Apple Hit With Class-Action Lawsuit Over Failing 27" iMac Displays

[fixmymac]

Poor choice of examples. The whole antennagate was not a design issue at all. It's as an natural issue that was shown to effect dozens of non Apple phones and was only an issue for some .01% of iPhone owners almost all of whom readily admitted that they live in areas with crap cell phone service in general. Even the Consumer Reports review noted that this issue was only an issue if your service coverage was crap.

And who is to say that this guy wasn't overusing his iMac compared to standard usage models and burned out the properly designed and installed display himself. He does say he was using it as a home media center. That means potentially having it in for a good 2 hours or more at a time, likely with full brightness etc. And if he was using it in his music classes that could mean even more use every day. Could go as high as 8 hours in a near solid stretch. Few of us use our computers that much every day so we wouldn't burn out the display so fast. But he might. Which means it's not a defect at all. Whether anyone in those 320 pages had one or not.

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Says the doctor who has never treated nor met the man. And yet magically knows exactly what is wrong with him and the best treatment.

There is no magic involved at all. Only experience of fixing this particular issue and rather simple logic.

The 27" iMac LCD panel has two LED trays. They are both along the bottom of the panel and meet in the middle. The power is supplied via a cable that enters the very bottom corners and is soldered onto the the LED tray. This gentleman has been told that he need a new LCD panel. Logic dictates that the backlight board has been excluded as the cause. Therefore, the only possible conclusion is that the actual issue is the one I have referred to.

 

[charlituna]

Given how the iPhone and iPad (but particularly the iPhone) threads here are flooded every release date with Europeans looking to score "cheap" Apple merchandise in NYC Apple stores, it seems like a lot of people prefer our pricing model.

And potentially screwing themselves out of their precious consumer protection laws as those laws only apply to transactions that occur in country

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I have a three year 27" iMac which has developed major yellow splotches on the screen. Apparently others have suffered the same, something to do with separating strata or something.

I haven't been aggressive, but Apple's response was "you should have bought AppleCare."

Uhm, no. The product, which is top of the line and hardly cheap, should not have these issues and I should not have to pay several hundred dollars on top of the already premium price to ensure that I don't get stuck with a lemon.

It's $350 tops for any Apple care. Half that for an iMac. Not 'several hundred'.

And it's a the three year old iMac which your comment implies just now has an issue. It's hardly a class of getting a lemon, which is an item that was **** when you bought it and the seller knew it.

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Sorry, but you are quite wrong. I have sent many of my own customers to Apple with products out of warranty buy a few days or even a week or two.

A couple of weeks generally isn't worth the PR fuss. That is the reason they did it. Not because of any law blah blah. They did it because they figure the person would flip their **** and freak out and become a nightmare, potentially filing law suits etc and dealing with that is generally way more expensive than doing the damn repair. But if someone walked in with something that was six months out like this guy, it wouldn't likely be the same case.

 

[fridgeymonster3]

Not so sure a guy in Idaho can apply California consume protection laws as he likely bought from someone in Idaho and those has no buyer/seller contact with anyone in Cali.

He can. A few pages back someone had a similar question, and I explained why the plaintiff can have CA law applied.

 

[charlituna]

In the UK, the general position is that the onus is on the Manufacturer during year 1. In year 2, the onus moves to the customer to show that the fault was present during year 1.

No, it is on the seller not the manufacturer.

 

[fixmymac]

A couple of weeks generally isn't worth the PR fuss. That is the reason they did it. Not because of any law blah blah. They did it because they figure the person would flip their **** and freak out and become a nightmare, potentially filing law suits etc and dealing with that is generally way more expensive than doing the damn repair. But if someone walked in with something that was six months out like this guy, it wouldn't likely be the same case.

I agree that a few days or weeks is maybe a PR thing. However, here in the UK, it definitely is Consumer Laws that help further down the line. I could cite at least a dozen of my own customers who have had free repairs done months out of warranty. I also had one of my 23" Displays replaced 7 months out of warranty.

