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Hooray for intentionally vague wording that could easily be interpreted either way.
well you can read it in multiple languages if you want
but i like point 6.
The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users who avail themselves of the rights or choices laid down in Articles 5, 6 and 7, or make the exercise of those rights or choices unduly difficult, including by offering choices to the end-user in a non-neutral manner, or by subverting end users’ or business users' autonomy, decision-making, or free choice via the structure, design, function or manner of operation of a user interface or a part thereof.
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well you can read it in multiple languages if you want
but i like point 6.
The gatekeeper shall not degrade the conditions or quality of any of the core platform services provided to business users or end users who avail themselves of the rights or choices laid down in Articles 5, 6 and 7, or make the exercise of those rights or choices unduly difficult, including by offering choices to the end-user in a non-neutral manner, or by subverting end users’ or business users' autonomy, decision-making, or free choice via the structure, design, function or manner of operation of a user interface or a part thereof.
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What is undeniable is that Apple is still entitled to monetise its platform. How do you all propose that Apple bill developers then, while still adhering to the guidelines stated above? And please don’t say that Apple should just let developers keep 100% of revenue from sideloaded apps.

Else, if every single proposal by Apple gets shot down, then it just shows what a farce the whole DMA is.
 
What is undeniable is that Apple is still entitled to monetise its platform. How do you all propose that Apple bill developers then, while still adhering to the guidelines stated above? And please don’t say that Apple should just let developers keep 100% of revenue from sideloaded apps.

Else, if every single proposal by Apple gets shot down, then it just shows what a farce the whole DMA is.
Steam bills developers in the same manner as always: by offering a superior product that encourages them to utilize and pay for the service. Steam continues to take, I believe, a 30% fee and does not have a small business program. However, they permit developers to sell their keys and retain 100% of the profits, or to list their games in other stores without giving Steam any share. Valve is able to do this because they provide a storefront service that is superior to their market competitors.

And nothing prevents apple from doing the same. Valve had Steam operating with an 80% gross margin. In 2021, that number had dipped to around 75%. And they have enormous Steam sales multiple times a year that offers 50-90% sales. such as summer sale, winter sale, 4th of july sale etc etc

or as an example of Epic games. take a fee when using the serives, take a fee if you use their development tools, and take no fee if nothing by them is used.
 
Article 13, Anti-circumvention

The gatekeeper shall not engage in any behaviour that undermines effective compliance with the obligations of Articles 5, 6 and 7 regardless of whether that behaviour is of a contractual, commercial or technical nature, or of any other nature, or consists in the use of behavioural techniques or interface design.


Apple will try to argue CTF isn't a "behaviour that undermines effective compliance," but the EU courts will probably rule otherwise.

But the EU commission isn't investigation Apple for violating Article 13.

Also we're talking about something which should be "abundantly clear". To me this might not even reach the threshold of "clear" but more "likely".
 
It's extremely broad and vague.

It doesn't define 'undermine' or what is meant with 'effective'

Teleological Interpretation of Law and Its Relevance to the Digital Markets Act (DMA)

The teleological interpretation of law is a method that focuses on the purpose or objectives behind a law, rather than solely its literal wording. The term "teleological" comes from the Greek word "telos," meaning "end" or "goal." When judges or regulators apply a teleological approach, they seek to understand and enforce the law in a way that best fulfills its intended goals.

Key Aspects of Teleological Interpretation

  1. Purpose Over Text: This method emphasizes the underlying intent of the legislation over a strict, literal reading of its text. The goal is to apply the law in a way that aligns with its broader objectives.
  2. Flexibility: Teleological interpretation allows for greater flexibility in interpreting laws, particularly in complex or evolving contexts where rigid interpretation might lead to outcomes contrary to the law’s intended purpose.
  3. Contextual Understanding: This approach takes into account the broader context, including historical, social, economic, and political factors that influenced the law's creation.

Teleological Interpretation in the Context of the DMA

The Digital Markets Act (DMA) is designed to ensure fair competition and prevent large digital platforms, known as "gatekeepers," from abusing their dominant market positions. Given the rapid evolution of digital markets, a teleological interpretation is especially relevant to the DMA.

