This is about empowering women for success, not having someone pick unqualified candidates. Nice straw man argument there. They are coming for you job mdnz. RUN!! LOL.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Launches App Development Program for Female Entrepreneurs and App Developers
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I heard Marissa Mayer is available. She has previous executive experience and in-depth knowledge in security.
Ah your definition of empowering for success is just giving them a job while they're unqualified. Nice straw man argument. By playing it personally it really shows your weakness and insecurity (or your misjudged privillege, take your pick).
You really don't realize that these kinds of programs are actually hurting the industry do you? Think for once in your life. Don't spew random comments, just think why that is the case.
for all of you who have an issue here, did you have an issue with the Obamas doing it?
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/letgirlslearn
https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/letgirlslearn
Who's forcing anything? You don't have to sign up, and sometimes people feel more comfortable with people who have more in common with them when learning something new. Why do you care so much about it?
[doublepost=1543338207][/doublepost]
I'll direct your attention to the White House.
I'm thinking the exact same thing about you. This program empowers women in their own business. How in the hell does that hurt the industry or make them unqualified? It's their business, why do you care so much? Why do you feel so threatened by this? You say you're in IT so you're not even a developer I take it? Because nobody who is an actual developer ever says they are an IT person. I am full stack and can't stand being called IT. Just face it, you want to hold them down and oppress them.
If you want to talk about something else entirely, let's talk about that. But you don't even understand what a straw man argument is. You were taking what Apple was doing here, and arguing against something else entirely to prove that it's bad. But let's argue what you're talking about. I'm advocating a fundamentally different approach which starts in preschool and builds through school to college. It produces qualified young women who can enter the workforce. I would like to add a support system, clubs and orgs, mentors, etc who can help these young women become qualified and get on equal footing with their male counterparts, if that is what they wish to pursue. To make it more socially acceptable. I've never advocated for hiring someone who is less qualified, so stop straw manning that crap right now bud.
The reason there are so many unqualified women is because they've been oppressed when it comes to trying to pursue an education and enter this industry. You don't see that because you have never walked a day in their shoes. You see this debate from a perspective of privilege, whether you wish to accept it or not, it is true because you are not female. Have you even spoken with a group of women in these fields? Do you have any female friends in the industry that you actually talk to about their struggles, their hopes and dreams? It's rough as hell to be a woman in these fields. We have to fix the root issue if we want to solve the problem and have better outcomes for all. Like it or not, more and more women are going to be entering this industry as it is among the fastest growing. Robotics and AI are going to be replacing many jobs in the coming decades. It will be much longer, if ever, that we allow robots and AI to work on themselves, meaning there will be high demand for these jobs for a long time. Furthermore, this is an industry that could really use a feminine touch as it has been male dominated for so long. It could use novel approaches to solving problems, it could use more women who are likely to show restraint when it comes to putting AI into war machines such as what Google has been working on with the federal government.
You tell me to think, and that's what I've done. I used to have a mindset much more like yours. I was raised very conservative. But it wasn't until I began to think for myself, to become more compassionate about my fellow man (and woman), that I began to see and understand. You have to listen. You have to stop yelling and objecting and sit for more than 30 minutes and just listen. I know it's going to be hard for you. It was hard for me. But once you listen, it changes everything. I challenge you in the new year to find people who aren't like you, sit down with them, and just listen to their stories. Listen to their struggles. Listen, listen, just listen. It makes all the difference in the world, I swear.
I'm collecting support for men who want to be garment fitters at Victoria Secrets retail stores. Men need to be equally represented in this market segment. /s
Honestly, having more women coders would be fantastic. They do see the world differently than men. My spouse tells me this every single day.
Honestly, having more women coders would be fantastic. They do see the world differently than men. My spouse tells me this every single day.
Neither do they.
If I gave up on every dream someone told me I couldn't accomplish I'd be dead at this point.
If these people can get knocked out simply by someone saying they can't do programming due their skin colour or genitals, of all things, then they've got bigger problems. Specifically, their problem is they're cowards, idiots, or both.
All of this is virtue signalling disguised as discrimination. It's the most backwards, strange thing I can imagine.
Oh well, I'm sure it'll sort it out self out either way. The women who want, will. No amount of money or discrimination in the world is going to change that. As long as you don't take away spots from men to give to women, I've got no quarrels with you.
Right, you don't have to sign up, but those that statistically DO want to sign up are not allowed because it's female only. (legally they will probably allow any person of any gender to sign up but that's besides the point, it's about their intentions and their marketing towards one specific gender.)
[doublepost=1543342747][/doublepost]
Actually they cannot do as they wish. If they were to actually enforce their female-only rule, they would be liable for discrimination based on a protected characteristic under the law. That is sex-based discrimination.