 

[charlituna]

I wrote a blog about the six year English consumer law (not Scottish, that is five) and wrote in detail how I got my five year old iMac replaced using our wonderful consumer laws. Link: http://bit.ly/AazB2F

The laws likely had nothing to do with you getting it replaced. They did it to get rid of you. Sometimes it's quicker and easier to just say yes than deal with someone who is going to repeatedly be an issue. That you quoted the Sales Goods Act blah blah was probably beside the point. They could have equally have said no and made you file a law suit and won it. But the costs of dealing with that were probably higher than just giving you a new computer and getting you to leave them alone.

They do it in the US as well at times. Again, just to shut folks up.

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I'm still trying to figure out why the lady that spilled coffee on her crotch at McDonald's got money.....

(Apple Care)

Because it wasn't about her spilling the coffee. It was about the burns which would have occurred if the liquid was at a temperature higher than it was supposed to be.

 

[KeegM480]

Additional 2 years, not three.

That is what I meant, additional 2 years that equal 3 years total.

 

[R3k]

Awesome, I currently have the exact same issue on my 2011 27''. Its that badly soldered socket on the bottom left hand side of the LCD

 

[kdarling]

Poor choice of examples. The whole antennagate was not a design issue at all. It's as an natural issue that was shown to effect dozens of non Apple phones ...

Not natural at all. No other phone dropped calls from holding an easily touched but tiny spot with a single finger.

Moreover, Apple admitted that the 4 dropped more calls than the 3GS.

So it was definitely a design issue unique to the iPhone 4. (Apple changed the design with the 4S.)

Apple would've easily found the problem themselves if they hadn't used camouflage cases when testing the devices in the real world.

...and was only an issue for some .01% of iPhone owners almost all of whom readily admitted that they live in areas with crap cell phone service in general.

Apple didn't say it affected less than .01% of iPhone 4 users.

They said it dropped less than one more call per 100 calls, or up to 1% more.

What they left out was the fact that even that small-sounding amount could've radically raised the number of normally dropped calls... which was already pretty high on AT&T at 1.4%... to 2.4%.

(Jobs claimed in the conference that they couldn't give out the AT&T drop rate, which is strange, since AT&T themselves had given out the 1.4% number just a few weeks earlier.)

 

[SavMBP15]

Did you account for taxes ?
The UK price probably includes VAT, the US price probably does not include taxes.

Consumer law in NZ means all products being sold to consumers (vs businesses) must include GST (NZ version of VAT). When I was in the USA 6 weeks ago the prices shown excluded sale taxes, so the advertised price and the ticketed price were never what we actually paid for goods we bought while we were there.

Not including GST is considered a deceptive practice and is illegal.

Read my post, not just look at the numbers.

 

[imageWIS]

Is this guy joking? That stinks his monitor is not working well but it is well past the warranty period.

The A/C on my 4 year old car isn't blowing as cold now as it used to when new - guess I should sue BMW for 10 million lol.

America and these law suit laws seriously need an overhaul so frivolousness can be cut off at the source before tying up court time.

Not working =/= not as good as before.

And 18 months for a display to last is totally unacceptable. My 9 year old Dell 19" square screen still works well for a secondary screen, if it died tomorrow, that would be acceptable If I bought a new Dell screen and died 18 months later, it wouldn't be acceptable. Do you understand the difference?

 

[TJH133]

Poor choice of examples. The whole antennagate was not a design issue at all. It's as an natural issue that was shown to effect dozens of non Apple phones and was only an issue for some .01% of iPhone owners almost all of whom readily admitted that they live in areas with crap cell phone service in general. Even the Consumer Reports review noted that this issue was only an issue if your service coverage was crap.

And who is to say that this guy wasn't overusing his iMac compared to standard usage models and burned out the properly designed and installed display himself. He does say he was using it as a home media center. That means potentially having it in for a good 2 hours or more at a time, likely with full brightness etc. And if he was using it in his music classes that could mean even more use every day. Could go as high as 8 hours in a near solid stretch. Few of us use our computers that much every day so we wouldn't burn out the display so fast. But he might. Which means it's not a defect at all. Whether anyone in those 320 pages had one or not.

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Says the doctor who has never treated nor met the man. And yet magically knows exactly what is wrong with him and the best treatment.

