Other Apple is slowing down older iPhones based on battery wear level [MERGED]

[boltjames]

By blaming the users for not holding the phone correctly Jobs wasn't trying to deflect from the issue and blame the users in the process? Is there another bridge that you can try to sell to all of us?

People were holding the phone wrong because holding it that way interferes with signal strength.

Next time you’re driving 60 MPH on the highway, take your steering wheel and jerk it abruptly half a rotation to the right. Wait. You hit a pole and died. That’s your car manufacturers fault I guess.

 

[Hal~9000]

People were holding the phone wrong because holding it that way interferes with signal strength.

Next time you’re driving 60 MPH on the highway, take your steering wheel and jerk it abruptly half a rotation to the right. Wait. You hit a pole and died. That’s your car manufacturers fault I guess.

Anyone else have the same expression lately whenever they read one of BJ's posts?

First it's the 6s is somehow 3+ years old, then it's people who jailbreak can somehow over clock their device, now it's the consumers fault for holding a phone wrong when its really a hardware defect. Simply bizarre stuff

I mean heck... even C DM, who was in the trenches with you fighting tooth-n-nail against anyone and everyone that wouldn't let the throttling issue go, is now turning against you for your posts which are either A) an obvious attempt to distract against the real topic of the thread or B) are simply not true. That should tell you all you need to know right there.

Meanwhile my iPhone 6s Plus (which is 2 years old now) is running iOS 9.3.3 with 6% battery wear on coconut battery. I'm just like "This is why I don't update my crap."!

So lucky!

I wish I could go back to iOS 9. Had a chance the other day when Apple allowed downgrades but I was at work and by the time I got off Apple had already shut it down

 

[nicksti]

People were holding the phone wrong because holding it that way interferes with signal strength.

Next time you’re driving 60 MPH on the highway, take your steering wheel and jerk it abruptly half a rotation to the right. Wait. You hit a pole and died. That’s your car manufacturers fault I guess.

The force is strong within you.

 

[I7guy]

Those involved in a scandal and have a guilty conscience never come forward for scrutiny. When we have governments investigating Apple for planned obsolescence that's a new low for Apple since the company incorporated.

Government investigate companies all of the time. Tim’s been quiet because there is no scandal, no planned obsolescence. What is he supposed to do, come forward and say contrary to done random internet posters opinion on MacRumors, Apple doesn’t believe in crippling peoples phones to stimulate sales (aka planned obsolescence.)?

I’m not trying to change your opinion, you believe scandal and planned obsolescence. I don’t, still waiting for proof. (Proof would be a recorded conversation in the boardroom by a manager nefariously planning this out.)

 

[boltjames]

Government investigate companies all of the time. Tim’s been quiet because there is no scandal, no planned obsolescence. What is he supposed to do, come forward and say contrary to done random internet posters opinion on MacRumors, Apple doesn’t believe in crippling peoples phones to stimulate sales (aka planned obsolescence.)?

I’m not trying to change your opinion, you believe scandal and planned obsolescence. I don’t, still waiting for proof. (Proof would be a recorded conversation in the boardroom by a manager nefariously planning this out.)

In all the years I've been frequenting Apple stores and for the scores of products I've bought from them, I have never, ever gotten the 'hard sell' treatment. Never. Not once. They're not Best Buy. They're not the hair extension kiosk in the mall.

This whole phony conspiracy revolves around a simple narrative that isn't true:

"Apple throttled phones to increase sales!"

Well, if Apple wanted to increase sales the proper strategy would have been to let the batteries die out slowly like any consumer electronic product will do and encourage random shutdowns. Only tweakers in forums care about geekbench scores. Hundreds of millions of people just want a phone that lasts all day and they care about shortened battery life and random shutdowns.

 

[Hal~9000]

Yeah baby! Keep pouring it on guys

More US lawmakers demand Tim Cook answer questions on iPhone slowdown & exploding batteries

 

[boltjames]

Yeah baby! Keep pouring it on guys

More US lawmakers demand Tim Cook answer questions on iPhone slowdown & exploding batteries

Sticks to his iPhone 8 and returns to his iPhone 6 because the 8 is too expensive.

Roots for the government to litigate against Apple which will lead them to raise prices.

Genius.

 

[C DM]

People were holding the phone wrong because holding it that way interferes with signal strength.

Next time you’re driving 60 MPH on the highway, take your steering wheel and jerk it abruptly half a rotation to the right. Wait. You hit a pole and died. That’s your car manufacturers fault I guess.

The car analogies are often poor, but this one is so bad it's just mind boggling.

 

[boltjames]

The car analogies are often poor, but this one is so bad it's just mind boggling.

If you use a product in a way that is a) against what the designers intended and b) knowingly going to cause functional problems, that's on the user, not the manufacturer.