Aside from that, who here actually said anything about what Apple can and cannot do? You remind me of those people who will use the argument "I have freedom of speech so I have a right to say this", yes you do have that right, nobody is saying otherwise, what you're saying is just stupid.
picky picky picky................ try post 130, and on this regard they can do what they want.
evident
/ˈɛvɪd(ə)nt/
adjective
- clearly seen or understood; obvious.
Anyways, current science actually knows several things when it comes to a male vs female brain. Something along the lines of the left section of the brain being able to communicate with the right section of the brain. This ability is different between men and women. Women tend to be better at it and are therefore more capable of describing their emotions, whereas men are often times not as lucky.
Last edited:
How is this as an example:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012...ldren-toy-preferences-hormones_n_1827727.html
"When offered the choice of playing with either a doll or a toy truck, girls will typically pick the doll and boys will opt for the truck. This isn’t just because society encourages girls to be nurturing and boys to be active, as people once thought. In experiments, male adolescent monkeys also prefer to play with wheeled vehicles while the females prefer dolls — and their societies say nothing on the matter."
Chimps are among our most closely related ancestors and there is no reason to believe differences between their behavior is driven by some artificial social construct.
The simply scientific proof is there are fundamental difference between men and women. This ranges from temperament and distributions of intelligence. Men have more idiots and more geniuses. Though the mean, median and mode of IQ's are statistically identical between men and women, the standard deviation is slightly larger on men. If you look at the paradox of gender equality, studies across cultures are finding when you balance out the social aspects of gender the biological difference magnify:
https://www.thejournal.ie/gender-equality-countries-stem-girls-3848156-Feb2018/
"COUNTRIES WITH GREATER gender equality see a smaller proportion of women taking degrees in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM), a new study has found."
Now, it could be you don't believe climate change or evolution either.
What if I identify as a woman? Then what?
[doublepost=1543347116][/doublepost]
So.... What you guys are saying is.... If a guy and a woman both present an equally valid solution to a problem, the employer will tell the woman that she can't do what she just did because she's a woman? Or that it's not as good as it is because she's a woman? Or that she won't be able to make it doing what she just did, because she's a woman?
Show me one example. Ever.
And if you happen to come up with one or two exceptions, and they are exactly exceptions, I will simultaneously show you an irrationally led company that's not worth working for anyways.
This chronic victimhood nonsense has got to stop...
[doublepost=1543347909][/doublepost]
"Let's see hereeee.... You've got all the right credentials..... You white boarded like a champ.... I love the quality of the works in your portfolio..... Man, we've been short staffed and under earning for months now, and we've been desperately searching for a qualified candidate like you for ages... You're hir-...
Oh, oh goodness... It says here you're a woman....
Oh my... I'm..... I'm afraid we're going to have to move ahead with other more qualified candidates...."
Said no-one ever.
[doublepost=1543347116][/doublepost]
So.... What you guys are saying is.... If a guy and a woman both present an equally valid solution to a problem, the employer will tell the woman that she can't do what she just did because she's a woman? Or that it's not as good as it is because she's a woman? Or that she won't be able to make it doing what she just did, because she's a woman?
Show me one example. Ever.
And if you happen to come up with one or two exceptions, and they are exactly exceptions, I will simultaneously show you an irrationally led company that's not worth working for anyways.
This chronic victimhood nonsense has got to stop...
[doublepost=1543347909][/doublepost]
"Let's see hereeee.... You've got all the right credentials..... You white boarded like a champ.... I love the quality of the works in your portfolio..... Man, we've been short staffed and under earning for months now, and we've been desperately searching for a qualified candidate like you for ages... You're hir-...
Oh, oh goodness... It says here you're a woman....
Oh my... I'm..... I'm afraid we're going to have to move ahead with other more qualified candidates...."
Said no-one ever.
Last edited:
This is business to business not Apple hiring anyone.
Apple says that to be eligible for the program, which is now accepting applications, businesses must be female-founded, co-founded, or led and have at least one woman on the development team.
This program is open to female business owners
Apple says that to be eligible for the program, which is now accepting applications, businesses must be female-founded, co-founded, or led and have at least one woman on the development team.
This program is open to female business owners
I think quite a bit. If you go back to 1970 or so, the unwed birthrate among the caucasian and black populations were about 5% and 25% respectively. I don't know the data for Asians.
If you fast forward to now, you find the numbers are 25% and almost 75% (caucasians/black communities) with asians about 5%. I think the destruction of the nuclear family over the past 40 years has had a detrimental impact on many aspects of society.
[doublepost=1543349960][/doublepost]
Nice post overall but I would restate one part of it. See bolded parts.
NOTE: There is no evidence gender roles and career distribution, as seen in society, are driven by artificial cultural norms.
