Apple Hints at Product Refreshes?

[CrackedButter]

I've been waiting and waiting on this side of the pond since i sold my AluPB in January and got an emac, i've been on this since and it runs like a charm. I want a new laptop, I WANT A NEW LAPTOP. But, i'm not buying one until after September, that way i've waited for WWDC and the ParisExpo. I'm sure they will have either a new iBook or PowerBook by then, then I will buy whatever, i'm not waiting, not with my course turning in its second year and already agreeing to sell my emac at a price with handshake included.

I would like FAST and i would like cheaper, i've felt like moaning on these boards as well but i've sat here and watched everybody else say what I could say. I've been tempted and I've been tempted, Apple have even thrown open the refurb website in my face in the UK AND given me a £20 discount coupon which runs out at the end of this month. (If anybody wants it PM me)

I'm not tempted to budge, i want the laptop in september with maybe an ipod, the reason I want to hold out is that I would have a better appreciation for it and normally those sorts of things taste better when you have waited like a good little boy!

 

[ccuilla]

For me it's becuase I'm in the market to upgrade, and I know an update should be close. I want a new mac, I can afford to buy one now. I don't want to wait until June for the announcement, then September for it to ship.

Then buy one now. What's the problem with that?

I should be able to by a Dual 2.2 or 2.5 Ghz G5 Right now. That's not too much to ask after 8 months. I mean really.

Says who?

Apple shouldn't have to redesign any part of the G5 system to bump the processor speed up a little.

Probably true. But maybe, just maybe they're doing more than just bumping the processor speed.

And even it they only update every 12 months the prices should start dropping at the 8 month mark, or at least the month before the roll out of the new line.

Says who?

 

[ccuilla]

Than not delivering new products when industry is especting. Doubt has been exspressed by analysts and mac head alike. Doubt aoubt Apples ability to keep up with the Joneses

With regard to the PMG5 line, who is ahead of Apple right now? How far (performance and price)?

 

[pgwalsh]

With regard to the PMG5 line, who is ahead of Apple right now? How far (performance and price)?

You missed the point. We're talking about consistency of updating product lines. When you have an expected product cycle and nothing happens, industry may think there's something wrong, that you're having production problems. Remember the weak sales and concerns for the PM line a couple months ago.

Apple has had a history of people being concerned about their survival for lack of a consistant products and the failure to gain marketshare. Their is so much detail and different aspects to discuss on this point alone. There computer line still has the taste of this, even though things were looking up when Mr. Jobs returned, market share hasn't improved much if any. Even today Analyst express doubt and the saving factor appears to be the iPod.

So with regards to my point, the lack of revisions may appear as a problem, which in many eyes would appear as a problem with the company and a reason not to purchase. Maybe not yours or most of the members of this forum, but to industry in general. Oh yes, I am concerned about my plaform of choice.

So yes.. update even if it isn't a major update... Give us a bit more confidence in Apple. Give those of us waiting for an update something before a year long cycle. Make your customers happy.

 

[aswitcher]

Appleinsider reports on a conference call with Apple Specialists yesterday by Senior Director of Channel Sales and Distribution, Jeff Hansen.

According to Appleinsider, Hanson "provided hints that the company would be 'refreshing' many of its professional products during its World Wide Developers conference, set to take place in San Francisco during the final week of June."

Apple first released the PowerMac G5 at WWDC last year.

"Many of the professional products"...so what about the iMac whose sales are poorly?

And does this mean Apple's professional software?

At least it gives me some hope of a G5PB...

 

[Spagolli94]

Apple needs to refresh something...and soon.


Get rid of those ugly red lights on the white iPods...lets get some nice blue in there, or better yet, white.
Joe

hahaha... Right on man. I thought I was the only one who thought that!

 

[ccuilla]

You missed the point.

You missed MY point. You said that the concern about consistent updates stems from analyst concerns about Apple keeping up with the Jones'. So I asked which "Jones" has passed Apple?