Antennagate is perfect proof of this. There were no massive returns, no outcry of dropped calls, iPhone 4 broke all sales records at the time. YouTubers looking for clickthru revenue created a phony controversy and made a few hundred dollars each. That's all that was accomplished.

You could name a dozen products in your line of sight that wouldn't function properly if they were used incorrectly. Put your finger over the LED on the bottom of your mouse and try to use it. Leave the freezer door open and try to make ice. Hard-over your steering wheel on a highway and try not to crash. Block the antenna gap on an iPhone 4 and watch your bars go down.

 

[d123]

Defective iPhone's: The consumer electronics industry runs at a 5% defective rate meaning that 5% of all iPhone's out there have a defect, some of which could impact batery life. 5% of 94 MILLION iPhone's sold in the last 2 years is 4.7 MILLION iPhone's that are defective.

Jailbroken iPhone's: One of the first things jailbreakers do is enhance speed by overclocking and as such overtax the processor. This, in turn, can prematurely weaken the battery. This is the reason why Apple warns against the practice of jailbreaking per their bulletins on the issue.

Those two points are not drivel. They are fact.

No, they are indisputably drivel.

I suspect you wouldn’t even know a fact if it smacked you in the face, Jimmy...

 

[C DM]

If you use a product in a way that is a) against what the designers intended and b) knowingly going to cause functional problems, that's on the user, not the manufacturer.

Antennagate is perfect proof of this. There were no massive returns, no outcry of dropped calls, iPhone 4 broke all sales records at the time. YouTubers looking for clickthru revenue created a phony controversy and made a few hundred dollars each. That's all that was accomplished.

You could name a dozen products in your line of sight that wouldn't function properly if they were used incorrectly. Put your finger over the LED on the bottom of your mouse and try to use it. Leave the freezer door open and try to make ice. Hard-over your steering wheel on a highway and try not to crash. Block the antenna gap on an iPhone 4 and watch your bars go down.

All that just underscores the mind boggling part.

 

[trifid]

If you use a product in a way that is a) against what the designers intended and b) knowingly going to cause functional problems, that's on the user, not the manufacturer.

Antennagate is perfect proof of this. There were no massive returns, no outcry of dropped calls, iPhone 4 broke all sales records at the time. YouTubers looking for clickthru revenue created a phony controversy and made a few hundred dollars each. That's all that was accomplished.

You could name a dozen products in your line of sight that wouldn't function properly if they were used incorrectly. Put your finger over the LED on the bottom of your mouse and try to use it. Leave the freezer door open and try to make ice. Hard-over your steering wheel on a highway and try not to crash. Block the antenna gap on an iPhone 4 and watch your bars go down.

Your narrative breaks down when faced with certain facts though, back in 2016 Apple did launch a free of charge "limited" battery replacement program for the 6s due to shut downs, which shows that there was a hardware defect that was Apple's fault and they were issuing free replacements. It wasn't the user's fault like you keep suggesting.

Something happened after that where Apple realized the issue extended to more phones and they probably panicked because of the implications of having to replace millions of more batteries for free, hence they decided to throttle phones and cover up the defect.

Hence one of the lawsuits is targeting this cover up, Third iPhone battery lawsuit says Apple used slowdowns to avoid fixing defects.

Lastly, Apple has been making iPhones for 10 years, why the throttling now? There are people saying 5s and 5 also shut down but Apple says those devices aren't affected. Fishy, no? And why do other manufacturers not have this issue? And how do you explain better battery technology exists which Apple is not using?

 

[boltjames]

Your narrative breaks down when faced with certain facts though, back in 2016 Apple did launch a free of charge "limited" battery replacement program for the 6s due to shut downs, which shows that there was a hardware defect that was Apple's fault and they were issuing free replacements. It wasn't the user's fault like you keep suggesting.

That's something completely different. Sometimes manufacturers make legitimate mistakes such as your example. Antennagate was nothing like that. Antennagate was nothing 'defective' other than some YouTuber's who were looking to make a buck, not much different than this phony throttle situation where people who can't afford new iPhone's are looking for a handout. And even after they got their $50 piece of flesh, no, not enough. Just a terrible way to treat Apple.

Lastly, Apple has been making iPhones for 10 years, why the throttling now? There are people saying 5s and 5 also shut down but Apple says those devices aren't affected. Fishy, no? And why do other manufacturers not have this issue? And how do you explain better battery technology exists which Apple is not using?

I'm not an engineer on the Apple battery team, but the iPhone 6 was incredibly thin and light and clearly required a small and thin battery. My iPhone 6 was terrific under iOS 8 and iOS 9 but like every other iPhone ever created by the time you get to iOS release #3 past the iOS the phone was originally designed for the advances in features in the OS and processors in the new hardware overtax the older handset. It's not planned obsolescence. It's expected obsolescence. That's why there isn't much realworld outrage over this Geekbench publicity stunt. Anyone who has owned a smartphone for more than 2 years knows it's going to be slow and old.

