Apple Looking Into Limited Reports of T2-Related Kernel Panics on New MacBook Pro and iMac Pro

[BWhaler]

It’s getting risky buying Apple hardware and installing rhe first few versions of Apple software.

They don’t even dare say, “it just works” at keynotes anymore. I suspect their marketing knows how bad things have become.

 

[Yebubbleman]

What are some of the reasons people don't like the T2 chip?

1. The Secure Boot options are not fantastic as Apple, by default, ships the machines so that they can only load the version of macOS that they're running or the current. Yes, this can be changed, but, just as easily, Apple could quietly slip in a firmware update that disables the ability to change this default, rendering the ability to install ANY supported version of macOS (and not just the current one) moot. I hate this practice on iOS, but it's always been that way, so, I'm sucking it up. For macOS, it'd be inexcusable. So, really, I hate the precedent being set here.

2. Mandatory drive encryption. I get it, security is awesome. But if I'm losing my ability to recover data from my SSDs just because the T2 is now the SSD controller, that's SERIOUSLY not cool. The fact that it's forced upon me isn't great. Professionals want the ability to make these decisions; not to have Apple make them for us.

3. bridgeOS/iBridge (which makes this particular complaint extend to the T1 as well). Disk Utility did get a massive overhaul in El Capitan and that did get furthered with Sierra and High Sierra. And I get that APFS makes it so that I will likely handle the formatting and repartitioning of my drives differently, but making it so that I can't clone my machine if I so desired without bricking the embedded OS that runs on the T1 and T2 and therefore the Touch Bar itself is stupid.

 

[Kingcr]

On balance I agree with this, but it seems that there is no way to export data if the logic board fails, regardless of whether the T2 was the culprit.

Sad but true from what we know so far. But the crux of the matter in this instance is Apple’s decision to remove the recovery port. The T2 can still work as a simple controller it seems - e.g. target disk mode still works from what I’ve read. So we simply don’t know why they removed the port.

 

[otternonsense]

I'm old enough to remember the days when "it just worked".

 

[CWallace]

On balance I agree with this, but it seems that there is no way to export data if the logic board fails, regardless of whether the T2 was the culprit.

Sad but true from what we know so far. But the crux of the matter in this instance is Apple’s decision to remove the recovery port. The T2 can still work as a simple controller it seems - e.g. target disk mode still works from what I’ve read. So we simply don’t know why they removed the port.

It is because the T2 stores the encryption/decryption key in itself and it sounds like each T2 chip is unique to it's attached logic board. So if the T2 chip or the logic board it is part of fails, the key is unrecoverable and so if the data.

It's like using FileVault when the recovery partition holding the key becomes corrupted and you do not remember your Recovery Key. At that point, the data is inaccessible.

 

[NT1440]

So, it could be a handful of users, but judging from this and other threads on other sites, it's enough to keep my $3500+ in my pocket. I've been waiting for months for the new 2018s to arrive, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend this now if this is a problem.

So wait a couple of weeks. There’s enough members here with these machines to see if it’s actually a widespread problem or if it’s something that’s going to be resolved with a quick update.

 

[curtvaughan]

Express this sentiment directly to Apple through any and all available channels including https://www.apple.com/feedback/ it helps all of us.

Perhaps tl;dr, but if you are concerned with the directions Apple hardware have taken of late:

 

[Val-kyrie]

This is inaccurate. The T2 itself runs BridgeOS as an embedded operating system.



While I agree that problems with the T2 are worrisome as it is a critical chip, a T2 failure is practically no worse than the failure of a typical SSD controller in terms of losing data.

So does a failure of the T2 chip require a replacement of the entire top case?

 

[Analog Kid]

A kernel panic is just a bug that crashes the kernel rather than an application. Sometimes these are triggered by bad hardware, but not necessarily. I'm guessing the hardware is fine and there's a driver bug somewhere. This makes it more of a pain to recover from, but not any harder to fix.

I get far fewer of them these days than I did in the earlier days of OS X. I suspect it's because of how kernel extensions are handled now.

One issue after another after another...

Did you expect them in some other order?

