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The question is: Did they change something within the keyboard (even 2017!), so that they got rid of the design flaw? Maybe I should just get the keyboard swapped.

hmmm... seems like they released the program after figuring out the problem...
 
I’m still angry about getting a $400 bill for a sticky b key of my 2016 TouchBar MBP! Finally they just cleaned the keyboard for me (free). They could have replaced it for me.
 
Gives me a little more confidence that Apple will have fixed the reliability issues when new models make an appearance hopefully later this year. Either with a new keyboard component or minor redesign of the entire notebook.
 
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Free repair for four years after date of purchase is bare minimum? That seems generous to me. I cold be wrong? My mid-2011 iMac had a problem with its video card and I had it repaired for free in 2015. That's pretty great. Don't get me wrong, it would be preferable if they didn't screw it up in the first place, but mistakes happen. It's how companies handle screwups that I most care about.
In this case my issue is not so much what they have done to handle it as much as how long they have taken to do it, the fact it’s only belatedly turned up after the looming threat of a potentially very embarrassing class action lawsuit, and the fact their initial response was to replace the faulty part under warranty with a component just as likely to fail again, and then charge people several hundred $ to replace the entire topcase when it failed out of warranty - the full price of a topcase with all the expensive logic because they designed a machine with a keyboard that’s impossible to remove without completely trashing it! So when I say this is bare minimum, I feel this really is how they should have responded to this issue in the first place, certainly upon launching the 2017 models and learning their ‘quick fix’ hadn’t worked - good service would have been proactively waiving repair fees, not waiting a year and after the threat of being sued finally caving in. As with everything YMMV but I was just so disgusted with their initial response this feels adequate, not great
 
Besides 1 extra year for free repairing, what are the benefits for those who bought Apple Care?

Easier time getting the thing fixed without having to explain anything, I guess. Also, hopefully this means Apple will try to make the replacements more reliable.
 
For me 4 years is not enough.
IMO it should run until the machines are made obsolete (7 years) - that doesn’t seem unreasonable as that’s the period they give you to get most components repaired if they fail and if these keyboards can fail repeatedly over the life of the product, then that’s the amount of time you’d expect to be able to use it
 
Also the 2019 models have caused no problems yet.

You're wrong. I had one. It spontaneously combusted and got so hot it vaporized completely so I can't prove that there were problems with it, but believe me. It was a lemon. What's up with that Cupertino?
[doublepost=1529741961][/doublepost]
Finally they just cleaned the keyboard for me (free). They could have replaced it for me.

I'm not convinced that a replacement is always the best route to go. I keep hearing complaints about people who are on their 4th keyboard or something outlandish like that. If you'e struck out 4 out of 4 times, I have doubts that the next time's going to be a charm.

My keyboard jammed numerous times in the first year that I had it, but I decided to just use an external keyboard and hope that the problems would go away on their own with repeated use. In my case, they did. After a full year of use, my MBP keyboard actually works better than it did in its first year.

It still doesn't have my full confidence to be honest, but whatever it was that was causing the jams in the first year seems to have loosened up.
 
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so this mean they will replace the keyboard with an entirely new one that will no longer fails? and this new keyboard will be in the upcoming MBP models in the fall ?
or they will replace with the same 2017 keyboard?
 
Given that they of course knew there was a problem with the new keyboards before launch.
And yes of course they did.
You cannot in any way design and test a item that's going to be sold to tens of millions all around the world, and NOT put them through all sorts of tests.
Clean office, Beach, building site, street use, smoke, dust, water.

But it's not till very late in the day, and way too late to do anything about it, that actual reality of real world mass customers comes back can you accurately gauges this problem.

So it's a gamble, or lets say calculation.

Every item in a macbook has issues in some form or another, it's how those issues surface or don't during the natural lifespan of a product.
You don't wish (Apple don't wish) to over engineer a product and throw extra dollars at it to make it better than it needs to be.

It needs to be JUST GOOD ENOUGH to last JUST LONG ENOUGH that a typical person would reasonable expect it to under what one would consider typical conditions.

