Apple Hit With Second Class Action Lawsuit Over 'Defective' Keyboards in Recent MacBook, MacBook Pro Models

[flyinmac]

These greedy lawyers are ust looking for a quick payout!

...excuse the typo, I have a couple keys that aren't functional.

You can open a website and keep clicking on links and copying and pasting and words you need to compensate for keys that don’t work.

Sure it’s time consuming. But imagine everything you’ll learn while clicking around the Internet on your word search.

You laugh??? I’ve done it before. Strangely I only remember doing this on Macs. Hmmmm. Naw... can’t be Apple design issues.

I do have to say, the keyboards I still love and miss are the original IBM keyboards. From the PC, PC XT, and PC AT.

IBM knew keyboards. Being the best business typewriter manufacturer translated very well into computers.

Noisy as heck. But solid performance. And yeah, we knew which person in the office was pretending to be busy. Ummm..., awful quiet over there.

Sadly, progress came. And took my beloved keyboard with it. If I knew then what I knew now, I’d have told them they’d lose an arm if they tried to remove the old keyboard from my desk.

 

[Quu]

These laptops are terrible. I'm so glad I was able to pickup the last 2015 model before the redesign. Hopefully by the time this fails and I have to upgrade they'll have de-****ed these things.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Apple makes me sad. Confused product lines, poorly considered hardware designs that not only fail prematurely but also feature repairs that cost far more and are more difficult than any PC, and more software issues than anyone should expect (i.e. they still have not fixed file sharing dropbox in macOS).

Why doesn't Apple seem to learn? Gluing the battery into the computer such that a simple battery replacement requires disassembly of the entire computer and replacement of the entire top case IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN. Keyboards that not only lack any significant water resistance (much less fail from slight dust) costing $700 (and again) requires disassembly of the entire computer and replacement of the top case because the keyboard is riveted to the case IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN. Soldered storage/RAM IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN.

These sorts of idiotic design choices are what prevent me from buying another Mac. It makes no sense to me that if RAM/Storage goes bad, it is a $800 repair. If the crummy keyboard goes bad, it is a $700 repair. When the battery needs replacement (and they always do), it is a $250 "service". For even a garbage PC, any of these repairs costs less than $100, take less than 10 minutes, and often can be done at home (and you don't even need bizarre specialty screwdrivers). Why Apple, why!?!

Simple: because we keep buying.

From their perspective it's record quarter after record quarter. Money talks and the money says that all such decisions must be right. Swimming in the vault full of cash says they are geniuses having been getting everything right for years and years. Hop into earning report threads and see us consumers gushing like our own child won "best in show" or "best student" etc... and getting after anyone else who dares take a poke at other ways that PR spin can be interpreted. Why should Apple have any concept that something is wrong?

Even this very thread has the usual players faulting lawyers and fellow consumers for daring to take action against a corporation just because their (not my) Mac's keyboard has this problem. Apparently corporation > consumers... except when it's any other corporation... especially when another corporation has any kind of conflict with Apple or just outperforms Apple is some- any- way. And obviously fellow consumers (people much more like us than we are with any corporation) with this problem should just lay out the $700 to buy a keyboard+ replacement and/or throw out a Mac barely a few years old and buy another.

Until Apple feels pain (in the wallet), they probably can't tell that anything they do is wrong (cue 5 or 10 fellow consumers jumping on that sentence and challenging me: "how dare you imply Apple is wrong about anything! They aren't! YOU are wrong! Troll. Samsung shill", etc).

Or maybe they do know but the mountains of money that keeps pouring in makes changing a hassle that doesn't seem worth enough: "If it ain't broke..." (measured in revenue & profit instead of butterfly mechanism bugs and similar).

 

[theluggage]

Either I got lucky or it comes down to individual typing technique.

Probably got lucky. Even with a 1 in 10 failure rate (pretty shoddy) the "luck of the draw" would leave plenty of people with flawless machines while a fair number would have two or 3 failed machines on the trot.

