in Apple's PR damage control department, because that assertion is completely ridiculous.

You have to remember this is the COMPUTER industry. Not the microwave, refrigerator, or TV industry where people only buy these things once in a while. And only a small portion of people need new ones from year to year. For every person that bought the G5s to stay on top of computing technology there are at least 2 that are running early or mid G4s that are continually getting more and more outpaced. Try running Halo, iDVD and Limewire at once and even the mighty G5 is brought to its knees.

Not to mention the professionals here who without these machines wouldnt be able to make a living. No even the dual G5s apply a complicated filter to a 500 meg TIFF in less than a minute. That translates to lost productivity.

It's not so much the fact that I cant handle the delay, its the fact that they continue to charge $3000 for a machine that was announced in June and delivered August of 2003!

I see so many claims of 'we are still on top' and 'the G5 is still worth the money' and those statements simply arent true. Shortly after the G5 came out there were benchmarks challenging the 'fastest PC' statement. Now, Im not a Mac hater, but I dont hate PCs either so I wont say which I believed is faste but you have to admit that many of the tests showed that the Athlon 64 and Dual G5 were running neck and neck.

THAT WAS 8 MONTHS AGO PEOPLE! AMD and Intel have come out with a dozen processors since then. Granted they have hit a wall as well, but we are still seeing Prescotts, EE, and AMD FXs come out even if the clock speed isnt being pushed as much.. we are still seeing progess. And we havent seen a thing from Apple/IBM. Sure, you can make the arguement no one needs more speed... but thats all relative. Sure YOU might not need more speed, hell, 95% of the people out might not NEED it. But I WANT IT. And so do a hell of a lot of people. If the computer industry ran on that rationale the best selling computer would be a 1GHz Duron for $129 because it can run the internet, e-mail, word processing, etc just as well as everything else.

To the guy that said a comparable system for $3000 couldnt be built... POPPYCOCK! I could build one that beat it on EVERY system spec and saved close to a grand. Check out the forums on overclockers.com and check out some of the dual AMD rigs. Hell, if the first Athlon 64 could run neck and neck with a DUAL 2.0 GHz G5, you wouldnt even need a second processor. Just check out newegg for the latest and greatest from AMD.

Bottom line is that Apple is dropping the ball right now. I sold my Quicksilver G4 before Macworld and was going to get a G5 after the updates. When none came I realized that we were in for the long haul. Think about it... Steve would have announced the G5sthen if he could have shipped them in 16 weeks. But he didnt. I bought a 3.2Ghz Dell I got from a great deal on fatwallet.com in Jan and have been happy every since. It hasnt crashed, and while its not nearly as pretty as the G5... at least I dont have to search high and low for the software I need.

Apple has lost a customer here because of this. Maybe they'll get me back sometime around the Powerbook G5s, or maybe they wont... Funny thing is that I was a switcher prompted by the LCD iMacs and decided to get a Powermac instead. Guess I went back to the dark side...
 
Palador said:
Palador here, long time reader... first time poster.

I decided to chime in on this one for several reasons. Mostly because there are an increasing amount of people who think it's 'okay' for Apple to only release updates once per year. And that we dont 'need' updates because how often does the normal user use all their processing power.

You people are completely deluding yourselves. I'll say that right now, and on some level you must realize it... even if you are in Apple's PR damage control department, because that assertion is completely ridiculous.

You have to remember this is the COMPUTER industry. Not the microwave, refrigerator, or TV industry where people only buy these things once in a while. And only a small portion of people need new ones from year to year. For every person that bought the G5s to stay on top of computing technology there are at least 2 that are running early or mid G4s that are continually getting more and more outpaced. Try running Halo, iDVD and Limewire at once and even the mighty G5 is brought to its knees.

Not to mention the professionals here who without these machines wouldnt be able to make a living. No even the dual G5s apply a complicated filter to a 500 meg TIFF in less than a minute. That translates to lost productivity.

It's not so much the fact that I cant handle the delay, its the fact that they continue to charge $3000 for a machine that was announced in June and delivered August of 2003!

I see so many claims of 'we are still on top' and 'the G5 is still worth the money' and those statements simply arent true. Shortly after the G5 came out there were benchmarks challenging the 'fastest PC' statement. Now, Im not a Mac hater, but I dont hate PCs either so I wont say which I believed is faste but you have to admit that many of the tests showed that the Athlon 64 and Dual G5 were running neck and neck.