I understand the whole issue of "consistent updates". I'm not nearly so obsessed with it as many here are. And it is an obsession. Apple is doing just fine. Are there SOME that would LIKE for Apple to have updated the PMG5. I understand this. But the underlying presumption seems to be that Apple is just sitting on their thumbs. I doubt this. Is it possible they have hit a snag? Perhaps. Will they overcome it? Very likely. The other underlying attitude of many people here seems to be one of "I wish it to be so, therefore it should be so." Things don't work that way.

 

[pgwalsh]

You missed MY point. You said that the concern about consistent updates stems from analyst concerns about Apple keeping up with the Jones'. So I asked which "Jones" has passed Apple?

I'm referring to keeping up with regular product updates. Didn't realize I needed to spell it out for ya.. After all, that's what I've been talking about. I don't recall saying anything about competitiors surpassing apple, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

I understand the whole issue of "consistent updates". I'm not nearly so obsessed with it as many here are. And it is an obsession. Apple is doing just fine. Are there SOME that would LIKE for Apple to have updated the PMG5. I understand this. But the underlying presumption seems to be that Apple is just sitting on their thumbs. I doubt this. Is it possible they have hit a snag? Perhaps. Will they overcome it? Very likely. The other underlying attitude of many people here seems to be one of "I wish it to be so, therefore it should be so." Things don't work that way.

Yes.. it's an obsession we can't wait... We sing the Apple Mantra every morning before anything else...

I think your remarks are spot on... Some of us may feel like they're sitting on their thumbs, but I as you said, most people fear a snag. We don't want snags at Apple.. We want a smoth ship saling the tech seas.

There's an armada of us that would like to see Apple consistanly push forward and cursh the PC users in their path. We want market growth and the best products consitantly being poured through Apples doors. Some of us might even think of trading our girlfriends/boyfriends for our Macs.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

You cant have updates if you are married to someone like Motorola, since they have gone nowhere where do you think Apple's sales have gone?. How the heck you update something when you dont have anything to update them to? G4 has spent another year with no progress, so this means Apple is going to do the same until they can kick out all those G4s. Fact is Apple is for the most part still pushing G4s from a year ago or more. They cant compete and Apple is just taking way to long to changeover to G5. Since Steve took over, marketshare has snowballed to under 2%. They are to arrogant doing what they want not what the customer or the market wants. They better be doing more then hinting because the world isnt going to wait on Apple or WWDC. once a year updates? That isnt going to cut it in a technology field that changes almost weekly.

 

[tsk]

Maybe Steve will have a Keynote speech that says - ALL MACS NOW FEATURE G5 PROCESSORS.

That would be badass.

Badass maybe, but about a snowball's chance in hell by my estimates.

 

[ghiangelo]

clock cycles

current processor clock cycles have been stuck at around the 3 Ghz level for both AMD and Intel. it has been this way for the last year. now with the prescott cpu Intel is having to rename the chips basically to conceal the actual clock speed which is not going to be breaking the 3Ghz barrier anytime soon (getting to 4+Ghz actually produces more prediction errors and weaker performance which Intel believes can be overcome with new compiler code and optimizations). IBM no doubt sees this as the opportunity to get caught up in the race. the problem is profiting from cycle increments in the meantime. Intel and AMD sell cpus in small increments. Intel marketed 3 Ghz cpus one month and then introduced 3.02 Ghz the next! thats what you call milking the yield. Apple has to do the same. the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise. all of the increments are profit potentials. no matter what promises were made about 3Ghz PPCs appearing at the end of summer, it's not going to happen. IBM will want to sell ALL the cycle yields they can get out of the chip. this means the refreshing of the professional line up is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time.

ghi

 

[Mikeyy]

Who needs a damn G5 update anyways..

