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You sound exactly like people (including me) who've spent the last decade complaining about all the simple things that the iPod/iTunes ecosystem won't let you do. Yet Apple turned the company around by selling 275 million of them to consumers who didn't care at all. Apple doesn't make consumer products aimed at people who care about even semi-advanced features. They make products aimed at people who don't care about technology.

I might buy the Apple flavored kool-aid you're trying to sell me with that statement except for one major flaw in the argument. Apple was once also a HUGE supporter of PROFESSIONAL software and hardware as well. I've got Logic 9.1 (Mac only product as well) here for a reason and it's not because I wanted to make home recordings of me playing the harmonica! I'm halfway through writing, recording and editing my new album already and it's because it's professional software that I can quickly and easily jump into it and get it to do what *I* want it to do, not the other way around. And it is that professional sector along with high-end amateurs that Apple seems to have been slowly losing the past few years. I'd say it started about the time the iPhone came out (or within the year before it that they turned all their attention to it).

The problem is not that Apple CANNOT do more and yet keep it just as elegant and easy to use, but rather somewhere along the way Jobs got this idea that he doesn't car about the professional stuff anymore (odd to me given his history withe Pixar) and instead wants an iPhone in every household. Hey, that's great. How about handing the Mac and related products over to someone that actually CARES about them? How about an Apple TV product that is not just his "hobby" ? How about having a kiddy option and an advanced option to the software? A lot of products have basic interfaces with advanced features you have to turn on. That is exactly where Apple TV keeps going wrong. It wants to be simple. It wants to be easy to use. But THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT BUYING IT! NO ONE I know has ever even HEARD of Apple TV. They don't push it; they don't advertise it and they treat it like some niche geek product. But then they don't offer geek features! And that is the problem.

To the hardware's credit, I have made my existing Apple TV units do EVERYTHING I could want them to do (either by hacking or converting video formats to work and tagging, etc. to make them look great in the interface). The ONLY problem is that I'm doing a lot of work I'll have to some day do all over again when I get a 1080p projector to replace the 720p one I have now. And I had to re-do a lot of encodes to make sure they play smoothly since it can't handle too many bits in a 720p file either. Other than that, hey it's working great. I might buy a couple of these new ones just to add movie playback to every guest bedroom in the house since they're so cheap (i.e. they cost $10 less than an Airport Express that only does audio!!!)

But that still doesn't mean I'm not cheesed about the 1080p limitation since I'd rather start making 1080p encodes that I'll never have to touch again probably in my entire lifetime (doubt I'll be going drive-in sized screens at short distances any time soon to see 4080p or something, most of which film sources couldn't get that much usable resolution from anyway and most newer films quite frankly seem to suck these days; I've been renting Bogart movies in B&W HD lately for goodness sake).

Still, I haven't seen a full rundown on the hardware specs of the new box. I'll be surprised if it really is limited internally to 720p. They'd almost have to work hard to limit playback in 2010 to 720p and it'd be just SAD if they did. Otherwise, the only "improvement" I see in the new model is the price. I'm sure the 99 cent rentals will be available on older Apple TV models so there's nothing new there. I think Netflix SD rentals will run just fine on the older models as well if they bother to add support in the software for them.

There's no question that this is a disappointing product, but mostly just because they didn't announce any kind of SDK or plans to turn it into a platform.

I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by not making it a full blown iOS device that can play iOS games from iTunes (the same ones that run on iPhones and iPod Touches). Throw in a little gyroscopic Magic Mouse Pad like thingy (or allow a real iOS device as a gamepad) and you'd have instant gaming platform as well at no cost since it runs iOS games. Frankly, I think they should let iOS games run in iTunes on the Mac as well as a front-end. Some of those games are just as fun to play on a 24" monitor as a little iPod Touch Screen, especially with the newer iPad games being higher resolution.