Application to the DMA

  1. Fulfilling the DMA’s Objectives:
    • The DMA aims to promote fair competition, protect consumer rights, and prevent anti-competitive practices by gatekeepers. A teleological reading of the DMA focuses on whether its rules effectively achieve these goals.
    • For example, if a gatekeeper technically complies with the DMA's requirements but still stifles competition or harms consumers, a teleological approach might interpret such actions as non-compliance, even if they technically adhere to the law.
  2. Addressing Undefined Terms:
    • Terms like "undermine" and "effective" are not explicitly defined in the DMA. A teleological interpretation would guide regulators and courts to interpret these terms in a way that aligns with the DMA’s purpose—promoting competition and preventing the abuse of market power.
    • For instance, if a gatekeeper's actions reduce the effectiveness of the DMA's regulations, a teleological reading would likely see this as undermining the law’s purpose, even if such actions are not explicitly prohibited by the text.
  3. Adapting to Technological Change:
    • The digital landscape is rapidly changing, and the DMA will need to be applied to new and unforeseen situations. A teleological interpretation allows the law to adapt by focusing on its underlying goals rather than being limited by specific wording that might not cover every future scenario.

Understanding 'Undermine' and 'Effective' in the DMA

  • 'Undermine': In the DMA, "undermine" generally refers to actions that weaken or reduce the intended impact of the regulation. For example, if a gatekeeper engages in practices that dilute the obligations imposed by the DMA, this could be seen as undermining its goals.
  • 'Effective': "Effective" in the DMA typically refers to whether the obligations and measures imposed on gatekeepers achieve the desired outcomes, such as promoting competition, protecting consumer rights, or ensuring fair access to digital markets.

Interpretation and Enforcement

The interpretation of these terms is subject to the European Commission’s discretion, judicial review, and enforcement actions. The broad language in the DMA is designed to address the complex and dynamic nature of digital markets, allowing regulators to adapt to different scenarios and evolving conditions, while requiring careful monitoring and interpretation in practice.

For context, the DMA’s introduction lists 109 points where these ideas are implicitly understood. The word "undermine" appears 17 times, and "effective" appears 56 times, highlighting their significance in the regulation.

Conclusion

Teleological interpretation is essential for the effective implementation of the DMA, ensuring that the law is applied in a way that truly achieves its intended outcomes. By focusing on the DMA's purpose—fostering fair competition and preventing gatekeeper abuses—this approach allows regulators and courts to interpret and enforce the law in a flexible, purpose-driven manner, which is particularly crucial in the rapidly evolving digital markets.
 
Steam bills developers in the same manner as always: by offering a superior product that encourages them to utilize and pay for the service. Steam continues to take, I believe, a 30% fee and does not have a small business program. However, they permit developers to sell their keys and retain 100% of the profits, or to list their games in other stores without giving Steam any share. Valve is able to do this because they provide a storefront service that is superior to their market competitors.

And nothing prevents apple from doing the same. Valve had Steam operating with an 80% gross margin. In 2021, that number had dipped to around 75%. And they have enormous Steam sales multiple times a year that offers 50-90% sales. such as summer sale, winter sale, 4th of july sale etc etc

or as an example of Epic games. take a fee when using the serives, take a fee if you use their development tools, and take no fee if nothing by them is used.
I am well aware of how Steam operates.

Let me repeat my point.

Right now, as stated, the DMA does not expressly prohibit Apple from charging developers who choose to sell their apps via third party app stores or via sideloading. I know there are provisions as cited above, but let's say that Apple is determined to collect something, what then is an acceptable, non-zero rate that everyone here can get on board with?

It's apparent that everyone here would rather Apple just ape Android and freely allow sideloading and third party app stores and not collect a cent (and maybe that's what the EU is trying to steer Apple towards as well), but Apple clearly has a different opinion on this issue. The EU commission may well say that this is against the spirt of the DMA, but to me at least, it is not against the letter.

If the EU doesn't want Apple to charge these fees, then perhaps they should change the DMA to disallow fees being charged, though that would probably open up another can of worms about how the EU is trying to nationalise US companies and compel them into offering their services for free.
 
What is undeniable is that Apple is still entitled to monetise its platform. How do you all propose that Apple bill developers then, while still adhering to the guidelines stated above?
Last I saw, Apple already monetizes their platform by selling hardware with a very high mark-up and they charge an annual fee for developers to develop for that platform.
 
This is more than fair. Apple created and maintains the platform, and gave the developers their customers. Those customers wouldn’t exist without Apple. A commission is standard fare for all businesses.
…and the European internet providers and cellular carriers invested in and maintained their platform.
Apple’s App Store business wouldn’t exist with them.