 

[d123]

My iPhone 6 was terrific under iOS 8 and iOS 9 but like every other iPhone ever created by the time you get to iOS release #3 past the iOS the phone was originally designed for the advances in features in the OS and processors in the new hardware overtax the older handset. It's not planned obsolescence. It's expected obsolescence.

No, it’s not, Jimmy. An iPhone 6 with a new battery fitted works pretty well on iOS 11, just like it did on iOS 9. It was always a little slower than the 6s, don’t you remember Timmy saying the 6s was XX times faster than the 6 at the launch event for the 6s?

 

[boltjames]

No, it’s not, Jimmy. An iPhone 6 with a new battery fitted works pretty well on iOS 11, just like it did on iOS 9. It was always a little slower than the 6s, don’t you remember Timmy saying the 6s was XX times faster than the 6 at the launch event for the 6s?

"Pretty well" apparently isn't good enough for those who spend more time looking at geekbench tests than they do communicating with real people.

Core iPhone owners are into a brand new iPhone long before they need a replacement battery. That's the realm of the Craigslist crowd.

 

[aKansasKid]

Visited with my son-in-law today about the iPhone battery issue. He's a professor of electrical engineering at a large state university.

My understanding of his explanation (any errors are mine) is that while the iPhone lithium-ion battery specs at a nominal 3.8 volts output, it is subject to Ohm's Law, in that its internal resistance causes a voltage drop proportional to the resistance. As the battery discharges, the internal resistance increases, reducing output voltage. The iPhone circuitry is shutting off the phone when the output voltage falls below a nominal value, as any phone would do.

As the battery ages (increased number of charge cycles), the internal resistance builds faster during discharge than it did when new, so the voltage drops to that minimum nominal value sooner. (So the phone shuts down sooner with an older battery.) But not only does that older battery drop to its nominal minimum voltage sooner, the fall-off curve is steeper than it would be for a new battery. Hence, while the battery output voltage for an older battery may show, let's say, 2.8 volts at 30% battery remaining, that voltage may be dropping so fast that it reaches the threshhold quickly afterwards and shuts down, whereas a new battery would continue to decay past that 30%/2.8 volts more gracefully.

The problem can be solved with:
1) more frequent battery changes, or
2) a battery with a slower internal resistance build-up, or
3) a battery that takes more charge cycles before the sharp voltage declines begin, or
4) phone circuitry that requires less voltage before shutting down or that demands less current overall, or
5) slowing the phone down so the battery take longer to discharge.

It appears Apple took option 5) in iOS 10.2.1, since the other options entail replacing the battery or redesigning the phone. Going forward, until Apple and its battery suppliers can resolve options 2, 3, and/or 4, users will be left with periodic battery changes (1), or run the risk of (5) software throttling.

On a related note, his iPhone 6s was one of the recalled phones, so he had his battery replaced six months ago under the recall program. This new battery is already causing shutdowns at 30% or more remaining. Says he's not buying another iPhone until Apple either changes battery suppliers or the specs the suppliers build to.

 

[Act3]

Sticks to his iPhone 8 and returns to his iPhone 6 because the 8 is too expensive.

Roots for the government to litigate against Apple which will lead them to raise prices.

Genius.

Apple raises prices without the help from Uncle Sam

Who are you trying to kid?
[doublepost=1515896309][/doublepost]

Visited with my son-in-law today about the iPhone battery issue. He's a professor of electrical engineering at a large state university.

My understanding of his explanation (any errors are mine) is that while the iPhone lithium-ion battery specs at a nominal 3.8 volts output, it is subject to Ohm's Law, in that its internal resistance causes a voltage drop proportional to the resistance. As the battery discharges, the internal resistance increases, reducing output voltage. The iPhone circuitry is shutting off the phone when the output voltage falls below a nominal value, as any phone would do.

As the battery ages (increased number of charge cycles), the internal resistance builds faster during discharge than it did when new, so the voltage drops to that minimum nominal value sooner. (So the phone shuts down sooner with an older battery.) But not only does that older battery drop to its nominal minimum voltage sooner, the fall-off curve is steeper than it would be for a new battery. Hence, while the battery output voltage for an older battery may show, let's say, 2.8 volts at 30% battery remaining, that voltage may be dropping so fast that it reaches the threshhold quickly afterwards and shuts down, whereas a new battery would continue to decay past that 30%/2.8 volts more gracefully.

