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I can understand wanting to make the stream quality as good as possible but getting into bed with Comcast with the "content" is a big big negative for me and will affect the way I view Apple and its products. We'll see how this plays out. I am a permanent "cord cutter" with cable TV but will not spend that same monthly charge for ala carte programming over the net.

The bottom line is that Comcast and the other cable companies have far too much control of the Internet pipeline. I'm hoping that wireless will eventually change that.
 
say it isn't so!

I can not think of two more diametrically opposed companies other than apple and comcast. I hope this rumor is just that, a rumor or that apple will come to their senses and distance themselves from the great satan comcast!
 
This is progress? No thank you. The whole point of AppleTV (at least for me) is to NOT have cable. I'm a cord cutter. What's the use if the cable company is still in play? Forget it. I'd like to see cable television go out of business some day!

Do you get your Internet from satellite or cellular data? Because you are still using a cable company otherwise.
 
I've been thinking along the same lines, but I would try to go wireless and acquire an existing infrastructure, buy Verizon (if you can afford it, market cap is $194B) or maybe Sprint ($36B). Network is already mostly there, no physical lines to run. Sell off all the crap you don't need, which is probably most of the company, like all the stores, office buildings and real estate, sales and marketing teams, stadium and race car sponsorships, etc.) to recoup a big chunk of the acquisition cost.

Then start selling wireless service for iOS devices and possibly even non-iOS devices, and home service. If they could sign up 30M customers at an average of $60 per month, that's $22B per year, to start. No doubt Apple could make the plans cheaper, more useful, and less infuriating than they currently are. I realize this would be US-only at first and there would be regulatory hurdles, but you have to start somewhere.


At first I thought Apple would buy Netflix, but now I agree with this. Maybe Apple is moving towards a true "Apple Network" (phone, internet, tv, cloud storage, everything else). It could be done. I'm sure there are regulation hurdles, etc. Anytime you're dealing with the govt things get ridiculous, but $150 billion gives you a lot of options.

I drank the Apple kool-aid a long time ago so I would buy into it, as I'm sure would many others. Would be nice to not have to decide if I want to change carriers when i upgrade to a new iphone. Or, if it's truly wireless then I don't have to worry about who controls the internet in my area (and is my only option). No doubt, it would be expensive because everything is with them. But, in the end, if I could deal only with Apple for all of my media needs, and have the option to only buy the services or level that I wanted, well, that "Just works"
 
This is progress? No thank you. The whole point of AppleTV (at least for me) is to NOT have cable. I'm a cord cutter. What's the use if the cable company is still in play? Forget it. I'd like to see cable television go out of business some day!

Who do you pay for your internet, cord cutter?
 
Apple gutted the music industry and the cable companies don't want apple to do the same thing to them.

So says the music industry. Everyone else understands Apple saved the music industry. It was only when iTunes unexpectedly took off every music exec on the planet quickly forgot just a few years back people idea of obtain new songs was via the likes of Napster and P2P networks. Typical music industry ignorance and greed then ensued. But I think it's fair to say the music industry is a lot healthier now than in 2001.

As for Apple gutting the cable industry, Netflix, Hulu and the like are already doing just that. The final blow may come depending on how the S.Ct. rules on Aereo. That's going to be huge.
 
How about ...

... if Apple buys Comcast/TWC/Sony (whoever) "subscriptions"?
And makes that content available on the iTV in its typically logical, easy to use Apple form so we can simply pick & pay Apple for the individual content we want - without us ever knowing or having to know the source?
 
I can not think of two more diametrically opposed companies other than apple and comcast. I hope this rumor is just that, a rumor or that apple will come to their senses and distance themselves from the great satan comcast!

How about Apple and Walmart. ;)

Business never says never when it's convenient or necessary.
 
Every one of these threads are always the same. One crowd seeing Apple as some kind of savior who can step in, kick out the existing middlemen (cable companies), still give us everything "we" want to watch, somehow maintain the (profit) motivation for the creation of the new shows "we'll" want to watch in the future, etc, while getting a nice cut for Apple, yet cutting our monthly costs for television to a fraction of what we pay now.

A segment of these people want "commercial free" too, ignoring that it's the other people's money (running commercials on those 200 channels "we" never watch) that helps subsidize the "as is" model so that we get what we DO want to watch at the prices we pay now. But we want to kill those channels even though we never have to see one of those commercials (akin to wanting to kill the cell towers in all the places we never visit).

The math is always done wrong too: 200 channels / $100 (per month) = 50 cents per channel. I only watch 10 channels. 10 times 50 cents = $5. My bill should be $5 per month. Cut the cash flows to any business model by 90% or more and that model will significantly collapse. And Apple won't be nearly as interested in getting 30% of $5 (I think Apple wants 30% on top of the $100 "we" pay now). And just the OPM revenues from commercials mostly running on 200 channels "I" never watch works out to about $54/month per household.

