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That's not the point. The point is not having to buy the same movie twice. If I already own the Blu-ray disk at home, I want to play it on my laptop when I travel.

Sure I'll take a hit on displaying it externally via DVI-HDMI cable. I'd also take a hit on my laptop but last I checked, 900 lines of resolution is greater than 480 (DVD), but maybe that's just me...

Yea, but it's a bit of a mess right now.

Computers right now cannot show a Blu-ray movie in its entirety on a single battery charge.

I would imagine the computers in the Fall with the new processors, chipset, Blu-ray drive, and graphics will be available that won't eat up the battery for Blu-ray 1080 decoding.

LionsGate is going to have on its Blu discs the computer file to play on other devices... so you won't have to drag the Blu-ray disc along!
 
Everyone says that the Blu-Ray prices will come down, but there are some factors that just don't allow it. The components for a BluRay player are more expensive than a DVD player by about 3x. And that's not a factor of scale, but complexity. The replication lines are more complex and more expensive than DVD was at the beginning, so even with more of them coming online, the cost won't approach that of DVD...ever.
It currently costs four to six times as much to manufacture a BluRay disc than it does for a DVD and that is not including licensing. Even if the prices drop with an increase in volume that DVD had (ain't gonna happen) BluRay will still cost twice as much to manufacture.

Oh yeah, HD DVD costs? Just a tiny bit more than DVD since they were able to be manufactured on retrofitted DVD lines and DRM was optional so you could avoid all those fees.

You seriously think prices won't come down as a result its complexity? I'll pose a few examples that will shoot that idea to pieces (one of which i brought up a few pages ago). The computers that sent Apollo 11 to the moon was exceptionally complex and expensive (by today's standards, with inflation, billions of dollars), now the iPhone has greater computing and communications power than all the computers involved in the launch (put together). Another example, in the early '80s a brand new technology for listening to crystal clear audio came out... it was called CD's, a player cost upwards of $800 dollars (mind you lasers were a pretty new consumer technology in those days, and were very tough to manufacture cheaply), also this was just a player, that means you needed an amp and speakers as well... in the modern time you can by a CD player for $20... how could blu-ray player's never approach DVD players in cost? That just seems irrational considering that everything gets more complex, yet, every drops in prices...
 
The last line is not even funny. I hope that you aren't trying to negate over 100 years of economic research? It's a FACT man get over it.

By the way.... I bet Sony isn't lowering the price of BR because people have been flocking to the shelves to pick up that $500-$800 BR player... and like I said... if we all went to fastmac.com and bought that $1000 slot loader maybe the will lower the price next month since business is doing so well, and they don't need the profit.

By the way again.... "Why would a company with a product that everyone wants, lower it's prices when they have hundreds of people coming to pick up said product?"

Or, would they keep the prices the same, or raise them do to demand as basic economics dictates...?

Now, once demand decreases, and there is a surplus, and since it's been a while since the product was released (time for manufacturing methods to improve... spend all that money earned through demand on R&D) we can lower the price.

I think that the increase in supply is more due to the fact that there is an increasing number of entrants into the blu-ray hardware business. This not only increases the number of machines on the shelves, but also forces competition between companies to drop prices. Think in these terms, in a monopoly, the company can essentially ask as much as they want; as we move into an oligopoly, the price is forced lower as a result of the market competition, as more and more companies enter the market the price is forced to a point when no profit can be earned... do you want me to find the graphs that prove this point?
 
The longer Apple waits on Bluray the better as far as I'm concerned. So far, the abandonment of HD-DVD has only caused Bluray hardware prices to go up. It was a misdesigned format that came out costing way more than intended in the first place. Both the hardware and the media.
 
...

Amen, but the day I brought it home I had to carry it around the mall with the Significant Other, and for some reason it didn't dawn on me to drop it off at the car... :eek:


Well, I am sure that you made a ton of people jealous by walking around with it in the mall!! ;)
 
I think that the increase in supply is more due to the fact that there is an increasing number of entrants into the blu-ray hardware business. This not only increases the number of machines on the shelves, but also forces competition between companies to drop prices. Think in these terms, in a monopoly, the company can essentially ask as much as they want; as we move into an oligopoly, the price is forced lower as a result of the market competition, as more and more companies enter the market the price is forced to a point when no profit can be earned... do you want me to find the graphs that prove this point?