Apple more or less cheated when they pointed to other manfucatures. They had to do a death grip on the phone instead of a pinky finger doing it. On top that they would set those phone in a lower power mode to make it easier for it to fail.

As Kdaring point out it was less than 1 call per 100 increase. That less than 1 call per 100 tells use that it was close to 1. Chances are .9-1.

So given lets take .9. That puts it at over a 60% increase in drop calls 64% to be more exact. Sorry but a 64% increase is well out side standards and clearly Apple iPhone had a massive design flaw being that far out of line. Hell it more than likely increased AT&t drop call rate.

 

[unplugme71]

Your warranty expired over 6 years ago. He was 6 months past his.

6 years is equivalent to 6 months. Got it.

bad analogy is bad.

Doesn't matter - if you didn't buy the extended warranty offered, why should you have a right to sue? Apple has one of the cheapest and best coverage warranties.

Look at Staples - they sell you a $750 laptop with a 350 warranty for 3 years that doesn't cover accidental. Compared to an almost maxed out $3000 MBP thats covered for $349

 

[ani4ani]

To everyone who's complaining about out-of-warranty issues — TOUGH LUCK! Next time buy an Apple Protection Plan! For an item as expensive as an iMac, the APP is a bargain; WORTH IT'S WEIGHT IN GOLD. Apple has the best support I've ever experienced, and I've been using their products for over 20 years. They will spend AS MUCH TIME AS NECESSARY to resolve your issue and the APP bumps your warranty up to 3 Years. They have thee best technicians in the industry and they couldn't be friendlier or more patient.

It is a good job aeroplanes are designed to last more than 12 months...."AppleCare" would give me great comfort!

 

[D.T.]

And who is to say that this guy wasn't overusing his iMac compared to standard usage models and burned out the properly designed and installed display himself. He does say he was using it as a home media center. That means potentially having it in for a good 2 hours or more at a time, likely with full brightness etc. And if he was using it in his music classes that could mean even more use every day. Could go as high as 8 hours in a near solid stretch. Few of us use our computers that much every day so we wouldn't burn out the display so fast. But he might. Which means it's not a defect at all. Whether anyone in those 320 pages had one or not.

I understand your point, but I’m pretty sure even on the short side, the intended lifespan of the iMac display is _way_ longer than your scenario of “8 hours a day” for 18 months as that’s just ~4400 hours. Most LED displays are MTBF rated in the 10K’s (this ViewSonic 24” IPS I’m on is 40,000 hours IIRC). Most of my equipment runs 24 hours a day (my ’11 MBP has run 95% of the available time for the last two years, current uptime is 35 days ).

I don’t think there’s any engineering target for a computer component that limits use to a couple of hours a day for a reasonable life expectancy.

 

[Swytch]

It sucks when things break out of warranty, and maybe we should have consumer protection laws, but we dont, and from what I have read they raise prices, essentially making extended warranties a forced purchase on the consumer, which I dont want.

The fact is, manufacturers warranties are set to a length they deem it can last and you should factor this in to purchase price and consider an extended warranty. One of the main reasons these tend to be only a year is because after a year it starts to become difficult to determine if the defect is from manufacturing or is related to customer use (or environment it was stored in - there are many circumstances that are outside of QC Testing - maybe he's a Smoker?).

It could also be related to how much he uses it or leaves the monitor on or maybe doesnt put the display to sleep when not in use. This brings up the car industry again and the reason why their warranties are time OR mileage. If I drive my car 100,000 miles in the first year I lose the last 4 years of my 5 year warranty. Not sure if we want this applied to electronics, but it could result in the time being extended (but usage will probably happen first) - I know my projector lamps are rated this way (and it should apply to TVs really as well) - I get 3,000 hours from a bulb, then have to replace (All displays have some type of bulb.

Lastly, Im sure the reason for the warranty on this being only 1 year really is due to LG only giving Apple a 1 year warranty. Since Apple used LG parts, this guys problem is really with LG not Apple.... If I buy an Apple Computer from Best Buy are they suddenly responsible for the warranty? If I buy a car from a dealership and have them add optional upgrades, is the dealership now responsible for the warranty instead of the car manufacturer?