Nevertheless, for all of this dream, we hang our hats on 2 things:
  1. Ignore the broadband rate as part of our money-saving calculations AND imagine that whatever we pay for broadband now will remain constant
  2. the owners of those broadband pipes on which an Apple replacement completely depends will just roll over and let Apple take their lucrative TV subscription revenues

Existing cord cutters are in the minority, meaning there is not enough pain from them yet for the broadband pipe owners to deal with that "problem." If the masses made that move, the Comcasts, etc would deal with the problem just like the cell phone bandwidth pipe owners dealt with it: ever-tightening tiers for "high bandwidth users". Why "we" pretend that won't happen, I just don't understand (as many of these companies are the SAME companies in wireless- same executives thinking of the same "innovations").

And if they do (tighten wired broadband tiers), where are you going to go? Isn't the other "competitor" in your area (if you are lucky enough to have more than one broadband provider) in the TV subscription business too? When AT&T "unlimited" cellular data was switched to "unlimited*" and then "tiered" could we switch to Verizon or Sprint for huge wireless bandwidth cost savings? We've all already seen this movie in just the last few years. This is the sequel and the story doesn't have a different ending.

As a few have pointed out, the ONLY way to drive some kind of major model change is Apple MUST show all of the other players- including those who own the broadband pipes through which Apple's replacement will flow- how they are going to make MORE- not less- money while cutting Apple in too. Since we're the source of "more" or "less" money, the replacement model will have to come by us paying "more" not less.

OR, if big cable is Satan, etc, then an Apple-relacement dream solution will require some kind of global reach innovation that would make it possible for us to be directly connected to iCloud without having to utilize the broadband pipes in place now owned by the Comcasts, etc of the world. A few have suggested Apple buys Verizon or Sprint but I doubt masses-level, on-demand HD video could be distributed over 4G bandwidth (if the masses made the switch). But even if it was possible, it seems Apple would carve that bandwidth out favoring iPhone (too) and this would still be a solution for only a portion of the world.

I think the solution down that path would be to buy DISH and repurpose it in this direction but even that is limited to North America. However, it would yield relatively quick, national reach. But even there, I just don't see it. To me this looks like a Star Trek "subspace" communications solution where the connection to iCloud would work from anywhere on earth or within many light-years. See a few rumors about a massive new source of (probably wireless) data bandwidth and then the dream might get some legs. Until then, I suggest hoping for the best in these deals with the devil… you know, just like the iPhone deal with AT&T.
 
/facepalm

I never understand these "it replaces the cable box" items. The entire reason I buy one of these boxes is to be a "cord cutter" and I don't want to have to subscribe to cable/etc. to use it. Yet another example of the industry not understanding what people want (or more likely refusing to understand it).

I've been a cord cutter for 2 years, my internet comes from an Internet Provider (not a cable/tv company), and I've not looked back. I subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, and I get Amazon as part of my Prime. It definitely takes some adjustments, and I do miss a few shows, but it is what it is.
 
I dont get all the backlash. I read this as the aTV will more or less become the cable box. So your telling me I wont have to rent a box from comcast and apple will build and create the ui for my cable box? I'm in....

Apple has been trying unsuccessfully for years to wrangle the content from the sources for years. Its not going to happen. The install base is way to big with cable/sat providers. They are not going to let apple in directly. This is the next best thing. Its not like it was going to be cheaper if apple had the content. Hell as it stands now apple is $5 to rent a movie and red box is $1.

Stop thinking apple is going to save you money. They can make you feel a little better about what you get for your money by giving you a premium experience...that you will pay for.
 
I think your logic is flawed. You as an individual paid for a certain speed. That is in the contract. Comcast cant then start throttling your speed because you watch tv less. Look what happened to ATT.



But they could put a cap on your data use or raise your rates because you use more internet and they lost revenue on TV to third party services.

----------

/facepalm

I never understand these "it replaces the cable box" items. The entire reason I buy one of these boxes is to be a "cord cutter" and I don't want to have to subscribe to cable/etc. to use it. Yet another example of the industry not understanding what people want (or more likely refusing to understand it).

I've been a cord cutter for 2 years, my internet comes from an Internet Provider (not a cable/tv company), and I've not looked back. I subscribe to Netflix, Hulu, and I get Amazon as part of my Prime. It definitely takes some adjustments, and I do miss a few shows, but it is what it is.

For much of the US, there isn't a choice for an ISP that isn't Comcast, Verizon or another cable provider.
 
What if Apple will take care of delivering ALL THE SET TOP BOXES for Comcast customers?

