Apple Introduces Updated Apple TV with Netflix Integration, TV Show Rentals

[KnightWRX]

Oh wow, obscure geek-only device made by a company that just happens to also be a movie company supports MKV. Yeah, that's totally the same thing. Sony doesn't have to negotiate with the MPAA; Sony IS the MPAA. Sony selling a device that supports MKV doesn't threaten the whole movie industry.

Strawman. And how is the BDP-S370 a geek only device ? It's a mainstream blu-ray player.

And exactly how you say it, Sony is the MPAA, yet Sony supports MKV. If that doesn't threaten the whole movie industry, Apple support for the format (remember kids, a format does not piracy make) doesn't either.

Face it, you made an argument and it came up short. Admitting defeat shows grace in these times. But keep on spinning it...

 

[reactions]

another 'hobby' product!

what a copout - if it was a hit - they'd never call it a hobby.

apple loves playing with words.

i suppose the ipod classic is now a hobby product due to it's declining sales.

 

[Defthand]

You're wrong in assuming that viewing distance is only related to the screen's size. You're wrong in stating that a 1280x720 image is 'fundamentally' the same as a 1920x1080 image delivered using two interlaced fields. Educate yourself.

You're misquoting. It's true that screen size alone does not determine what distance the screen's image will look sharpest --a combination of screen resolution and screen size does. A small screen with 1280 x 720 resolution will look sharp up close while a big screen with the same resolution will look pixelated at the same viewing distance since the pixels themselves are larger. Therefore, if your eyesight is satisfactory, there are recommended distances to view tv's depending on their resolution AND screen size. My point was that most people can't discern between 720 or 1080 resolution at optimal viewing distances.

As for my second point, I'm describing optics --nothing more. A 720p image creates the same illusion as a 1080i image but using a different method.

 

[petitpiton]

What computer are you using and what is Firefly? Thanks.

Firefly is media server software commonly ported to run on various NAS devices. It runs as a service advertising and serving content using the digital audio access protocol (DAAP) which is the protocol used by iTunes.
Firefly homepage

Unfortunately 1st gen AppleTV can't access content provided by Firefly because of the requirement to enter a passcode in iTunes to share the library content.

I'm just wondering whether the passcode system has been dropped for 2nd Gen AppleTV thereby allowing streaming from a home media server / NAS.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

On the whole 1080p vs 720p thing, you can definatly scale down without noticing a different.

It doesn't matter at this point. It's just as much marketing as anything else, but the point is that the public EATS IT UP. Apple should at the very least be promoting the idea that the hardware itself can handle 1080p for when the time comes (and if it literally "cannot" then Apple truly is run by IDIOTS in 2010 because even dirt cheap camcorders are capable of 1080p these days and any two-bit graphics chip can handle it as well in hardware). That would also mean something to hackers who want to put XBMC or Boxee (maybe Plex in the future?) on it, assuming that there's even enough room to do so.

At the VERY least, Apple should recognize that people can and DO make home videos, many of which are now available in 1080p (even Apple hardware won't do it) and that people MIGHT just like to view those movies without having to convert them to a lesser format first. I mean really, who wants to maintain two sets of movies on their hard drives just because Apple decided you don't NEED more than 720p in 2010?

The problem is that Apple doesn't want to admit that anyone else even exists in this world but Apple and so if Apple doesn't do 1080p, then NO ONE does. Steve Jobs needs to get his head out of his proverbial back-side and start making Apple about cutting-edge again, not the 10-year behind tech company because they don't happen to like the fact they didn't invent Blu-Ray and want you to use their iTunes store, which just flat out isn't going to be ready to handle 1080p in real-time bandwidth for another 5-10 years. WTF should Apple customers have to put up with crap from Jobs? Let the darn customer decide whether they want Blu-Ray or not and let them import their own home movies into iTunes at 1080p for goodness sake. And stop pretending nothing but M4V exists in the world. No one else uses it and you cannot even get the XBMC guys to add chapter support for it in their player, which makes some of us have to choose between MKV (which does have chapter support in XBMC) and the Apple TV interface. That's really more XBMC's problem/fault, but just the fact that M4V doesn't even officially support DTS is ridiculous. But it's all because Apple doesn't want you making your own M4V files from other sources. They don't even want you to make home movies using something high-quality because they figure you could have put that money for that nice Sony 1080p camcorder towards buying the new iPod Touch with its oh-so-not-amazing 720p camera instead.

