Apple Knew About Bendgate and Touch Disease iPhone 6 Issues Months in Advance of Repair Programs

[shadowmatt]

What that? Another product designed by Apple with a manufacturing defect they they first deny, then blame on the customer and then eventually, after charging people to repair their mistake, own up?

Nearly every single product Apple has designed since the beige G3's have had an inherent manufacturing defect which shortens the life of the product.

Apple do not test their devices. The nice videos are just PR.

Look at the iPhone 3Gs with its plastic body that cracked around the headphone slot and the volume buttons. If they really tested that phone it would have become apparent very quickly.

Bendgate became apparent as soon as people bought the phone and it started bending. That means Apple didn't test that phone properly. It wasn't something that required any type of weird situation to arise, just normal use.

 

[sracer]

What a careless, unnuanced, click-baity headline. Apple being aware of testing data suggesting more malleability isn’t the same as Apple having definitive knowledge that Bendgate would happen. If 100 out of 1,000,000 iPhone 5 models would bend, guess what? 800 out of 1,000,000 iPhone 6 models would make it eight times more likely to bend—but it’s still a paltry .08% of units bending. We have no idea what the baseline is, and it’s irresponsible to say Apple “had knowledge” that the Bendgate scandal would happen before iPhone 6 shipped.

One example of a responsible headline would be: Apple knew iPhone 6 was more malleable than iPhone 5s before shipping.

I can respect that opinion.

What betrays a sense of Apple's innocence in this matter is the fact that they did NOT publicly reveal that knowledge when the issue was initially brought to light. Apple kept this information secret until a court required them to produce that information.

So while customers were first experiencing this problem, Apple was like "This only affects a few people, there's no reason why this should be happening on a broader scale." (not an actual quote but a paraphrase) That has turned out not to be truthful. They had data that indicated a greater probability of that happening. And all the while that Apple is denying there's a problem, they secretly modified the design so that the 6S chassis had a bit more aluminum at the weak point. If there was truly "nothing to see here", why go the effort and expense to fix a non-problem?

 

[MacBH928]

When smartphones first came out they were expensive, but not Apple have to convince people to continue to buy $600 phones every 2 years to keep those revenues up.

My iphone 7 is doing twitter and web browsing just fine, if they don't plan obsolescence with software or hardware, stock is going down.

 

[Saturn007]

I really hope there's another lawsuit against Apple for this. My iPhone 6 is curved like a banana

Photo, please!

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

This is so ridiculous! It would be like finding out that the brand new $400,000 car you bought, the one with the 'rich mahogany dashboard' turned out to be a sticker and not 'real' wood.

That Apple KNEW this was going to be an issue is not surprising. That they still pushed ahead and actually delivered these 'defective' devices, and then studiously ignored the problem, and beat up on their users over it is criminal! Someone at Apple decided that they would rather save a few bucks, and meet their ship date, than admit they screwed up the design, and need to rework it and ship possibly a month late.

It's not like they don't have a lot of experience with their own damn devices. A 'real innovative company' would be watching the whole life cycle of their products, and watching not only what is sold, but what returns and repairs they are experiencing. If they were covering this issue up because by the time people started experiencing it, they had shipped 'too many of them', that is just an admission that they really screwed themselves, and their customers, in the butt.

Apple knew it was going to happen. Apple blamed the user when it did. Apple charged the user to fix their problem.

Apple deserves to lose customers over this. They are taking their users for granted. The real sad part is that Apple could have addressed 'bendgate' in so many innovative ways. Blaming the user isn't innovative, it's cowardly, and nasty.

Do the 8's use the sticker too? The X? I'll have to check ifixit's tear down and see if these new iPhones are going to crap out too.

Come on Apple! It's not like people aren't paying you enough to get it right the first time!!!

 

[macjunk(ie)]

This is so ridiculous! It would be like finding out that the brand new $400,000 car you bought, the one with the 'rich mahogany dashboard' turned out to be a sticker and not 'real' wood.

That Apple KNEW this was going to be an issue is not surprising. That they still pushed ahead and actually delivered these 'defective' devices, and then studiously ignored the problem, and beat up on their users over it is criminal! Someone at Apple decided that they would rather save a few bucks, and meet their ship date, than admit they screwed up the design, and need to rework it and ship possibly a month late.

