Apple iOS and the new iPad are very limited.

[whtrbt7]

I'm having problems with the limitations that Apple have either applied or simply not developed to the iOS making the iPad a week product. I've had an iPad for 1 year and use it frequently with great frustration.

Examples to this problem is; not having easy access to the hard drive to store the data I want. Not being able to navigate to the files through a directory structure. Apple's workaround is to force me to access data through specific applications, and or having applications locked from accessing certain data on the iPad. This creates huge limits in feature developments for applications and results in poor functionality. Example exposure to music data for assessment is only available to iTunes. It's my music, if I want to brows to it through a directory, or have an application I write access this data and analyse it, Apple should not stop or limit my access.

All in I find apples iOS very limiting. Google are becoming very popular with Andriod on mobile devises, and from the limited exposure I've had to this OS their development policy feels more friendly to the end consumer. I think Android will be creating applications that surpass the iOS capabilities over the next couple of years.
When you also consider all mobile devices look almost identicle, Apple need to start and understand they are creating a platform for people to work with, not a polished finished product and dictate what I can and cannot do with the product. The difference in mindset is huge.

I recently posted that the iPad three is a dumb product. Although my post was short, some peoples response were very valid and the subject matter was hearing arguments on both sides. I'm hoping people see this as constructive thoughts not Trolling.

I'll choose to field this one too. My opinions are my opinions and I don't seek to change your opinion of the device but rather to give an alternative view to see if I can transform your view of the product.

First funny thing I should say is "You're using it wrong" lol. Just kidding. You seem to have some valid concerns that I shared when I first started working on the iPad.

Apple tends to view it's products as part of an ecosystem of their own products. There are multiple reasons for Apple formulating the iPad the way they did. I'll attempt to answer some of your questions in a list.

1. The iPad doesn't use a normal file system. The reason why it does this is so you don't have to look for your documents the same way on a desktop. The iPad is a smart enough device that wants to make your access instantaneous. Hence, when you want to open document files, you either open the Quickoffice App or the Pages app in order to access what you want. If you only know the name of what you want but don't know the file type, you can use the search function to locate your file and the appropriate application will open. It's a pretty smart way of doing things but it means that you'll need to give up organizing files like you've traditionally done on a desktop OS. This was very frustrating for me when going from Windows to OSX and also when going from Windows Mobile to Android and iOS. You have to free up your beliefs that you know what you're doing and trust the file system management to store your files for you. Once you free up the space to believe that your computer can do it for you, it starts to get ingrained in you that you can just chuck your files at the device and not give it a second thought. Your device is working for you, not the other way around.

2. iTunes works like the file system method that Apple uses. It uses a relational db to handle all of your music. The toughest part of organizing music before was making sure all of the meta data was filled in. Once that happened, if you wanted to let's say pull up all Jazz music from 1945, you just type in jazz 1945 and voila! If you wanted to save this specific folder, you make a Smart folder and it will perpetually add new content whenever you have more content. So it reduces management of your music. So if I added in more Jazz from 1945, iTunes will just pull the data automatically into the smart folder without me having to physically place the music there. If you wanted a custom mix of music, you just create a new playlist and add songs manually. Funny thing is, the Genius feature will automatically generate new playlists for you based on what you put together so if you wanted the same style but all new music, Genius playlist would gather the music for you.

3. So in calling the iPad a "dumb product" it's not that it's dumb, it's just that you haven't really allowed yourself to have something else do the hard work for you. Apple products are built for people that don't want to manage their data or music, or files. You just pop it somewhere on the device and you can search for it at anytime quickly. If that's not right for you then you should use Android or Windows Phone but I will tell you from personal experience that once you start believing that these tasks can be done for you, you'll want to function like that in perpetuity.

 

[Redjericho]

pretty much every complain you have is solved with a jailbreak.
you can litteraly edit the ipad's and ios core files on your device.

 

[Vidikron]

Different point whether or not AirPlay does what you WANT it to do.

You stated an invalid observation (AirPlay makes you lose use of your iPad...a false representation of the facts), you were corrected, now you are state that AirVideo is the only app that lets you do what you want.