No, that's okay because that is a well known point that I won't debate because it's true. Like you said, in a monopoly it's cut and dry since it's just a dual market (consumer/company or demand/supply). It's easier to understand that as demand increases supply increases and price increases.

Now once a second supplier enters the game things change a bit. The second supplier can undercut the bigger company by shaving off some profit on their end, but they still need to make a profit.

Let's say Apple sells computers for $500, and people by them by the droves, and it costs Apple $200 to make each one, $300 profit. If no one enters the market they can raise prices, and people will still buy them. Dell comes along and notes that, while Apple sells their machines for $500 they can sell them for a little less, like $450. They could go down to $250 but why would they? HP comes along and undercuts Dell to $400, same thing, they could go to $250 or even $205 but why? Now, by this time demand has come down because there are other vendors supplying the machines, not just Apple with their limited supply.

Now the part that some are missing.... Apple selling their at $500 has much more profit than Dell and HP for R&D. They can learn how to make their machines cheaper, and now that demand is down and no one is buying a computer at $500 they can lower prices. Now it costs Apple $100 to make a machine, so they sell them for $300. Tech moves forward and prices come down.

But once a new product comes to market (a faster computer) prices shoot back up because people are demanding faster machines. The Mac II (just for names sake) costs $700, since Apple is using a new way to make the machine with newer parts. It costs them $500 to make it. If more people demand it and Apple runs out of supply, people will be willing to pay more for it (check ebay for the iSight or when the iPhone was backordered... D300 and D3 are more examples)

Once equilibrium is hit price stays the same as does supply and demand.... the cycle goes on.

When you say, the demand for computers has gone up, so should the price, you're (not you MarsUltor anyone) missing the point. It's the demand for new tech, not just the computer and especially not the old stuff. If I went into the future and grabbed a 15" MBP with dual 3.0GHz processors and 8x BR burner I could sell it for $5000 since it's new and people want it. When supplies run out I can jack the price up to $7000 and someone would still buy it. As soon as the market doesn't demand it anymore, or when other vendors make their versions and we can't sell anymore price goes down.

Lastly let's look at milk. Farmers are taking their corn and turning it into bio fuel instead of feeding their cows because they can make more money. People need milk, but the supply is shrinking as more farms make bio fuel. Demand goes up... so does the price. On the other side, as bio fuels become more available and people demand more of it the price goes up until equilibrium. Once farmers make bio fuel easier and cheaper they can lower prices.

Sorry for the long post. It was hard for me to learn at first too, you know us Amurican be stuppid. :D

p.s. thanks admins...
 
I for one am really looking forward to BD in future Macs. Apple have no choice, they can't phase out optical drives for a good few years, and all the other manufacturers will have them. I hope they pretty much put them in across the line, possibly cutting into their profits (as Sony did to begin with on the PS3) to give them a price edge. Nobody wants to pay $1000 for a BD-writer. XD

The nay-sayers are being a bit daft, methinks. All of the things which made DVD good, BD does them better. I'd take a DVD with art and extras over an inferior quality, bare-bones, using-up-disk-space-needlessly version.. Until *that* becomes the standard and they start treating it as a lead distribution channel, offering the same quality/material.. Which isn't going to happen in the nex 5 years... I'd move over to digital if it competed. Right now it doesn't.
 
I'd love to see Blu-Ray in the Mini upgrade. This would be a television's best friend.

what about in the apple tv?? just a reader?

that could be the ultimate home entertainment solution. sure you can buy and rent movies through teh iTunes store, but you can also pick up and play hard copies of your favorite DVD's and Bluray movies. the only downside to that is the fact that it would take away potential sales, and we all know how :apple: feels about that
 
To be honest, who doesn't replace his hard drives every 4 to 5 years? Would you still be able to store all your data on the hard drive you had 5 years ago?

We all buy new, bigger drives at some point, fill it up with the data from the previous drive, and donate/sell the old, smaller drive. I, for one, wouldn't want to waste space on my desk for a 40 or 80GB drive. I currently have a 1TB external drive for my CDs and DVDs, a 500GB Time Capsule for my system backups and yet another 250GB drive for company files.

As for Blu-Ray, it has already begun to suffer the same fate as CD's for backups: you already need at least a couple of discs for a complete backup, which is a non-starter. It doesn't matter if a rewritable Blu-Ray disc only costs 5$ if I need a dozen or so for a complete system/data backup.