Surely they’re entitled to a cool 30% commission of Apple‘s App Store and subscription revenue.
The DMA in very easy to grasp though.
…but it’s not that easy grasp how to be barely compliant in maximising extortionate revenue.
If I hand someone millions of customers, you better believe I’m getting a cut. That’s how business works. I understand many have a childlike expectation that Apple should do this for free, but that’s beyond unreasonable.
And if you have a monopoly in connecting thousands of businesses to millions of customers, government will step in and regulate you and prevent you from engaging in anticompetitive practices.
Until an app you have to use for work decides to leave the App Store - then you won’t have a choice.
Just use another app. „There’s an app for that“.
Just like people are told to use Android instead.
That’s worse for users. Nothing to prevent developers from pulling an adobe and making it impossible to cancel your monthly subscription without a huge early termination fee, or worse, have an app steal your debit/credit card info
European Union has competition and consumer protection laws in place against that.

No need to depend on the mere goodwill of a commercial company that has already been fined for antitrust violations.
 
So using this logic, isn’t Apple similarly entitled to a cut of app revenue from apps sold outside of the App Store as well?
They‘re entitled until the app has been delivered to the customer.
Just as Walmart is entitled to a cut until the customer has paid and left the store.
How do you all propose that Apple bill developers then, while still adhering to the guidelines stated above?
They charge developers for membership and they can charge them for downloads from the App Store.
And please don’t say that Apple should just let developers keep 100% of revenue from sideloaded apps.
Yes they should.

That is the standard on general-purpose computing platforms and operating systems (Windows, Limux, macOS, Android) and beneficial to the economy and society overall.
 
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…and the European internet providers and cellular carriers invested in and maintained their platform.
Apple’s App Store business wouldn’t exist with them.

Surely they’re entitled to a cool 30% commission of Apple‘s App Store and subscription revenue.


Ha, oh god no. Apple avoids paying taxes of any kind in Europe as much as they can.
 
Yes they should.

That is the standard on general-purpose computing platforms and operating systems (Windows, Limux, macOS, Android) and beneficial to the economy and society overall.
Well, I guess we can only wait and see what Apple is ultimately allowed to get away with then (or not).

I have said my piece, as have you (and many others), and I guess this is as far as the conversation goes.
 
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Yes, an identical PS5 with a drive that gives you access to the competitive marketplace of game sales through retailers other than Sony.
Where can I buy an iPhone that does the same?
I'm not familiar with Sony's arrangement with developers. Does Sony not still get a percentage of revenue from games sold on physical media, or do they only take a cut on games sold through the PS Store?
 
But the EU commission isn't investigation Apple for violating Article 13.

Also we're talking about something which should be "abundantly clear". To me this might not even reach the threshold of "clear" but more "likely".

How do you know? The EC doesn’t disclose the exact breaches except to Apple.

It’s abundantly clear to even a layperson the CTF is an avoidance tactic. It somehow becomes more expensive to use a third party App Store with no apparent reason.
 
If the EU doesn't want Apple to charge these fees, then perhaps they should change the DMA to disallow fees being charged, though that would probably open up another can of worms about how the EU is trying to nationalise US companies and compel them into offering their services for free.
Outlawing all fees is the nuclear option and is certainly not something that the EU wants. But there are many other ways to compel Apple. I think one solution could be, that the EU mandate that ALL apps have to pay the same fees based on installs. Then Apple can decide if they want to charge such a fee and how high they should be.
 
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They‘re entitled until the app has been delivered to the customer.
Just as Walmart is entitled to a cut until the customer has paid and left the store.

They charge developers for membership and they can charge them for downloads from the App Store.

Yes they should.

That is the standard on general-purpose computing platforms and operating systems (Windows, Limux, macOS, Android) and beneficial to the economy and society overall.

ON ANY of these platforms you need to pay money to develop and publish any form of software:

1. You need to buy a computer with a license for the OS. MacOS and Linux are free here. Windows still costs a lot of money.
2. You need to pay for the software you use to develop the app(s). Visual Studio, IntelliJ, etc. XCode is free.
3. You need to pay for the digital signatures for the software. For Windows you'll need EV code signatures. Costing around $ 500 / year. On Mac / iOS you pay Apple $ 100 / year.
4. You need to pay for the hosting of the software files. Depending on the size and data usage of your app, this goes into thousands of dollars per year. Hosted in the App Store? CTF = €0,50 after 1.000.000 first installs.
5. You need to pay for listing in any/all (App) Stores. Most of them are 30% or more. Apple is 15% (up till $1000.000 in revenue).

In the end Apple is one of the cheapest platforms with the biggest user base. Sure Liniux is free, but with a user base of less than 1%.. who cares?

