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No one is taking away your choice as you can choose to activate a toggle or not, you are taking choice away from others by telling them to spend more. Maybe Apple should provide a full refund for device and AppStore purchases.
Prices won’t go down. They didn’t when Apple lowered prices for 95% of apps. Apps will leave the App Store and I’ll be forced to download apps from elsewhere.

People will get scammed. But at least MacRumors power users won’t have to use icky Android!
 
And that's ok. Because then supply vs demand comes into play. If a product is great, but the price is high, then it's the customer who decides whether to buy it or not. Maybe that will spur more competition in the apps space.

The same argument applies to Apple’s app store. Developers are their customers and can vote with their wallet as well.
Oddly enough, opening up could actually help Apple since competitors are unlikely to be cheaper and provide the access to the same lucrative user base; and since their are competitors less regulatory pressure on pricing.
 
Apps will leave the App Store and I’ll be forced to download apps from elsewhere.

I love seeing this argument! Maybe you can let me know why this hasn't happened on Android? Seeing as that platform is supposedly open - what major apps are only available from a 3rd party source for that platform?

I can't think of an example outside of Fortnite. Whether or not that's must-have software is subject to debate.
 
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So you’re ok with Apple getting to keep 30% as long as you can buy software from another store? Because Sony gets 30% when you buy a PS5 game from a retail store.

I’m sure Tim can agree to that.
Yep, I do! I'm not sure Tim could agree to that though. He loves control and he loves money even more.

I still think 30% is high. When you compare the ecosystem when the iPhone launched, to now, you're not getting the same exposure. Yes there are more customers, but the whole App Store is a garbled mess with less curation and features for quality apps.
 
Cool, so Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should be next, right? Or is it Apple because you made some arbitrary distinction that the App Store is nothing like the others...?

Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all offer physical media that can be sold second hand etc. So a bit difference still.
 
I can buy software for any of those platforms from retail outlets, so no.
New video games from retail outlets still pay Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo royalties as they control the software still.

If that's what it takes to avoid opening the platform, Apple would gladly sell app cards in retail.
 
Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo all offer physical media that can be sold second hand etc. So a bit difference still.
Apple would be glad to force developers to sell retail boxes of their apps and still collect the fee like Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are doing if it lets them keep the system closed.

The big difference here is that developers make less money because retail boxes make less profit for the dev and users are selling it second hand where none of it goes back to the developer.
 
I love seeing this argument! Maybe you can let me know why this hasn't happened on Android? Seeing as that platform is supposedly open - what major apps are only available from a 3rd party source for that platform?

I can't think of an example outside of Fortnite. Whether or not that's must-have software is subject to debate.

Maybe the reason you haven’t seen a mass exodus on Android is because going off-store only gets you out of Google’s 30%, and Google users famously don’t pay for apps. So no ROI for skipping Google’s, and you still have to pay Apple’s so why bother? But maybe the moment developers can bypass both, the economics flip and literally any high-margin subscription business now has a financial incentive to move, because keeping 100% of revenue across all mobile users is suddenly viable.

Or maybe you’re right and no major app would ever take that option. If that’s the case, then why are we blowing up a proven security and privacy model to one Android shows is less safe, (and burning hundreds of millions in regulatory overhead and wasted development cycles for features that Android shows customers won’t use) for a change that, by your own logic, achieves nothing at all?

When the App Store is optional for developers, it becomes optional for them, but their apps don’t magically become optional for me. The point is not whether every app vanishes, but whether the user retains the guarantee of a single trusted distribution point. Once that’s gone, I’m no longer in control of whether I need to chase an app elsewhere the developer is. Meaning my closed ecosystem is no longer closed.

The consumers’ preferences have been taken away, when consumers who cared already had an open option. Taking choice away from the consumer so developers can freeload.
 
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I love seeing this argument! Maybe you can let me know why this hasn't happened on Android?

It's happened on the Mac.

Seeing as that platform is supposedly open - what major apps are only available from a 3rd party source for that platform?


So you're telling me that Android, the open platform, hasn't seen a mass exodus from the Play Store and most developers and users prefer to use the Play Store?

Sounds like Apple shouldn't even bother to open the platform since most will just stick with the App Store.
 
Maybe the reason you haven’t seen a mass exodus on Android is because going off-store only gets you out of Google’s 30%, and Google users famously don’t pay for apps. So no ROI for skipping Google’s, and you still have to pay Apple’s so why bother? But maybe the moment developers can bypass both, the economics flip and literally any high-margin subscription business now has a financial incentive to move, because keeping 100% of revenue across all mobile users is suddenly viable.

Or maybe you’re right and no major app would ever take that option. If that’s the case, then why are we blowing up a proven security and privacy model to one Android shows is less safe, (and burning hundreds of millions in regulatory overhead and wasted development cycles for features that Android shows customers won’t use) for a change that, by your own logic, achieves nothing at all?

When the App Store is optional for developers, it becomes optional for them, but their apps don’t magically become optional for me. The point is not whether every app vanishes, but whether the user retains the guarantee of a single trusted distribution point. Once that’s gone, I’m no longer in control of whether I need to chase an app elsewhere the developer is. Meaning my closed ecosystem is no longer closed.

The consumers’ preferences have been taken away, when consumers who cared already had an open option. Taking choice away from the consumer so developers can freeload.
This I don’t understand. How is this meaningfuly different with apps that o my exists on iOS or Android? You’re forced in the exact same manner to get the other device to use the app because the developer refuses to/ can’t put the app in your preferred store?
 
Well the whole article is about how the consumer is harmed by the higher fees. If the higher fees came down, the consumer wouldn't feel the difference, therefore making this lawsuit moot.

When Apple & Google dropped fees from 30% to 15% for small developers App prices stayed the same and developers pocketed the difference. This is a perfect example of what happens when fees are lowered.

This is about greedy developers who are using the excuse of consumer harm to line their pockets.
 
I mean, the vast majority of in app purchases are games. Like 65-70% of App Store revenue and 75% of in-app purchase revenue comes from games. So, you could make a strong argument that the iPhone is a portable game console that lets you do other things too, and you should be mad at Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo for not allowing non-games on their game consoles.
You could make that argument, if you like making bad arguments.
 
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Unless you have a digital only console.
Both PS5 and Xbox have SKUs that customers can choose to buy physical media, it’s up to the customer to decide (and in the case of Sony, you can get the disc drive separately as far as I understand). How many iPhones allow you to load physical media?
 
Supermarket cartels have increased prices on essential commodities a lot. No one got fined. If the app costs unreasonably high, I choose not to buy.
 
Apple would be glad to force developers to sell retail boxes of their apps and still collect the fee like Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo are doing if it lets them keep the system closed.

The big difference here is that developers make less money because retail boxes make less profit for the dev and users are selling it second hand where none of it goes back to the developer.

The difference I am highlighting is a choice of marketplace. That is why it is nit the same as Apples store which the OP I replied to was instigating. For instance yo can go to CD Keys and buy heavily discounted codes for games too, again something you cannot do for Apples store.
 
Try selling something in a physical store. Listing fees often are 40-60%. Also 30% fees are still the market default for ANY online store except the Epic Games Store (which is subsidized by Fortnite money)
 
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