Apple Jumps 13 Spots in Glassdoor's Annual List of Best Places to Work, But Remains Far Behind Facebook and Google

Discussion in 'MacRumors.com News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Dec 5, 2018.

  1. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #76
    The opposite is true. Businesses are responsible for the race to the bottom, buying the cheapest Windows boxes they can get for their underpaid employees. Only when people buy computers for themselves, they begin to value user experience more than price.

    Windows PCs are all essentially the same, even the $1000+ ones have razor thin profit margins. Software developers need to write code with the average PC hardware in mind. You can’t assume a joystick, so most PC games are controlled with mouse and keyboard.

    Only Microsoft (Windows 8) and Intel (Ultrabooks) are powerful enough to force innovation within this ecosystem. Usually only after they’ve seen Apples flawless implementation (iPad, MacBook Air). OEMs are unable to differentiate from competitors and make a profit.

    The value of the OS X monopoly

    With the Mac the story is that Apple’s OS X is primarily responsible for delivering quadruple hardware margins vis-a-vis the most successful PC vendor.
    — Horace Dediu
    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    In the advertising world.
    No, I just think that’s not an impressive new technology, but a network effect of the available data. If you could make everyone in your area tell you who they are and what they like, you could start selling the same kind of ads without licensing any tech from Facebook. The art is in keeping people on the site and annoy them with ads and privacy scandals just enough without making them leave and delete their data.

    Social engineering, in the context of information security, refers to psychological manipulation of people into performing actions or divulging confidential information.

    There is (criminal) value in this skill, but I don’t consider it a technology.
     
  2. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #77
    Certainly how some might see it, not quite how most see it.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    What shows that that opposite is true, that macOS has over a 90% share when it comes to $1000+ computers in business?
     
  3. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #78
  4. Stella, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #79
  5. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #80
  6. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #81
    And in the meantime the PC market began to shrink rapidly while Mac sales stayed stable at increased prices. Can you guess what that means for Apples profit share?
     
  7. Stella, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #82
    That article in 2018 is totally and utterly meaningless. First off, its way out of date, the PC landscape has changed considerably in 9 years. Secondly, right at the bottom of the article - it quite clearly states:

    "It should be noted, however, that these numbers are for retail—not for business purchases or PCs people built themselves."

    Yet, quite unbelievably, you still try and back up that article, when its statistics only show a subset of > $1000 PC purchases!!! ( from 9 years ago )

    This sub thread started because you refused to acknowledge that Facebook is a Tech company.

     
  8. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #83
    Nobody has numbers for DIY PCs, because individuals don’t report on whether they buy a component to build a new or upgrade an existing PC. But this market is also believed to shrink rapidly.
     
  9. sw1tcher macrumors 65816

    sw1tcher

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    #84
    SMH. Old outdated articles.

    And none that I can see that shows that

    A) macOS has an over 90% market share for $1,000+ computers,

    and/or

    B) on which Apple makes more profit than all Windows OEMs combined

    PC sales have actually been growing again since late 2017/early 2018.

    https://www.engadget.com/2018/01/12/pc-market-grew-in-q4-2017/

    driven mainly by business PC upgrades

    https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/13/17567760/pc-sales-growth-idc-gartner-july-2018


    And Apple computer sales have been on the decline this year.

    > https://www.patentlyapple.com/paten...ve-to-underperform-the-market-in-q3-2018.html

    In April Patently Apple reported on PC sales and Apple was shown to be in the cellar's fifth position with Growth being non-existent and in fact down by close to 5%. Today IDC posted their PC statistical chart for Q3 and we're able to see that Apple is once again in the cellar position with even a higher negative growth factor of -11.6%. The industry as a whole was down 0.9%.

    For the USA market, IDC reports that "The U.S. PC market had yet another growth quarter with a total of 17.2 million units shipped. The boost in PC volume was a result of growing demand for notebook PCs in the enterprise segment and increasing popularity of gaming systems that supported the consumer segment."

    In respect to Apple, IDC added that "Apple finished the quarter in 5th place, declined over 11%, and was the only top 5 company to underperform the overall market."



    > https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-are-pcs-sales-growing-while-mac-sales-are-crashing/

    For the first time in six years, PC sales are showing clear signs of growth. But the Mac just had its worst quarter in seven years.

    While they differ on methodologies, both Gartner and IDC agree that the PC market is growing, claiming 1.4 and 2.7 percent growth respectively. But the Mac just had a bad quarter.

    A really bad quarter. One that amounted to a 13 percent unit shipment decline year-on-year. Shipments are now at a level not seen since Q3 2010.
     
  10. C DM, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #85
    Probably doesn't really need to be said, given the obviousness of it all here, but the focus has really been on the business side of things.
     
  11. sw1tcher macrumors 65816

    sw1tcher

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    #86
    And when I pointed out that Facebook actually does make hardware (Oculus and Portal) which Gudi felt was a requirement to be a tech company, he moves the goal post by dismissing them as "niche products."

    And when I also pointed out how Facebook sells networking equipment they created, he stays silent and shifts the conversation to $1,000+ computers and market share which he tries to support with old out-dated articles.

    LOL
     
  12. Gudi, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #87
    You act as if that’s an undisputed fact which needs no proof cause every ***** already believes it. Nothing is true until proven.
    So what? Instead of outdated data you want to mislead us with current data. There is no doubt that Apple creates plenty of innovative technologies which are unique to their platform and allow them to charge a premium and earn the highest profit margins of the entire industry.