THAT WAS 8 MONTHS AGO PEOPLE! AMD and Intel have come out with a dozen processors since then. Granted they have hit a wall as well, but we are still seeing Prescotts, EE, and AMD FXs come out even if the clock speed isnt being pushed as much.. we are still seeing progess. And we havent seen a thing from Apple/IBM. Sure, you can make the arguement no one needs more speed... but thats all relative. Sure YOU might not need more speed, hell, 95% of the people out might not NEED it. But I WANT IT. And so do a hell of a lot of people. If the computer industry ran on that rationale the best selling computer would be a 1GHz Duron for $129 because it can run the internet, e-mail, word processing, etc just as well as everything else.

To the guy that said a comparable system for $3000 couldnt be built... POPPYCOCK! I could build one that beat it on EVERY system spec and saved close to a grand. Check out the forums on overclockers.com and check out some of the dual AMD rigs. Hell, if the first Athlon 64 could run neck and neck with a DUAL 2.0 GHz G5, you wouldnt even need a second processor. Just check out newegg for the latest and greatest from AMD.

Bottom line is that Apple is dropping the ball right now. I sold my Quicksilver G4 before Macworld and was going to get a G5 after the updates. When none came I realized that we were in for the long haul. Think about it... Steve would have announced the G5sthen if he could have shipped them in 16 weeks. But he didnt. I bought a 3.2Ghz Dell I got from a great deal on fatwallet.com in Jan and have been happy every since. It hasnt crashed, and while its not nearly as pretty as the G5... at least I dont have to search high and low for the software I need.

Apple has lost a customer here because of this. Maybe they'll get me back sometime around the Powerbook G5s, or maybe they wont... Funny thing is that I was a switcher prompted by the LCD iMacs and decided to get a Powermac instead. Guess I went back to the dark side...


The Truth is my friend that your dell 3.2 isnt even close to matching a dual G5 with 2gb ram and this pc you can build for a grand less that will be about the same maybe the pc will run a little faster but its running a little faster than an 8month old machine..... so i hope you are happy with all that is windows.... but as a package the G5 gets real work done whilst the pc is just........ rubbish really...and then when the dual 3ghz machines come out then what is going to be anywhere near it???? nothing.... even the dual xeons will look slow comapared to it


ive got a pc and im not one of the "macs are the greatest thing" clan but os x panther is one hell of an operating system... and untill windoze start havin something decent then i wont go back


as for updates wwdc

powerbooks G5, new displays, and 3ghz powermacs.....

and if they dont well i will be gutted cos i want a new powerbook but am waiting so patiently

steve...... finger out of ass please
 
aswitcher said:
Sure. Ok. Bye bye now... :D

This is a perfect example of blind Apple loyalty which irritates almost everyone, even Mac users.

Palador takes the time & trouble to explain at lenth why he thinks Apple are dropping the ball on the updates (almost all of which I happen to agree with) and all you can do is respond with a juvenile insult. Grow up.
 
toontra said:
This is a perfect example of blind Apple loyalty which irritates almost everyone, even Mac users.

Palador takes the time & trouble to explain at lenth why he thinks Apple are dropping the ball on the updates (almost all of which I happen to agree with) and all you can do is respond with a juvenile insult. Grow up.

Ouch. :eek:

Well first up I have NEVER owned a mac. Indeed I have rarely used them... So you are off on a big false assumption to begin with. I am planning to switch for a number of reasons mostly about Apple's quality hardware, software and especially OSX.

Second up, re Paladors little chat. It seems clear to me that Palador has read the arguments, and has decided that Apple's are over priced, don't depreciate fast enough, and aren't powerful enough for what they want. We have been reading this from several people for weeks now and it is getting very old. Palador comes out of the blue, has what I would describe as a rant...hardly a balanced discussion about the whole Apple experience of hardware and software, especially OSX. We have seen before that such an attitude is not likely to be open to change, their opinion is made up...as Paladors text clearly indicates. I would never jump on as a newbie and rant and expect anything constructive to come back...whcih brings me to

Palador is a "newbie" which brings some question re the autheticity of the claims and willingness to discuss the issues. Paladors approach was a rant and like others who have been posting, its seems a waste of time to discuss things further when they have slammed the door with their attitude and words.

As for the insult, saying "bye bye smiley" is hardly an insult. I am interested in reading posts that continue discussions, not newbies who rant off with opinions that only really say that because Apple doesn't do what the PC world does they are dropping the ball.

Anyway, enough time wasted on this. If you want to discuss the pros and cons, express opinions and prompt for discussion, then conversation can ensue. If you want to rant off and slam the door then please don't bother posting.
 
Someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed!

Photorun said:
A year between updates?!?!? WTF?!?!? WHAT MORONS!!! If there was another serious choice of computer for a graphics professional I'd so jump to it, Apple's heads are up their arses!

