Apple Launches 'OS X Server' for Mountain Lion for $19.99

[nickn]

Mountain Lion server got rid of DHCP server for some reason I can't fathom.

Lately, Apple has basically managed to ruin every pro application they sell. I am not even remotely surprised they did that.

so... ML Server roundup:

No more Server Admin, NAT, DHCP(!), Firewall, XGrid

No more Server Tools, therefore Workgroup Manager, so you have to rely on Profile Manager to manage your ML clients... let's hope the damn thing works (i.e it's not Lion)

Server Image Utility (SIU) seems unable to make the "combined"installer for a server as per the previous way (http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4746)

Everything is now in Server.app... Welcome to The Fisher-Price guide to servers... except there's no DHCP so "small businesses" et al will have to rely on their router for that...


I'm in the same boat... no ML server for me because our Xserve's don't have GFX cards... never mind the fact that half the crap on Lion doesn't work and we were waiting for the upgrade... it's throw the Xserve in the bin.

To add insult to injury, Apple include "XSan 3" as a main feature of ML server, which is just some marketing prick writing down things on a website... a joke

Welcome to the Apple experience! Frankly, it looks like Apple doesn't seem to care about OS X server anymore. Look at the reviews of OS X server on the App store. Almost every reviewer gave it one star... For real server work, I would suggest Linux.

 

[impierced]

I keep seeing people say this everywhere-- you'd think people trying to manage a server would be cautious enough to read the knowledge base:

DHCP and NAT are handled via System Preferences. ipfw is deprecated but still retains your Lion rules and can be managed by command line or 3rd party front end.

You'd think people tying to make a point would actually read what other people type, let's take again what I said...

"Server.app doesn't have DHCP, NAT, or Firewall..."


Please tell me exactly how that's not factually correct?

The context of my point was that Apple's own documentation from within Server.app implies that Server Admin.app exists for Mountain Lion, which is does not.

But, to your point that DHCP, NAT, and Firewall are all there just in different places... that's like saying Outlook for Mac is the same as Outlook for Windows.

 

[Analog Kid]

You'd think people tying to make a point would actually read what other people type, let's take again what I said...

"Server.app doesn't have DHCP, NAT, or Firewall..."


Please tell me exactly how that's not factually correct?

The context of my point was that Apple's own documentation from within Server.app implies that Server Admin.app exists for Mountain Lion, which is does not.

But, to your point that DHCP, NAT, and Firewall are all there just in different places... that's like saying Outlook for Mac is the same as Outlook for Windows.

Not to keep bickering, but a careful read of my comment shows that, while I excerpted your comment as the first example in the thread, I was addressing "people" plural not you specifically-- I've seen a dozen or so people railing about no DHCP across this thread and other sources. I'd say half or more of them follow up by deciding that it's easier to switch vendors than to read the support articles.

I find that strange as it wasn't hard to find. It's the article titled-- OS X Server: Upgrade and Migration (Learn how to upgrade or migrate to OS X Server on Mountain Lion from Lion Server or Mac OS X Server v10.6 Snow Leopard.)

The context of your point suggested that you were trying to turn on DHCP, had gone to the help file, and were stymied by a bug in the doc. The KB article resolved that confusion.

I guess if your purpose was just to complain then I wasn't terribly helpful. I apologize for that-- you were factually correct and your complaints were well founded.

 

[impierced]

Not to keep bickering, but a careful read of my comment shows that, while I excerpted your comment as the first example in the thread, I was addressing "people" plural not you specifically-- I've seen a dozen or so people railing about no DHCP across this thread and other sources. I'd say half or more of them follow up by deciding that it's easier to switch vendors than to read the support articles.

I find that strange as it wasn't hard to find. It's the article titled-- OS X Server: Upgrade and Migration (Learn how to upgrade or migrate to OS X Server on Mountain Lion from Lion Server or Mac OS X Server v10.6 Snow Leopard.)

The context of your point suggested that you were trying to turn on DHCP, had gone to the help file, and were stymied by a bug in the doc. The KB article resolved that confusion.

I guess if your purpose was just to complain then I wasn't terribly helpful. I apologize for that-- you were factually correct and your complaints were well founded.

I don't think I was stymied. More specifically, I was hopeful that Apple would do like they did with Lion Server and later release both Server Admin and Workgroup Manager. Apple did in fact release the latter.

I used Apple's built-in help file as well as their online 10.8 server administration guide. Guess I should've cross referenced it with their KB.

Apple's current implementation of DCHP and Firewall within their server platform is a joke. Not only in comparison to other platforms, but to their own historical server releases. Forgive me for being disappointed.

 

[funkboy]

upgrade is cheap

Are you folks seriously griping about a $20 upgrade fee for a product that was $1000 for an unlimited-seat license not that long ago?

Whine about the removal of functionality from Server if you wish (I have), but not about the price.