I agree that Networked storage disks are the best methods for daily backup. I was arguing for permanent storage long term at an alternate site. Proper data back up procedures requires both. Blu-ray discs will work much better than magnetic hdd for permanent off site storage.

Blu-ray discs will also work better for mailers to clients if a person has a large HD presentation to send. It would be much better to mail out a disk or two rather than mail out a 100 GB HDD.

I don't see why everyone attacks Blu-ray as a short lived format that Apple shouldn't offer for their users. Why not? I for one would love for OS X to support Blu-ray so I could use final cut pro to author my own high def movies.

Why Couldn't Apple integrate a blu-ray player into the AppleTV, then a user could buy one device that both downloads movie rentals and supports playing back store rentals or disks from a personal movie collection?

If a pro user wants a blu-ray burner in their MBP to edit an HD movie shot on location with a portable HD camera, why shouldn't Apple offer the option. Most PC's will have this bto option before too long.
 
Regardless of whether the internet is going to replace the local video store with HD-DVD being no more the higher end machines will carry BR drives at some point. Not everyone is going to send everything via an internet connection, likewise pulling dvd discs and going online only will be a stupid move as alot of people won't buy the content.

Also, BR will provide a new alternate for backing up systems for at least data. Having an iTunes library backed up on a BR disc is a good example.
 
what about in the apple tv?? just a reader?

that could be the ultimate home entertainment solution. sure you can buy and rent movies through teh iTunes store, but you can also pick up and play hard copies of your favorite DVD's and Bluray movies. the only downside to that is the fact that it would take away potential sales, and we all know how :apple: feels about that

It might drop rental sales but it also might increase AppleTV sales. Apple makes more money on the hardware sale than the download sale.

Also movie studios are leery of Apple getting too much control of digital media, as a result most of the studios are limiting the titles available for movie rental. So if Apple doesn't provide support for hard media then it is not as attractive due to the poor movie download catalog.

Why not have one device that does both?
 
Dell XPS M1530 with slot load blu-ray burner

Just for the record.... there are slot loading BR disc drives.....

http://store.fastmac.com/product_info.php?products_id=338

But look at that PRICE!

$1000

You can order a Dell XPS M1530 today with a slot loading blu-ray burner as an option for an extra $500. This is a more elegant solution than having an external burner, for those like me that look forward to edit and distribute oringinal HD content, and want the portability of a laptop.
 
Now that my supply of Netflix HD-DVDs is drying up, I have been forced to use my Bluray player. I have experienced 2 disc failures on new releases (something I never have had yet with HD-DVD)
And the menu/time line sucks!
And Trailers up the wazoo.
I see prices are now looking like there is no competition.
I think the wrong format won....even thought they are both doomed.
 
Why not have one device that does both?

My thoughts exactly. I would buy an Apple TV w/ Blue-Ray in a heartbeat. I know a number of people whom feel the same way.

Plus, I don't see how a BR player would eat too much into the iTunes rental store model. I would use the BR player to play pre-existing media, and iTunes to watch new flicks on the fly.

Then again, maybe 802.11n makes this all moot?
 
It seems bad for the industry, and the users, if everyone has to pay homage to Sony and only Sony.

sony = the prescription drug "big pharma" equivalent in the optical-media space.

if they develop it on their dime and they win teh format war, they've earned their licensing monopoly. that's generally how things work around here.
 
I think it's a safe bet that blu-ray will be the last major pre-recorded format as such. I think everything will simply be easy storage methods in the future. You may eventually see download stations in stores for something like a credit card sized storage device (heck this 4GB sony micro USB drive I have in front of me is small enough to fit about 4 in one credit card sleeve in my wallet) that will hold the movie until you transfer it to your computer at which point you could clear it for more shopping (reusable so no waste). Or you could download off the net if you have a good connection and/or maybe even store ALL you movies on one small card/device some day (capacity will only get larger, maybe even holographic storage methods to store in 3-dimensions). The only real issue will be this DRM business. It makes life difficult for legitimate customers while true pirates get around it every time. Hopefully, the industry will wise up and get rid of it.

lots of new car models debuting this year with usb jacks in addition to aux in 1/8" jacks and ipod adaptors, so your dream of plugging in a remote drive or memory card reader into the car stereo is already fast becoming real.

