iPhone 16 Pro Max Apple is out of their minds. This is unethical to say the least.

[seek3r]

It's so true; it makes me wonder what the unused 16-core neural processor on my (apparently non-AI) iPhone 14 Pro Max was there for

There’s a *lot* of machine learning baked into ios already that make use of it, for ex searching photos for items, people, etc. it’s not sitting idle

 

[johannnn]

This makes it even crazier that the new generation of iPhones has 8GB of RAM, when the model takes maybe 2GB and (looks at iPhone 14 Pro Max) 6GB is apparently not enough for Apple Intelligence.

This means that if Apple adjust the on-device model even slightly going forward, it's new phones all around, lads!

Maybe not strictly unethical, but cynical AF.

Unless over time Apple learns how to "compress" the LLM more. Just like the newest Llama 3.1 comes in three flavors, the 8B which you can run locally on a base model M1 MBA, the 70B, and the extreme 405B.

 

[bradman83]

Read up the thread a tiny bit. Apple seem to be setting up the current-gen iPhone buyers for exactly the same treatment next year re: memory limitations and AI.

"Oh you've only got 8GB in last year's phone? You need 12GB for AI feature X."

The next generation iPhones will most certainly get software features that only work on that model despite older models being perfectly capable of doing it. That's been Apple's standard practice for as long as the iPhone as been around. I do think that rather than locking most new AI features to specific models they'll instead bundle them into a subscription package (Apple Intelligence+ or something along those lines). Craig referring to the AI features coming this fall as a "free update" seems to set the stage for this. Apple's all about that sweet, sweet subscription revenue right now.

 

[slippery-pete]

So I am an iPhone 13 Pro Max user, and I also happen to be a HEAVY ai user.

I pay for ChatGPT and also perplexity, and have used midjourney and also Leonardo AI for image generation.

And this is why I am not buying apples BS about upgrading.

See, because I have been using these services on my three year old phone just fine, I know that there are AI features that can be run on the iPhone I have now.

I accept that some things like reading email and creating summaries take on device power, but don't you dare tell me that I need to pay you to get "all" the AI features.

To make things worse, this is the first apple event I missed.

I tuned into it, but then had a work call and missed pretty much everything iPhone related, and when I went to go look at Macrumors I saw what exactly. Typical Apple talking points rubbish:

* NEW PROCESSOR FASTEST BESTEST EVER.
* LOOK AT THE CAMERA WOW!

That is pretty much it, that and the mention of how the phone was "built for AI..." when again most of us that are actually interested in AI understand totally that we can use it on our three, four or even FIVE year old devices.

And let's talk about that launch, shall we?

I updated my M1 Pro macbook to 15 today because it was the RC, and there are ZERO ai features in this build. Not a single one.

So you expect users to pay to upgrade devices for software that is "coming soon," which can already run mostly fine on older devices now, huh?

Forced obsolesces is a thing. And apple is bringing this to an absurd degree.

Their tactics started getting really out of hand when they told users they cannot use portrait mode or noise isolation unless they are on Apple Silicon (when you can 100% do noise isolation with an app called Krisp on any processor), and it is getting way out of hand here.

I do love my apple products, but the way they are forcing upgrades is really unnerving, especially in the economy we are in where many of us decide what payment arrangement to make that much to feed out families.

Just gross.

This isn't an Apple thing, other companies do the same.

Look at GoPro. Just released 13 Hero Black with new lens modifications. Those new lenses will only work with the new Hero 13 Black and not previous models...Did the same thing with Hero 12 Black lens modifications, only worked with hero 12 black.

 

[heretiq]

So I am an iPhone 13 Pro Max user, and I also happen to be a HEAVY ai user.

I pay for ChatGPT and also perplexity, and have used midjourney and also Leonardo AI for image generation.

And this is why I am not buying apples BS about upgrading.

See, because I have been using these services on my three year old phone just fine, I know that there are AI features that can be run on the iPhone I have now.

…

I don’t get the ranting and raving. No one is forcing you to upgrade from your current device that apparently supports the “AI” capabilities you need.

Do you believe that having embedded Apple Intelligence foundation models and optimized hardware will somehow cause OpenAI and Perplexity apps to stop running on your current phone? Answer: it won’t. You are free to continue to pay OpenAI and Perplexity to provide their current and future cloud-based AI services.

However, if you prefer more private and secure local AI services, you need hardware that can support local and private cloud storage and inferencing. That requires updated compute, storage and on-device bandwidth — hence new hardware.

What is nonsensical or unethical about that? 🤔

 

[Stiksi]

You could, you know, explain why…

Do you really mean you have managed to avoid every conversation about why the currently available AI models are unethical? That is actually impressive.