 

[Mr-Stabby]

Has anyone tried putting 'ML Server' on a 2008 XServe, even by cloning an existing installation rather then straight installing? The only reason i can see that it's not supported is the graphics card. Since most of the time you don't even use the screen on an XServe, why the hell is it not supported? 2007 iMacs are supported for gods sake and the XServe 2008 kicks not only that machines ass, but most new Macs too!

I also find it ominous that they've removed the 'Dedicate system resources to Server' tickbox in Server.app.


The lack of a GUI DHCP Service doesn't annoy me personally, though i can see why it annoys other people. However i'm surprised it's not there because the Server.app screenshots from the Apple website actually showed it as a listed service, though they've since changed them. What's more annoying is that NetInstall when activated now seems to turn on a background DHCP service by default. When you're using NetInstall on a already perfectly setup network with DHCP provided elsewhere, you can imagine the problems of a random other DHCP Server appearing in the mix without you even knowing about it!

 

[talmy]

Has anyone tried putting 'ML Server' on a 2008 XServe, even by cloning an existing installation rather then straight installing?

Considering all that has been lost in OS X Server, why would you want to do that?

 

[Dekema2]

WTF?

Mac OS X Server use to be $499 or something.

Now it's $39.98 ($19.99 + $19.99). Hardly "twice as much".

The price isn't the issue. The fact that 75% of the Server OS had been destroyed since 10.6 is the issue. Apple's wonderful OS X Server "upgrades and enhancements" made it an easy decision for us to start swapping our Xserves with Dell PowerEdge servers loaded with Linux or Windows.

I'm a new kid around this area, could someone tell me some of the changes from back then? That was when I got my 1st Mac.

 

[Mr-Stabby]

Considering all that has been lost in OS X Server, why would you want to do that?

Some of us have to, to support 10.8 Macs and iOS devices until we find a better alternative

 

[Major.Robto]

If you only have one mac, if you install the server app, is the mac still usable as a computer? I'd like to have a VPN running for mobile access over wifi.

yeah it would work great for that, but you can also find other free vpn soulotions if you loko hardenough.

 

[afd]

Thanks for reply, I've found a couple of cheap issh VPN enablers that look as if they should be what I'm looking for and Have looked at open VPN but have been put off by my own lack of understanding.

 

[jwdsail]

Well that sux to us people who own the server edition of the Mac mini and now we have to pay twice as much to keep it a server!

I'm sorry, maybe I'm just getting old, or have had way too long a week this past week, but I've got a rant to go on...

"Sux"???

First, the upgrade from Mtn Lion to Mtn Lion Server is half the price of the upgrade from Lion to Lion Server.

Second, do you have any clue how much MacOS X Server (unlimited clients) used to cost??? More than the Mac Mini! Leopard Server (unlimited) cost $999.99!

Sucks??? What are you on, and did you bring enough to share with the rest of the class???? I want to see the color of the sky in your world!

And, I'm sorry, but if any of you are really seriously rolling out Mtn Lion and Mtn Lion server this soon, without testing, without waiting and reading.. Just unbelievable.. Pretty sure many of these issues will be resolved by the 10.8.1 server update.

And, rather than running around like Chicken Littles, yelling here, where it will do no good maybe go to www.apple.com/feedback and tell Apple directly?

And git off my lawn!


Damn kids.

 

[northernbaldy]

That's it! I can't be arsed running my server any more
Every ****ing release of server and they take something out of it! Before long it won't have any fuctionality at all!

I'll save myself some cash and get rid of my staic IP too

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Second, do you have any clue how much MacOS X Server (unlimited clients) used to cost??? More than the Mac Mini! Leopard Server (unlimited) cost $999.99!

Yeah, I was amazed when the Server-specific Mini came out, because it was the same cost as the server OS itself had been one version prior. You got A Mac Mini, fully loaded, for $99 less than loading up the standard Mini (and got a second hard drive instead of the optical drive, which wasn't available on the standard Mini at any price at the time.) And you got the Server OS thrown in 'for free', when that cost $500 on its own! (And, again, the prior version of the server OS had cost the same as the computer itself.)

 

[Yebubbleman]

The only real issue as far as pricing is concerned here is that the cost of OS X Server has dropped from $1000 in 10.5, to $500 in 10.6, to $80 ($50 for the Lion Server app and $30 for the Install Lion app), to $40 ($20 for the "OS X Server app" and $20 for the Install Mountain Lion app), while the cost of the Mac mini Server that once came with Snow Leopard Server has remained the same. At one point, $999 was a great bargain for a Mac mini with OS X Server. Now, it's not that good of a bargain, especially with only a 2.0 GHz Quad-Core Sandy Bridge Mobile CPU that, even for Sandy Bridge Mobile-equpped Macs, isn't all that impressive.

Otherwise, it is incredibly sad to see Apple dumbing down their Server OS faster and sooner than is appropriate. Windows 8 Server is making appropriate steps in the direction of user-friendliness, a trend that I feel will likely continue in Server OSes over the next few years; but none of those steps are as inappropriately drastic and premature as those being made in this release of OS X Server.

