My iPhone has touch disease and I've been so careful with it. Luckily it still works and only cuts out every now and again. I'm disappointed this issue hasn't got a viable solution from Apple, they continue to disappoint customers. I'll be ready to purchase a new phone shortly and currently Apple doesn't have anything to offer.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Knew About Bendgate and Touch Disease iPhone 6 Issues Months in Advance of Repair Programs
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Apple knew it was more likely to bend than a 5S in lab testing.
Doesn’t contradict the fact that it’s a rare occurence in the wild.
Like even if it was 1% (so like 750k phones worldwide, which is a wild exaggeration) it’s still not a “stop the presses” issue.
And fixing something doesn’t mean you were maliciously wrong in the first place, I doubt the BOM changed significantly from 6 to 6S.
Admitting fault immediately back then? You realize that’s litigation suicide?
Both the actors (Apple vs suing consumers) need to bend the facts and the wording in their favor, simple as that.
That said, I think people affected should have it fixed for 50$ or free instead of 149$. (I’m reluctant to say free because that open the doors to any idiot sitting on his iphone repeatedly)
Doesn’t contradict the fact that it’s a rare occurence in the wild.
Like even if it was 1% (so like 750k phones worldwide, which is a wild exaggeration) it’s still not a “stop the presses” issue.
And fixing something doesn’t mean you were maliciously wrong in the first place, I doubt the BOM changed significantly from 6 to 6S.
Admitting fault immediately back then? You realize that’s litigation suicide?
Both the actors (Apple vs suing consumers) need to bend the facts and the wording in their favor, simple as that.
That said, I think people affected should have it fixed for 50$ or free instead of 149$. (I’m reluctant to say free because that open the doors to any idiot sitting on his iphone repeatedly)
Exactly what I am saying. I myself bought a new iPhone because they ruined the old one. Try explaining Touch Disease or Bendgate to the average Apple customer. In my immediate circle, they would go out and buy a new iPhone as its 2 years old at that point.
It was never their plan because they waited right till the moment it became unavoidable and started getting tons of negative press. They had tried their usual staregy of ignoring it and it even worked for a month or so. Then came the **** ton of lawsuits and they were pressurised into giving refunds.
Profit oriented companies like Apple WILL NEVER issue refunds for anything unless their hands were tied and were forced to do it. Don't want it eat into the bottom line.
Its not an excuse. Samsung would not ship an exploding phone. The damages and consequences of loss of property and injuries would be catastrophic. Apple shipped the phone with Bendgate and Touch Disease because they knew it would affect a fraction of the iPhone owners, that too well into the phone life cycle thereby forcing the owner to get another iPhone.
The point is quite simple. In an endeavour to maximise profits, they tried to save costs on the underfill and the chassis structure. When the phone entered production and was subjected to their internal testing they found they had committed a grave error but it was too late to change anything. They quietly reverted their strategy back for the 6s but instead of scrapping the iPhone 6 they shipped it anyway as it would be well into the product lifecycle before the customers find out and no one would suspect Apple for it. This in addition to the 1GB of RAM makes this the worst iPhone Apple has ever released till date.
https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-knew-about-the-iphone-6-bendgate-problem/
Released court documents show that while Apple publicly denied the existence of "Bendgate," the company's own internal testing showed that the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus were far more susceptible to damage from bending than previous models.
Basically they lied to their customers.
And if they only found out about it after shipping ,its their duty to issue a recall and get the issue fixed. And even if that's not feasible, its their duty to not charge for repairs of bendgate and Touch Disease as its their own fault. Apple did neither.
There is huge difference between a fraud and an exploding phone.
No one does. However this defect is not as severe as Touch Disease, Bendgate or Batterygate because it doesn't affect the normal operation of the phone. No one is moronic enough to deck a $1200 phone in water to test its IP rating, unless you are one of those YouTube testers.
[doublepost=1527330147][/doublepost]
They improved nothing. They reverted their strategy after they found out their cost cutting had created a major problem. They also did this with Throttlegate. They found out about those inferior batteries in the 6s,6 and 7 and fixed it on the 8.