It's not like they don't have a lot of experience with their own damn devices. A 'real innovative company' would be watching the whole life cycle of their products, and watching not only what is sold, but what returns and repairs they are experiencing. If they were covering this issue up because by the time people started experiencing it, they had shipped 'too many of them', that is just an admission that they really screwed themselves, and their customers, in the butt.

Apple knew it was going to happen. Apple blamed the user when it did. Apple charged the user to fix their problem.

Apple deserves to lose customers over this. They are taking their users for granted. The real sad part is that Apple could have addressed 'bendgate' in so many innovative ways. Blaming the user isn't innovative, it's cowardly, and nasty.

Do the 8's use the sticker too? The X? I'll have to check ifixit's tear down and see if these new iPhones are going to crap out too.

Come on Apple! It's not like people aren't paying you enough to get it right the first time!!!

All valid points but Apple will not loose customers. They will continue making truck loads of money. I hate it but this is how it is. Just have a look at how strongly Apple is defended in this forum!

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

All valid points but Apple will not loose customers. They will continue making truck loads of money. I hate it but this is how it is. Just have a look at how strongly Apple is defended in this forum!

Hence why I said they 'deserve' to lose customers... I was having near debilitating flashbacks of my experiences with the early 'Windows Phone', and all of the 'features' that my carrier decided to deny me. I lost my address book so many times, and nothing works, no texting, email, I was able to get internet, but I could have walked there faster. The thing crashed on occasion. Usually, when I lost my address book, I'd just sync it back when I got to the office, but once I lost that too! NO CONTACTS. *POOF* What a 'feature'...

I'd almost rather do without than think of using Android, but that's where Apple takes its user base for granted. They have gotten fat and lazy, and their devices have gotten skinnier and a lot more diva...

 

[sracer]

This is so ridiculous! It would be like finding out that the brand new $400,000 car you bought, the one with the 'rich mahogany dashboard' turned out to be a sticker and not 'real' wood.

That Apple KNEW this was going to be an issue is not surprising. That they still pushed ahead and actually delivered these 'defective' devices, and then studiously ignored the problem, and beat up on their users over it is criminal! Someone at Apple decided that they would rather save a few bucks, and meet their ship date, than admit they screwed up the design, and need to rework it and ship possibly a month late.

It's not like they don't have a lot of experience with their own damn devices. A 'real innovative company' would be watching the whole life cycle of their products, and watching not only what is sold, but what returns and repairs they are experiencing. If they were covering this issue up because by the time people started experiencing it, they had shipped 'too many of them', that is just an admission that they really screwed themselves, and their customers, in the butt.

Apple knew it was going to happen. Apple blamed the user when it did. Apple charged the user to fix their problem.

Apple deserves to lose customers over this. They are taking their users for granted. The real sad part is that Apple could have addressed 'bendgate' in so many innovative ways. Blaming the user isn't innovative, it's cowardly, and nasty.

Do the 8's use the sticker too? The X? I'll have to check ifixit's tear down and see if these new iPhones are going to crap out too.

Come on Apple! It's not like people aren't paying you enough to get it right the first time!!!

This is not the first time this has happened with Apple. And it won't be the last. No one who knows Apple should be surprised.

If customer anger doesn't result in them being former customers, then the anger expressed is nothing more than blowing off some steam. WWDC is a week or so away, and everyone will be glued to the live stream ready to hand over more money for Apple's next shiny bauble. Rinse and repeat.

I'd almost rather do without than think of using Android, but that's where Apple takes its user base for granted. They have gotten fat and lazy, and their devices have gotten skinnier and a lot more diva...

You call it taking the user base for granted. I call it the users getting what they want. Otherwise they wouldn't keep supporting Apple.

If you would rather do without a smartphone than go with an Android smartphone that reveals how deep the issue goes.