Ok tl;dr, they’re built on stolen data and have resulted in a pretty apocalyptic change in the art industry. And AI also reinforces every stereotype imaginable because that’s literally how it works. You’re welcome.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

All these kids don’t remember how hard Apple tried to tell us Siri and Panoramic camera “needed” the A5 chip when it ran just fine on A4 devices through jailbreak. This isn’t new for them, and Apple Intelligence isn’t crucial for anyone yet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ see if it’s more than a gimmick in a year or two

I never heard them say Siri needed the A5 chip, I did hear them say the microphones were specifically upgraded for Siri and I do remember the jailbroken iPhone 4 having way more transcription errors. But I may just have forgotten or missed it if they ever did claim "it needs an A5 chip".

 

[Allen_Wentz]

So I am an iPhone 13 Pro Max user, and I also happen to be a HEAVY ai user.

I pay for ChatGPT and also perplexity, and have used midjourney and also Leonardo AI for image generation.

And this is why I am not buying apples BS about upgrading.

See, because I have been using these services on my three year old phone just fine, I know that there are AI features that can be run on the iPhone I have now.

I accept that some things like reading email and creating summaries take on device power, but don't you dare tell me that I need to pay you to get "all" the AI features.

To make things worse, this is the first apple event I missed.

I tuned into it, but then had a work call and missed pretty much everything iPhone related, and when I went to go look at Macrumors I saw what exactly. Typical Apple talking points rubbish:

* NEW PROCESSOR FASTEST BESTEST EVER.
* LOOK AT THE CAMERA WOW!

That is pretty much it, that and the mention of how the phone was "built for AI..." when again most of us that are actually interested in AI understand totally that we can use it on our three, four or even FIVE year old devices.

And let's talk about that launch, shall we?

I updated my M1 Pro macbook to 15 today because it was the RC, and there are ZERO ai features in this build. Not a single one.

So you expect users to pay to upgrade devices for software that is "coming soon," which can already run mostly fine on older devices now, huh?

Forced obsolesces is a thing. And apple is bringing this to an absurd degree.

Their tactics started getting really out of hand when they told users they cannot use portrait mode or noise isolation unless they are on Apple Silicon (when you can 100% do noise isolation with an app called Krisp on any processor), and it is getting way out of hand here.

I do love my apple products, but the way they are forcing upgrades is really unnerving, especially in the economy we are in where many of us decide what payment arrangement to make that much to feed out families.

Just gross.

Why the rant? Sorry but I see nothing "Just gross." Anyone happy with 3yo phone performance can just skip this generation. Seems obvious to me.

Others like me shooting >10k images per year for work purposes may [or may not] find what you consider small iP16 Pro improvements well worth the annual upgrade. YMMV, by definition.

 

[hch720]

True but I’d happily take the better battery life of the 16 if I was upgrading.

Even after a year with my 15PM my battery health is still at 100% so I should be good for another year

 

[Parowdy]

From my 15 pro max, I don’t see a reason to upgrade. Previously, every year has had something compelling. But the capture button seems like a total gimmick, and that’s the only upgrade for this year

The X to the XS?

 

[Flowstates]

The X to the XS?

12 - 13

 

[cptcaveman]

I do think that rather than locking most new AI features to specific models they'll instead bundle them into a subscription package (Apple Intelligence+ or something along those lines). Craig referring to the AI features coming this fall as a "free update" seems to set the stage for this. Apple's all about that sweet, sweet subscription revenue right now.

Apple should include an AI subscription in Apple One as soon as possible.

Withholding AI to boost iPhone 16 sales is short-sighted, as it limits access to AI features at a crucial time for consumer adoption. A long-term software subscription offers more value than a single hardware sale, and if customers can't access Apple's AI, they'll turn to alternatives like Google Gemini or ChatGPT. This could hurt Apple's AI adoption strategy in the long run.

 

[heretiq]

I already assume Apple‘s claim on “privacy” is only to protect their user base data from the likes of Google facebook etc, NOT to protect user. Apple is protecting their own privacy. Yet, we have millions choose to believe Apple cares about privacy. Regardless, now I start to realise why people choose to believe so, even if what Apple is doing is exactly the opposite of what they say.

Seriously? Then why do you (presumably) continue to use Apple products?

 

[Shirasaki]

Seriously? Then why do you (presumably) continue to use Apple products?

Because only Apple products can be used worldwide, more or less, unlIke Google android which is unavailable in a few countries. Plus I am not comfortable with third party android OS.

 

[cptcaveman]

Using the cloud does not equate loss of privacy. Really, your point about those apps you use misses what Apple tries to achieve.

Of course cloud is less secure than on-device. But Apple (and everyone else) has to do it anyway. You aren't going to run a 700GB model on an iPhone, lol.

I have no problem with this.

Despite what people think they know, even relatively simple stuff in Apple Intelligence like text summarization is already running in the cloud by default.

Don't believe me? Take a look:

One potential takeaway from this is that the 8GB Apple Intelligence "minimum spec" for those features is a total furphy designed only to drive sales of the iPhone 16.