Actually, some change all the time:
http://gender.wikia.com/wiki/Lunagender
[doublepost=1543359949][/doublepost]Wow. So many lies...
Okay. You accept there are differences in men and women. Let's see where you go from here.
You took a 180 degree turn to whack-o land.
Ahhh... No. Even baby girl chimps will choose dolls while their male counter parts will choose things like trucks. Repeat after me. Most gender rolls are not artificial social constructs. The data has been saying this for 25 years. Or do you still deny global warming?
News flash: It is also difficult for men. Due to the distribution curves on temperaments, many more men WANT to be engineers and software people when compared to women when you remove as many social constraints as possible. Likewise, most men do not want to be engineers and programmers. It takes a specific temperament and there are just more men with that makeup. Look to Norway's distribution of career/gender choices. It is one of the most egalitarian societies out there with some of the most lopsided gender distributions in career choices.
Personally, I think a boy growing up in the lower east side of Riverdale Chicago is far more "disadvantaged" than a girl growing up in Winnetka Illinois.
If they want to, absolutely. But don't look at equality of outcome to determine success. I find equality of outcome hideous.
Do we want more women committing suicide? No.
Do we want more women in prison? No.
Are women begging to have more coal miners? No.
Work on fishing boats? No.
You accept there are differences between temperaments and interests men and women but you deny they have any impact on career choices.
Qui-Gon Jinn thought the same thing about a young boy named Anne.
For context, I am a straight white male not of any real faith but lean right of center. I believe in leveling the field and eliminating obstacles to allow people to find their own path. I don't care what they want to do with their life from music, engineering, medical, service or what not. I have worked with many many male and several female engineers and have found each brings very different strengths to their positions. Some of the worst engineers I have worked with have been men but there have been 10X more of them exposure wise. The last project I led, my strongest team member (I managed a 12 person team) was a female engineer that once I persuaded her to take ownership, exceeded all expectations. What she lacked in technical capabilities she more than made up with in conscientiousness. My two strongest technical people, both male, were the hardest to keep on track and on schedule.
Like you, this is antidotal.
How about ending discrimination?
It has been proven to exist, and still exists.
Women and minorities always have to put extra effort to prove they do indeed have the merit to do the job. This should let them focus on their product, not convincing people what is taken for granted with men.
Last edited:
I'm glad this thread is helping me add to my list. So many misogynistic lurkers. Y'all are scary.
Well, I for one have been waiting for a workshop now that I’m a novice creator. But because I’m a man, I have to go somewhere else. It’s still a form of discrimination. I understand that there’s a lack of females in the industry. Maybe we should find out why that is! What facts are out on why there are more men then women in this field? Let’s keep the conversation simple and please use facts to prove your points. No need to be super Agro either. Don’t be-little to make a point either.
Unless you have founded or are CEO of a company you won't be invited anyway..
Alligator tears are two doors down on the left
I'm gonna apply.
I identify as a woman.
- Bubba
Seriously, when are we gonna see things like that from female dominated industries? When will the attack on males stop?
I identify as a woman.
- Bubba
Seriously, when are we gonna see things like that from female dominated industries? When will the attack on males stop?
Specifically, the "natural sex difference" is women won't put up with the abominable working conditions in the tech industry. There were more women in tech when I started in the late 1980s than today. Working conditions continue to devolve yet we see no effort to address this sad trend. No tech company will publish their employee satisfaction surveys because it would be to damaging to their reputation.
Tech companies have continued to ignore poor working conditions because the US Government lets them have an endless supply of H1-B visas to bring in cheap labor from foreign $h1t3 holes. Yes 1nd1@ is a $h1t3 hole, if you take offense to this then put your money where your mouth is and go back there to work!
One of Facebook's ill conceived (ha) "solutions" to attract more women is adding embryo storage to their healthcare benefits. I wonder if they give an informative presentation about how that works to the 12 year old girls who show up to "take your daughter to work" day at Facebook: "we stick a huge a$$ needle into your belly and suck out...." Really?
or:
https://www.seattletimes.com/busine...t-women-at-microsoft-face-and-why-many-leave/
Notice the part how Microsoft "lets women stay in technical roles". Maybe if Microsoft let both men AND women stay in technical roles they wouldn't have produced such a long list of failures including Zune, Microsoft Phone, etc.... The same applies to other tech companies at the moment - APPL certainly has a list of critical product missteps including the Mac Pro and other missed refresh/updates. Hmmm.... Just fire all the old & experienced engineers and hire young women! That will solve everything!
The bear is hungry for tech stocks at the moment. Maybe people are finally waking up to the charade.
"even out decades of oppression."... you're dreaming mate. No woman in America or Australia is more disadvantaged than any other male from the same economic background.