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Apple iPhone Apps Coming, but Limited

gwangung said:
Well, given that the article SAYS that there will be 3rd party apps, but they will have to approved by Apple, I don't think you're going out on a limb.

However, all the folks whining about the "NO" third party apps seems to have flunked basic reading comprehension 101.
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Yes, Google Maps and Yahoo! Mail just being 2 examples. :)
 
voidptr said:
Imagine a world where Apple "certified" all the apps for the Macintosh. Imagine a world where Apple "certified" all the Podcasts you could put on your iPod.

Central control of content is a dying model, and Cell phones are the last stronghold of that model. That despite comments to the contrary at the Keynote on Tuesday Apple couldn't put a bigger beachhead into breaching that model is sad, and ultimately will hurt the iPhone from achieving it's true potential.

Maybe this is a start, and maybe in 5 years it'll have been the initial shot needed to bring the cell phone world into the 21st century as promised. But it may also be the failure that dooms us to their current model for decades to come.
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Don't forget central control is also a model that rules the console video gaming industry. Remember the history behind its being that way, too (Atari).

FWIW, and just adding to the discussion.
 
gwangung said:
Well, given that the article SAYS that there will be 3rd party apps, but they will have to approved by Apple, I don't think you're going out on a limb.

However, all the folks whining about the "NO" third party apps seems to have flunked basic reading comprehension 101.
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QFE

He never said "there will be no 3rd party apps". He said he wants more control over them. And if that means a better user experience, great. And if the apps are so great that people will simply die without them, they will overcome any certification that Apple may require, or whatever.

But all this hysteria over a product still-in-the-making is ridiculous.
 
Macheath_Messer said:
Don't forget central control is also a model that rules the console video gaming industry. Remember the history behind its being that way, too (Atari).

FWIW, and just adding to the discussion.
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iTMS seems like a pretty serious example of the central control model as well. Wouldn't you say?
 
Big mistake. And jobs is full of ****.

How is this any different than a computer and not needing it to crash. (And the bringing down the Cingular network is ********.)

The truth of the matter is this all comes down to Skype.

If Apple opened the API, Skype would be the first app. And there is no way Cingular would want that.

Jobs is pullinh his punches here, and falling short of a revolution. The younger, bolder jobs would of gotten Skype built right in.

The future is an automatic switching phone between wi-fi with VOIP and cell when wi-fi is not available.

Util the iPhone does that, Jobs is simply sucking the toes of Cingular.
 
there are 200 patents on this thing and it was made under the highest amount of secrecy possible. people were working on parts of software without seeing hardware, people didnt know what they were working on, etc. now it sees the light of day and is expected to work beautifully with third party software. just buckle up for the ride and quit complaining. see you all in june.
 
Curious how enabling Skype on the iPhone would make Cingular suffer, as:
  • You have to get the phone from Cingular ($600)
  • You have to pay for a two year contract with Cingular (at $50 a month for 2 years = $1200),
  • You pay for data usage with Cingular (at $20 a month for 2 years = $480).
  • Early termination fee is about $200 (guessing here).

So assuming you did the worst thing and bought the phone, and canceled early, and used Skype on Wi-Fi only, you'd still pay Cingular $200 for the phone. And if you kept Cingular, you'd pay them even more.
 
ksz said:
I'll go further and hope that all major and minor metropolitan areas in the United States and around the world get blanketed by free/public WiFi and an abundance of VOIP/Skype phones. In that case I will most certainly cancel my mobile service and just rent cellular phones for those infrequent trips through the "boonies."
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Yeah. Seems like that will be the driving force if it's going to happen. If there is a solution based on localized Wifi and that market expands to the point that it pressures cell providers to incorporate it into their model.

Do you think enough people will embrace the localized solution to make that happen? When?
 
harmless said:
I do.


My old Treo did. If it doesn't, why should I throw serious money at it?


Yes it is.


Because an iPod does not have the capability to act as a full purpose computer. The iPhone does.


I disagree. There's nothing unrealistic about installing 3rd party applications on a smartphone. Heck, that's the *point* of a smartphone!

At least it is for me.

There's no room for argument here. Either I can install any 3rd party app I want, or there will be no business.
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Well don't bloody get one, then. Stick with your old treo, then.

Yeesh! the whining goes on and on!
 
Jeonat said:
I haven't read all this thread but here is my 2p.

No 3rd party apps is a real deal breaker for me. The iPhone is a mini-computer and you expect to be able to install the programs you want. Okay so Steve might be concerned about user experience and 3rd party apps mucking up the phone and dropping calls, but other manufacturers manage to make phones that support 3rd party apps that don't crash the phone. My M600i works perfectly with the many 3rd party Symbian apps I have installed on it. Is Steve so paranoid about the stability of his "mini-OSX" that he needs apps to be controlled by him?