The problem can be solved with:
1) more frequent battery changes, or
2) a battery with a slower internal resistance build-up, or
3) a battery that takes more charge cycles before the sharp voltage declines begin, or
4) phone circuitry that requires less voltage before shutting down or that demands less current overall, or
5) slowing the phone down so the battery take longer to discharge.

It appears Apple took option 5) in iOS 10.2.1, since the other options entail replacing the battery or redesigning the phone. Going forward, until Apple and its battery suppliers can resolve options 2, 3, and/or 4, users will be left with periodic battery changes (1), or run the risk of (5) software throttling.

On a related note, his iPhone 6s was one of the recalled phones, so he had his battery replaced six months ago under the recall program. This new battery is already causing shutdowns at 30% or more remaining. Says he's not buying another iPhone until Apple either changes battery suppliers or the specs the suppliers build to.

I agree fully with what your son in law stated. A fix would be a battery with lower internal resistance to start with, i.e. a larger battery or sort of option #2. Lower resistance to start with would result in lower voltage drop over time as internal battery resistance built up. However Apple has went with thinner is better and it bit their ass. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in court if it makes it there. I'm sure there will be some head butting on who knows their battery and basic electrical theory.

[doublepost=1515896530][/doublepost]

No, it’s not, Jimmy. An iPhone 6 with a new battery fitted works pretty well on iOS 11, just like it did on iOS 9. It was always a little slower than the 6s, don’t you remember Timmy saying the 6s was XX times faster than the 6 at the launch event for the 6s?

I agree and stating that Tim didn't mention battery health when he stated that did he? lol

 

[nicksti]

Visited with my son-in-law today about the iPhone battery issue. He's a professor of electrical engineering at a large state university.

The problem can be solved with:
1) more frequent battery changes, or
2) a battery with a slower internal resistance build-up, or
3) a battery that takes more charge cycles before the sharp voltage declines begin, or
4) phone circuitry that requires less voltage before shutting down or that demands less current overall, or
5) slowing the phone down so the battery take longer to discharge.

Why isn't Apple throttling iPhone 8 and X phones no matter what the battery wear level is?

 

[Bigg Macc]

What about essentially blaming the users for the poor antenna design? Was that intentional? Was that good leadership from the front?

Good call. Steve Jobs was slow wrong on that too.

 

[Act3]

Why isn't Apple throttling iPhone 8 and X phones no matter what the battery wear level is?

Hard to tell. Maybe those batteries are better ? Then again those phones are only a few months old.

 

[aKansasKid]

Why isn't Apple throttling iPhone 8 and X phones no matter what the battery wear level is?

Could be for any one or more of a few reasons:
1) Higher quality batteries spec'd after the 6s debacle that finally made the pipeline this year; or
2) No need yet as the 8/X batteries are still fresh and wouldn't hit the "80%" threshold for a while; or
3) Apple wanting to avoid ANY chance of bad press with some errant 8 or X phones being throttled; or
4) Waiting for another iOS release to see how the 8/X batteries age so they know what and when to throttle before writing code to so so.

And those are just some possibilities that come to mind. Only Apple can tell you why, for sure. Though they did promise it could be implemented for "other models" in future iOS updates, so they have not ruled it out by any stretch.

 

[nicksti]

Could be for any one or more of a few reasons:
1) Higher quality batteries spec'd after the 6s debacle that finally made the pipeline this year; or
2) No need yet as the 8/X batteries are still fresh and wouldn't hit the "80%" threshold for a while; or
3) Apple wanting to avoid ANY chance of bad press with some errant 8 or X phones being throttled; or
4) Waiting for another iOS release to see how the 8/X batteries age so they know what and when to throttle before writing code to so so.

And those are just some possibilities that come to mind. Only Apple can tell you why, for sure. Though they did promise it could be implemented for "other models" in future iOS updates, so they have not ruled it out by any stretch.

From Apple's website:

"About a year ago in iOS 10.2.1, we delivered a software update that improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone SE."

Why not any iPhones before the 6?
Why are the prior gen iphones getting included right when the new iPhone has launched?

I do wonder what Apple will do next year. Do they have no choice but to throttle the 8 so that they look consistent? On the flip side that would poke all sorts of holes in the defense that they are not throttling the 8 due to superior battery tech.

 

[boltjames]

Why isn't Apple throttling iPhone 8 and X phones no matter what the battery wear level is?

Newer phones, newer processors, and new batteries all running an iOS version optimized for it at launch.

 

[trifid]

Hard to tell. Maybe those batteries are better ? Then again those phones are only a few months old.

There isn't a new iPhone for customers to buy yet... I'm sure when iPhone 11 is out, Apple will trigger the slowness switch on iPhone X to ensure smooth battery operation of course

 

[d123]

I agree and stating that Tim didn't mention battery health when he stated that did he? lol

Maybe we all dozed off and missed it as they quickly read out a battery health disclaimer