A balancing act.

I'm sure we can all understand this.
Additionally, all understand that something that works perfect in-house in a controlled testing lab, may not perform quite the same in the real world in the hands of real consumers.

Hence why Apple must put early prototype products to a select few to actually use in the real world as a last minute test to see if there are any glaring issues before the set design in stone and can't be changed.

One can only assume when Apple found the keys were sticking, the recorded use from the tester was considered beyond normal, or that, from the tests carried out, over the time the tests could be practically run for, the keys that did stick were of a low enough percentage that they deemed it good enough to stamp APPROVED on that design and lock it down for mass production.

The one great thing about all of these complaints and law suits is that, it can only improve future products, as no company is going to wish to produce the NEXT model, and have the press full of stories and articles saying how they are again fitting the bad products.

Every fail and recall, will lead to that area being improved for the next range of models.

Of course, the next range will probably have their own new issues of course!

But one can only hope that, given more press coverage and more people eager to go to court, and more expense for recalls, their criteria for allowing anything to pass quality control and make it into mass production should get better and better each time.

It is however a worry that money men, and "visual designers" tend to over-rule the mechanical designers at Apple, and that something it made worse than it could be. and there is NO arguing about that, simply down to some cost saving or design aspects.

Apple computers could be WAYYYYYYYYYYY better as actual computers if the money/design people came further down the chain than they do these days.
You'd never fit a poor GPU, and run a system on the edge of thermal throttling a lot of the time, and have storage units running toasty a lot of the time, due to lack of cooling, simply to make something that had no need to be thinner, thinner..... iMac.
 
Given that they of course knew there was a problem with the new keyboards before launch.
And yes of course they did.
You cannot in any way design and test a item that's going to be sold to tens of millions all around the world, and NOT put them through all sorts of tests.
Clean office, Beach, building site, street use, smoke, dust, water.

But it's not till very late in the day, and way too late to do anything about it, that actual reality of real world mass customers comes back can you accurately gauges this problem.

So it's a gamble, or lets say calculation.

Every item in a macbook has issues in some form or another, it's how those issues surface or don't during the natural lifespan of a product.
You don't wish (Apple don't wish) to over engineer a product and throw extra dollars at it to make it better than it needs to be.

It needs to be JUST GOOD ENOUGH to last JUST LONG ENOUGH that a typical person would reasonable expect it to under what one would consider typical conditions.

A balancing act.

I'm sure we can all understand this.
Additionally, all understand that something that works perfect in-house in a controlled testing lab, may not perform quite the same in the real world in the hands of real consumers.

Hence why Apple must put early prototype products to a select few to actually use in the real world as a last minute test to see if there are any glaring issues before the set design in stone and can't be changed.

One can only assume when Apple found the keys were sticking, the recorded use from the tester was considered beyond normal, or that, from the tests carried out, over the time the tests could be practically run for, the keys that did stick were of a low enough percentage that they deemed it good enough to stamp APPROVED on that design and lock it down for mass production.

The one great thing about all of these complaints and law suits is that, it can only improve future products, as no company is going to wish to produce the NEXT model, and have the press full of stories and articles saying how they are again fitting the bad products.

Every fail and recall, will lead to that area being improved for the next range of models.

Of course, the next range will probably have their own new issues of course!

But one can only hope that, given more press coverage and more people eager to go to court, and more expense for recalls, their criteria for allowing anything to pass quality control and make it into mass production should get better and better each time.

It is however a worry that money men, and "visual designers" tend to over-rule the mechanical designers at Apple, and that something it made worse than it could be. and there is NO arguing about that, simply down to some cost saving or design aspects.

Apple computers could be WAYYYYYYYYYYY better as actual computers if the money/design people came further down the chain than they do these days.
You'd never fit a poor GPU, and run a system on the edge of thermal throttling a lot of the time, and have storage units running toasty a lot of the time, due to lack of cooling, simply to make something that had no need to be thinner, thinner..... iMac.

Love your post!