 

[sinoka56]

for people saying that not using industry standard components removes the risk of their bugs, by not using industry standard components you introduce new more widely untested bugs like this one

 

[cire1244]

Interesting. I have a 2017 tMBP and had a kernel panic this morning. Probably the 3rd or 4th in the 1.5 years I've had it. Gonna just chalk it up to a coincidence rather than some related OS issue, I guess.

 

[BroTim52]

Something doesn't seem right about all these complaints?? I agree the patch to the firmware really worked, but it seems there is a hidden agenda with all these complaints against Apple..

 

[Frank Dalton]

Something doesn't seem right about all these complaints?? I agree the patch to the firmware really worked, but it seems there is a hidden agenda with all these complaints against Apple..

What agenda would a conspiracy of people lying about kernel panics serve?

 

[dspdoc]

Something doesn't seem right about all these complaints?? I agree the patch to the firmware really worked, but it seems there is a hidden agenda with all these complaints against Apple..

I can tell you I had kernel panic on my brand new 2018 MBP today. No hidden agenda here. Totally bummed with the seemingly lacking QC at Apple lately. And I am an Apple fan!

 

[123]

Apple is needlessly complicating things with these custom specialized chips. What's wrong with separate, reliable SMC's, SSD controllers, audio controllers?

They cost pennies on the dollar, and have never caused issues in the past.

You can't prevent your customers from using their machines as they please.

 

[rumplestiltskin]

Tim, take your T2 and...

...please remove it from all the Macs.

(Go ahead; you thought it, too.)

 

[Black Tiger]

One issue after another after another...

One issue FIXED after another. Unlike other oems where you are SOL.

 

[greenmeanie]

Come on guys it will just be another firm ware update lol.

 

[Tech198]

Apple is needlessly complicating things with these custom specialized chips. What's wrong with separate, reliable SMC's, SSD controllers, audio controllers?

They cost pennies on the dollar, and have never caused issues in the past.

too many chips on one single board.. you'd run outta room, and if generate much more heat.

Their would already be "potential" issues with CPU going up under normal conditions.,,, no one wants to make it worse.

Although separate chips would be better for troubleshooting. Besides, that's how every manufacture does it these days all separate included. in one chip, except PC desktop's really.

 

[kryptticAZ]

Something doesn't seem right about all these complaints?? I agree the patch to the firmware really worked, but it seems there is a hidden agenda with all these complaints against Apple..

LOL. I've been a die-hard Apple fan since my original Powermac 6500. No hidden agenda here! Just a $4800 computer that crashed multiple times right out of the box.

 

[dspdoc]

I have some really bad news for everyone. Apple has done something that has screwed these new MBPs up so bad that you cannot do a clean install of the OS. It gets stuck in a perpetual loop. I dare anyone to try. My machine is being returned tomorrow for a refund. I am beside myself with disgust over this latest fiasco of a release. A train wreck from day one.

 

[MDF314159265]

The kernel is panicking?

 

[macpcf]

I have some really bad news for everyone. Apple has done something that has screwed these new MBPs up so bad that you cannot do a clean install of the OS. It gets stuck in a perpetual loop. I dare anyone to try. My machine is being returned tomorrow for a refund. I am beside myself with disgust over this latest fiasco of a release. A train wreck from day one.

Thats really bad

 

[dspdoc]

Thats really bad

Horrendously bad. Does anyone have any clue what is going on with Apple? I don’t mean to be one of those guys that brings Steve up, but he would of seriously lost his $h1t over this and fired people. He would of locked engineers in a room for a week until they sorted all this out. First we have throttlegate and now we have t2gate and some weird issue in which you cannot do a clean install of macOS on the new MBPs. I’m appalled and so terribly disappointed.

 

[Acidsplat]

Horrendously bad. Does anyone have any clue what is going on with Apple? I don’t mean to be one of those guys that brings Steve up, but he would of seriously lost his $h1t over this and fired people. He would of locked engineers in a room for a week until they sorted all this out. First we have throttlegate and now we have t2gate and some weird issue in which you cannot do a clean install of macOS on the new MBPs. I’m appalled and so terribly disappointed.

It's what happens when you leave a bean counter in charge for 7 years.