What I'm saying is my disappointment is from Apple being totally near-sighted lately. They come out with some whiz-bang cool gadget, but then they don't use it to its greatest potential or the related hardware around it (i.e. the whole iOS apps on Macs and AppleTV thing). Why LIMIT something that would clearly be better for the whole market with just a few changes? It's irritating. Just because Jobs doesn't want to sell 1080p videos just yet on the iTunes store that doesn't mean he should ignore the fact that LOTS of people are making their own 1080p home movies and MIGHT just like to view them on their home theater using Apple TV instead of a BD player, but he actually FORCES them to buy the BD player instead to play back those home movies in full 1080p because he cannot be bothered to add 1080p support to iTunes and Apple TV when he had the chance.
 
Can no longer buy media?

How is it a good thing that you can no longer buy media? If you've got kids then you know that they watch the same movies over and over and over and over again. Not to mention that adults actually enjoy watching GOOD shows again. Sure we might go for a year or two between viewings, but if it is a good story it's worth another view. Why would I want to pay for it again and again. This is why we BUY box sets. The reason why we buy from iTunes is because of the convenience. 1) We don't have to go to Walmart or some other stinky retailer. 2) We don't even have to get off the couch. Push button and you're watching the show. 3) And this is the biggee, you know it well if you got kids, NO BROKEN DVDs!!! So, is Apple going to stop selling shows and movies via iTunes? That is stupid.
 
Tell me where to get this mythical Netflix device that come close to 1080p.

Look no further than about any network enabled Blu-ray players.

How is it a good thing that you can no longer buy media? If you've got kids then you know that they watch the same movies over and over and over and over again. Not to mention that adults actually enjoy watching GOOD shows again.

You can still buy media, you just have to buy it on your Mac and then stream it from iTunes. No more storing it on the AppleTV.
 
It would have been great if the 2010 edition could have covered this base. "720p is good enough" crowd would have got their 720p to the max. "1080p or bust" would have got what they wanted. Apple would have got what they wanted (more buyers). Nobody had to lose.

But, that couldn't happen.

You can't let the $99 Apple "hobby" accessory do things that the $2500 "Apple Pro" workstation can't do.

The unfortunately misnamed "Pro" systems will have to have support for the common ("common" for most every company but Apple) 1080p standard before the consumer toys.
 
No upgrades for existing AppleTV owners.

Does anyone know if the software of existing AppleTVs will be updated to reflect today's announced changes to the product?

It will not.

Here are two conversations with Apple Experts this evening:


You are chatting with Rick R, an Apple Expert
Hi, my name is Rick R. Welcome to Apple!
Hello! How may I assist you?
I have an AppleTV right now. Will I be able to update the software and have any of the features of the new AppleTV?
I'm happy to assist with that.
A lot of info is still forthcoming as far as compatibility between the two models.
Suggest you check back with us after this new model is fully released and perhaps we will know more then.
But in the meantime, you're happy to accept my order for the new model?
Yes as a pre-order.
That's quite disappointing.
Sorry you feel that way. What you are asking me to do is speculate on how an older model will work in terms of compatibility with the new model. At this time we do not have all the answers like this but hope to soon.
The new Apple TV was just announced late this morning and info is still forthcoming in terms of tech support etc.
I understand your dilemma. But I'm getting two completely different answers from sales... I'd like to be able to make an informed decision. Trust me - I'm an Apple fan. There are more Apple products in my house than I can count. :) No offense. Just trying to get a definitive answer.
I fully understand.
Ok - thanks for your help.
Give me a moment and let me see if I can gather more info for you.
No problem.
Okay I'm being told that the older models will not be upgraded with any new features as the two generations are very different in terms of features.
:( Ugh. I just bought a new one about 2 months ago. Oh well... Do you know if I'll still be able to even use the existing AppleTVs to rent/buy content?
Sure the current features will not change for existing customers.
Thanks for the info.