i've had enough problems with the p.o.s. magnetic stripes on my credit and ATM cards to trust the likes of starbucks cards, memory cards holding data that i've paid for, or anything else in that form-factor that would be carried around in a wallet cardslot where a$$-sweat and other environmental effects would raise the likelihood of failure. when i buy a CD, it works. if it doesn't, i can send it back to the manufacturer and they replace it (i did this with a bum Mahavishnu Orchestra CD back in the mid-90's once). where do you go when, between loading up your card at the store and getting it plugged into your computer at home, there's a fault and the card is no longer functioning? when the stores actually have this stuff set up and it's all working splendidly, then they can begin phasing out optical disc drives. until then, far as most consumers (including me) are concerned, most of this "over the air" stuff is with the 50's rocket-boy sci-fi novels. i downloaded a 43 minute tv show episode once from itunes. took over an hour. they've got some miles to travel before they sleep soundly with the knowledge that the whole "air" idea is a proven winner. give 'em a few years; meanwhile, i'll take the physical disc, thanks.

anyhow, if as you say the blu-ray is the last-for-all-time pre-recorded media format, that's all the more reason to make it available in a line of computers before doing away with pre-recorded media readers, don't you think? seems dumb that there'll be blu-ray discs out there, but no apple computer that'll ship with the drive.
 
You can order a Dell XPS M1530 today with a slot loading blu-ray burner as an option for an extra $500. This is a more elegant solution than having an external burner, for those like me that look forward to edit and distribute oringinal HD content, and want the portability of a laptop.

I agree, and wouldn't mind that kind of functionality either. The Dell doesn't have a slot loader though, it's a tray loader. Not as big as the ones in desktops though.

I am more in it for the future of media. I do wish to burn some HD content in the future, so I do wish to get a BR option in the MBP by next year.
 
So far the discussion often revolves around BD (presumably a BR-recordable) soon becoming obsolete because of the fast-dropping prices of hard drives. However, there are a few niche markets that I can think of where a BD-R drive with good interactive software (DVDSP5?) would come into its own---wedding/event video producers, indie film producers, and interactive training apps. Just my $.02 USD.
 
When will BR hit the PB?

Anyone have any guesses as to when Apple will ship PowerBooks with a BlueRay drive? I'm waiting to upgrade to a new laptop for that feature, assuming it is going to happen soon...say June?
 
Anyone have any guesses as to when Apple will ship PowerBooks with a BlueRay drive? I'm waiting to upgrade to a new laptop for that feature, assuming it is going to happen soon...say June?
As long as there is a slim enough drive, slot loading for the portables, all Apple needs are the drivers:rolleyes:
 
Anyone have any guesses as to when Apple will ship PowerBooks with a BlueRay drive? I'm waiting to upgrade to a new laptop for that feature, assuming it is going to happen soon...say June?

The Apple portables have been rebranded MacBook Pro. I know it's hard to say and it's a mouth full, but we gotta live with it.
 
Dell XPS M1530 with slot load blu-ray burner

I agree, and wouldn't mind that kind of functionality either. The Dell doesn't have a slot loader though, it's a tray loader. Not as big as the ones in desktops though.

I am more in it for the future of media. I do wish to burn some HD content in the future, so I do wish to get a BR option in the MBP by next year.

This is a first for Dell. Click on this link http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsnb_m1530?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~tab=bundlestab and then click on Tech Specs and go down to Optical Drives. Both, the DVD and the Blu-Ray burners are slot loaders.
 
Microsoft had previously been shipping an HD-DVD accessory for their Xbox 360, so their adoption of Blu-ray would represent a significant turnaround.

Simply untrue, MacRumors. They originally stated they would support HD-DVD and Blu-ray if the demand or otherwise enticed them to do so. They are not and were not dedicated to one HD format above their own (digital downloads via Xbox Live), HD-DVD was giving people the choice to buy the drive if they wanted it, Blu-ray was passed upon originally due to costs and a contract with Toshiba, as far as I'm aware, but they never said they'd not support Blu-ray in the form of an external drive.
 
As long as there is a slim enough drive, slot loading for the portables, all Apple needs are the drivers:rolleyes:

Well, there's nothing stopping them from putting BR into the Mac Pro other than drivers - and having the will to do it. I assume that the drivers could have been done by now, so what's stopping them?
 
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