There is no free ride, and it's absolutely not in the costumer's intrest to demand that from Apple. (Those lost costs would need to be paid by the user, which would end in more expensive hardware)
 
This fight is about the few major revenue generators wanting access to Apple’s customer base without paying Appl;e for it.
Those are the developers' customers just as much as they are Apple's customers. You've actually illustrated the reason why this legislation is needed. Apple wants to claim perpetual ownership of every customer that ever buys an iOS device. The EU is saying no - developers are free to interact with their own customers in whatever way they see fit, and Apple has no right to stop them just because those customers happen to use an Apple device.
 
1. You need to buy a computer with a license for the OS. MacOS and Linux are free here. Windows still costs a lot of money.
2. You need to pay for the software you use to develop the app(s). Visual Studio, IntelliJ, etc. XCode is free.
3. You need to pay for the digital signatures for the software. For Windows you'll need EV code signatures. Costing around $ 500 / year. On Mac / iOS you pay Apple $ 100 / year.
4. You need to pay for the hosting of the software files. Depending on the size and data usage of your app, this goes into thousands of dollars per year. Hosted in the App Store? CTF = €0,50 after 1.000.000 first installs.
5. You need to pay for listing in any/all (App) Stores. Most of them are 30% or more. Apple is 15% (up till $1000.000 in revenue).
The fees are not the issue. It's the steering that is anti-competitive.

Apple can charge a CTF, but it would have to apply to every app, no matter if it's sold through Apple's store or any other channel.
 
The fees are not the issue. It's the steering that is anti-competitive.

Apple can charge a CTF, but it would have to apply to every app, no matter if it's sold through Apple's store or any other channel.

Then it would be quite impossible to release a free app on the iPhone. Hurting smaller developers more than bigger developers.
 
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Then it would be quite impossible to release a free app on the iPhone. Hurting smaller developers more than bigger developers.
If Apple thinks, that it absolutely needs to charge 50 Cents per install on all apps, then they would have to live with the consequences. I don't think they are that stupid. But who knows.
 
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I'm not familiar with Sony's arrangement with developers. Does Sony not still get a percentage of revenue from games sold on physical media, or do they only take a cut on games sold through the PS Store?
I suspect developers earn even less from sales of physical media (since there's also the issue of distribution costs), to say nothing of game titles that sit unsold on shelves for years. You really only see this being done with the more popular titles.

Apple can charge a CTF, but it would have to apply to every app, no matter if it's sold through Apple's store or any other channel.
And yet when I suggest billing developers the same 27% regardless of where their app is sold (plus the option of auditing developers' sales receipts), I get shot down so fast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
1. You need to buy a computer with a license for the OS. MacOS and Linux are free here. Windows still costs a lot of money.
MacOS is "free" in that it is included with the purchase of a premium-priced computer. Really, Windows is about as "free" as MacOS is for the majority of people since it, too, is included in the price of a computer.

2. You need to pay for the software you use to develop the app(s). Visual Studio, IntelliJ, etc. XCode is free.
Visual Studio has free editions and many related tools (VS Code, for example) are free. There are also dozens of free alternatives for developing for non-Apple platforms, including Windows and Android.

3. You need to pay for the digital signatures for the software. For Windows you'll need EV code signatures. Costing around $ 500 / year. On Mac / iOS you pay Apple $ 100 / year.
This isn't strictly required to build or distribute software, but either way, those fees are perfectly valid fees to charge for. Apple could easily increase the annual cost for digitally signing software if they so chose, and that would be perfectly fine.

4. You need to pay for the hosting of the software files. Depending on the size and data usage of your app, this goes into thousands of dollars per year. Hosted in the App Store? CTF = €0,50 after 1.000.000 first installs.
Unless you choose to shop around for hosting services or provide hosting yourself. It doesn't cost Apple a penny to not provide hosting for the software files of a given App.

5. You need to pay for listing in any/all (App) Stores. Most of them are 30% or more. Apple is 15% (up till $1000.000 in revenue).
And that is fine, as long as those stores are actually providing the service they are charging for. This isn't the topic of this particular article - it is about Apple adding fees for developers who don't utilize their services.

In the end Apple is one of the cheapest platforms with the biggest user base. Sure Liniux is free, but with a user base of less than 1%.. who cares?
That is great - that means Apple still offers some advantage to developers, and many developers will choose to utilize Apple's services.

There is no free ride, and it's absolutely not in the costumer's intrest to demand that from Apple. (Those lost costs would need to be paid by the user, which would end in more expensive hardware)
That is correct. There is no free ride. Which is why Apple should not be rent-seeking from developers who choose to use alternative means for distributing their apps.
 
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