 

[MistrSynistr]

Those 6 models were all screwed up. I had a 6 plus where the top right corner bowed out and expanded, maybe due to battery? Not sure. And remember the TAB debacle? Where everything re-loaded all the time? Yikes.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Yes, the 8+ uses the sticker. I can't tell from the tear down if the chips are underfilled. I hope this isn't a repeat of the 6+. I had 'bendgate' symptoms, and I kept it in an Otterbox case from nearly the day I got it. Tragic. It was NOT bent. Or at least I thought not. Just a crappy design from the start. Too many corners cut.
[doublepost=1527256118][/doublepost]

This is not the first time this has happened with Apple. And it won't be the last. No one who knows Apple should be surprised.

If customer anger doesn't result in them being former customers, then the anger expressed is nothing more than blowing off some steam. WWDC is a week or so away, and everyone will be glued to the live stream ready to hand over more money for Apple's next shiny bauble. Rinse and repeat.


You call it taking the user base for granted. I call it the users getting what they want. Otherwise they wouldn't keep supporting Apple.

If you would rather do without a smartphone than go with an Android smartphone that reveals how deep the issue goes.

So true. The Apple IIc, the Apple III, the Cube, the... Yeah, Apple has a history of customer abuse. Oh, I'd throw the sealed iMacs, and the crazy locked down Mac Mini in there as well. The overuse of glues and 'seals', and other nasty ways to keep the users out of the PC bred habit of upgrading their machines. *SIGH* The really old Mac Pro was the last 'open-ish' box they will probably ever make. The 'New Old Mac Pro' was a middle finger to pro users that WANT the ability to upgrade. Ironic it looked like a trash can?

Who knows if Apple is stalling the 'New New Mac Pro' to see if users will accept another closed/locked down/hot mess of 'innovation'...

WWDC will be, like always, a 'Nerd Prom' of promises and features, and more locked down 'innovation'. Pomp and circumstance...

 

[shadowmatt]

I can respect that opinion.

What betrays a sense of Apple's innocence in this matter is the fact that they did NOT publicly reveal that knowledge when the issue was initially brought to light. Apple kept this information secret until a court required them to produce that information.

So while customers were first experiencing this problem, Apple was like "This only affects a few people, there's no reason why this should be happening on a broader scale." (not an actual quote but a paraphrase) That has turned out not to be truthful. They had data that indicated a greater probability of that happening. And all the while that Apple is denying there's a problem, they secretly modified the design so that the 6S chassis had a bit more aluminum at the weak point. If there was truly "nothing to see here", why go the effort and expense to fix a non-problem?

Apple should be fined for requiring people to pay for a fix to a design / manufacturing problem.

Is it not fraud that they did that?

 

[kazmac]

This is not the first time this has happened with Apple. And it won't be the last. No one who knows Apple should be surprised.

If customer anger doesn't result in them being former customers, then the anger expressed is nothing more than blowing off some steam. WWDC is a week or so away, and everyone will be glued to the live stream ready to hand over more money for Apple's next shiny bauble. Rinse and repeat.


You call it taking the user base for granted. I call it the users getting what they want. Otherwise they wouldn't keep supporting Apple.

If you would rather do without a smartphone than go with an Android smartphone that reveals how deep the issue goes.

QFT...

Geez, could it be anymore obvious how far post-Jobs Apple will go to make a buck?

Sad thing is, my iMac needs upgrading but there is no machine I would replace it with and the software is even worse. I have been on the receiving end of being blamed for phone issues that were Apple store “specialists” problems. With suits like this when Apple obviously knew of the problems but said nothing, they deserve to get sued.

As far as my 7+, I will be using this for as long as I can. Buying this phone taught me I do not need latest and greatest: I just want a phone that works. I tried Android, but could not adjust. If the iPad had native phone capabilities, I would ditch the iPhone so fast.

 

[sracer]

Apple should be fined for requiring people to pay for a fix to a design / manufacturing problem.

Is it not fraud that they did that?

Yes, I believe it is fraud. (by quoting my post it implies that I thought otherwise.)

And by the same token, people are accountable for what they know. If by some remarkable chance, people DIDN'T know this about Apple, they do now. What they do from this point on, is on THEM (not Apple).

So many people have been so willing to give a faceless corporation the benefit of the doubt over an individual person who experienced first-hand these issues... even to the point of impugning that person's character. That is cultish behavior. The most ardent supporters refuse to acknowledge the truthfulness of these claims until it affects them personally... and even THEN, they are willing to give Apple a pass.