Maybe its just me but this whole "Apple needs to update every 2 months" thing is getting pretty old. I work for a very large bank with over 22000 desktops (windows unfortunetly). We refresh the companies desktops 1/3 a year for 3 years. That means that people who rec'd a new PC in 2001 will be getting new ones this year, yet they are still somehow productive with these 3 year old machines. Amazing really, when you think about it, the life cycle of Apple machines last twice as long, but yet everyone here still complains they haven't updated in a "whole" year. Seems silly to me, they are expected to keep up with PC update schedules just to cut a few seconds off of benchmarks.
I'd be more interested in peripheral updates rather than processor updates.
I'd like to see dual layer 16X DVD burners in June. Now that is cutting some time off my busy DVD pirating schedule. I've got to get these things back to blockbuster when my friends are done making copies! :D
 
Just one more thing....

aswitcher said:
I dont agree. It should be cheaper for apple to make 1 or 2 jumps every six months, than lots of little ones throughout the year.

Not every update needs to be a major Stevenote...unless it's an ego thing.

Look at the Intel side, if you need a computer, you look. I got a dual Xeon Dell last fall - top end, 3.06 GHz, 512 KiB L2. (Choice of 2.4, 2.66, 2.8, or 3.06 GHz)

I ordered another one in December, top was now 3.06 GHz with 1MiB L3 cache. Just looked today (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/pro...0?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz&~tab=specstab#tabtop), and there are options for a 3.2 GHz with 1 MiB L3 and a 3.2 GHz with 2 MiB L3. (and the 2.4, 2.66, 2.8 and 3.06 are still available, either 1 MiB L3 or 512 KiB L2).

Oh, and there's now a 400 GB disk option.

Nothing else has changed. No big announcements. No fanfare. Just quiet advances to the latest components.



And choice - the first item in the menu is:

  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 2MB L3 Cache [add $1,100]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.20GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $850]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 3.06GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $700]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.80GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $450]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.80GHz, 512K Cache [add $200]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.66GHz, 512K Cache [add $100]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.40GHz, 1MB L3 Cache [add $250]
  • Intel® Xeon™ Processor 2.40GHz, 512K Cache

Second item is whether you want the second processor....

(http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=555&oc=WS650MTPAD&m_11=WXP1&c=us&l=en&s=biz)
 
aswitcher said:
Anyway, enough time wasted on this. If you want to discuss the pros and cons, express opinions and prompt for discussion, then conversation can ensue. If you want to rant off and slam the door then please don't bother posting.

thank's for doing so now !
 
It really is about choice and Apple will have none of that.
Palador make a nice post, same boat as you but still watching. If they dont do something big soon i will also jump fence but while waiting on Apple the PC side is advancing so this means ill get only more.

Its not good for a company to be arrogant and think that what ever they do we will follow. we are not lemmings. we want choices not more pods.
 
My Outrageous Prediction.

Dual 3ghz ppc975 (Dual core). ATI X800 or NV40, PCI-Express, Hyper Transport 2.0. New Mouse/Keyboard.
 
the iLilana Apple release schedule:

due to processor issues, there will be no speedbump or update announce until WWDC in which there will be:
-OSX Tiger (i still like Ocelot) Sept release date.
-iBook and powerbook speedbump.
-announcement of Sept or release date for dual 3Ghz.
-lots of bragging
-steve wears different color sweater
-me losing interest

apple needs to do something big...soon
 
aswitcher said:
Palador is a "newbie" which brings some question re the autheticity of the claims and willingness to discuss the issues.

What exactly does being a Newbie have to do with having a decent amount of knowledge about the computer market? Not all computer savvy people have "Demi-God" status and I am sure that there are a whole lot more savvy folks on the outside of this Apple Forum than there are inside.
 
aswitcher said:
Ouch. :eek:

Well first up I have NEVER owned a mac. Indeed I have rarely used them... So you are off on a big false assumption to begin with. I am planning to switch for a number of reasons mostly about Apple's quality hardware, software and especially OSX.
Doesn't negate the fact that your comment was obnoxious. The fact that you don’t even own a mac and you’d make that comment to someone on a Mac forum when you’re a wannabe mac user makes is stranger. It’s like your out to antagonize someone.

Palador makes many valid points. A few of us have stated the same sentiments in earlier posts with some variation. He wouldn’t have posted unless he cared and wanted to see a positive change in Apple.
 
sparks9 said:
maybe they are skipping right to 3 ghz? SJ did promise 3 ghz "this time next year" ...


... Noone knows

Maybe the new powermacs will be announced at NAB but the dual 3GHz will not be shipping until WWDC? (2.2, 2.4, 2.6 (or 2.7), 3.0?) That way Steve could demo the dual 3 at WWDC and have more time for other announcements at the event.

I still think NAB will bring us something big... Just look at the other thread. "See Apple's latest technology." "Moving the industry" "Join us for a SPECIAL presentation."
 
I don't get the people saying that Apple don't need up update more than once a year.