Which brings me on to my next point. Controlled apps. This is just Big Brother mentality, someone said earlier about a developer certification program. This will be NO good for the end user. Why? Because Apple will refuse to certify apps that do the same things (but better, with more features, or more familiarity) as it's iApps. So you can rule out VLC, Adium, Skype and stuff like that. And I also seriously doubt that apps like Skype would be approved anyway because of the ability to cut down on the carriers' voice revenue. And don't say Apple isn't interested in that - they did an exclusive deal with Cingular for goodness sake!

This is turning into a lame duck product. I love the idea, I love some of the technical concepts but I think I will stick to my Symbian phone where I can do what I want on it!
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Exactly. Folks, look at it another way: Those of you that think this is just a phone, well...... OK, that's your right.

However some of us look at this as an entirely new platform. Just like the Apple ][/PC in the early eighties gave us a virtual machine that could be defined to do anything, this little machine gives us the same, but in the communications sphere.

Look at what happened with Palm. They came out with the platform, delivered a (then) sane API and it exploded. No one, least of all Palm, had any idea that post offices and courier companies around the world would develop their own apps so that you, the customer, would sign off on a Palm screen.

If apple cannot design a machine where the integral functions (phone, low-level communications) are behind a chinese wall, while 3rd party programs get clobbered, then this device remains a gadget.

And, wrt Apple QC.... please. Look at the top ten apps on PalmGear - no Palm in sight. Some of these guys are big now, but started as small developers. AQC will stifle that.

As someone posted earlier, if you just want to use it as a phone, fine. Don't install any other apps.

This device has the capability to define whole new paradigms of interaction, not just wrt to HCI (where it makes me drool), but also in communications.

We are a small house involved with short-range radio communications, incl. BT, and after we saw the Keynote, we had a brainstorming session to see what we could develop for this. The top three would do stuff that no other smartphone would be able to because of the mix between three radio technologies and the interface. And no, ya can't do that with widgets.

I really, really hope Apple changes its mind on this. It could define new industries.

Ugh, back to hacking vertical market PalmOS apps. :(
 
"craplets"

Macrumors said:


A New York Times article reveals some information about Apple's iPhone and the possibility of 3rd party application.

The article quotes Steve Jobs about why Apple does not want to allow any 3rd party developer make applications for the iPhone:



While saying this, Jobs does reveal that there will likely be additional applications that can be bought later and installed, but that this will be in a "controlled environment". Apple adopts a similar approach with iPod game development -- only allowing specific products to be developed and released.
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Good look at what happens when you do not have control over 3rd
party software http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/01/11/craplets.and.vista/

"Craplets" may affect Vista experience

Microsoft is worried that unwanted software bundles could affect the success of Windows Vista, according to a senior Microsoft executive. The anonymous official says that many of the pre-installed third-party programs included with new Windows PCs which he calls "craplets" due to their small and often irritating nature, may be incompatible with Vista and could create unintentional ill will towards Microsoft through bugs or even a complete failure to run, according to Electronista. "If someone buys a Vista PC and has a problem, they're going to blame Windows," he said. Microsoft wants to control the initial experience with its own operating system but claims to be hampered by legal restrictions that prevent it from dictating the software third-party system builders can load on new PCs. Additionally, many Windows system vendors choose to pre-install third-party freeware or trial versions in exchange for pay, reducing the overall price of the system.
 
dan-o-mac said:
I'm not really concerned if the OS is full or mini version. My main concern is quotes like this, “We define everything that is on the phone". Thanks, but no thanks. What if I wanted Adium on my phone but Apple doesn't. Let the user decide what they want on the phone, let them take responsibility.
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If Adium or Skype (or even iChat) were allowed on the phone, wouldn't Cingular be put out? Free calls via WiFi would make their bills seem pretty high.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread, so apologies if this has been said.

Edit: And it has been...
 
voidptr said:
If anything, there's two apps Cingular doesn't want on this phone, and it's likely they'll keep everything else off it to keep it that way:
* A VOIP client so I can make voice calls without the cell network when I'm in wifi range.
* An instant messanger client other than the SMS app Apple already demo'd.
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I completely agree.
 
iAgree

bretm said:
Well, that won't be entirely true for long. Technology drives capitalism and science forward, but it also creates a perpetual "keep up" state. If all your competitors are using a a car to deliver pizza and you're using a horse and wagon, YES you do "need" a car. At some point, you will "need" an iphone or similar device to stay competitive.