Comon guys, quit your bitching, the G5 is still one of the fastest pc's available. Maybe thats why apple hasnt done an update.. theres no need right now. Hell even when the G5 hits a year old, its still gonna be a kick ass machine. Now the i-book/i-mac thats another story. Forget the e-mac, thats for welfare cases that need a new mac. The graphics performance on mac's compared to their pc counterparts also needs some work.. anyone try UT-2004 on a radon 9000? the pc flys, the mac blows..

 

[ccuilla]

the world isnt going to wait on Apple or WWDC.

Well, if the world wants PMG5s faster than what Apple offers right now, I guess the world will have to wait. If it doesn't like it...it has to go somewhere else. Those look like the only options from where I sit. Desirable or not, that's it. Whining and complaining seem unlikely to change the progress one iota. They'll get here when they get here. And if Apple goes out of business in the mean time, then so be it.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Well, if you want PMG5s faster than what they offer right now, I guess the world will have to. If it doesn't like it...go somewhere else. Those look like the only options from where I sit. Desirable or not, that's it. Whining and complaining seem unlikely to change the progress one iota.

Well powermac isnt the only product they make but the dual powermac is the only product that competes with PCs. everything else doesnt and going somewhere else is just what the world has been doing for years. Please look at marketshare and yes it does matter. Perhaps Microsoft will help them again only this time Microsoft will say we want a windows version of OSX for bailing you out again Steve.

 

[aswitcher]

Badass maybe, but about a snowball's chance in hell by my estimates.

Ditto. Maybe July 2005...

 

[kirk26]

Man, those iBooks are soooo out of date! Whats it been? 3 months? <sarcasm>

 

[tsk]

You are right about not dropping prices for models being eight months old. On the other hand, as long as PowerBooks are selling well (and as far as I know they are), why should Apple drop prices and therefore reduce their earnings? Apple, like it or not, is not as dependent on other companies' price policies as are e.g. Dell, Toshiba, Sony etc. Secondly, PB updates are coming soon anyway.

Because if they reduced their price, maybe they could sell even more of them. And while it may not make a difference to the bottom line now, if they're putting more units out there, and if a % are people switching, they would be doing better for the long run.

 

[j_maddison]

current processor clock cycles have been stuck at around the 3 Ghz level for both AMD and Intel. it has been this way for the last year. now with the prescott cpu Intel is having to rename the chips basically to conceal the actual clock speed which is not going to be breaking the 3Ghz barrier anytime soon (getting to 4+Ghz actually produces more prediction errors and weaker performance which Intel believes can be overcome with new compiler code and optimizations). IBM no doubt sees this as the opportunity to get caught up in the race. the problem is profiting from cycle increments in the meantime. Intel and AMD sell cpus in small increments. Intel marketed 3 Ghz cpus one month and then introduced 3.02 Ghz the next! thats what you call milking the yield. Apple has to do the same. the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise. all of the increments are profit potentials. no matter what promises were made about 3Ghz PPCs appearing at the end of summer, it's not going to happen. IBM will want to sell ALL the cycle yields they can get out of the chip. this means the refreshing of the professional line up is going to be stretched out over a longer period of time.

ghi

I think there is alot of meritt in what you say. my only concern with that though, is that your ignoring a fundamental element of strategy, and thats the facilitation of step change. i agree that incremental change yields great profit rewards, but at the moment apple really need a step change and a jump straight to 3ghz would achieve that. i think where their strategy is looking a bit weak, is that they are ignoring consumer demand and being too internally focused in what they are putting out there. The market wants G5 across the rance, i understand this is not possible in the powerbook yet, but i think a 1.6ghz emac and i mac should have hit the market long ago. the pro range should have just been two models, a dual 1.8 and a dual 2.0ghz. if there are faster chips out there, i think apple should have put them into the pro range as soon as they were available, and used any surplus chips to bump up the consumer range.

jay

 

[AidenShaw]

missing the point - choice

Hehe.. And compare the 10 Mins batterylife with 4 hours...

Cute.