QFT...

Geez, could it be anymore obvious how far post-Jobs Apple will go to make a buck?

Sad thing is, my iMac needs upgrading but there is no machine I would replace it with and the software is even worse. I have been on the receiving end of being blamed for phone issues that were Apple store “specialists” problems. With suits like this when Apple obviously knew of the problems but said nothing, they deserve to get sued.

As far as my 7+, I will be using this for as long as I can. Buying this phone taught me I do not need latest and greatest: I just want a phone that works. I tried Android, but could not adjust. If the iPad had native phone capabilities, I would ditch the iPhone so fast.

I hear you. It's no secret to the regulars on this forum, that I'm very strategic about what Apple products I buy now, and that if Apple doesn't change their trajectory, the Apple devices that I currently own will be my last.

My current phone is the iPhone SE. When it comes time to replace it, if there is no follow on to the SE that satisfies my needs, then I'm back to Android. I don't buy flagship phones, so Android works well on the budget to mid-range phones.

My current notebook is an 11" Macbook Air. I used to buy Macbook Pros. But when I experienced those MBP failures coupled with an ever-increasing price, I switched to the Air. When I need to replace it, if Apple doesn't offer an Air, I'll go elsewhere.

My current iPad is the 2018 iPad. I still have my 12.9 iPad Pro, which my wife now uses, but when I need to replace this 2018 iPad, if Apple doesn't offer a comparable follow-on device, then I'll move on.

 

[I7guy]

The prime reason for those sales was because they were forced via these design defects. Apple was well aware of those defects but they ship the product anyway because once it gives in midway, another sale is guaranteed.

Samsung didn't have any serious defects like this apart from their batteries and that wasn't a conscious choice by Samsung.

Touch Disease was a result of a conscious choice by Apple. They knew once the device is out of warranty and stops working, the customer is back for a new iPhone

So you're claiming to know the reason the masses bought iphones?

Apple doesn't have any serious defects either. Not like exploding batteries and waterproof phones that leak.

Antennagate affected all iphone users, not everyone posted on MacRumors about it. The iphone 6 alleged engineering issue, did it affect all users? No. My son was not affected.

 

[JGRE]

What was Samsung supposed to do? Admit their phones ignited?

Exactly, there is no choice.

Ummm because she is the judge that resides over the area in which the court filings are made..... seems pretty simple to me.

Yes, thanks (and also to the other responses I got), but how is she unbiased and independent after so many trials?

 

[Radon87000]

So you're claiming to know the reason the masses bought iphones?

Its not rocket science. These defects render the phone unusable. Obiovusly this has an impact on sales

Apple doesn't have any serious defects either. Not like exploding batteries and waterproof phones that leak.

The difference is exploding batteries were not an intentional design choice like Touch Disease or Throttlegate. It was an honest mistake. Never heard of the waterproof leaks,link?

Antennagate affected all iphone users, not everyone posted on MacRumors about it. The iphone 6 alleged engineering issue, did it affect all users? No. My son was not affected.

Apple doesn't want it to affect all users. Even if 20% are affected its enough for record sales in addition to the switchers. The engineering defect is not alleged. Apple has officially admitted they knew about it and it exists

 

[I7guy]

Its not rocket science. These defects render the phone unusable. Obiovusly this has an impact on sales


The difference is exploding batteries were not an intentional design choice like Touch Disease or Throttlegate. It was an honest mistake. Never heard of the waterproof leaks,link?



Apple doesn't want it to affect all users. Even if 20% are affected its enough for record sales in addition to the switchers. The engineering defect is not alleged. Apple has officially admitted they knew about it and it exists

It actually isn't rocket science. Not everybody gets affected by all "issues" involving manufacturing. Touch disease was as intentional as exploding batteries. Throttlegate is a non-issue.

Link to the 20% that are affected. Not all users were affected, because not all users were affected.

As far as exploding batteries, Samsung also admitted they knew about it and it existed. The recall did help move the process along.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/galaxy-s7-active-fails-water-resistance-tests/

 

[dk001]

Tennis match: @Radon87000 vs. @I7guy
All tied at 4 : 4

 

[cbaca51]

My 6s worked perfectly fine and no bend

 

[Radon87000]

It actually isn't rocket science. Not everybody gets affected by all "issues" involving manufacturing. Touch disease was as intentional as exploding batteries.