Or, there could also be environmental factors - what sort of dust is there in the air in Arizona vs. Washington State? Let alone Melbourne vs. some wee village in the Scottish Highlands.

Anyway, its 2018 and we shouldn't need to be wearing hairnets and working in clean-room conditions to use our computers - I'm a complete slob and heavy-handed keyboard-basher and I've never had a problem with my crumb-encrusted scissor-action keyboards.

Its similar to the charge cable fraying issue - I've always found them pretty bombproof (even with half-a-dozen colleagues who would have bugged me if their cables broke - as frequently happened with the old phono-style plugs) but some people seem to have enormous trouble (my pet theory: air conditioning set to stun + bright sunlight = brittle plastic - don't ask for citations).

 

[aevan]

These laptops are terrible. I'm so glad I was able to pickup the last 2015 model before the redesign. Hopefully by the time this fails and I have to upgrade they'll have de-****ed these things.

The situation with the keyboard reliability is terrible. Everything else is better, in my opinion, to the 2015 model. A shame about the keyboard, though. 100%.
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Simple: because we keep buying.

Until Apple feels pain (in the wallet), they probably can't tell that anything they do is wrong

Exactly. But the best way to make them feel it is to insist on top-down replacements under warranty (unless it's out of warranty, then I feel for you). This is costing them. I just hope that forces them to do something.

 

[forerunnerg34]

You are suppose to buy the extra Apple Magic Keyboard.

 

[magbarn]

More competent? He's done an amazing job during his tenure, Steve Jobs personally selected him to be his replacement. They're coming close to being the most profitable business ON THE PLANET.

And as for Mac hating, he loves the Mac, he's been quite vocal on it.

Back on topic, interesting statistic from the head of my local Apple store. The new butterfly keyboard has LOWER return rates then the previous MacBook Pro keyboard.

Don't just say it, SHOW ME! lol...

 

[sracer]

Why doesn't Apple seem to learn? Gluing the battery into the computer such that a simple battery replacement requires disassembly of the entire computer and replacement of the entire top case IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN. Keyboards that not only lack any significant water resistance (much less fail from slight dust) costing $700 (and again) requires disassembly of the entire computer and replacement of the top case because the keyboard is riveted to the case IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN. Soldered storage/RAM IS NOT A GOOD DESIGN
....
Why Apple, why!?!

Apple learned. They learned that it doesn't matter how defective their products are there are more than enough customers willing to buy and defend their purchases that there is no reason for them to do anything differently.

The company has done the hard work in the early years, of weathering harsh criticisms for their design decisions...of building a brand and reputation. They've come out the other side having the last laugh... not having enough armored vehicles to haul their cash to the bank. Now is the time to cash in... cut corners to improve profit. If quality suffers without affecting profit, march on. They are riding on the momentum of their reputation more than on the value of their current products. I don't blame them... but I don't have to contribute to that either. And I don't.

 

[Quu]

The situation with the keyboard reliability is terrible. Everything else is better, in my opinion, to the 2015 model. A shame about the keyboard, though. 100%.

Lack of HDMI, Lack of USB-A, Lack of Magsafe, poor to type on keyboard with no travel, oversized trackpad, lack of top row tactile feel function keys, lack of SD card reader. This laptop (2016-2017) have dongle-fever.

These are things that matter to me, all changed on the new model. To me the 2015 15" rMBP is the best laptop Apple has released to date, the 2016-2017 models don't come close to that.

 

[Geardo_Ranger]

There's nothing wrong. The keyboard isn't defective - it's just food debris get under the mechanical keyboard and the keys stop from being pressed down.

4 people claim compressed air isn't fixing that and are inflating the numbers to make it seem like a bigger problem than it is.

This "law firm" has a history of suing corporations for BS, and then running off with all the money after the settlement. We need tort reform in the USA to stop these troll law firms.

I think you should also pay attention some of the other cases where the space bar and other keys get stuck in the down position and cannot be released. It is not just debris issues. There are a lot more issues other than debris happening with this keyboard model.