 

[Photogdave]

I'm not sure why I'm replying to this ridiculous wall of text, but did you change any hardware such as ram or drives since you obtained it, assuming you purchased it new. If so try putting it back to the original configuration, then see if the problem goes away. Bad ram causes this more than anything else. Otherwise it's 6 months old. It should be under warranty. If your Mac did that wouldn't you send it in?

Redicuous??? Because people are outspoken by BS business practice.

You are correct.....I did have a laptop fail from bad ram once.
I did purchase this new. Nothing has been done to it. I opened it, followed setup steps and thats it.
Ive not even downloaded apps to this Pc.
Its just flat out junk.
Yes, they want me to send it in. But its a work Pc. I travel, I need it everyday, I can not function without it....especially for weeks while they piss around with it god knows how many miles away from me.
I just want them to swap it out.....but of course they wont just do that.
I failed to mention.....this is a bestbuy swap out from a previous Lenovo failure
My first Lenovo P500 failed.....the keyboard illumination quit 3 days after purchase......which was discontinued 3 days after I purchased it.
They started offering mine in a touch screen model with bigger hard drive....same price.
They couldn't get it working again, so they swapped it for this one.
If they had another brand with equivalent features, I would have changed brands but they did not.
This is all well and good if it screws up inside 14 day return policy.
But we're seldom that lucky.
I expect Companies to find me a replacement at closest retail, store where I can go swap it out.....the manufacturer work out cost details with retail store.

 

[Photogdave]

It sucks when things break out of warranty, and maybe we should have consumer protection laws, but we dont, and from what I have read they raise prices, essentially making extended warranties a forced purchase on the consumer, which I dont want.

The fact is, manufacturers warranties are set to a length they deem it can last and you should factor this in to purchase price and consider an extended warranty. One of the main reasons these tend to be only a year is because after a year it starts to become difficult to determine if the defect is from manufacturing or is related to customer use (or environment it was stored in - there are many circumstances that are outside of QC Testing - maybe he's a Smoker?).

It could also be related to how much he uses it or leaves the monitor on or maybe doesnt put the display to sleep when not in use. This brings up the car industry again and the reason why their warranties are time OR mileage. If I drive my car 100,000 miles in the first year I lose the last 4 years of my 5 year warranty. Not sure if we want this applied to electronics, but it could result in the time being extended (but usage will probably happen first) - I know my projector lamps are rated this way (and it should apply to TVs really as well) - I get 3,000 hours from a bulb, then have to replace (All displays have some type of bulb.

Lastly, Im sure the reason for the warranty on this being only 1 year really is due to LG only giving Apple a 1 year warranty. Since Apple used LG parts, this guys problem is really with LG not Apple.... If I buy an Apple Computer from Best Buy are they suddenly responsible for the warranty? If I buy a car from a dealership and have them add optional upgrades, is the dealership now responsible for the warranty instead of the car manufacturer?

I agree.....except we didn't make Apple use sub-par displays built by LG.
And its marketed as a package deal.
All we know is they advertise Supreme products and market as being better than anything on market in build quality and user experience.
Once this Screen issue started, they should replace users system free of charge.....deal with LG directly.
Explain to LG...."We're selling top tier products at a premium and you're killing Apples name. I know its a 1yr warranty but everyone in this room knows it should last way longer than that.
Either shape up or we're changing companies.
I know people that are still using G4's that work great

I was an Engineer for Mercedes plant from 2004-2009.....we did it all the time with suppliers.
They would make cost cutting changes at their plant all time without saying a word to us and occasionally it created an issue. We'd have to call them on it.....prove it.
And for example, JCI...the seat supplier nearly lost their contract over them removing a particular bolt they deemed was useless. Saved .17 per unit
But it created a rattle issue.
Only when SQE VP stepped up with power to switch did that get resolved.
Apple has power to make LG step up with their wallets and should do so.
At $2300....that's $127/mth in 18mths.
He could have a brand new PC laptop every 6 mths at that cost if this was norm using Apple.
At least you have always latest hardware.
Its a plus for us as consumers if Apple loses. Keeps shotty parts in back of their minds all the time.