 

[heretiq]

Because only Apple products can be used worldwide, more or less, unlIke Google android which is unavailable in a few countries. Plus I am not comfortable with third party android OS.

Interesting. I was under the impression that Android was available in more countries than iOS due to the sheer number of manufacturers producing Android devices. If you don’t mind me asking, do you consider non-Google products as third-party Android devices? And what is it that you’re not comfortable with when it comes to third-party Android devices?

 

[TechnoMonk]

Read up the thread a tiny bit. Apple seem to be setting up the current-gen iPhone buyers for exactly the same treatment next year re: memory limitations and AI.

"Oh you've only got 8GB in last year's phone? You need 12GB for AI feature X."

That’s how technology evolves. Some features will need more resources. I use a 13 PM and an M1 IPad Pro. I am not in a rush to upgrade but I can see how certain features may be omitted. It’s fools gold rush and never ending chase. When I upgrade to iPhone 19 it will do lot more but in few years iPhone 22 will have evolved.

 

[boss.king]

Read up the thread a tiny bit. Apple seem to be setting up the current-gen iPhone buyers for exactly the same treatment next year re: memory limitations and AI.

"Oh you've only got 8GB in last year's phone? You need 12GB for AI feature X."

Is this not what they do literally every year? There are always some feature that are exclusive to new models, whether the reasons are hardware-based or artificial. No one should be expecting to buy a device and get 100% of all new features for the lifetime of their device, that’s not how it’s ever worked.

 

[cptcaveman]

Is this not what they do literally every year? There are always some feature that are exclusive to new models, whether the reasons are hardware-based or artificial. No one should be expecting to buy a device and get 100% of all new features for the lifetime of their device, that’s not how it’s ever worked.

Yeah, I don't know, man. Three-year-old phones, and I might agree with you. But using poverty memory specs as a wedge to drive phone upgrades the very next year? Seems a little tricky to me.

 

[Shirasaki]

Interesting. I was under the impression that Android was available in more countries than iOS due to the sheer number of manufacturers producing Android devices. If you don’t mind me asking, do you consider non-Google products as third-party Android devices? And what is it that you’re not comfortable with when it comes to third-party Android devices?

To me, any products loaded with android but can’t/won‘t support google services are considered “third party android devices”, so it’s more of an OS thing than manufacturer. Obviously, Google devices would be best, but as I said before, not all countries allow Google android to be used.

Apple more or less controls everything, from hardware to software. I know EU thing and alternative App Store but it’s still iOS in essence. On the contrary, android has the open source flavour, and manufacturers and even countries can install untold type of software to your phone and/or impose severe restrictions on how you use your device, such as dictating exactly what app you can install (White list). To me that’s just way too much of a control to be comfortable with, plus the lost possibility of using such devices worldwide.

 

[cptcaveman]

To me, any products loaded with android but can’t/won‘t support google services are considered “third party android devices”, so it’s more of an OS thing than manufacturer. Obviously, Google devices would be best, but as I said before, not all countries allow Google android to be used.

Apple more or less controls everything, from hardware to software. I know EU thing and alternative App Store but it’s still iOS in essence. On the contrary, android has the open source flavour, and manufacturers and even countries can install untold type of software to your phone and/or impose severe restrictions on how you use your device, such as dictating exactly what app you can install (White list). To me that’s just way too much of a control to be comfortable with, plus the lost possibility of using such devices worldwide.

I trust Apple with my data far more than an advertising company like Google.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

From my 15 pro max, I don’t see a reason to upgrade. Previously, every year has had something compelling. But the capture button seems like a total gimmick, and that’s the only upgrade for this year

Currently smartphone camera ergonomics totally suck, and efforts to improve camera ergonomics should not be denigrated. The capture button is definitely not a total gimmick. Whether it is worth upgrading for is an individual decision.

 

[boss.king]

Yeah, I don't know, man. Three-year-old phones, and I might agree with you. But using poverty memory specs as a wedge to drive phone upgrades the very next year? Seems a little tricky to me.

I mean, you're also just speculating, you don't actually know whether they have enough RAM for next year's features or not. 8GB might be fine for a few years depending on how much they can shrink their models or offload requests as they bring the cloud stuff online.

 

[macfacts]

What is different is ALL of the AI processing is done on the phone locally, which protects your privacy and requires dedicated AI hardware in the processor. Only when it needs ChatGPT to help the local processing will it do so, and ask your permission first.

Why not skip the middleman and go straight to chatGPT? They aren't going to get your "private dick pics" or your tax returns. The only information they are getting are what you enter in the web browser. $1000 saved.

 

[Shirasaki]

I trust Apple with my data far more than an advertising company like Google.

I don’t trust my data on anyone, including Apple. It’s just that there is no chance to completely detach my data from megacorps like Apple and Google. All I can do is try to strike a balance.