 

[MrGuder]

The 2015 model is still on sale. That's the last good one. All regular ports and regular keyboard.

I tried the 2015 and even did a side by side comparison ordering a 2017 MBP and while I agree it’s nice to have a USB ports and a great keyboard.

There were 2 things that really bothered me with the 2015 it was the sound is not that great, playing movies side by side the 2017 has much better dialog in voices and is generally has a much louder sound level crisp and clearer.

The other thing was the contrast and brightness. The 2015 didn’t get bright enough and the colors didn’t pop. The 2017 has a beautiful display that pops out its probably the most brilliant display I’ve seen on a laptop.

I’ve been lucky with my 2017 MBP 15” no problems with any keys.

 

[Mainsail]

Great to see these class action lawsuits. Stick it to em. Only way Apple will learn.

Form has taken priority over function at Apple. Stupid compromise; trade-off marginally thinner design for defective unrepairable keyboard....dumb.

 

[Medic311]

time to stop rewarding apple's mediocrity

 

[FelixDerKater]

Of all the things they could choose to "innovate".

 

[spazzcat]

Where do you get this idea that there is an automatic triggered recall on a product? These companies decide whether they recall a product or not. Apple has never to my knowledge issued a recall over anything even when it's been caught red-handed with a major design flaw. It's offered to fix something for free, eventually.

I had a white iBook in the days before genius bars that Apple had me send in three times saying it had no idea what was going on. Only to then admit later publicly that it was a known issue with the video driver and offered to fix computers for people. Still, even in that case there was no recall.

Microsoft has had major problems with its line of Surface computers, to the point where Consumer Reports won't recommend them anymore. And still, no recall. The lack of a recall is not evidence of the lack of a problem in tech.

Offering a fix for something is a form of a recall. Your car has a recall they don't replace your car, they offer you a fix.

 

[jaduffy007]

Just to add to the chorus. The butterfly mechanism is very unreliable and fragile. The company I work for (web developers) had to buy extra MBPs as backups as it became routine for MBP keyboards to require repair through Apple repair service. $$$$. Most of the devs eventually surrendered to buying external keyboards (mechanical keyboards). 2015 MBPs are in high demand due to the keyboard (and better connectivity!!). Please Apple...redesign the keyboard for all Apple laptops.

 

[Love Divine]

I had always wanted a Macbook. Finally came time to buy a new laptop. As I didn’t game anymore, I sprung for the 2017 rMBP. Haven’t had problems but this definitely has put a damper on my enthusiasm for this thing.

 

[smirking]

I do have to say, the keyboards I still love and miss are the original IBM keyboards. From the PC, PC XT, and PC AT.

Sadly, progress came. And took my beloved keyboard with it.

You know you can still get a pretty close replica, yeah? And it's not very hard to get your hands on vintage ones either. I have almost a half-dozen IBM Model-M's in my collection. Sadly, I can't really use them anymore. Noise isn't the only issue with those boards. They take a lot of force to use and my hands can't take it anymore.

The main reason I happen to like the butterfly switches is that they don't take much force to press. You have to develop a light touch, but once you do, they're surprisingly RSI friendly for some hand injuries.

 

[expiredyogurt]

while the iphone are improving, the mac is actually getting progressively worse and worse. i hated the new keyboard so much that i really hope my 2015 mbp will last a lifetime assuming i live til 90. i actually like the chicklet keyboard and it hits the sweet spot but man this butterfly keyboard is just terrible

 

[konradsa]

Serves them right. These keyboards are the reason I am forced to sell my MacBook and go back to a PC laptop. Not only does the keyboard have a horrible typing feeling and ergonomics, but constantly sticking keys and likely costly repairs down the road are unacceptable.

 

[femike]

Good. Unfortunately class action lawsuits are the only thing that make them listen, so I hope the action is very successful.
Its sad state affairs that this is needed for Apple to take notice. As the vigorous pursuit of profits go up, the blinders also go up.

 

[HiRez]

Good. Hopefully these lawsuits point to a keyboard redesign in the next MBP. I actually think Apple (they're not stupid) was expecting them to come eventually, so I wouldn't expect it to hold up the release of the new MBP.