Really agree - it's Apple's obsession with making its products as thin as it can and making them into sealed units with soldered in components etc., that are causing them issues.

All of this is perfectly solvable if they let their products 'breath' a little (i.e. make them less thin) and for anything with 'Pro' in the title (and the iMac) let people easily replace the RAM and SSD.

One final thing:

It seems like Apple is going to make ARM Macs and I think that that is a very good thing for lots of reasons (we'll get annually updated product lines, I should think; the machines should be cheaper due to shared component costs with iOS etc.).

However, I suspect that their plan will be to create machines with the same approach as the iPad - all components soldered into an integrated motherboard & not user replaceable.

Personally, I'm OK if this is a machine like the MacBook, which has never been meant as a high performance machine.

I won't be OK with the iMac becoming like this - which I suspect is Apple's plan ('it's even thinner!').

The Mac mini I suspect is going to be shrunk too and be built in a similar way to Apple TV.

Finally I suspect with the upset over the last 18 months, that things are about to get a lot better for any machine that has 'pro' in its title.
 
Gives me a little more confidence that Apple will have fixed the reliability issues when new models make an appearance hopefully later this year. Either with a new keyboard component or minor redesign of the entire notebook.
Sounds like treating just symptoms while root cause analysis is needed.
Rather get those who are/were responsible for this disfunctional/iviot design forcefully removed - to make sure this NEVER happens again
All honorary memberships, memorial books & academic parafernalia to be withdrawn.
Excess Bentley & Ferrari staff cars to be returned monday morning 8.30
 
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If you want to laugh just go over to iMore for some pearls of wisdom from the Apple shill Rene Ritchie....

"It's my understanding that when Apple states a small percentage of customers, the company really means a small percentage of customers. I don't want to speculate as to whether negative social sentiment provoked a response sooner than what the raw numbers would otherwise have mandated, but I wouldn't be shocked if that were the case — Apple wants to keep current customers happy so they remain future customers as well."

It will interesting to see what Apple are replacing the faulty keyboards with; I had my 2016 done last month and it was replaced with a 2017 keyboard. I can't imagine Apple would start a warranty replacement without having a re-design they are confident will properly fix the problem, otherwise they are creating a lot of work for themselves.
 
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There's a large cadre of people in this thread that actually believe Apple's stance on this is commendable: guys, they've allowed this to fester for YEARS and you're giving them a pass?

If Apple hit you over the head with a 2x4 would you thank them and then proceed to comment on how attractive the wood is?
 
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What about people who got Apple Care specifically for faulty keyboards. Do they get a refund ?
 
Surprise, surprise. There IS something wrong with the keyboards like we all knew there was. Typical Apple - blame their customers, blame their users blame EVERYBODY else but their poor design choices.

The worst part were the fanbois denying the existence and defending Apple every time someone legitimately complained. “ho ho mine runs perfect from day one, best machine ever screw you lier ho ho”
 
It will interesting to see what Apple are replacing the faulty keyboards with; I had my 2016 done last month and it was replaced with a 2017 keyboard. I can't imagine Apple would start a warranty replacement without having a re-design they are confident will properly fix the problem, otherwise they are creating a lot of work for themselves.
You 'd be surprised to learn how much time and capital gets lost by keeping some bozo's in place that are beyond judgement
 
[*]MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015)
[*]MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2016)
[*]MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, 2017)
[*]MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
[*]MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
[*]MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2016, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
[*]MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2017, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports)
[*]MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2016)
[*]MacBook Pro (15-inch, 2017)


SMALL PERCENTAGE ----- JUST LOL
 
Call me unimpressed. I had two of the MBPs and both had faulty keyboards. Went back to the previous model and I can actually type without worrying that a letters missed.

Replacing a defective part with a defective part shows that Apple has their heads firmly planted in the sand. I get the design was poor, so why not fix it? Simple, form over function and profit over customer satisfaction.

Apple is allowed to build faulty devices, happens to everyone. It’s what you do with issues that defines you. This remains a huge fail and the news was deliberately released on a Friday.
 
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