Do you even know what you want here or are you just arguing for arguments' sake?

In my case it absolutely was not a false representation. AirPlay is just a protocol, you have to use an app or program that utilizes that protocol. In my case, AirVideo does what I want, but its Air Play implementation doesn't allow me to continue using the iPad normally. Whether it's AirVideo's fault or some limitation of Air Play is completely immaterial. I can't continue using my iPad while Air Playing the video I want. Period.

As for am I arguing just to argue, we are talking about iPad limitations here, right? Pretty sure we are. And in this case it's multiple limitations that have lead to my situation... lack of internal storage, limited file format support, and limited networking support. As a result, I have to cobble together solutions. This means jailbreaking and using XBMC or using the AirVideo app plus AirVideo server on my computer.

 

[LostSoul80]

1. The iPad doesn't use a normal file system. The reason why it does this is so you don't have to look for your documents the same way on a desktop. The iPad is a smart enough device that wants to make your access instantaneous. Hence, when you want to open document files, you either open the Quickoffice App or the Pages app in order to access what you want. If you only know the name of what you want but don't know the file type, you can use the search function to locate your file and the appropriate application will open. It's a pretty smart way of doing things but it means that you'll need to give up organizing files like you've traditionally done on a desktop OS. This was very frustrating for me when going from Windows to OSX and also when going from Windows Mobile to Android and iOS. You have to free up your beliefs that you know what you're doing and trust the file system management to store your files for you. Once you free up the space to believe that your computer can do it for you, it starts to get ingrained in you that you can just chuck your files at the device and not give it a second thought. Your device is working for you, not the other way around.

iOS uses a "normal" UNIX-like OS' file system, which makes use of metadata as pretty much any file system you can think of.
For further information you can read this:
http://developer.apple.com/library/...de/FileSystemOverview/FileSystemOverview.html

Apple doesn't allow you to browse through the directories outside your application though. This is why iOS is "limited" is this sense.

2. iTunes works like the file system method that Apple uses. It uses a relational db to handle all of your music. The toughest part of organizing music before was making sure all of the meta data was filled in. Once that happened, if you wanted to let's say pull up all Jazz music from 1945, you just type in jazz 1945 and voila! If you wanted to save this specific folder, you make a Smart folder and it will perpetually add new content whenever you have more content. So it reduces management of your music. So if I added in more Jazz from 1945, iTunes will just pull the data automatically into the smart folder without me having to physically place the music there. If you wanted a custom mix of music, you just create a new playlist and add songs manually. Funny thing is, the Genius feature will automatically generate new playlists for you based on what you put together so if you wanted the same style but all new music, Genius playlist would gather the music for you.

That's incorrect. iTunes doesn't replace or attempts to replace any file system (that wouldn't make any sense). It's important as it's a unified interface for a series of tasks, among which the perhaps most important is to sync and organize your media with an Apple device. Which isn't really that hard to implement or to find anyways, even though Apple's one is very mature and does handle a lot more tasks.

 

[Dmunjal]

There is a file system on iOS. IFile proves this. Why can't Apple do both? Leave everything the way it is but add these three things:

1. IFile-like native app
2. Standard file location for all apps
3. An "attachment" button in the email app.

I think this would make the power users happy while keeping things simple for Grandma. Maybe even make the iFile app an option to install separately.

 

[whtrbt7]

iOS uses a "normal" UNIX-like OS' file system, which makes use of metadata as pretty much any file system you can think of.
For further information you can read this:
http://developer.apple.com/library/...de/FileSystemOverview/FileSystemOverview.html

Apple doesn't allow you to browse through the directories outside your application though. This is why iOS is "limited" is this sense.



That's incorrect. iTunes doesn't replace or attempts to replace any file system (that wouldn't make any sense). It's important as it's a unified interface for a series of tasks, among which the perhaps most important is to sync and organize your media with an Apple device. Which isn't really that hard to implement or to find anyways, even though Apple's one is very mature and does handle a lot more tasks.