 

[Mike Oxard]

Says a lot that you can justify this by using the defence that he doesn't want all the money for himself. He bought a product that broke outside of warranty and is sulking like a spoilt brat who thinks the world owes him something so is now suing Apple for $5,000,000 .... this makes no sense and should never be allowed to move forward.

He's not suing Apple for $5M, he's suing for a replacement screen for himself and the other large number of people who bought something sold as a premium product that had a manufacturing defect. I'm fine with a country that doesn't want governement dictating consumer policy, that's your prerogative. But if people spend a lot of money on something that is sold for a premium that is largely based on the superior quality of the product, then manufacturers shouldn't be surprised or offended if people get pissed off and sue when their device breaks after 13 months.

 

[BSben]

Why is there a need to be hostile towards Europeans and their consumer laws in this thread, this is about an US citizen suing a US company. We manage alright here without other countries interfering, not even the most powerful man in the world (Putin, not Obama) can change that.

 

[MyMac1976]

Why is there a need to be hostile towards Europeans and their consumer laws in this thread, this is about an US citizen suing a US company. We manage alright here without other countries interfering, not even the most powerful man in the world (Putin, not Obama) can change that.

Because in America business are the most important, they're almost worshiped. Europeans don't hold this same belief and because you don't share an American belief you're wrong. This stuff will come out in any thread about Apple product quality.

 

[Swytch]

Its a plus for us as consumers if Apple loses. Keeps shotty parts in back of their minds all the time.

A plus and a minus... It would also mean higher prices.

Personally i think the system works fine as it is, if you dont think the manufacturers warranty is long enough, buy an extended warranty or buy a different brand.

Forcing longer warranties only means higher prices (extended warranty will just be built in to the price - and manufacturer extended warranties are usually more costly than third-party alternatives), and essentially amounts to forced gambling (just like auto-insurance being required by state law).

Regardless of all of this, the guy is unfortunately out of warranty, and the US does not currently have laws to protect him. He would better use his time and money trying to get these laws created, but that would only protect future purchases (that will then be more expensive).

No one has every been successful getting a Car manufacturer to replace something out of warranty, why should this iMac be any different?

Just found out my car battery needs replaced and it is barely one month out of warranty - nothing I can do but pay to replace it.

 

[kingtj]

Exactly....

A while back, a good female friend of mine (single mom of 3 kids who barely had any disposable income) saved up to buy what was a real stretch for her ... a 17" iMac with Intel processor. Before that, she only owned hand-me-down Windows PCs and grew tired of all the issues with them.

Anyway, just outside of the 1 year factory warranty period, her display started drawing vertical lines up and down it, which worsened until it was unusable.

I wound up helping her draft an email to the sjobs@apple.com address (known for getting results when all else failed), and someone from Apple contacted her in 24 hours or so by phone, promising the company would do whatever was necessary to get it fixed, at no cost to her.

That turned her into a loyal Apple customer to this day, vs. someone who felt she was stiffed by inflated but empty promises of superior quality.

The whole "buy Applecare!" thing is ok, but doesn't really justify such things as LCD panel failures between the first and second year of operation. 1 year warranty or not -- parts like a display panel in a DESKTOP machine that doesn't get banged around and transported all over the place just shouldn't fail that quickly. Either inferior quality parts were used (inexcusable in a computer that costs as much as Macs do), or a design flaw such as overheating due to insufficient airflow in the case brings it about.

Honestly, I think Apple has traditionally been the type of company who doesn't like to commit to anything more than what's absolutely necessary in writing (such as warranty agreements) -- but was known to "do the right thing" in case by case situations, as they were brought to its attention.

What scares me is due to all of its success, coupled with Steve Jobs no longer around to ensure things are done "his way", some of that is probably going by the wayside.

I had the same problem as this dude, with the same generation iMac, but Apple replaced my screen free of charge because (per the Apple employee explanation) the failure was a type of failure that was not supposed to happen in the product's lifetime (regardless of warranty status).

 

[thekev]

Redicuous??? Because people are outspoken by BS business practice.

