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Apple in Talks with Sony about Blu-ray Drives
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You can go buy an external Blu-ray drive for data today. It just can't be used to play video. Go buy one.
2nd that, when Blu-Ray is added to the Mini that's my HTPC for the basement home cinema.
Mike R(mtbdudex) DIY Home Theatre/Basement Thread (4 year project done in 2008!)
It's not about the quality on your screen (although some people would argue that you CAN see the difference on a 15" screen because you're so close). It's about compatibility with your home BR collection.
I get so tired of hearing this. MBA is not a crippled computer any more than a convertible is a crippled SUV. It's for people who want the ultimate in portability and don't need to carry optical with them.
Then don't. What does that have to do with the discussion?
I see you've re-written Econ 101. Nice job.
That would explain why DVD disks are still $29.99 (which is where they started), RAM still costs $500 per MB, a 4 MHz CPU costs $1,000, and VHS tapes still cost $19.99. Oh, wait.....
Since most new technologies have been offered as options until the cost came down enough to make them standard, I doubt that you have to worry about it. But those of us who DO want it, would be willing to pay for it if it becomes available.
Even beyond that, there is a large group of people with fast internet who don't have the ability to handle something as 'complicated' as downloading a movie. That's why there are so many VCRs still flashing 00:00.
No, it's a pet project of some developers that, for some ungodly reason want to run the original XBox media center on their Macs.
Magnetic media degrades rapidly over time. Even when not in use, magnetic discs only have 10 - 20 year life span and that is when properly stored in climate controlled environments. Life spans shorten to 6 - 12 years when in constant use. Many companies that used magnetic disc for archive in the mid 90's are already having issues with retrieving this older data.
Optical media has an estimated lifespan of 100 years. So HDD is not practical for long term storage. It also is not as easy to store off site which is necessary incase of a fire, flood, earthquake or whatever destroys the primary location.
Most people only have 100 GB or so of active data on their systems. Two 50GB Blu-ray discs nicely archive this quickly for most users.
Blu-ray costs will reduce drastically over the next year. Prices were held up previously due to format wars, uncertainty in the market, and lack of HD TV sales in the US. That is changing in a big way. HD TV sales are up, Blu-ray movie titles are exponentially increasing, HD-DVD is dead, movie rental houses are now stocking Blu-ray movies. This emerging market will allow mass distribution and mass competition which will drop prices quickly.
If you have ever seen true 1080i or p on a 50" 1080p TV vs AppleTV's supposed 720p or cable and satellite's HD there is no comparison. The quality is mind blowing both in sound and visually. Apple TV is way too compressed and is similar to standard DVD but looks poor on 50" HDTV.
Cable and satellite come in second but are still poor in comparison to Blu-ray 1080i or p.
The rumors of Vista's DRM being it's death had been greatly exaggerated: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=299
I generally agree with you, but the 100 year comment is highly subjective. A lot depends on what kind of dye is used in the CD-R/DVD-R/BD-R media you use.
Stamped, aluminum discs will last that long, but the recordables are a crap-shoot.
Chances are, it will come out for desktops long before it comes out on laptops anyways... by the time bluray comes out on laptops, it will be a much wider used medium (in my opinion at least)...
1.Apple HAS to introduce BR drives, they are catering to a creative market. The demand is already there for the Mac Pro.
2.AppleTV is not a roaring success quite yet and a lot has to do with slow internet many people don't have access to online rentals.
3.Apple TV costs 300 bucks and Sony's CEO has hinted at the release of a $200 BR player this year so it will be slowly adopted like DVD. so the prices are already falling
4.AppleTV competes with VOD offered by cable providers, cable providers are changing their subscription models that will further hinder the cost effectiveness of online movie rentals
5. It can be made an optional drive just like the superdrive, I dont see while people are complaining. Just dont select it and your mac wont have it!!
6. People still like to lend movies to friends watch at their own convenience and rip them to their HD's
Physical media isn't going anywhere. Just look at the resurgence of vinyl
2.AppleTV is not a roaring success quite yet and a lot has to do with slow internet many people don't have access to online rentals.
3.Apple TV costs 300 bucks and Sony's CEO has hinted at the release of a $200 BR player this year so it will be slowly adopted like DVD. so the prices are already falling
4.AppleTV competes with VOD offered by cable providers, cable providers are changing their subscription models that will further hinder the cost effectiveness of online movie rentals
5. It can be made an optional drive just like the superdrive, I dont see while people are complaining. Just dont select it and your mac wont have it!!
6. People still like to lend movies to friends watch at their own convenience and rip them to their HD's
Physical media isn't going anywhere. Just look at the resurgence of vinyl
Instead of being a smart guy that isn't actually arguing anything because you know that you're wrong, why don't you actually go do some homework?
Oh wait.... you're an idiot
my bad. http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Increase in demand.... increase in price, tell me how the opposite can make sense?
p.s. I actually don't mind it when someone doesn't know something.... but it pisses me off when you don't know sh*t and you act like you do.