 

[jmggs]

Lol think is so stupid the apple position about servers! I guess in Apple headquarters they use Windows Server or Linux with HP, Dell and Sun Servers. Or they don't use servers to manage the clients?!?
Does anybody known how Apple manage their clients?

Lol

 

[Major.Robto]

Lol think is so stupid the apple position about servers! I guess in Apple headquarters they use Windows Server or Linux with HP, Dell and Sun Servers. Or they don't use servers to manage the clients?!?
Does anybody known how Apple manage their clients?

Lol

I guess a moddified osx server, with server admin tools .ect why would they use windows servers? apple does not like microsoft so why would they even pay for windows server then? also apple has that whole Icloud **** going, windows does not work with it.

 

[throAU]

Lately, Apple has basically managed to ruin every pro application they sell. I am not even remotely surprised they did that.



Welcome to the Apple experience! Frankly, it looks like Apple doesn't seem to care about OS X server anymore. Look at the reviews of OS X server on the App store. Almost every reviewer gave it one star... For real server work, I would suggest Linux.

Well, to be honest it is a bit of a joke. The only thing i use server for is a time machine backup location, because I have a spare mini and prefer using that to a time capsule....

 

[Major.Robto]

.. For real server work, I would suggest Linux.

Yeah okay use your linux.

Linux is such a pain in the ass to get to work.

I was useing a linux server for a while and it just became such a pain,
You have to install everything your self,

There is no "server" linux ment for home users


OSX server does have its uses for home networks. Not big places where linux can work when enough nerds and geeks work on it.


OSX Server is good for a timemacheen server. its also good for file sharing and emulating the icloud if you wish,

it can also host a website.


It may be lacking dchp and that fun stuff, but think, what home user would need that? When even small company needs that super advance stuff?


We all have routers now so there is no real need to give out dchp licences, There is no need to make a server a firewall when your router does that,


Apple is no hiting the super big companys they are only hitting the small ones and the home advace users.

 

[etsi]

There are some easy ways, check for example openmediavault.

It's not that hard to setup debian+virtualmin as well.

 

[Major.Robto]

There are some easy ways, check for example openmediavault.

It's not that hard to setup debian+virtualmin as well.

Well I just dont want to use linux, I know many people also who will not use it, if something breaks its way to confusing to fix it, I dont like messing with comand lines, its way over my head and I dont want to learn something new,

I like osx server, so why should I change?

 

[foodog]

I have two Mac (2009 MBP and 2011 MacMini Server) that link to the same apple ID account. Do I need to paid $40 for the server and mountain lion for the MacMini server and another $20 for mountain lion on MBP? Or the $20 upgrade of mountain lion will work on both the MacMini and MBP in one shot and just need to pay the additional $20 for the server function on the MacMini?

Thanks

$20 for ML (will work for both machines) $20 for the server.

 

[KnightWRX]

except there's no DHCP so "small businesses" et al will have to rely on their router for that...

Hire actual UNIX people that know what they are doing ?

$ sudo port search dhcpd
dhcp @4.1-ESV-R4 (net)
    ISC dhcpd server

Was there ever even a need to buy OS X Server to run DHCP/DNS services from OS X ?

Anyway, just sidegrade to a Linux distribution and never look back.

 

[KnightWRX]

Lol think is so stupid the apple position about servers! I guess in Apple headquarters they use Windows Server or Linux with HP, Dell and Sun Servers. Or they don't use servers to manage the clients?!?
Does anybody known how Apple manage their clients?

They use Solaris as indicated by this job posting

Then they also have ESXi hosts and RedHat boxes.

Finally, we learn they love Veritas Cluster Service, Oracle RDBMS and use Solaris 10 and RHEL 5 specifically here. They seem to run Nagios to monitor it too, and from other postings, have Tomcat/Apache installations running MySQL for the backends in certain departments (I think it was Marcom, their marketing department and Filemaker Inc.).

----------

Well I just dont want to use linux, I know many people also who will not use it, if something breaks its way to confusing to fix it, I dont like messing with comand lines, its way over my head and I dont want to learn something new,

I like osx server, so why should I change?

Yeah, learning something new is bad.

Linux is darn easy to work with, much easier to troubleshoot if it breaks (instead of hiding all the details under GUIs that just don't work when something is broken, you get nitty & gritty details like actual error messages and you can check configuration files! oh the horror!)

OS X server is a pain if you ask me, everything is hidden, the user gets charged money for what is essentially a bunch of GUIs over open source components, and when something breaks, you're left about clueless about what is going on (because I'm sure you wouldn't even know where to read messages logged with syslog(), or what a syslog facility even is...).

It's a good thing Linux is great for the rest of us that actually can manage to learn a few things on the side (or use these things professionally day-in/day-out).

 

[jmggs]

I guess a moddified osx server, with server admin tools .ect why would they use windows servers? apple does not like microsoft so why would they even pay for windows server then? also apple has that whole Icloud **** going, windows does not work with it.

They use windows in the stores LCD's