Everyone does not need to be affected to affect sales. A small proportion can be enough to force a substantial number of upgrades. Not everyone was affected by throttlegate yet Apple had to resort to refunding 2017 Battery replacements as a gesture of goodwill.

Throttlegate is a non-issue.

It burned Apple to the point they had to refund partially all battery replacements for all iPhones in 2017 and provide a battery health menu in settings,a very un-Applelike move considering the fact that this is going to affect resale values of iPhones now

Link to the 20% that are affected. Not all users were affected, because not all users were affected.

It was a conservative estimate actually. It seems to be pretty common according to iFixit.50% repairs relate to Touch Disease.

Turns out, Jessa’s not alone. Lots of repair pros are experiencing the same influx of faulty iPhones—most with flickering gray bars and all with glitchy touch functionality. Rami Odeh, a repair tech from New Orleans, sees up to 100 iPhone 6 and 6 Pluses a month that don’t respond well to touch. About half of the repairs sent to Michael Huie—the specialist behind Microsoldering.com—show symptoms of the same problem.

Of course, there’s no way to tell exactly how many phones are afflicted with what we’re calling Touch Disease, but every repair tech we spoke to told us that the problem is incredibly common.

“This issue is widespread enough that I feel like almost every iPhone 6/6+ has a touch of it (no pun intended) and are like ticking bombs just waiting to act up,” says Jason Villmer, owner of STS Telecom—a board repair shop in Missouri. He sees phones like this several times a week.

As far as exploding batteries, Samsung also admitted they knew about it and it existed. The recall did help move the process along.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/galaxy-s7-active-fails-water-resistance-tests/

Samsung crammed a bigger battery than what was required into the chassis and sourced it from 2 suppliers, the second of which turned out to be a dud. However they did not know this would result in an exploding battery.

Apple knew perfectly well the iPhone 6 was heavily prone to bending compared to iPhone 5s and that because of the lack of underfill, they compromised on the reliability of the iPhone 6's touch screen and despite both the above they shipped it.

Apple knew the consequences of what they were shipping. Samsung did not. No company in their right mind would ship a phone which explodes.

As far as the S7 goes, that defect does not render the phone unusable nor does it hamper the day to day usage of the device. These ratings are pointless anyway as despite all these YouTube videos and ratings, I can guarantee that with my luck if I so much as drop my iPhone in a pool it will be wrecked.

 

[I7guy]

Everyone does not need to be affected to affect sales. A small proportion can be enough to force a substantial number of upgrades. Not everyone was affected by throttlegate yet Apple had to resort to refunding 2017 Battery replacements as a gesture of goodwill.

Since sales weren't affected and in fact, went through the roof, you can only assume that people were compelled enough to buy the products. Goodwill is never a bad thing, let's not make it into a negative.

It burned Apple to the point they had to refund partially all battery replacements for all iPhones in 2017 and provide a battery health menu in settings,a very un-Applelike move considering the fact that this is going to affect resale values of iPhones now

"Burned apple"? I don't think so. Unless one works at apple one doesn't necessarily know if this was the plan from the beginning. It's great to have great resale value, but I use my phones until they fall apart. Eventually my 6s will become my play-toy phone.

It was a conservative estimate actually. It seems to be pretty common according to iFixit.50% repairs relate to Touch Disease.

Samsung crammed a bigger battery than what was required into the chassis and sourced it from 2 suppliers, the second of which turned out to be a dud. However they did not know this would result in an exploding battery.

Sounds like an excuse for Samsung.

Apple knew perfectly well the iPhone 6 was heavily prone to bending compared to iPhone 5s and that because of the lack of underfill, they compromised on the reliability of the iPhone 6's touch screen and despite both the above they shipped it.

Apple knew the consequences of what they were shipping. Samsung did not. No company in their right mind would ship a phone which explodes.

I know my modern car is way more prone to damage than my old 1957 Cadillac with chrome bumpers. So what's the point of what you are saying? This still didn't affect all users. That doesn't stop car manufacturers from designing modern cars like they do. So having said that I don't believe Apple knew what you are claiming and found out after the phone was shipping. As far as any company in their right mind, using Enron and Bernie Madoff as examples of companies will do anything.