Attachments
Apple, however, has not yet shipped any high definition drives with any of their computers. They've instead focused on distributing digital content through their iTunes Store.
With the demise of the HD-DVD format, it seems only a matter of time before Apple adopts Blu-ray drives in their machines.
I think the key here is iTunes Store. Apple spent much time and effort negotiating with the major studios for the ability to rent movies via iTunes. Seems like adding a blu-ray drive, that would directly compete (from an entertainment standpoint) would undermine this work and take sales away from iTunes and Apple TV. Both of these mediums are easy money for Apple and with the current economy situation, a good source of revenue to ride out the storm.
I haven't read everything (sorry)...
Why does Apple have to "talk" to Sony anyways? Pioneer makes great drives.
Also, HP is using the LG Super-Multi drives, which do HD DVD and Blu-ray....
Why does Apple have to "talk" to Sony anyways? Pioneer makes great drives.
Also, HP is using the LG Super-Multi drives, which do HD DVD and Blu-ray....
I agree, but who wants to save a 6 year old copy of LOTR on a 6 years old 500GB drive? I am sure the user would be replacing their drives ever so often. The media may not last, but it's still more cost effective as an archive solution than BR.
Two BR discs would cost you $100, the same price for a 500GB drive now, and much more in a few years.
I have seen true HD on true HD monitors, and the only limitations so far are the bandwidth of the internet which will improve, and the viewer's TV. Both of which will improve by the time BR really comes into maturity.
p.s. by the time BR comes to maturity, I am sure SSD would mature as well, and become a more stable and viable option for backups.
I like optical media and hope that Apple adds a Blu-ray writable drive by the time I'm ready to purchase my next computer.
People are kidding themselves if they think that downloadable content will completely replace physical media anywhere in the near future. You need to think about the big picture and the mass market. Downloadable content isn't a convenient thing for most people. It's not easily portable and can be confusing to work with. It is not only very limiting in how it can be used but also requires an investment in a massive amount of storage.
Regular people don't have access to ultra high speed internet. It's great that a country like Japan has the modern infrastructure to handle it. However, in a country like the United States, most of the infrastructure is decades old. You need to remember that actual speed is not only dependant on the speed of the service provider, but also the quality of the wiring in your home, distance from the provider's local center, bandwidth usage, connection speed with the server that you are downloading from, etc.. I have 2Mbps DSL but have never had a connection speed above 230Kbps. Below 100Kbps has been the norm. And that has been with various providers.
I also recently priced out how much I would have to spend to buy hard drives for all of my music and movies (ripped in the highest quality). It would cost me almost $4,000. I have my music collection currently ripped in 256 AAC but there is no way that I'm going to spend money to try and rip all of my movies. Music is one thing but the file sizes of movies are orders of magnitude higher....especially once you start getting at higher resolutions. Also, most people don't have computers anywhere near their tv's. Can you expect every single person in the world to buy an Apple TV, Slingbox, etc. to get downloadable movies to their tv's? There will be a definite market for physical media for the foreseeable future.
Now for storage, Blu-ray will also be great. More space, less discs. Personally, I only like to keep stuff on my computer/hard drives which I will be accessing over and over again. Any file that I don't need regular access to, I like to archive on DVD (TIFF's from my photography, uncompressed movies, etc.). Hard drives are guaranteed to eventually fail...often without warning. Sure, that's why you should back up your hard drives. But is regular Joe guaranteed to do that? I currently buy DVD's, Blu-ray Discs and CD's. However, I also download the occasional music and movie. I back up those digital copies on CD or DVD. The last thing that I want is for a hard drive to fail and for me to loose my entire music and movie collection (if it was theoretically purely digital) along with all of my original photos. Physical media virtually negates that risk.
As I have said, many time before on this site, I agree that digital media will likely someday eventually completely replace physical media. However, that is a long, long way off. Bring on Blu-ray for our Macs! It's about time.
People are kidding themselves if they think that downloadable content will completely replace physical media anywhere in the near future. You need to think about the big picture and the mass market. Downloadable content isn't a convenient thing for most people. It's not easily portable and can be confusing to work with. It is not only very limiting in how it can be used but also requires an investment in a massive amount of storage.
Regular people don't have access to ultra high speed internet. It's great that a country like Japan has the modern infrastructure to handle it. However, in a country like the United States, most of the infrastructure is decades old. You need to remember that actual speed is not only dependant on the speed of the service provider, but also the quality of the wiring in your home, distance from the provider's local center, bandwidth usage, connection speed with the server that you are downloading from, etc.. I have 2Mbps DSL but have never had a connection speed above 230Kbps. Below 100Kbps has been the norm. And that has been with various providers.