This way, AppleTV will be everywhere, which give customers access to not only TV contents, but also games, apps, etc. This will make A LOT MORE money for both Comcast and Apple. Right now, Comcast can only make money on contents and Apple can make money in Games, apps, etc. I'm not sure who's making more money, but if they can come to an agreement, then both will make a bunch more money and Apple will have some kind of negotiating power because now Comcast will become more attractive with Apple's set top box. This might be something that Steve meant by "finally cracked it". :cool:
 
I dont get all the backlash. I read this as the aTV will more or less become the cable box. So your telling me I wont have to rent a box from comcast and apple will build and create the ui for my cable box? I'm in....

Apple has been trying unsuccessfully for years to wrangle the content from the sources for years. Its not going to happen. The install base is way to big with cable/sat providers. They are not going to let apple in directly. This is the next best thing. Its not like it was going to be cheaper if apple had the content. Hell as it stands now apple is $5 to rent a movie and red box is $1.

Stop thinking apple is going to save you money. They can make you feel a little better about what you get for your money by giving you a premium experience...that you will pay for.
Why would Comcast look to Apple to create their cable box/UI when they already are building out their own platform with Xfinity X2? That UI looks 1000% better than Apple's current ATV UI.

http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/introducing-x2
 
bring it

$50 a month for 30MB/s down 5MB/s up (consistent) and basic channels. everything else a la carte, no contracts, service managed by apple not comcast. Access all content from any apple device anywhere in the world. billing/access through apple ID.

sign me up.
 
Comcast holds the key to delivery. Apple needs Comcast more. Why would Comcast lose revenue to give Apple a good deal when Apple will be taking their customers? And Comcast has to deliver the content to your home making less than if they did it on their own. Don't you think that internet access rates would rise to compensate for this?


Why would software developers move their Apps to the Mac App store and give away 30% of their income? Exposure. Most sales even at a lower price and Apple handles everything for them.

Why would the music industry sell songs through iTunes when they could do it themselves and keep that 30%? Apple has totally changed the industry's minds on that and now music is DRM free!!! (and we've got iTunes match!). I think everyone sees that they were wrong on this originally.

Why Comcast?
You've seen a "few" people here complain about Comcast, what if Apple helped improve that image? What if Apple improves everyone's Comcast experience like they did for music and apps/software? Even if Apple could just get more people buying Comcast's internet so that people can use the "new" AppleTV with dedicated streams comcast could have more internet users (most sales).

But Apple will use more data of Comcast!
Internet speeds have gotten progressively faster throughout the years and have dropped significantly in price since original prices (what'd you used to pay for dial-up?). When you stream Apple video from Comcast, you use Comcast's internet connection, if they have partnerships with Apple they could have dedicated connections to Apple and not use their internet connection (which they pay for) for that streaming video (they'd sort of be on their own network). I'm not saying they are doing it that way, but it's possible.

Economies of scale (did I use that right?)
If I connect two locations in my network with fiber (that I previously used internet for), I've now got super-faster connections between the locations and now I'm not using as internet bandwidth to connect those locations. Plus, I can now have one connection to the internet [that can be shared over new network] instead of two and save money. Imagine this on much larger scale for streaming video. This would also save Apple money connecting to the Internet if they have a direct connection to Comcast's network (save money there to give Comcast some ca$h for this deal).

I'm sure there's a lot more ways/ideas that I haven't thought of. These are just some of the first ones to come to mind. (And this isn't even announced yet.)

Gary
 
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For much of the US, there isn't a choice for an ISP that isn't Comcast, Verizon or another cable provider.

I actually doubt that. I get my internet from Megapath and I know there are lots of companies like Megapath that can provide you internet services as long as you have copper coming to your location. Yes it's not as cheap as a cable company (as you're buying business class internet), but it's still significantly cheaper than getting cable.
 
Why would Comcast look to Apple to create their cable box/UI when they already are building out their own platform with Xfinity X2? That UI looks 1000% better than Apple's current ATV UI.

Apple is the money magic company that's been transforming media and digital sales. That's why :)

I'm serious here. They're kind of popular, make lots of money and have a pretty decent image...

Gary

----------

As I understand it, the idea is that they'd be prioritizing traffic to their PAID cable content flowing to your Apple TV.

You being a non-cable internet-only subscriber, wanna take a guess where your Netflix traffic gets prioritized?

It's still a rumors non-deal so far. (who know what will stand in the way).

I don't know about Netflix, but if Apple makes this deal, I know where my iTunes traffic is getting prioritized.

Nothing stopping Netflix from making the same deal. Comcast is pushing the Netflix data to my house regardless if they ha a deal or now. Why not have both companies save internet connection costs by setting up a direct connection between the companies (and other financial agreements).

Gary
 
Why would software developers move their Apps to the Mac App store and give away 30% of their income? Exposure. Most sales even at a lower price and Apple handles everything for them.

