iPhone 16 Pro Max Apple is out of their minds. This is unethical to say the least.

[gwhizkids]

Apple has always done this.
The original iPhone, and the iPhone 3G had identical processing hardware, yet iOS 3.0 added MMS, tethering and stereo Bluetooth features to the 3G.
iOS 4 ran on both the 3G and 3GS, but home screen backgrounds, limited multitasking, game center, personal hotspot, even something as simple as new text tones were restricted to the 3GS.
Siri was restricted to the iPhone 4S and iPad 3, despite the fact that the year old iPad 2 had the exact same processor, but even higher clock speeds than the 4S.
iOS 6 ran on the iPhone 4 and 3GS but only the 4S got 3D maps and turn by turn directions and several other improvements.

And every car manufacturer ever, TV manufacturer, video game console maker, and on and on and on … has given newer models newer features. It’s called giving people a reason to buy the newer things.

People here act like Apple is a public utility. It’s not. It is a for-profit company, and the name of the game is to get people to buy the stuff they make. Everything else they do…everything…is in service of that objective.

 

[timshundo]

OP is so funny. Thinking the ChatGPT app is running AI on their phone and not just feeding them lines of text from the cloud.

And hey, that's a perfectly reasonable offering to expect from Apple. But that's not what they're doing. Please feel free to continue using all those cloud apps.

 

[cptcaveman]

And hey, that's a perfectly reasonable offering to expect from Apple. But that's not what they're doing. Please feel free to continue using all those cloud apps.

This. And charge for it. Apple is nutty letting 95% of the install base have their initial AI experiences with Google, ChatGPT, ArcSearch, etc.

 

[cptcaveman]

And every car manufacturer ever, TV manufacturer, video game console maker, and on and on and on … has given newer models newer features. It’s called giving people a reason to buy the newer things.

It's illuminating that Apple still sees itself as a hardware company when services, at $100B a year, are its actual growth area.

Ideally, Apple could provide both an AI service to everyone (at a cost) and have new hardware that was compelling enough to upgrade to anyway.

 

[CrysisDeu]

What is different is ALL of the AI processing is done on the phone locally, which protects your privacy and requires dedicated AI hardware in the processor. Only when it needs ChatGPT to help the local processing will it do so, and ask your permission first.

But they can do it with their private compute cloud

 

[cptcaveman]

What is different is ALL of the AI processing is done on the phone locally, which protects your privacy and requires dedicated AI hardware in the processor. Only when it needs ChatGPT to help the local processing will it do so, and ask your permission first.

Factually incorrect. Apple only does some AI processing on-device, offloading things like text summarization to their cloud. ChatGPT is also used for some (most?) functions in the new Siri.

It's interesting that the app below, available now, can run AI on-device on almost any iPhone with a 3B parameter 4-bit quantized model, with a 7B parameter model supported on iPhone 14 Pro Max and above.

Apple's model is rumored to be 2B parameter 4-bit quantized and can apparently only run on iPhone 15 Pro and above...

‎Private LLM - Local AI Chat

‎Meet Private LLM: Your Secure, Offline AI Assistant for macOS Private LLM brings advanced AI capabilities directly to your iPhone, iPad, and Mac—all while keeping your data private and offline. With a one-time purchase and no subscriptions, you get a personal AI assistant that works entirely...

apps.apple.com

Maybe Apple needs to hire the app developer to help them with their "engineering" constraints...

 

[gwhizkids]

Factually incorrect. Apple only does some AI processing on-device, offloading things like text summarization to their cloud. ChatGPT is also used for some (most?) functions in the new Siri.

It's interesting that the app below, available now, can run AI on-device on almost any iPhone with a 3B parameter 4-bit quantized model, with a 7B parameter model supported on iPhone 14 Pro Max and above.

Apple's model is rumored to be 2B parameter 4-bit quantized and can apparently only run on iPhone 15 Pro and above...

‎Private LLM - Local AI Chat

‎Meet Private LLM: Your Secure, Offline AI Assistant for macOS Private LLM brings advanced AI capabilities directly to your iPhone, iPad, and Mac—all while keeping your data private and offline. With a one-time purchase and no subscriptions, you get a personal AI assistant that works entirely...

apps.apple.com

Maybe Apple needs to hire the app developer to help them with their "engineering" constraints...

Almost everything you say is incorrect. ChatGPT is opt in only and is only used for things for global knowledge not local knowledge. Text summarization is done all on device.

I suggest you go back and watch the WWDC presentation before you start posting incorrect information like you have here

 

[cptcaveman]

Almost everything you say is incorrect. ChatGPT is opt in only and is only used for things for global knowledge not local knowledge. Text summarization is done all on device.

I suggest you go back and watch the WWDC presentation before you start posting incorrect information like you have here

Thanks for the belly laugh, whizzkid! 😂

The OP made the bold statement, "What is different is ALL of the AI processing is done on the phone locally," which I was replying to.