I also recently priced out how much I would have to spend to buy hard drives for all of my music and movies (ripped in the highest quality). It would cost me almost $4,000. I have my music collection currently ripped in 256 AAC but there is no way that I'm going to spend money to try and rip all of my movies. Music is one thing but the file sizes of movies are orders of magnitude higher....especially once you start getting at higher resolutions. Also, most people don't have computers anywhere near their tv's. Can you expect every single person in the world to buy an Apple TV, Slingbox, etc. to get downloadable movies to their tv's? There will be a definite market for physical media for the foreseeable future.
Now for storage, Blu-ray will also be great. More space, less discs. Personally, I only like to keep stuff on my computer/hard drives which I will be accessing over and over again. Any file that I don't need regular access to, I like to archive on DVD (TIFF's from my photography, uncompressed movies, etc.). Hard drives are guaranteed to eventually fail...often without warning. Sure, that's why you should back up your hard drives. But is regular Joe guaranteed to do that? I currently buy DVD's, Blu-ray Discs and CD's. However, I also download the occasional music and movie. I back up those digital copies on CD or DVD. The last thing that I want is for a hard drive to fail and for me to loose my entire music and movie collection (if it was theoretically purely digital) along with all of my original photos. Physical media virtually negates that risk.
As I have said, many time before on this site, I agree that digital media will likely someday eventually completely replace physical media. However, that is a long, long way off. Bring on Blu-ray for our Macs! It's about time.
I agree, but who wants to save a 6 year old copy of LOTR on a 6 years old 500GB drive? I am sure the user would be replacing their drives ever so often. The media may not last, but it's still more cost effective as an archive solution than BR.
Two BR discs would cost you $100, the same price for a 500GB drive now, and much more in a few years.
I have seen true HD on true HD monitors, and the only limitations so far are the bandwidth of the internet which will improve, and the viewer's TV. Both of which will improve by the time BR really comes into maturity.
p.s. by the time BR comes to maturity, I am sure SSD would mature as well, and become a more stable and viable option for backups.
I haven't read everything (sorry)...
Why does Apple have to "talk" to Sony anyways? Pioneer makes great drives.
Also, HP is using the LG Super-Multi drives, which do HD DVD and Blu-ray....
That Pioneer drive only reads both discs, it doesn't burn either, and I recall it not being able to read or write any or a majority of DVD and CD media either.
I think I heard that same exact statement when the DVD drives were being rolled out, and also when the CD drives were being added to computers. In this case though, I do think that the BD drive will have to be an option rather than a standard since the cost is currently too high in relation to the need of the market. New software isn't going to be released on it like DVD, and as many people have pointed out hard drives and other storage mediums are more cost effective and convenient.
It is funny to see how the optical drive has gone full circle in Apple's portable line starting as an option with the combo drive, then the superdrive, and now an option again with the MacBook Air.
Instead of being a smart guy that isn't actually arguing anything because you know that you're wrong, why don't you actually go do some homework?
Oh wait.... you're an idiot
http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Increase in demand.... increase in price, tell me how the opposite can make sense?
p.s. I actually don't mind it when someone doesn't know something.... but it pisses me off when you don't know sh*t and you act like you do.
The funny thing is that you're managing to make yourself look stupid - and calling me names.
Your curves depend on a fixed production capacity. If that were true, higher demand would cause higher prices. In reality, the relevant factors in DVD and BR pricing are competition and reduced manufacturing costs through higher volumes.
Every single technology I can think of has gone down in price over time (unless there is a constrained supply). Your argument that higher popularlity will lead to higher prices is absurd - and contrary to the experience of the entire industry. As I said, DVD prices fell over time. VHS prices fell over time. RAM prices fell over time. TV prices fall over time -- in spite of vastly increased demand during the time that prices were falling. How do you explain that? And why do you think BR will be any different?
Oh, and I run a multimillion dollar company - very, very successfully. What's your business experience?
Instead of being a smart guy that isn't actually arguing anything because you know that you're wrong, why don't you actually go do some homework?
Oh wait.... you're an idiot
http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand
Increase in demand.... increase in price, tell me how the opposite can make sense?
p.s. I actually don't mind it when someone doesn't know something.... but it pisses me off when you don't know sh*t and you act like you do.
You are correct in principle, but you are neglecting a lot of important factors at play. Those principles are part of Adam Smith's invisible hand and do relate, to an extent, to your argument, but that analysis is only really good for snapshots in time (and theoretical constructions). Technology, in particular, is governed by supply and demand, as well as other aspects like: economies of scale, the fact that once capitol is purchased there is no need to purchase more, the fact that hardware consistently drops in price due to constant technological and engineering advances... all of these facts and more contribute to hardwares constant drops in price, not only do things cost less to manufacture, there is competition between manufactures (and it is lower prices that win over consumers, as well as quality/features)... think of it in these terms, the iPhone has more computing/communications power than all the computers involved in sending Apollo 11 to the Moon, yet costs a fraction of the cost, and is widely available to people throughout the world...