The point though, is that the high power, bulky, short battery life laptop market is one of the biggest and fast growing segment of the laptop market.

And Apple has nothing to compete here.

These systems are used by people who want a nice, powerful PC - but want to put it in the desk drawer when they're not logged in.

They're used by office workers who can have a full-powered system at work - and take the same system home if they need to work on the weekend. (and like the home user, don't want to dedicate half their desk to a computer)

I don't want them - the midsized (14") system with builtin DVD and 6 hours of battery life is my sweet spot. I think the 12" under 3 pound market (another one with no Apple presence) is also good, but I don't want to make the screen size and feature sacrifices just to save less than a kilo.

But don't make fun of battery life - some people are always plugged in....

 

[AidenShaw]

incremental change - lowers the pain threshold

the idea of jumping from 2Ghz as the top end cpu to a 3Ghz machine without trying to sell 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, or 2.8 Ghz units is not wise.

(And kudos to the j_maddison post here as well)


One thing that more frequent, smaller, updates would do is smooth out the sales flow.

If Apple had bumped the G5 a couple of hundred MHz every couple of months, people would be more inclined to buy them. (Oh, my 2.4 has been replaced by a 2.5 - no big deal.)

Today, though, G5 sales must be in the trough (we'll know next week) because people don't want a 1.8 or 2.0 when everybody expects that 3.0 might be here any week. ("Next Tuesday, I swear")

That's one advantage of the PC side - not only do you know the roadmaps, but you know that you won't be made to feel stupid because your big bucks purchase last week is either 40% cheaper this week or 40% faster for the same price.

 

[Dave the Great]

Man, those iBooks are soooo out of date! Whats it been? 3 months? <sarcasm>

No. I thought they were out in October of last year; that would make them 6 months old.

I am hoping that the PBs will get the G5 chip and the iBook will get the new G4 chips people were talking about a month or two ago. And I hope this is done soon, very, very soon.....

 

[aswitcher]

(And kudos to the j_maddison post here as well)
One thing that more frequent, smaller, updates would do is smooth out the sales flow.

If Apple had bumped the G5 a couple of hundred MHz every couple of months, people would be more inclined to buy them. (Oh, my 2.4 has been replaced by a 2.5 - no big deal.)

I dont agree. It should be cheaper for apple to make 1 or 2 jumps every six months, than lots of little ones throughout the year. If they can pull down the price by an annual release but really signficant hike then I would prefer to buy knowing I had just bought a machine that wouldn't be tocuhed for 12 months...

 

[adamfilip]

okay with the speeds you're expecting...you're a dreamer
and if you think apple will ever be including 2 gigs of ram standard,
you're on smack!!!

yes well im overly optimistic.. so..

 

[aswitcher]

yes well im overly optimistic.. so..

I must say everyone seems to buy Apple macs with minimuim ram because Apple are so pricey on their ram. What if they decide to be more aggressive about their costs and also to sell witrh decent minimuims to take bakc this market? Selling a machine with at least half a gig should be normal for Panther and iLife apps. G5s are different and you don't get near their potential until you get a gig, preferably 2 or even 4. Selling G5PMs with a minimum of 1 Gig for single processors and 2 Gig for dual makes allot of sense because thats what they will be configured to...

If Apple's new aggresive policy does soemthing like this I wouldn't be surprised, and if the ram prices were decent (because they bulk by just hi end ram - 512 sticks mostly, with a few 264s and 1 Gigs) then I would be happy...

 

[DreaminDirector]

I came across something interesting crawling through the web looking for info on the powerbook update and I found something over at macmall. I didn't know where to post it, so I started a new thread on it here. I didn't want to clutter up this thread. Anyway, macmall is running a shipping special on ibooks and powerbook until april 12 (monday) until 9pm. I'm as tired and as frustrated as the rest of you on this subject, but I found it interesting.

God, I'm really reading into things now....wishful thinking I guess....