What I'm saying is that Apple omitted the file system in favor of relational db functionality. Of course iOS is a shell on top of a warmed over UNIX but the magic happens from the front-side of the OS, because it relays control to the system, not the user. All the user sees is what they need. Of course if you JB your iPad and install iFile or if you SSH in, you have full control over all the functions of the iPad anyways.

iTunes is about the same in terms of replacing the file system of days past. It has a relational db which stores XML data in order to organize music. The base files are then stored in a folder system which the user doesn't see unless they have access to the back end through a file explorer. While it does also handle linkage and sync with iDevices, it also is an important data storage/data management application which simplifies the horrors of MP3/AAC/AIFF/AL management with meta data. Not that it handles video too, it's become much more than just a music management application. Those who use the system as it was designed will undoubtedly have a better system to work with other than people that try to fight the system. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

 

[LostSoul80]

What I'm saying is that Apple omitted the file system in favor of relational db functionality. Of course iOS is a shell on top of a warmed over UNIX but the magic happens from the front-side of the OS, because it relays control to the system, not the user. All the user sees is what they need. Of course if you JB your iPad and install iFile or if you SSH in, you have full control over all the functions of the iPad anyways.

The user is not given privileges outside the execution of signed apps. This is a design choice which has pros and cons.

iTunes is about the same in terms of replacing the file system of days past. It has a relational db which stores XML data in order to organize music. The base files are then stored in a folder system which the user doesn't see unless they have access to the back end through a file explorer. While it does also handle linkage and sync with iDevices, it also is an important data storage/data management application which simplifies the horrors of MP3/AAC/AIFF/AL management with meta data. Not that it handles video too, it's become much more than just a music management application. Those who use the system as it was designed will undoubtedly have a better system to work with other than people that try to fight the system. That's the point I'm trying to make here.

Again, I think that's quite incorrect. A file system is necessary for an OS to run, and everything relies on it. iTunes acts just as a sync tool, which is nothing strange. Arguable is the fact that iTunes is virtually the only interlocutor of iOS.
I don't think anyone would like to mess around with iTunes' folders, that wouldn't make sense. But not relying on an application for certain tasks would certainly contribute to make iOS less "limited".
Also, strictly speaking most tags are saved within media files. iTunes just creates a DB to avoid loading directly a media file, but it's not required in order to get information on it. Future implementations (and not that future) could eliminate the need of a database of course.

 

[Night Spring]

In my case it absolutely was not a false representation. AirPlay is just a protocol, you have to use an app or program that utilizes that protocol. In my case, AirVideo does what I want, but its Air Play implementation doesn't allow me to continue using the iPad normally. Whether it's AirVideo's fault or some limitation of Air Play is completely immaterial. I can't continue using my iPad while Air Playing the video I want.

I may be wrong, but I don't think Air Video uses Air Play. It uses its own stream server program that we have to download and install on our PC/Mac. Yes, the result is similar, but the underlining tech is different, which is why Air Video stops streaming when you switch away from the app, while Air Play can keep streaming in the background.

 

[whtrbt7]

The user is not given privileges outside the execution of signed apps. This is a design choice which has pros and cons.



Again, I think that's quite incorrect. A file system is necessary for an OS to run, and everything relies on it. iTunes acts just as a sync tool, which is nothing strange. Arguable is the fact that iTunes is virtually the only interlocutor of iOS.
I don't think anyone would like to mess around with iTunes' folders, that wouldn't make sense. But not relying on an application for certain tasks would certainly contribute to make iOS less "limited".
Also, strictly speaking most tags are saved within media files. iTunes just creates a DB to avoid loading directly a media file, but it's not required in order to get information on it. Future implementations (and not that future) could eliminate the need of a database of course.

Again, you're misunderstanding. I'm saying that iTunes uses a relational db so the user doesn't need to use a file system. Of course an OS needs to have an underlying file system otherwise it wouldn't work. It's just about separating out the experience for a user compared to a power user or sysadmin. While in a sense it may seem that it limits functionality, it's more that it extends ability for users by changing the way they view and interact with data. iTunes doesn't just create a db to avoid loading the meta of a media file but it also makes that data available to other subsystems so it's easier to organize and access data you want instead of just rifling through media files that will take time to load. I seriously don't see Apple straying from the db files since it's so entrenched in all of their apps all the MS apps, and even other 3rd party ones too such as Adobe CS. The trend seems to be going the same way Solaris is going towards having multiple dbs to control metadata for faster access and even accessing relational data. Isn't that the whole point of automation?