Apple Intelligence uses both its own PCC and ChatGPT. I never even mentioned ChatGPT opt-in or opt-out. Nice strawman, champ!

Regarding Text summarization running in the cloud. Don't trust me, see for yourself:

 

[Velli]

So I am an iPhone 13 Pro Max user, and I also happen to be a HEAVY ai user.

I pay for ChatGPT and also perplexity, and have used midjourney and also Leonardo AI for image generation.

And this is why I am not buying apples BS about upgrading.

See, because I have been using these services on my three year old phone just fine, I know that there are AI features that can be run on the iPhone I have now.

I accept that some things like reading email and creating summaries take on device power, but don't you dare tell me that I need to pay you to get "all" the AI features.

To make things worse, this is the first apple event I missed.

I tuned into it, but then had a work call and missed pretty much everything iPhone related, and when I went to go look at Macrumors I saw what exactly. Typical Apple talking points rubbish:

* NEW PROCESSOR FASTEST BESTEST EVER.
* LOOK AT THE CAMERA WOW!

That is pretty much it, that and the mention of how the phone was "built for AI..." when again most of us that are actually interested in AI understand totally that we can use it on our three, four or even FIVE year old devices.

And let's talk about that launch, shall we?

I updated my M1 Pro macbook to 15 today because it was the RC, and there are ZERO ai features in this build. Not a single one.

So you expect users to pay to upgrade devices for software that is "coming soon," which can already run mostly fine on older devices now, huh?

Forced obsolesces is a thing. And apple is bringing this to an absurd degree.

Their tactics started getting really out of hand when they told users they cannot use portrait mode or noise isolation unless they are on Apple Silicon (when you can 100% do noise isolation with an app called Krisp on any processor), and it is getting way out of hand here.

I do love my apple products, but the way they are forcing upgrades is really unnerving, especially in the economy we are in where many of us decide what payment arrangement to make that much to feed out families.

Just gross.

In my view, Apple has a very direct focus on whatever maximizes their bottom line. Sometimes - I’d argue in fact often - what serves their bottom line is doing things that are good for the customers. But also often, this is not the case. Personally I’m mostly offended how much money Apple makes off gambling addicts (hidden as gaming addicts).

However, I have not found another company to support, that does not have the same focus, and/or in a better way tries to maximise the bottom line through doing good things for the customer. Apple has good sides and bad sides. I see the bad sides as a necessary evil I have to endure to enjoy the good sides. I have not found the alternative investment object that doesn’t have similar or worse issues once you start digging. It’s like finding the good media company - it simply doesn’t exist. So you either close your eyes and do whatever is best for yourself, or you choose the least bad option. Which for me in both cases is still Apple.

Just as a perspective, I’d have to Google to be sure whether the head of Samsung is still in jail or not…

I’d be curious to know which manufacturers of phones and computers you would like me to support, that are not guilty of making their products sound better than they are. That is just marketing, that doesn’t offend me. There are many things Apple does that are a lot more offensive to me, than that.

 

[Velli]

It's illuminating that Apple still sees itself as a hardware company when services, at $100B a year, are its actual growth area.

Please provide your evidence that “Apple still sees itself as a hardware company”.

“People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.” -Steve Jobs.

 

[cptcaveman]

Please provide your evidence that “Apple still sees itself as a hardware company”.

“People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.” -Steve Jobs.

Glad you asked.

If Apple had regarded itself more as a software company than a box shipper, it may have, for example, made Apple Intelligence a subscription service as part of Apple One instead of holding it back as a driver for the hardware upgrade cycle.

 

[Velli]

Glad you asked.

If Apple had regarded itself more as a software company than a box shipper, it may have, for example, made Apple Intelligence a subscription service as part of Apple One instead of holding it back as a driver for the hardware upgrade cycle.

Look up “Evidence”. I didn’t ask for your analysis.

The fact that services is their biggest growth area, carries it’s own proof that they don’t consider themselves a “box shipper”. They are also not a software or a services company. I am willing to make a bet that if you ask Apple, they will say either that they are neither, or that they are all of the above. They are an experiences company. They believe that the best user experience comes from integrating all three.

This is one of many things that make Apple unique, and as just proven by you, difficult to put in the same boxes as other companies. Most companies would use software to generate hardware business (i.e. Samsung), or use hardware to generate software/services business (i.e. Google). Either provide free software to drive up hardware value, or provide cheap hardware to drive up number of users. The reason Apple is the (or one of) most valuable company in the world, is that they managed to do both: Charge a lot of money for the hardware, AND charge that same user a lot of money for software and services to use on that hardware.

 

[cptcaveman]

Look up “Evidence”. I didn’t ask for your analysis.

The fact that services is their biggest growth area, carries it’s own proof that they don’t consider themselves a “box shipper”. They are also not a software or a services company. I am willing to make a bet that if you ask Apple, they will say either that they are neither, or that they are all of the above. They are an experiences company. They believe that the best user experience comes from integrating all three.