    Show me the technology that drives Facebook? From a users point of view it’s an ordinary website. The only hindrance for competition is that you can’t make your entire circle of friends switch to an competitor and reenter all their data again.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    Stop lying! I never said something about hardware as an requirement. In fact software is the requirement to make a contribution in information technology. Oculus and VR in general are failing, because of a lack in software and content.

    VR is in a tailspin, and the sales numbers prove it
    No, I shifted the conversation to Xerox PARC, who created all these amazing technologies and failed to turn them into products. As far as I know Facebook hasn’t become a Ciscokiller yet. And they’re also not a VR company yet. These are all dreams of a future that might never come. Apple transformed itself from the Mac company to the iPod company to the iPhone company.

    Facebook is still Facebook. They use information technology to build their advertising business, but they don’t successfully create IT products.
     
  13. Stella, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #88
    I posted one definition of what a "Tech Company" is already. If you don't consider Facebook a tech company then that's up to you. Simple as that.

    I consider (and not limited to ) these other companies to be "Tech companies":
    Twitter, Uber, Shopify,Netflix, Ebay, Airbnb, Adobe, LinkedIn, and my current employer ( who provides a web based service and integration APIs to it's customers, and does not sell it's own software ).

    Also, I believe the Earth is a globe and not flat.


    Others have given you examples of the technology that drives Facebook. You choose to ignore them.
    "An ordinary website". Does not reflect the complexity and range of technology that is used to drive Facebook's business.

    You implied it, here:

     
  14. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #89
    Tech is not limited to just creating IT products. Perhaps some particular limited and/dated definition that someone might choose would have it laid out that way, but that isn't how tech seen in the world overall (at least certainly not for some time now).
     
  15. Stella, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #90
    100%.


    I'm finding this thread to be quite bizarre, and gets more bizarre as Gudi posts more.

    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    WTF? Really?

    What do you think Facebook is ( a platform - or what you describe cutely as a 'website' ), if its not an IT product that has a user base of over 2 billion that helped Facebook company to generate $4 billion profit in 2017?
     
  16. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #91
    Using technology (including those you created yourself for your own use) isn’t the same as being a tech company. Every restaurant, hotel and hairdresser uses IT.
    It’s just scaled up to serve millions of users.
    I deleted a paragraph about Adobe, because I thought software companies being IT companies wasn’t a point worth to make.
     
  17. Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #92
    You really are entertaining. Loving this thread.

    LMAO at your responses below, which are comparing apple vs oranges, or totally out of context.

     
  18. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #93
    Yes it is. Otherwise every company would be a tech company and the distinction is useless. There are millions of lines of code and dozens of ARM processors in every car. Most of it is mechatronic without any user interface like Airbag and ABS. At most the driver can switch the system on and off. Why isn’t BMW on that list, if any kind of technology could make a tech company? Chemical and Pharma companies work with computers. Every kid doing their homework uses computers.
     
  19. Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #94
    Gudi, you have a lack of understanding of what a "Tech company" is.


     
  20. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #95
    Facebook is an advertising company. Like every product today it is created with the use of lots of IT. Airbus creates a profit of €4.3bn and uses tons of data to build planes. 3 billion people fly every year. Hypertext was created so that a few dozen particle physicist at CERN could better communicate with each other. The usage of IT is everywhere, its creation for others to use is not.
     
  21. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #96
    So all the software, infrastructure, AI, etc. that Facebook used to create, update, modify, and add on to its service has already existed somewhere and they simply took it all and just used it?
     
  22. Stella, Dec 6, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018

    Stella macrumors G3

    Stella

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    #97
    LOL. Out of context response.

    Your response below:


    Was a reply refuting your claim that Facebook "don't successsfully create IT products" here:

    --- Post Merged, Dec 6, 2018 ---
    Refuting:

    So, do you think Facebook still haven't created a "successful IT Product"?
     
  23. Gudi macrumors 68030

    Gudi

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    #98
    Every company creates infrastructure, technology and workflows for itself. What Facebook creates as a service for others is advertising.
     
  24. C DM macrumors Sandy Bridge

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    #99
    And as service for users that use it?
     
  25. sw1tcher macrumors 65816

    sw1tcher

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    #100
    *facepalm*

    Current data is more pertinent than 10 year old data. Particularly data that excludes business PC sales.

    No one is disputing this. But this doesn't mean that

    A) macOS has an over 90% market share for $1,000+ computers

    and

    B) on which Apple makes more profit than all Windows OEMs combined


    I already did. Multiple times. Can't help you if you choose to ignore the facts.

    Like you, these people are clueless.

    Yes, you did. You said Facebook isn't a tech company because they don't build any tech like "computers or hardware of any kind". . . right here:

    As for the part about them not building "an operating system," they built the system that powers Facebook.

    So now the requirement to be a tech company is software? Moving the goal post again, I see. Fine. So, who do you think created the software that powers Facebook?

    Answer: Facebook

    Facebook, the users, and the ad platform are the product.

    But maybe you're right about them not being successful. Facebook only managed to grow their revenue of $153 million in 2007 to a paltry $40.7 billion in 2017, and where net income during the same period went from a loss of $138 million to a profit of $15.934 billion.

    Revenue growth of 2,560% is pathetic.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/277229/facebooks-annual-revenue-and-net-income/
     

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