[doublepost=1527330299][/doublepost]
There is a chance Apple may offer free repairs for Touch Disease because of this law suit. Try and wait it out
Exactly. For all you know a person may have had an iphone 6, been very happy with it and upgraded because they dropped it in the subway. I think the average customer would understand engineering defects. All people have seen car recalls and car accidents. Samsung customers have been exposed to exploding batteries and washing machines. People understand manufacturing defects happen.
Unless one is inside a company there is no way to know what companies will do or won't do and what they wait for or don't wait for.
Again, one cannot know or assume what a company will do or won't do. One assumes a company won't defraud it's customers, yet there was Enron and Bernie Madoff.
More supposition.
Court documents show the phone was likely to bend. In the same way if you drop a phone from 6 feet it would be likely to break. And after the fact, they probably knew that some arbitrary percent or number phones was subject to rough handling and could potentially bend. And then there are those who just lie about the situation.
Right, but you can't prove either one from any company.
Confirmational bias. How could you know what defect was severe or not? Based on what facts or links?
Last edited:
This. Their own internal testing said the phone is more likely to bend by a significant margin. Yet, when customers came rolling on complaining about the phone bending, they went on to say the customers were at fault and charged them to repair it. Lying to our faces! Where is the ethics in that?
Yes but by compromising on the underfill and the chassis, Apple ensured that a portion of the iPhone 6 owners would be forced to buy a newer model. They built a ticking time bomb into the product. If I went out right now to buy an iPhone 6, there are definite chances of ending up with a dud while the probability of dropping my phone depends on me.
Apple charged money for fixing Touch Disease. Apple refunded money on Throttlegate. Both these issues were Apple's fault.Both issues do not affect all iPhones.Difference is there was more negative press with Throttlegate and more lawsuits were filed. Apple was forced to address Throttlegate.
I can only look at what a company did in another similar scenario and what I am seeing is a customer being charged money for something which is a product flaw and in another instance being forced to refund money. Another difference I can see is more lawsuits and investigations were started in the case of Throttlegate which wernet started in Touch DIsease
Apple's internal documents clearly state they told the public the iPhone 6 was sturdy while their own internal testing said otherwise and it was clearly inferior to the prior model. Facts
Yes. Only for the iPhone 6. The iPhone 6s,5s,4s did not bend. Likewise only iPhone 6 has Touch Disease because this model lacks an underfill which the 5s,6s and 4s do have.
That's a matter for the Court but thanks to this lawsuit we can definitively prove Apple lied. Twice. Once in their internal testing for bendgate and another when they shipped their throttle in an update without telling the customer that their battery was defective.
In the case of Touch DIsease and Bendgate, the phone is unusable without me having to do anything. In the case of that S7 active I need to dip the phone in water. The second instance is controllable on my part. The first is not. Hence the first instance is a severe defect
[doublepost=1527343960][/doublepost]
I agree.They did this twice. First time they lied when they shipped an update which throttles phones and didn't tell anyone. This is the second time. They should refund that $149 to all customers who were charged for this product flaw which is Apple's fault. I guess we need more lawsuits and investigations by authorities before Apple is forced to do so. Clearly ethics or customer satisfaction is not a priority for Tim Cook. Moar profits. That's all that matters.
We can go around and around on some of these points. We each have our points fueled not by objectiveness but by situational bias. The only take away is Tim Cook is not going anywhere soon.
And I find you to be one of the individuals I described.
[doublepost=1527361630][/doublepost]
I mean yeah pretty much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[doublepost=1527361699][/doublepost]
Same old excuses from people like you
Sure if that makes you feel better. I am typing this on a mid-2017 MacBook Pro 13. I encountered a few keys getting stuck with my keyboard so much that I put on a keyboard protector to prevent debris from getting underneath the keys. Let's see what improvements Apple will roll out to their next generation keyboards.