You are chatting with Randal D, an Apple Expert
Hi, my name is Randal D. Welcome to Apple!
I have an AppleTV. Will I be able to update the software and have Netflix (and/or other features)?
Hello!
That is just on the new model.
So none of the new features announced today will be available to me as an existing AppleTV owner?
Correct.
Were you shopping for your new AppleTV here today?
Yes. But I already own two. Was trying to find out what the future of the existing product would be.
Thanks for waiting. I'll be right with you.
Right I understand.
So, as I understand it, there will be no update for my existing AppleTV to provide support for any of the new features announced today and I should buy the new model?
If you are interested in the great new features I would suggest purchasing the new AppleTV model.
That isn't what I asked. I'm trying to get a definitive answer on whether or not I should invest in the new model or if I can just wait for a software update to use on the $299 product I just purchased.
Apple does not comment or speculate on rumors about decisions, products, programs, or promotions that are not officially announced.
I'm not asking you to speculate on something that isn't announced. I'm asking you to tell me about the product that was announced today.
The AppleTV that was announced today.
The new one.
If you are interested in the great new features I would suggest purchasing the new AppleTV model.
I can stay on while you build your cart for it.
Will my current AppleTV continue to work after the one announced today is released?
I am really sorry for keeping you waiting, I'll be just another moment.
Yes you can continue to use your current Apple TV with iTunes.
And continue to rent / buy movies and music? Sorry - I just need to know exactly what to expect.
Yes.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Randal D is typing...
 
But, that couldn't happen.

You can't let the $99 Apple "hobby" accessory do things that the $2500 "Apple Pro" workstation can't do.

The unfortunately misnamed "Pro" systems will have to have support for the common ("common" for most every company but Apple) 1080p standard before the consumer toys.

What? My comment is not about putting a BD Player in the new :apple:TV- just chips capable of 1080p instead of maxing out at 720p.

I think you read that as me saying it should have a BD Player. Else, even the Mac Mini can easily handle 1080p video. Even older ones. The Mac Pro could probably run 12+ monitors of full 1080p at the same time. That would have sold me a lot faster than "smaller", "netflix", and a better cpu (though those latter 2 are nice new features no doubt).

I just wish this new little box could have had the same hardware capability to output 1080p like a <$99 WD box, and a lot of <$100 BD Players (that also come with a disc drive and a laser).
 
I like the new footprint but I'm disappointed they excluded the composite outputs. My HDMI inputs are already used up on my receiver and I didn't want to use one for the ATV. Plus I like being able to play music or movies without having to boot up the MacBook. I like the looks but I'm taking a pass until mine fails.

It's a little more hassle,but you could use an inexpensive HDMI switch like I do already.
 
If you roll your own DVD rips, you have an even choice as you can decide how to encode them into a format that works on either.

I can not believe folks are still procrastinating with DVD media (480p) in 21 century.
I guess this is the most advanced media of choice for folks who exclusively rely on Apple technological wizardry.

I switched to DLNA HD streaming(WHS) about 3 years ago and never looked back. I have collection of the BD players, but I stopped using them a long time ago. Common, DVD 480p movies ?!? - it is just embarrassing to bring this old corpses(DVD) to discussions this days. I got LG BD550/570 for Vudu streaming, but never got to use it as there was no need yet. When I get a new BD - it goes through rip->storage (1.5h) or rip->1080/720(2pass x264 on W7/i7)->storage process (4.5h total) and then to the box and I never see it again.

Folks, you need to get out-of-the-box time-to-time.
 
Umm, have you ever heard a mac person talk to a PC person before about their Macs? If talking down to people makes someone sound like an ass, then every mac person I've ever talked to, is one.

We sound confident. People assume that we're talking down to them because we can afford Apple products (high end) and people think we're being ****** by saying how much we love our Macs and couldn't imagine going back. It's perception.

If it's like the current :apple:TV, the USB is locked out from user access...

JB the TV? :D
 
You're wrong about that.

Starting at 56:00 "So what about content?" 59:34 the Internet tab has the subheadings: Netflix, YouTube, Podcasts, MobileMe, Flickr, Radio. Steve also says "Podcasts. Thousands of podcasts. Audio and video podcasts." You can also stream content from your computer.

Cool, glad I was wrong. I hadn't seen the video yet and was going by the images Apple had of the home screen on the atv information page (the current Apple TV has a separate menu item for podcasts) and didn't see the podcasts menu.

Thanks...
 
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