At the very least Apple will likely be on the hook for all out of warranty fixes on the 2016/17 machines.

And by extension, hopefully teaches them a lesson about making ridiculous design decisions like you have to replace a big chunk of the computer just to replace the keyboard. This is not good for consumers and it's not good for Apple either, as they will discover when they need to foot the bill for all these replacements that will be way more expensive and way more labor intensive than they should be.

Honestly, I hope they get hit with large punitive damages as well, and I say that as even an AAPL shareholder, because $ is the only thing that will force Tim Cook's Apple to listen and change (to be fair, maybe Steve Jobs' Apple too).

 

[NovemberWhiskey]

Maybe that's not such a daft idea?

Apple are good at haptics - the Magic Trackpad 2 with "force click" is spookily convincing and feels as if it has almost as much travel as a butterfly keyboard - despite having none. If they could create a touch keyboard, ultra thin, totally sealed and immune to dust but yet with the same illusion of travel you get with the trackpad then they might actually have something special. Its easier to get used to a new "feel" when typing if it comes with benefits like being dust, grease and beer-proof and could be cleaned with a damp cloth.

...a proper "pro" line that prioritised power and versatility over size (and revived the old, really good and proven scissor keys), alongside the stunning ultrabook designs would be nice too, though.

The touchpad actually does have travel. You can see it move if you press down on it.

 

[flyinmac]

You know you can still get a pretty close replica, yeah? And it's not very hard to get your hands on vintage ones either. I have almost a half-dozen IBM Model-M's in my collection. Sadly, I can't really use them anymore. Noise isn't the only issue with those boards. They take a lot of force to use and my hands can't take it anymore.

The main reason I happen to like the butterfly switches is that they don't take much force to press. You have to develop a light touch, but once you do, they're surprisingly RSI friendly for some hand injuries.

Yes, I’ve seen the current production models from the company that claims that they built the original keyboards for IBM. Possibly true, I haven’t investigated.

But, unfortunately the price they want is out of my budget priority at the moment. But I’m sure it’s worth it.

I have a a Microsoft Ergonomic keyboard that’s been on my desk for over 10 years. So I can justify $150 on a 10 to 20 year device.

I have bad hands. So the ergonomic keyboard helps. But I can type very well on some straight boards and not at all on others.

It seems more based on angle, actual key spacing, and such than how light the keys are.

So I do need to sit down at an original keyboard before I invest money to make sure it’s compatible with my hands today. But they are definitely the best quality I’ve ever seen.

Sadly I don’t see used ones around anymore. And the few I do see think they’re gold. So then I look at them like I’d just buy the new production. Lol.

I have several computers on my desk. Only one has the ergonomic keyboard. The others have straight boards that I found to be comfortable as well.

Dell keyboards and me don’t get along. It’s like typing on that stupid chicklet keyboard IBM jokingly shipped with the PCjr until people revolted.
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The touchpad actually does have travel. You can see it move if you press down on it.

A touchpad keyboard is a reasonable concept. But it does have the issue of angle and tactile.

You’re fingers are not at the same angle for each keystroke. So there needs to be compensation for that factor that a fully flat key surface would struggle with.

I hate typing on touch screens.

But it is a theoretical possibility for a keyboard. And has been done before.

I wouldn’t be a buyer. I touch type. Tactile and angle are important to touch typing. You don’t get that on a flat surface.

The next best ideal option will be essentially air typing. Based on memory. Sensors can register finger motion without physical contact. But we’re a few years from mass production on that.

 

[Glideslope]

I see. So what should they have used to make the switches?

You can say a lot of things about Apple, but I don’t think skimping on materials can be one of them.

They probably should have sent the butterfly switch back to the lab instead of rolling the dice with deploying that design.

The reality is undeniable at today’s Apple. Be it an OS release, a poor design, or offering products the margins in no way reflect the quality its Tim’s Apple. What ever the future holds he owns it. Period.