You are right. I should be grateful for these improvements that Apple used a MORE expensive metal alloy and MORE rigid casing with MORE thickness just so that they can improve the product. They could have easily just used the same metal alloy, the same casing, and the same thickness. That would have actually saved Apple money. But I am grateful that Apple scarified their profit margin for improvements. Can we also call Samsung fixing the exploding battery as "generation after generation" of improvements? Let's summarize.
1. Removed metal plate from IC
2. Removed underfill from IC
3. Case has a weakness at the volume button next to a very rigid plate & screw
4. Testing shows *all* good (therefore it must be good)
5. Released to production
6. Oh shoot things are bending "extremely rare" starting Sept 2014
7. Apple issued statements on extensive testing and meets their high quality standards
8. Touch disease starts to appear in April 2016
9. iPhone 6s Plus is released with more expensive but stronger and thicker case
10. Lawsuit
11. Lawsuit exposes that the old case is 7x more likely to bend
12. So in essence Apple improves its products generation after generation
Last edited:
Tim Cook is doing what he does best and that's to cut corners to increase profit and force more frequent upgrades.
Under Steve Jobs the priorities were great for the customer:
#1 Product
#2 Quality
Under Tim Cook the priority only benefits the company and shareholders but not the customer:
#1 Profit at the expense of cutting corners
Under Steve Jobs the priorities were great for the customer:
#1 Product
#2 Quality
Under Tim Cook the priority only benefits the company and shareholders but not the customer:
#1 Profit at the expense of cutting corners
Last edited:
Product improvements are continuous. It's not unheard of, of any manufacturer to update parts for the next product release or even re-engineer parts during a product life cycle.
Whether or not you are grateful for product improvements is strictly personal. Or whether you maintain a subjective opinion apple under engineered it's product lines doesn't affect my subjective view of the matter.
As far as lawsuits, meh. That's for the courts to work out, these things go all ways. And apple is a big fat target. So we'll see where this goes.
As far as anybody else's view of Tim Cook, I like him and most likely he will leave apple of his own accord.
Design flaws can and do occur to even the best engineers in the world. A design error is still a design error even if its impact is "extremely rare". It was rare enough that Apple in May 2016 ADDED underfill to the touch chip to the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus. The lawsuit EXPOSES things that Apple knew and fixed that they publicly claimed were not a problem. Why add underfill to the SAME chip and to the SAME phone models after almost two years of denial?
I don't think anyone here is saying that manufacturers don't improve their designs after initial release. Just look at the PlayStation and Xbox One going through several motherboard revisions in while using the original case. That happens ALL the time in consumer electronics to reduce BOM cost, to add second source, to address obsolescence, to improve manufacturability, to reduce lead-time, and so on..
Guess what they also do? To address and fix known design issues!!! I know it's hard to believe that Apple is capable of making design errors and addressed that through your words of making improvements. You can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't negate the fact that they added in underfill to the same touch chip to fix a non-issue. YUP! Not only that, they used stronger metal and thicker case for the iPhone 6s Plus just one gen after. In my business, it's called LESSONS LEARNED.
Last edited:
If anybody feels better they should have learned after antenna-gate. But what may not be a problem to the masses doesn’t mean parts don’t get reengineered as needed.
The courts will have the answer to some of the questions you posed as I don’t have the insider info.
Why do you think Apple felt it was "needed" to "re-engineer" this touch chip with underfill to the same two affected phone models? Note that the underfill was added retroactively after the touch disease went viral.
No matter how you play it, Apple deliberately placed into commerce a product with a known defect and then played the deny game. Seriously unethical.
At this time the Tennis game @I7guy vs. @Radon87000 goes to @Radon87000 5-7.
Apple did not intentionally ship a broken product in Antennagate. In this case, Apple not only ships a broken product, they have the gall to ask the customer to pay $149 + Taxes. Not only want to have their cake but eat it too. This is exactly like Throttlegate. With the amount of compromises the 6 has, be it the ram or touch disease or bendgate or those defective batteries, Apple should give these customers a free upgrade to the 6s or at the very least repair the problems for free and refund those who paid. Its not our fault, you guys decided to cut corners on the components and it came out broken.