Why would the music industry sell songs through iTunes when they could do it themselves and keep that 30%? Apple has totally changed the industry's minds on that and now music is DRM free!!! (and we've got iTunes match!). I think everyone sees that they were wrong on this originally.

Why Comcast?
You've seen a "few" people here complain about Comcast, what if Apple helped improve that image? What if Apple improves everyone's Comcast experience like they did for music and apps/software? Even if Apple could just get more people buying Comcast's internet so that people can use the "new" AppleTV with dedicated streams comcast could have more internet users (most sales).

But Apple will use more data of Comcast!
Internet speeds have gotten progressively faster throughout the years and have dropped significantly in price since original prices (what'd you used to pay for dial-up?). When you stream Apple video from Comcast, you use Comcast's internet connection, if they have partnerships with Apple they could have dedicated connections to Apple and not use their internet connection (which they pay for) for that streaming video (they'd sort of be on their own network). I'm not saying they are doing it that way, but it's possible.

Economies of scale (did I use that right?)
If I connect two locations in my network with fiber (that I previously used internet for), I've now got super-faster connections between the locations and now I'm not using as internet bandwidth to connect those locations. Plus, I can now have one connection to the internet [that can be shared over new network] instead of two and save money. Imagine this on much larger scale for streaming video. This would also save Apple money connecting to the Internet if they have a direct connection to Comcast's network (save money there to give Comcast some ca$h for this deal).

I'm sure there's a lot more ways/ideas that I haven't thought of. These are just some of the first ones to come to mind. (And this isn't even announced yet.)

Gary

Does Apple have a substantial base of TV customers who don't use Comcast, Verizon, etc as an ISP or cable provider? Is there a lucrative new market for revenue for them that Apple can provide that the don't already have themselves? Key questions.

----------

I actually doubt that. I get my internet from Megapath and I know there are lots of companies like Megapath that can provide you internet services as long as you have copper coming to your location. Yes it's not as cheap as a cable company (as you're buying business class internet), but it's still significantly cheaper than getting cable.

Where I am, there is a choice of two, Comcast or FIOS. Copper is on it's way out and has been for a while.
 
Why would Comcast look to Apple to create their cable box/UI when they already are building out their own platform with Xfinity X2? That UI looks 1000% better than Apple's current ATV UI.

http://corporate.comcast.com/news-information/news-feed/introducing-x2

I already told you why. Consumers don't want to dance w/ Comcast unless they have to. Comcast can have X2 just like Windows has Surface. It means nothing if those products don't result in attracting new customers. Apple branded products are still desirable. So it's a way for Comcast to get additional revenue from consumers that ordinarily would not subscribe to Comcast. Also as big as Comcast is, not everyone is in a Comcast market, so again, partnering with Apple extended Comcast's franchised territories.
 
Apple is the money magic company that's been transforming media and digital sales. That's why :)

I'm serious here. They're kind of popular, make lots of money and have a pretty decent image...

Doesn't really matter to me I guess as I have DirecTV and nothing I've heard about would get me to leave it. I use Apple TV for AirPlay and certain apps like HBO Go. But I don't see anything that would have me dropping my DirecTV subscription.
 
Well if the internet is slow, the congestion is probably happening before the stream hits Comcast. The last mile is likely to be less congested than other parts of the internet.

What happens if Comcast declines to pay Apple a share of the subscription revenue? Is Apple going to prevent users of Comcast from using a cable-card in this hypothetical box? If this is the case, people are less likely to buy Apple's box.

If they've got a deal, they might set up their own connection between their networks avoid this congestion. That might be part of the deal. This could save both companies LOTS of dollars on internet connections and prevent this bottlenecking. Comcast has to pass the data anyways, why not pass it more efficiently and save money. (I'm not sure about the backbone structure to Comcast between all the stats to determine if this would even work, Apple has the money to invest in this infrastructure regardless.)

Can you even imagine Comcast's and Apple's internet costs?

I'm not sure what subscription revenue, but if they're supposed to share and they don't, they'd be in breach of contract. It's going to be what every deal they hypothetically work out (for this rumor).

Gary
 
I actually doubt that. I get my internet from Megapath and I know there are lots of companies like Megapath that can provide you internet services as long as you have copper coming to your location. Yes it's not as cheap as a cable company (as you're buying business class internet), but it's still significantly cheaper than getting cable.

People also have satellite options to choose from, so it's not like they're completely stuck with one option.

...but if they want a high speed connection for relatively cheap, they usually only have their cable company to choose from. I looked up Megapath for reference, and it's $199 for a 5x5 T1 line. That's far too expensive for your average consumer, and doesn't offer that much for the price. Satellite is a little better, with 10Mbps downloads for $50, but that's not fast enough to stream video in anything but bare basic quality. Plus, I hear satellite suffers from high latency, as well.

If you really want a good connection, most people only have one option for their area. Everything else is the desperation choice.
 
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