GREED is Jobs' middle name and it's really starting to affect Apple's entire product lines. Instead of cutting edge, they're falling behind in everything that is not a phone lately.

 

[toolhouse]

January

In January: Apps for Apple TV and Facetime/Camera for iPad

Never all at once

 

[totoum]

Sony doesn't have to negotiate with the MPAA; Sony IS the MPAA.

Well isn't that the point?If sony doesn't mind selling a product that plays MKVs,it'd be pretty hypocrite of them to tell apple they shouldn't.

 

[HiRez]

Will Netflix have a subtitles option on Apple TV?

Supposedly, they are working on that for sometime this year, along with 5.1 surround audio.

And for all of you talking about Netflix 1080p, you do realize that Netflix doesn't even encode anything in 1080p, right? And has no plans to anytime soon. It requires an insane amount of bandwidth to stream. Think of it this way, you can have 720 with great (high bitrate) encoding, or you can have 1080p with crappy (low bitrate, lots of artifacts) encoding. But you can't have both. I know which one I want. 720p requires a minimum 5 Mbps, 1080p requires double that at minimum, 10 Mbps. Most people still don't have a connection that gives them a constant, reliable 10 Mbps, even people who are supposedly on a 10 Mbps plan are getting much less except for peak burst which may approach that number.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Apple TV
Price: $99
Resolution: 720P
Includes: Netflix, YouTube

Support Video Formats: M4V, MP4, MOV

Supported Audio Codecs: HE-AAC (V1), AAC (16 to 320 Kbps), protected AAC (from iTunes Store), MP3 (16 to 320 Kbps), MP3 VBR, Audible (formats 2, 3, and 4), Apple Lossless, AIFF, and WAV; Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound pass-through

Built in Wi-Fi N


WD TV HD Live Plus
Price: $109
Resolution 1080P
Includes: Netflix, YouTube, Flickr, Pandora

Supported Video Formats: AVI (Xvid, AVC, MPEG1/2/4), MPG/MPEG, VOB, MKV (h.264, x.264, AVC, MPEG1/2/4, VC-1), TS/TP/M2T (MPEG1/2/4, AVC, VC-1), MP4/MOV (MPEG4, h.264), M2TS, WMV9

Supported Audio Codecs: MP3, WAV/PCM/LPCM, WMA, AAC, FLAC, MKA, AIF/AIFF, OGG, Dolby Digital, DTS

Wi-Fi only available through extra purchase.



So tell me again, how the Apple TV can compete with the WD TV HD Live Plus and other devices?

Why does Apple come out with a great design, superb UI, but ruin the functionality?

UMMM... because nobody knows what the hell a "WD TV HD Live Plus" is, nobody has ever heard of it, and everyone will know about Apple TV. Simple as that.

 

[MacManifest]

USB Port on Back

Did you notice that the Apple TV has a Micro USB port on the back of the device. Is anyone thinking what I'm thinking. Grab a USB Flash drive and hook it up to the Micro USB port and use the Apple TV as a storage device or something else to that effect.

 

[KnightWRX]

UMMM... because nobody knows what the hell a "WD TV HD Live Plus" is, nobody has ever heard of it, and everyone will know about Apple TV. Simple as that.

Too bad that hasn't helped Apple TV move more units.

 

[pc-proud]

Component to HDMI converter. Problem solved.

I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that HDMI to Component is not possible due to the the HDCP of HDMI connections. I tried that with my xbox 360 to go hdmi to a receiver and then component to (a then non-hd) tv, it didn't work unless it was component to component or component to hdmi. If you do have it working, let me know what you did differently?

 

[Revelation78]

Did you notice that the Apple TV has a Micro USB port on the back of the device. Is anyone thinking what I'm thinking. Grab a USB Flash drive and hook it up to the Micro USB port and use the Apple TV as a storage device or something else to that effect.