 

[waynep]

IOS is derived from OSX. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS

There is a file system under the covers. We just don't have access to it like a Finder or Windows Explorer. I am new to the iPad. It is a different way to do things. Part of why I bought a Mac a year ago was I was tired of "managing" my home computer. Anti virus, defrag, other maintenance etc. I wanted to spend less time managing my computer and more time using it. I feel the same about my iPad. I don't care about file system access as long a I can get my work done.

The iPad is NOT a full fledged computer. As much as the iPad can do, there are some things that are just easier on my Mac.

Today I needed some mailing labels. I downloaded a template from Avery, and added a picture and address to the mailing label. I then had to duplicate the label 30 times for a page so I can print them out. Well I suppose I could've done this on my iPad, it was just faster and easier to get done on my Mac. Now that I have the template downloaded I might try it with my iPad just for fun. The template I found was actually an Avery template for Pages.

This was written with the dictation feature on my iPad.

 

[newdeal]

I'm having problems with the limitations that Apple have either applied or simply not developed to the iOS making the iPad a week product. I've had an iPad for 1 year and use it frequently with great frustration.

Examples to this problem is; not having easy access to the hard drive to store the data I want. Not being able to navigate to the files through a directory structure.Its not a computer stop trying to make it one, it is not designed to be Apple's workaround is to force me to access data through specific applications, and or having applications locked from accessing certain data on the iPad This is the best protection from viruses and since it has limited processing power and can't run an antivirus app I will take this any day. This creates huge limits in feature developments for applications and results in poor functionality. Example exposure to music data for assessment is only available to iTunes. It's my music, if I want to brows to it through a directory, or have an application I write access this data and analyse it, Apple should not stop or limit my access. Stop thinking of it as a computer, if you want to do this get a laptop

All in I find apples iOS very limiting. Google are becoming very popular with Andriod on mobile devises, and from the limited exposure I've had to this OS their development policy feels more friendly to the end consumer. Android on tablets sucks, these extra features go mostly unused anyway but are there to make people like you feel like they have control while at the same time opening the entire platform to far more security risks and poor performance I think Android will be creating applications that surpass the iOS capabilities over the next couple of years Not likely, even if you take the same app on iOS and android running very similar hardware the android versions performance sucks because the OS is not optimized to do anything smoothly.
When you also consider all mobile devices look almost identicle, Apple need to start and understand they are creating a platform for people to work with, not a polished finished product and dictate what I can and cannot do with the product. The difference in mindset is huge. Since they are the most valuable company in the world I doubt they need to take your advice to heart at all, if people didn't like their business model then they wouldn't be selling so many devices

I recently posted that the iPad three is a dumb product This is actually perfect because the United States generally is filled with dumb people so its aimed directly towards a huge market that no one has been trying to sell products to...the computer illiterate (and in the US probably the just generally illiterate also). Although my post was short, some peoples response were very valid and the subject matter was hearing arguments on both sides. I'm hoping people see this as constructive thoughts not Trolling.

I would say my responses are valid. I have owned an iPhone, all of the iPads, a galaxy 10.1 and a HTC desire HD (as well as a Nexus S for a couple weeks which I returned due to some serious bugs in the capitative buttons) so unlike most people I have actually ted the products and am not just talking out of my butt

 

[LostSoul80]

Again, you're misunderstanding. I'm saying that iTunes uses a relational db so the user doesn't need to use a file system. Of course an OS needs to have an underlying file system otherwise it wouldn't work. It's just about separating out the experience for a user compared to a power user or sysadmin. While in a sense it may seem that it limits functionality, it's more that it extends ability for users by changing the way they view and interact with data. iTunes doesn't just create a db to avoid loading the meta of a media file but it also makes that data available to other subsystems so it's easier to organize and access data you want instead of just rifling through media files that will take time to load. I seriously don't see Apple straying from the db files since it's so entrenched in all of their apps all the MS apps, and even other 3rd party ones too such as Adobe CS. The trend seems to be going the same way Solaris is going towards having multiple dbs to control metadata for faster access and even accessing relational data. Isn't that the whole point of automation?