You are correct.....I did have a laptop fail from bad ram once.
I did purchase this new. Nothing has been done to it. I opened it, followed setup steps and thats it.
Ive not even downloaded apps to this Pc.
Its just flat out junk.
Yes, they want me to send it in. But its a work Pc. I travel, I need it everyday, I can not function without it....especially for weeks while they piss around with it god knows how many miles away from me.
I just want them to swap it out.....but of course they wont just do that.
I failed to mention.....this is a bestbuy swap out from a previous Lenovo failure
My first Lenovo P500 failed.....the keyboard illumination quit 3 days after purchase......which was discontinued 3 days after I purchased it.
They started offering mine in a touch screen model with bigger hard drive....same price.
They couldn't get it working again, so they swapped it for this one.
If they had another brand with equivalent features, I would have changed brands but they did not.
This is all well and good if it screws up inside 14 day return policy.
But we're seldom that lucky.
I expect Companies to find me a replacement at closest retail, store where I can go swap it out.....the manufacturer work out cost details with retail store.

The ridiculous comment was in how it was presented, yet I responded because of the actual issue. The problem can come up with Apple notebooks as well, and repair times can vary. I haven't had one repaired in a long time, so I don't have any recent data there. They will not swap it out with a new one unless you're within 14 days or its the third failure or whatever. That would be rare. My own issues have been long term ones (swelling batteries, screen problems, dead chargers). I haven't experienced first year problems.

Lastly, Im sure the reason for the warranty on this being only 1 year really is due to LG only giving Apple a 1 year warranty. Since Apple used LG parts, this guys problem is really with LG not Apple.... If I buy an Apple Computer from Best Buy are they suddenly responsible for the warranty? If I buy a car from a dealership and have them add optional upgrades, is the dealership now responsible for the warranty instead of the car manufacturer?

That is not an accurate analogy. Maybe I just don't get the desire to compare computers to cars. Even then it's a bad analogy, because a given car manufacturer doesn't make most if any of its individual parts. They design the vehicle and source parts for final construction. Apple may also outsource production, but it doesn't change who claims credit for the machine. Best Buy is a retailer. Apple merely owns retail stores as part of its operation. The only practical reason for trying to find out who makes the panel is if you wish to avoid a specific part that is known to fail. Even then LG panels are in everything. Some of the most expensive displays outside of highly specialized ones use LG panels. Have a look. Take note that most that say Samsung, Hitachi, NEC, etc for panel are no longer manufactured. You can't just give Apple or any other oem a pass on everything. If a company sells you crap, you have a legitimate gripe with them. If they have a downstream problem with their suppliers, that is their problem. There's nothing you can do to affect that.

Also UK laws regarding retailers are a totally different topic. Those laws simply are what they are, and they dictate who is responsible for rectifying latent issues.

 

[alent1234]

they are going to do discovery and if they find that a higher than normal percentage of computers were failing and apple knew about it, then they will win and apple will have to pay out. like it should

It sucks when things break out of warranty, and maybe we should have consumer protection laws, but we dont, and from what I have read they raise prices, essentially making extended warranties a forced purchase on the consumer, which I dont want.

The fact is, manufacturers warranties are set to a length they deem it can last and you should factor this in to purchase price and consider an extended warranty. One of the main reasons these tend to be only a year is because after a year it starts to become difficult to determine if the defect is from manufacturing or is related to customer use (or environment it was stored in - there are many circumstances that are outside of QC Testing - maybe he's a Smoker?).

It could also be related to how much he uses it or leaves the monitor on or maybe doesnt put the display to sleep when not in use. This brings up the car industry again and the reason why their warranties are time OR mileage. If I drive my car 100,000 miles in the first year I lose the last 4 years of my 5 year warranty. Not sure if we want this applied to electronics, but it could result in the time being extended (but usage will probably happen first) - I know my projector lamps are rated this way (and it should apply to TVs really as well) - I get 3,000 hours from a bulb, then have to replace (All displays have some type of bulb.

Lastly, Im sure the reason for the warranty on this being only 1 year really is due to LG only giving Apple a 1 year warranty. Since Apple used LG parts, this guys problem is really with LG not Apple.... If I buy an Apple Computer from Best Buy are they suddenly responsible for the warranty? If I buy a car from a dealership and have them add optional upgrades, is the dealership now responsible for the warranty instead of the car manufacturer?