If it's like the current TV, the USB is locked out from user access...

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

GREED is Jobs' middle name and it's really starting to affect Apple's entire product lines. Instead of cutting edge, they're falling behind in everything that is not a phone lately.

Really? How are they falling behind? They can't make enough of the iPhone 4, the new iPods are fantastic and will fly off the shelves, Mac sales are through the roof... your argument does not hold any water. If anything, it sounds like you are taking all of this a bit too personally. How is Jobs greedy? He is on a $1 salary at Apple and is solely compensated with stock options. That gives Jobs incentive to do what makes money for Apple and increases its stock value. That doesn't make Jobs "greedy" as you say, it makes him a highly competent CEO who understands the market to which he sells.

Take off the blinders and take a chill pill. Apple creates products people love. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean 100 million other people wouldn't.

 

[HiRez]

Still no 1080i or p. Crud!!! Come on Steve J, the HD standard is 1080i60, p24, or p30 (with some new cams doing 1080p60, but no other support for it yet). Most new HD sets are now 1080p60 at least, and most now oversample to 120 or even 240 (actually kind of useless, but can make 1080p24 an even multiple of the HD TV's refresh rate - but most TVs persistence is less than 120Hz, so who cares).

1080i sucks butt, I would much rather have 720p than 1080i any day. And 720p is absolutely in the HD standard. 1080p60 is not a format anyone is using, do you have any idea what kind of bandwidth you'd need to stream that? Now 1080p30, sure that is nice, but most people aren't encoding or streaming that yet, plus let's be real, 99% of consumers don't care and won't notice the difference between that an 720p anyway. Most consumers won't even have a tv that's calibrated.

 

[ctakim]

.... WTF should Apple customers have to put up with crap from Jobs?...


GREED is Jobs' middle name and it's really starting to affect Apple's entire product lines. Instead of cutting edge, they're falling behind in everything that is not a phone lately.

Sigh! This geek anger is as tiresome as it is predictable. Sorry to say but Steve has been making the things he thinks are cool and not the things the public thinks they want since 1984. Sometimes (most times) he is right, occasionally he is wrong.

Oh and that Apple tablet thingy is really causing them to fall behind! LOL!

 

[aegisdesign]

The problems is that in 2010, the vast majority of internet service in the USA (where Apple hosts there servers) are too slow to provide 1080p content real time w/o severe macroblocking. For the bandwidth available in 2010, 720p provides the best quality. Increasing the limit to 1080p would only serve to REDUCE video quality for the sake of a marketing bullet point.
It's like having a 20MP camera with a cheap lens and poor low light performance.

That's all fine and dandy but the AppleTV will also stream from your Mac and 1080p over a local network should be fine.

 

[NT1440]

Too bad that hasn't helped Apple TV move more units.

Last I heard they've moved over 3 million of what they still regard as a hobby. I'd say thats respectable.

 

[Vercingetorix]

It doesn't matter at this point. It's just as much marketing as anything else, but the point is that the public EATS IT UP. Apple should at the very least be promoting the idea that the hardware itself can handle 1080p for when the time comes (and if it literally "cannot" then Apple truly is run by IDIOTS in 2010 because even dirt cheap camcorders are capable of 1080p these days and any two-bit graphics chip can handle it as well in hardware). That would also mean something to hackers who want to put XBMC or Boxee (maybe Plex in the future?) on it, assuming that there's even enough room to do so.

At the VERY least, Apple should recognize that people can and DO make home videos, many of which are now available in 1080p (even Apple hardware won't do it) and that people MIGHT just like to view those movies without having to convert them to a lesser format first. I mean really, who wants to maintain two sets of movies on their hard drives just because Apple decided you don't NEED more than 720p in 2010?