I'm not misunderstanding.
Everyone agrees that iOS is "limited", closed compared to Android or to a computer OS. I don't think that's arguable in any way, and that's the topic.

Saying this approach is a good one is Apple's opinion. In no way you're experiencing extended functionalities. You can experience only the limitation imposed by the OS, which is not bad at all in most cases, as it can grant privacy, security, stability to a certain extent. At the sime time you could (for example) organize your documents in a more intelligent way by means of directories, effectively making everything more personal and thus usable. iOS is a closed environment, and has a lot of downsides.
The iOS user is quite limited in the range of tasks he can perform as a consequence. And again this has pros and cons.
As for iTunes, it makes use of databases because it's convenient, but if reading from disk was much faster then there would probably be no need of them. Reading the header part of a file (a few kbs) to retrieve information isn't a strange idea also. But it's pretty useless to discuss whether iTunes' use of databases is the best approach or not to handle data.

 

[balamw]

I'm saying that iTunes uses a relational db so the user doesn't need to use a file system.

This.

There's a real tradeoff and paradigm shift at work here. For most users, letting iTunes manage their music using the tags allows the music to be organized in many different ways. The app knows more about the data than the OS so it can generally provide better access to it that a file system can. THis is great for things like iTunes where you have many relatively small pieces of data with different attributes.

The tradeoff is that it becomes harder to move and use data between different apps without an "equalizing" file system. It also becomes harder to group different pieces of data that belong to different apps by "project".

That said. On iOS, Dropbox and Goodreader are good enough file system alternatives for me.

B

 

[dmccloud]

But the real concern is how this impacts the applications created for the iPad. There are many ideas for cool apps that cannot get realized on the iOS due to these lacking features. This is hard to qualify but I believe it does impact the overall experience of the end user and the products potential.

There's over 500,000 apps for iOS that handle all sorts of tasks. Sounds to me like the lack of a filesystem is NOT a limitation as you have indicated. If you were correct then not only would there be MORE apps for Android, but you'd see MORE developers becoming interested in Android development instead of fewer developers. The numbers and facts don't support your contention on this one.

 

[GaresTaylan]

You have these problems but you kept the iPad for a full year? What?

 

[bill-p]

I'm having problems with the limitations that Apple have either applied or simply not developed to the iOS making the iPad a week product. I've had an iPad for 1 year and use it frequently with great frustration.

Examples to this problem is; not having easy access to the hard drive to store the data I want. Not being able to navigate to the files through a directory structure. Apple's workaround is to force me to access data through specific applications, and or having applications locked from accessing certain data on the iPad. This creates huge limits in feature developments for applications and results in poor functionality. Example exposure to music data for assessment is only available to iTunes. It's my music, if I want to brows to it through a directory, or have an application I write access this data and analyse it, Apple should not stop or limit my access.

All in I find apples iOS very limiting. Google are becoming very popular with Andriod on mobile devises, and from the limited exposure I've had to this OS their development policy feels more friendly to the end consumer. I think Android will be creating applications that surpass the iOS capabilities over the next couple of years.
When you also consider all mobile devices look almost identicle, Apple need to start and understand they are creating a platform for people to work with, not a polished finished product and dictate what I can and cannot do with the product. The difference in mindset is huge.

I recently posted that the iPad three is a dumb product. Although my post was short, some peoples response were very valid and the subject matter was hearing arguments on both sides. I'm hoping people see this as constructive thoughts not Trolling.

I think it's worth noting that if you are developer, you can request to access the whole iTunes library, so third-party apps can at least read from the iTunes library just fine. If you want to "analyze" music data, that is.

Other than that, nothing prevents you from storing your files in one central application that you can use to manage them. No one has made one (that is fully functional) thus far because it was never a necessity.