Nobody really "needed" the internet. But they do now. Kids wouldn't be able keep up. Business wouldn't be able to target markets. Etc. If the competition is utilizing the internet to be more productive and in turn charge less, you NEED the internet too.

Nobody needed cell phones. Hey, we've got phone booths, right? And people stop when your car breaks down and help you out, right? Nope. Public phones are essentially a thing of the past and since everyone is expected to have a cell phone, nobody stops to help. Stores even look at you like you're homeless if you ask to borrow their phone. Used to be a common occurence.
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No worries ... I´m all with you on that ! Let the "Need" for the iPhone begin ;o)
 
Call me crazy, but considering this thing costs as much as a damn computer, I'd rather it actually be more like one than like an iPod which doesn't carry a 24*60 contract.

iPhone is crippled to the max.
 
Yeah it's Cingular and Cingular alone who have kept the iPhone crippled. No 3rd party apps purely for fear of the inevitable Skype app.

This is the killer-blow for me regarding the iPhone. Opening up the platform would have seen an explosion of content for the device. It would have been a very exciting development platform, and that would have made it stand-out from other phones/devices.

It's sad to see it being kept so restricted, and it's definitely taking a lot of the shine off the device.
 
After G said:
Curious how enabling Skype on the iPhone would make Cingular suffer, as:
  • You have to get the phone from Cingular ($600)
  • You have to pay for a two year contract with Cingular (at $50 a month for 2 years = $1200),
  • You pay for data usage with Cingular (at $20 a month for 2 years = $480).
  • Early termination fee is about $200 (guessing here).

So assuming you did the worst thing and bought the phone, and canceled early, and used Skype on Wi-Fi only, you'd still pay Cingular $200 for the phone. And if you kept Cingular, you'd pay them even more.
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well, lets see...last I looke you have to pay for buckets of minutes, no unlimited usage with Cingular...so you pay $200, plus minutes, plus a fee for internet, plus a fee for texting, plus...etc., etc. You are bone broke if you go with Cingular. :D
 
It is critical that at least the iPhone could run Keynote and PowerPoint for wireless computerless presentatations. After all, there is Mac OS X inside and that could be done!
 
DTphonehome said:
The more I think about the iPhone, the more I realize that it will never (in it's current form) replace Treos, WinMobile devices, or Blackberrys, despite Steve's assertions that the iPhone is "smarter" than they are.

However, the iPhone WILL still be a runaway success, as it will be marketed at all those people who DON'T have a smartphone, and currently use lackluster phones from Moto, Nokia, LG and others. That's a LOT more than 1% of the market (I would wager more like 80-90%!), which Apple is aiming for right now. So, even though it won't have the expandability of true smartphones, it will still have enough built-in and "Apple approved" apps to make it great for much of the phone-buying public.
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Right on the money there, matey.

It's rather ironic that Apple appeals massively to "nerds", who admire the rock-solid foundations of their products. However, they aren't really the target market - they're actually going for the "average" user, who wants an easy time of it.

Ultimately, which one of these consumer groups comprises the larger market share? If you were Apple/SJ, what would you do in the interests of your share holders?

Having said that, in this case, I do not really see a competition between the objectives of these two groups. Loading software onto your phone is a minority requirement and it will only be used by the minority - leaving the choice to the user, doesn't mean Gradma's going to be firing up some kernel hacks.

The truth is, it's just another Ipod-style ecosystem and Apple wants full control - and the ability to generate revenue from it. The real tragedy, is the 3rd party developers who will be locked out of this platform - be sure, some WILL be locked out. Apple's transition to OS X, over the last 6 years, would not have been as successful, without their support. Its rather disrespectful to their investment, and capabilities, to welcome them into the sandpit when they're needed, but not otherwise.

Admittedly, Apple's attitude may soften over time. The product/OS is a first stab in a new market and, at this stage, I can understand their reluctance to jepordize it's brand image. However, whilst they are innovative with their solutions, historically, Apple is VERY slow to embrace corporate change - how many years did it take to get (insert gripe here)....

I can't say whether I will buy into this phone, as I do currently use a number of 3rd party apps on my phone and I like the idea of being able to extend it's functionality. It will be interesting to see how the other players respond to this threat. Individual's outside it's target market may also benefit, in a roundabout way.

Ideally, I would have liked the opportunity to, wholeheartedly, support Apple and this product. However, they seem to be aiming for someone else.

J
 
It's going to be interesting to see the fall-out from all this at the WWDC this year, as I believe it's in June the same time as the iPhone's launch.

I'd like to see them roll-out some form of OS X Mobile development platform there, but I can't see it happening.
 
Slingphone

Please oh please allow Sling Media to dev a Slingplayer for the iPhone.
 
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