The problem is that Apple doesn't want to admit that anyone else even exists in this world but Apple and so if Apple doesn't do 1080p, then NO ONE does. Steve Jobs needs to get his head out of his proverbial back-side and start making Apple about cutting-edge again, not the 10-year behind tech company because they don't happen to like the fact they didn't invent Blu-Ray and want you to use their iTunes store, which just flat out isn't going to be ready to handle 1080p in real-time bandwidth for another 5-10 years. WTF should Apple customers have to put up with crap from Jobs? Let the darn customer decide whether they want Blu-Ray or not and let them import their own home movies into iTunes at 1080p for goodness sake. And stop pretending nothing but M4V exists in the world. No one else uses it and you cannot even get the XBMC guys to add chapter support for it in their player, which makes some of us have to choose between MKV (which does have chapter support in XBMC) and the Apple TV interface. That's really more XBMC's problem/fault, but just the fact that M4V doesn't even officially support DTS is ridiculous. But it's all because Apple doesn't want you making your own M4V files from other sources. They don't even want you to make home movies using something high-quality because they figure you could have put that money for that nice Sony 1080p camcorder towards buying the new iPod Touch with its oh-so-not-amazing 720p camera instead.

GREED is Jobs' middle name and it's really starting to affect Apple's entire product lines. Instead of cutting edge, they're falling behind in everything that is not a phone lately.

You sound exactly like people (including me) who've spent the last decade complaining about all the simple things that the iPod/iTunes ecosystem won't let you do. Yet Apple turned the company around by selling 275 million of them to consumers who didn't care at all. Apple doesn't make consumer products aimed at people who care about even semi-advanced features. They make products aimed at people who don't care about technology.

There's no question that this is a disappointing product, but mostly just because they didn't announce any kind of SDK or plans to turn it into a platform. As a media-streaming device out of the box, it's pretty much exactly what anybody who has followed Apple in recent years should have expected: a frustratingly limited device that does about half of what you'd want in an elegant, intuitive interface. That values ease of use over features. Anyone expecting anything else hasn't been paying attention.

 

[NT1440]

Sigh! This geek anger is as tiresome as it is predictable. Sorry to say but Steve has been making the things he thinks are cool and not the things the public thinks they want since 1984. Sometimes (most times) he is right, occasionally he is wrong.

Oh and that Apple tablet thingy is really causing them to fall behind! LOL!

Try since 1977, apple II.

 

[KnightWRX]

Last I heard they've moved over 3 million of what they still regard as a hobby. I'd say thats respectable.

Wow, 3 million in 4 years uh ? In a market as big as Television, which is bigger than PMPs and Cellphones...

Successful. Not.

 

[AZREOSpecialist]

Too bad that hasn't helped Apple TV move more units.

Because until this point Apple TV was a fringe product. But at $99 Apple will move a lot more units. Apple is using Apple TV to prove to studios that this is a viable business model. When more studios come online, Apple TV will explode. Jobs is right. Consumers want to watch TV and movies - they don't care where they are stored. Why bother with hard drive storage of video content when you can have it in the cloud? Why pay $20-$30 to own a movie if you're only going to watch it a handful of times?

The Apple TV rental model makes sense. Why do you think Apple made the case black? It's symbolic. The Apple TV is Apple's covert operation to gain control of the family room. Black ops. Just wait and see!

 

[ctakim]

Now while my 2010 mac Mini did cost about 7x as much...id still MUCH rather continue using Plex with it.

Better interface. Better content...apps.

Dude you can't really be comparing a full home theater PC with an ATV? Those are two totally different things. If you've got Plex (nine?) running on your MacMini this ATV is not for you!

 

[lilo777]

Why Apple can not do what Amazon does?

As you have probably read already (on Engadget and elsewhere) Amazon is already offering the same TV shows as ATV (i.e. Fox, ABC) for the same $0.99. Butt the price is to buy the show (as opposed to renting for ATV). As I understand, once you purchased the show, you can stream it unlimited number of times (you own it). Why can't Apple do the same? ABC probably would not offer a better deal to Amazon. Is Apple just being greedy? Do they want to save on not having to provides unlimited streaming?

All of a sudden Roku and Google TV look even more attractive.

 

[pc-proud]

Don't talk down to people. Makes you sound like an ass.

Umm, have you ever heard a mac person talk to a PC person before about their Macs? If talking down to people makes someone sound like an ass, then every mac person I've ever talked to, is one.