If you want to manage 2000+ big files, I don't think you should use a tablet.

 

[TheWheelMan]

I'm having problems with the limitations that Apple have either applied or simply not developed to the iOS making the iPad a week product. I've had an iPad for 1 year and use it frequently with great frustration...

Probably should be sure to spell "weak" correctly if you're going to be so unfairly critical of the iPad.

 

[Dmunjal]

There's over 500,000 apps for iOS that handle all sorts of tasks. Sounds to me like the lack of a filesystem is NOT a limitation as you have indicated. If you were correct then not only would there be MORE apps for Android, but you'd see MORE developers becoming interested in Android development instead of fewer developers. The numbers and facts don't support your contention on this one.

Then why are there special apps that require jailbreak? Seems the 500k apps have something missing?

 

[Night Spring]

Then why are there special apps that require jailbreak? Seems the 500k apps have something missing?

Well of course there are many stuff missing. The question is, do most users care about those missing features? My mom has been using iPads for about a year and half now, she's just gotten my aunt a refurbed iPad 2, and I'm passing my iPad 2 to my cousin. They barely know what a file system is on a computer, so they won't miss it on their iPads. They'll use the iPads to FaceTime each other, and maybe download some games. Maybe they'll figure out how to surf the Internet. iPads are great for people like them. And users like me who wants more control over my files and customize our iPads can jailbreak. As I said before, I think it's great that my aunt and cousin can use the iPad for what hey need without a tech support person there to hold their hand, and I can pretty much do 95% of stuff I need to do on my iPad, and for the remaining 5%, I have my iMac.

 

[striker33]

OP clearly failed to realise a tablet isnt a laptop. The lack of physical keyboard should have been a dead giveaway surely?

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

OP clearly failed to realise a tablet isnt a laptop. The lack of physical keyboard should have been a dead giveaway surely?

While I personally believe that the OP doesn't understand much about iOS in general, a keyboard doesn't negate the tablet moniker as is evidenced by the large number of bluetooth keyboards available for the iPad as well as the ASUS Android tablet/keyboard combo:

 

[dmccloud]

Then why are there special apps that require jailbreak? Seems the 500k apps have something missing?

Because those apps do things that are against the Apple Developer agreement and therefore cannot be made available through the App Store. 25 BILLION app downloads through the App Store, and you're now claiming they're all lacking something. Reality called, your check bounced again...

 

[brentsg]

I recently posted that the iPad three is a dumb product. Although my post was short, some peoples response were very valid and the subject matter was hearing arguments on both sides. I'm hoping people see this as constructive thoughts not Trolling.

Just because a particular product doesn't work for you doesn't make it a dumb product. Have you still not figured this out?

Trucks and mini vans don't make sense in my household. I was able to navigate around these tragic product shortcomings by not buying one. I have not found a need to go trolling truck and mini van forums.

 

[whtrbt7]

If you're purchasing an Apple device, you should be expecting to invest into Apple's architecture. It's been better for me which means it will probably be better for most users out there. It's like the difference between a candle and a lightbulb. The candle still emits light but the the lightbulb is light on demand and usable for its life. Apple controls the quality of the apps as well as the terms of use. They also control the device as well as the operating system. What we are fighting over is access to not a file system but a file browser.

The majority of users don't care if the iOS devices have a file browser. The minority that does can just JB so they can have the function available. Even though I've JBed my share of devices in the past, I don't see the average Joe or Jane needing a file browser. It only gets in the way of what they really want. From my point of view, I see possibilities, not limitations when I don't have a file browser. I work with a lot of SQL databases so I can see how relational dbs can completely replace file browsers as well as backend access for users. The more users have access to the backend, the more things can go wrong. I don't see things as having stuff missing but rather it's like locking out functions that normal people don't need to be touching. It's like wearing clothes, you don't want everyone looking at your private parts or touching them on the street (well, some of you freaky ones might ).

 

[astrorider]

Another "iPad needs a filesystem" thread? Goodreader or Dropbox make this just about a non-issue if you really need one.