This is one of many things that make Apple unique, and as just proven by you, difficult to put in the same boxes as other companies. Most companies would use software to generate hardware business (i.e. Samsung), or use hardware to generate software/services business (i.e. Google). Either provide free software to drive up hardware value, or provide cheap hardware to drive up number of users. The reason Apple is the (or one of) most valuable company in the world, is that they managed to do both: Charge a lot of money for the hardware, AND charge that same user a lot of money for software and services to use on that hardware.

<audible groan>

 

[Velli]

<Audible groan>

Good talk.

Tim Cook in 2013: “Apple is not a hardware company”

Tim Cook Talks Up Apple Software And Services: "We Are Not A Hardware Company" | TechCrunch

Once upon a time, Apple was a hardware company that also maintained a software and media ecosystem since it helped drive purchases of Macs, iPods and more. But over the years, the software and services side of the business has become increasingly important, and CEO Tim Cook even went so far as...

techcrunch.com

 

[haruhiko]

Good talk.

Tim Cook in 2013: “Apple is not a hardware company”

Tim Cook Talks Up Apple Software And Services: "We Are Not A Hardware Company" | TechCrunch

Once upon a time, Apple was a hardware company that also maintained a software and media ecosystem since it helped drive purchases of Macs, iPods and more. But over the years, the software and services side of the business has become increasingly important, and CEO Tim Cook even went so far as...

techcrunch.com

Apple surely doesn’t look like a hardware company to me this year… especially with the minuscule differences between the 16PM vs. 15PM. 😂

 

[cptcaveman]

Apple surely doesn’t look like a hardware company to me this year… especially with the minuscule differences between the 16PM vs. 15PM. 😂

They are an experiences company, man! Sometimes we need to just experience having nothing!

 

[Velli]

Apple surely doesn’t look like a hardware company to me this year… especially with the minuscule differences between the 16PM vs. 15PM. 😂

In all seriousness, while we like to ridicule Apple for the incremental updates, that is a result of their focus on the overall experience, rather than just spewing out hardware for the sake of it. Look at how much tech has been invented by other companies, that has proven to be no more than fads created by the manufacturer’s need to spew out something they can say is new. Biggest ones that come to mind is actually in the TV space: Go find a 3D or curved screen TV today. They are gone, because no user asked for it. I have a feeling folding phones is going in the same direction.

Like Apple or not, more than any other tech company they create products that are actually useful for the user, rather than “throw it on the wall and see what sticks”.

 

[Velli]

They are an experiences company, man! Sometimes we need to just experience having nothing!

I apologize for taking your comments seriously.

 

[cptcaveman]

I apologize for taking your comments seriously.

Don't worry about it.

 

[Beeneeord]

Forced obsolesces is a thing. And apple is bringing this to an absurd degree.

Having an intense desire to use the latest features on an older device is not what planned obsolescence is about.

What would force you? You‘re just annoyed you can’t have it. Now.

 

[haruhiko]

In all seriousness, while we like to ridicule Apple for the incremental updates, that is a result of their focus on the overall experience, rather than just spewing out hardware for the sake of it. Look at how much tech has been invented by other companies, that has proven to be no more than fads created by the manufacturer’s need to spew out something they can say is new. Biggest ones that come to mind is actually in the TV space: Go find a 3D or curved screen TV today. They are gone, because no user asked for it. I have a feeling folding phones is going in the same direction.

Like Apple or not, more than any other tech company they create products that are actually useful for the user, rather than “throw it on the wall and see what sticks”.

Yes sure, that’s why I have no doubt staying in the Apple ecosystem. The problem (or non-problem) for me is to keep my current perfectly fine 15PM (unlike my terrible 14 Pro with really bad battery health one year in) for another year.

 

[haruhiko]

They are an experiences company, man! Sometimes we need to just experience having nothing!

Experiencing nothing is still an experience. I feel zen. Inner peace. 💆‍♂️

 

[dobrewski_77]

It's so funny to see how a bunch of Apple Advocates defend everything that Apple do, but in reality 80% of the average consumer doesn't even use them.

I'll also not upgrade my 15 Pro Max this year, as the Capture Button is just a good marketing gimmick and I don't need it. I'll still get the famous and long-waited Apple Intelligence, the processor is top, the camera is still amazing, the battery life after 300 cycles is at 91% - everything's good.

I wish everyone with older devices (13, 12 even older) to get the new phones - they're great for them!

 

[hagar]

Apple AI runs on device so I get it needs more hardware than running the ChatGTP app that relies entirely on the cloud.

But… the main reason only iPhone 15 pro gets the AI treatment is because Apple refused to put more RAM in their devices. There’s otherwise no reason older iPhones couldn’t run AI.

(Not that I care, I live in the EU and apparently no AI for me).

 

[ninecows]

Please provide your evidence that “Apple still sees itself as a hardware company”.

“People who are really serious about software should make their own hardware.” -Steve Jobs.

Apple is selling (expensive) hardware that can unlock a bunch of nice software based free-ish services.