Most. But not Apple, they know their base. Their entire image is built on PREMIUM.
They even charge YOU to fix THEIR defects. They did it with bendgate, and then they made people replace their own batteries too.
Shady, shady, shady.
Once mine bent with just being in my purse, I had to pay to get a new one. I sold it quickly there after.
I feel like that phone was the easiest to bend that I've ever seen. I've never once had a device that shocked me quite like that one.
I don't have the best luck with Apple products honestly. I've owned way more non Apple products but I've had dramatically less return/exchange/repair/replace/recall issues with them.
I feel like that phone was the easiest to bend that I've ever seen. I've never once had a device that shocked me quite like that one.
I don't have the best luck with Apple products honestly. I've owned way more non Apple products but I've had dramatically less return/exchange/repair/replace/recall issues with them.
Generally, increasing the quantity of words doesn't make the situation clearer. There are some who are unable or unwilling to acknowledge the reality of a situation. It really is pretty simple. Any attempt to bring other situations for the purposes of "clarity" really just cause confusion...
- Apple knew in their testing prior to releasing the iPhone 6/6+ that they were significantly more prone to bending than previous versions (kudos to Apple for even considering this possibility)
- When customers started reporting that their iPhone 6/6+ were bending, Apple claimed that it was only a handful, implying that it was nothing out of the ordinary. They certainly didn't acknowledge that their testing revealed the 6/6+ were more likely to bend than previous versions.
- The greater flex in the chassis coupled with shortcuts taken with the touch sensor chip resulted in "touch disease". When customers reported problems of this issue, Apple denied that it was a defect, instead explaining how it was the customer's fault. The phone didn't need to be bent in order to be affected by touch disease. Minor flexing caused by keeping it in a non-rigid container (like a pocket) could cause it.
- Soon after a popular Youtuber explained what the root cause of the issue was and how to address it (use of underfill), Apple quietly modified their manufacturing process to use underfill. Apple did not acknowledge to the public that they made this change. As this court case moves forward, it will be revealed that there are internal communications acknowledging the issue and instructions to change the manufacturing process.
- For the 6S/6S+ Apple made changes to the aluminum alloy used as well as changing the die mold use more material in the spot that was shown to be the weak point in the 6/6+. That is another clear indication that Apple knew that it was a problem.
Telling customers there isn't a problem with the product but with how the customer is using it. Charging customers for repairs for a device that had issues. All the while, Apple never publicly told customers to be careful with their phones because they are more likely to bend and flex. Instead, they said, "it's normal, nothing to see here". That resulted in more people being affected.
Had Apple come clean up-front and said, "yeah, it's a very thin and very light phone, it is more prone to bending", customers would've treated their phones differently.
You are correct, this is exactly like the throttling issue.
This is the new Apple, deliberately withholding information from the customer to Apple's benefit (initial price of the device, cost of repairs, buying replacements). Buyer beware.
I don’t know or not whether Apple shipped a defective or broken iPhone 4 or iPhone 6. There is no proof Apple did or did not know the iPhone 4 was a design defect and the iPhone 6 could bend for a minority of customers.
This has nothing to do with throttlegate and every phone has compromises, yet the 6 was the best seller ever. Unfortunately 4 years later it’s underpowered.
This is concerning considering I have the iPhone 6 Plus and it is frequently dropped (clumsy me) was there a recall on them? Or are only certain models affected? I don't have $149 to dish out due to poor design.
Unfortunately you could be hit with a bend or touch disease any time. However, due to this being much more out in the open, they might negotiate.
I know when mine was bent, I talked them down in price on replacement.
It took sitting around, talking to every level of management, and being patient but I got this done.
To be honest, I still think my Otterbox was partially at fault somehow for the bend in my purse. This is just my opinion but the case was so snug with hard plastic and practically no give! So if it had pressure put on it, I can easily see that pressure applied to the phone.