As far as the S7 goes, that defect does not render the phone unusable nor does it hamper the day to day usage of the device. These ratings are pointless anyway as despite all these YouTube videos and ratings, I can guarantee that with my luck if I so much as drop my iPhone in a pool it will be wrecked.

Which is why Samsung pulled the champagne commercial as they don't repair phones with water damage.

 

[KevinN206]

https://www.theverge.com/2014/9/25/6844943/apple-says-iphone-bending-extremely-rare

The battery lawsuits are going to boil down to whether Apple can be held liable for using the general phrase "power management" in their initial iOS update vs. spelling out the details of how the temporary throttling worked. Is that really an area where there are clear legal precedents or laws? Doesn't seem like to me. And forget about the actual physical battery part. Apple can roll out endless scientific proof about the known limitations of lithium ion batteries.

I think one possible argument is that the Apple Store doesn't tell anyone about this power management issue is related to their battery. That's probably because these employees never knew. They just recommend that the phone be replaced with a new one even though it was being throttled due to degraded battery performance. Instead of spending $80 to replace it, the consumer is recommended to buy a new phone for $600-$1000.

 

[KevinN206]

The main problem with this theory is that Apple clearly demonstrated that the iPhone 6 design was torture tested thousands and thousands of times. They showed videos of the tests, which included torque, sit tests, and three point bend. They provided data from the tests. So why didn't "touch disease" show up in units that went through all of that torture testing if the lack of a metal shield + lack of underfill + bending = "touch disease"?

I guess the question is why does anything fail at all if it has gone through all of these testing? Unfortunately testing is part of engineering to find defects in your design. Design defects that escaped to consumers are because engineers did not test for concurrence of conditions and time. You can't test something that you didn't anticipate. You can test it as much as you want but sometimes in the real world with real people using it in real ways are where defects are discovered.

The 3-point bend test may not detect the issue either if the pressure point is only applied at the center with the two ends secured. The weak point in the iPhone 6 Plus is along the width at the bottom of the volume down button. Run this line across and you can see it's in close proximity to the touch chip. There are four design errors that led to this:

1. Chip area metal plate was removed unlike the iPhone 5 (less rigid)
2. Chip underfill was removed (mechanical strength is purely the solder ball)
3. The weak bend point is located on a line that's to close the touch chip
4. The metal alloy case was not strong enough to counteract # 1, 2 and 3.

Apple strength this area in the iPhone 6s Plus by increasing the thickness of the perimeter from 1.14 mm to 1.90 mm and used a stronger metal alloy.

https://www.cultofmac.com/385768/new-iphone-6s-bend-test-reveals-super-strong-aluminum-shell/

 

[fairuz]

Just more things making the iPhone 6 the worst iPhone release ever. I want to throw mine off a bridge and replace it with an iPhone 5, which was actually better.

 

[I7guy]

I guess the question is why does anything fail at all if it has gone through all of these testing? Unfortunately testing is part of engineering to find defects in your design. Design defects that escaped to consumers are because engineers did not test for concurrence of conditions and time. You can't test something that you didn't anticipate. You can test it as much as you want but sometimes in the real world with real people using it in real ways are where defects are discovered.

The 3-point bend test may not detect the issue either if the pressure point is only applied at the center with the two ends secured. The weak point in the iPhone 6 Plus is along the width at the bottom of the volume down button. Run this line across and you can see it's in close proximity to the touch chip. There are four design errors that led to this:

1. Chip area metal plate was removed unlike the iPhone 5 (less rigid)
2. Chip underfill was removed (mechanical strength is purely the solder ball)
3. The weak bend point is located on a line that's to close the touch chip
4. The metal alloy case was not strong enough to counteract # 1, 2 and 3.

Apple strength this area in the iPhone 6s Plus by increasing the thickness of the perimeter from 1.14 mm to 1.90 mm and used a stronger metal alloy.

https://www.cultofmac.com/385768/new-iphone-6s-bend-test-reveals-super-strong-aluminum-shell/

So in essence Apple improves its products generation after generation.