It makes no sense.

With the G5 Apple just about caught up with the PC world. The PC world is effectively on a constant update process. This means that by now, Apple is behind the curve, the prices haven't changed, and PCs look much more desirable again in terms of processing power, features, etc.

So what if people only upgrade once every 3 years? I'm sure you'd like to upgrade whenever you wanted and get something that wasn't 9 months out of date at that time because your supplier of computer systems decided that it wasn't good to up the specs a little to compete.

Updates needn't be big. They don't require new cases, or new motherboards. Just a faster processor on the motherboard. A larger HD. More memory. A faster DVD-R. A small upgrade, but more often. No-one will feel bad if they buy a computer then Apple release a much much faster computer a mere two months later for the same price, because it won't happen.

The only thing that Apple do right is frequent updates to the OS, much more frequently that Windows is updated.

If you can't upgrade a computer because there is no way to upgrade it (no faster processor available, which might have been the problem with the G5) then drop the price to compete and still sell systems.
 
invaLPsion said:
Maybe the new powermacs will be announced at NAB but the dual 3GHz will not be shipping until WWDC? (2.2, 2.4, 2.6 (or 2.7), 3.0?) That way Steve could demo the dual 3 at WWDC and have more time for other announcements at the event.

I still think NAB will bring us something big... Just look at the other thread. "See Apple's latest technology." "Moving the industry" "Join us for a SPECIAL presentation."

Is Apple or Steve actually going to have a Keynote at NAB? It starts a week from today. Then will end the day after our ever favorite day of Tuesday.
 
Steve Capps said:
"The big question is after you do version one of all the cool consumer products, what is the next act?" he says. "Apple has always been great with breakthrough products, but never has been great with follow-ons.*Sony, for instance,*can crank out the tenth version of a Walkman just as easily as the first version and can mix-n-match features to make a product family. If Apple can learn this 'new-and-improved model' for selling consumer products -- instead of its historical tendency to do masterpieces for version*one (and no more) -- then it'll be fine for five 10, or 20 years.

says it all...

here the whole article
http://www.macminute.com/2004/03/03/capps
 
a17inchFuture said:
Yeah, that is great, except for literally every powermac buyer over the last year who has invested money in technology that is outdated (arguably if it isnt updated for a year, its old), while dell users are getting the newest everytime the buy. I just think its sad that I bought a 1.33 17 inch that is literally 8 months old for full price. That just makes me sick that apple thinks they can and should do this to their customers.

Then why did you buy it? Did Apple send a small security force to your home or office and give you the option of 8 month old technology or death? I agree that Apple's update schedule is laughable, but the only way they will change is if their user base votes with their cash.
 
joeconvert said:
Then why did you buy it? Did Apple send a small security force to your home or office and give you the option of 8 month old technology or death? I agree that Apple's update schedule is laughable, but the only way they will change is if their user base votes with their cash.
Possibly that he wanted to run OS X and not support the monopoly MS, but still wanted consumer grade applications and not have rely on the more difficult to use open source solutions.

So he could choose to be another MS guy with a Dell or be an Apple guy. He chose Apple, but he realizes that he could have done better with regard to hardware, but not run OS X. Sort of stuck in that situation where one company controls everything from top to bottom and you either get what they give you or go with something completely different. So you get what they give you and pay your premium and are happy that you didn't support a monopoly, but still acknowledge that you’re tied to one manufacture and your left with little to choose. You think to yourself, wouldn't it be great if I could use OS X on the latest Alienware setup or on a Dual Opteron 64 system, but wakeup realizing it's only a pipe dream...

So you voice your opinion on a Apple/Mac based site and some faithful mac people tell you to either shut up and deal with it or go to the other side (the dark side). So they’re completely content with the way Apple does business and they don’t mind Apples strategy and they like their niche products… They can keep it all to themselves. God help us if someone should want a little competition or have them push the envelope… These faithful all know Apple can do no wrong and will be perfectly happy with whatever Apple gives them. Throw a 1.5Ghz G4 on a potato and call it MacSpud and they’ll praise Jobs for being environmentally conscience. Forget the fact that they had the opportunity to do things different, but they didn’t and we are to blame for complaining that we want and expect more from a company we hope will be fruitful and capture a larger audience. Blah!
 
Potato Mac, why not its better then anything else they have come up in the past 8 months. This company is lost when marketshare has hit 1%. installed base can only be getting smaller and smaller. Just sell the OS to Microsoft and get it over.
 
Dont Hurt Me said:
Potato Mac, why not its better then anything else they have come up in the past 8 months. This company is lost when marketshare has hit 1%. installed base can only be getting smaller and smaller. Just sell the OS to Microsoft and get it over.

i don't udnerstand, what's your problem? :mad:
 
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