Apple Loses UK Antitrust Lawsuit Over App Store Fees, Faces £1.5 Billion in Damages

[Sophisticatednut]

If the App Store's fees are artificially high because of a lack of competition, why hasn't Google Play's commission been forced lower by competition? I mean, they're open, and there are third party stores and sideloading. So why do they have the exact same commission structure as Apple? Shouldn't it have gone lower?

Can’t believe you missed the entire anti competitive legal process against Google showing they enforced their store and Google services as a mandatory included store? As well as their massive effort to counter any attempt for competing stores.

Like no android phone where allowed to ship it without the playstore and only their own or other stores…? All over the place?

Google ordered to open Play store to rivals after antitrust loss to Epic Games

Google must make Android apps available from competing sources and cannot forbid use of in-app payment methods

www.theguardian.com

 

[code-m]

Yes. I'm saying plenty of developers can sell their licenses for the app outside the App Store and use Apple Pay (or anything else). Listing and distribution is essentially free ($99/year).

AppStore distribution is not free it’s included in the Dev membership fee weather you publish an app or not it’s all part of the package. Apple the wants another percentage for using the AppStore for facilitating the purchase without providing options to third-party transactors who may charge less. The option is removed for the developer and customer and that’s the point. Apple is welcomed to offer ApplePay along with other options the developer feels will benefit their customers and their business.

 

[Apple$]

Have some compassion for the poor, independent, small business of Apple Inc. /sarcasm

 

[germanbeer007]

People have mentioned PS Vita but fail to see that the hardware device has gaming controller on the physical device.

This is a new one: as long as there's a gaming controller on the device, suddenly Apple can keep iOS closed? Amazing.

Apple just needs to make a phone with a sliding screen so that the controller reveals itself and then it can bypass all the rules huh?

 

[germanbeer007]

AppStore distribution is not free it’s included in the Dev membership fee

that's why I said "essentially" free.

 

[code-m]

Yes, as stated in the first paragraph "estimated the total bill of materials (BoM)".


It's an estimate as you and the article clearly pointed out. People pay analysts to figure this stuff out without violating NDA with some degree of accuracy.



Never made that argument.

The argument of Qualcomm selling LTE chips at the same price as their 5G chip is, to use your words, daft. There is nothing to suggest that the iPhone 12 cost nearly the same (or less) to produce as iPhone 11 and there are plenty of reports to suggest that it costs more.

Using your iPhone 12 cost comparison, the cost for other components used since would come down in price with the exception of pandemic global supply and demand shortages. So claiming some of those technologies and materials used then are more now is also not reasonable as component prices fluctuate. Apple is not transparent about these things and analysts are speculating to a certain degree, plus it all analysts are of the same calibre.

 

[surferfb]

This is a new one: as long as there's a gaming controller on the device, suddenly Apple can keep iOS closed? Amazing.

Apple just needs to make a phone with a sliding screen so that the controller reveals itself and then it can bypass all the rules huh?

Ultimately, those defending this want it, they’ll come up with whatever justification for it, ignore all evidence it is a bad idea, because they think they know better and don’t care if less sophisticated users get hurt and millions of users’ preference for a closed ecosystem is taken away.

All because they can’t buy a product that better meets their needs. It’s gobsmacking how selfish it is.

 

[code-m]

This is a new one: as long as there's a gaming controller on the device, suddenly Apple can keep iOS closed? Amazing.

Apple just needs to make a phone with a sliding screen so that the controller reveals itself and then it can bypass all the rules huh?

Irrelevant as the intention of the iPhone (literally has phone in the product name) is designed to be a communication device vice PS Vita’s intention is to be a mobile gaming device that can do other things. Let me know when those hardware controllers on the PS Vita can be removed.

There are third-party accessories for the iPhone and iPad but once again on an iPhone gaming a segment as even iOS is not specifically designed for gaming purposes.

Let me know when iOS needs an external controller to make it function 100%.

 

[germanbeer007]

Using your iPhone 12 cost comparison, the cost for other components used since would come down in price

Total cost is 21% more.

with the exception of pandemic global supply and demand shortages. So claiming some of those technologies and materials used then are more now

We're discussing going from iPhone 11 (that had charging brick) to iPhone 12 (where apple removed charging brick), cost of producing the iPhone 12 increased and therefore, removing the charging brick didn't really result in pure profit taking.

 

[germanbeer007]

Irrelevant as the intention of the iPhone (literally has phone in the product name) is designed to be a communication device vice PS Vita’s intention

So now it's "intention".

It sounds like we're just making it up as we go along as to when the distinction starts and stops?

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Apple just needs to cease any and all iPhone and Mac updates in the UK and EU.

 

[neutralguy]

No, that’s because Apple turned the iPad and iPhone into huge global bestsellers and continuous to invest in what they believe their customers like most. That doesn’t give anyone the right to a free ride.

You are correct, there is a lot of confusion. As a dev, I'm not just selling my product. I'm selling a product designed for iPhone. No-one would design their product on top of Amazon. Amazon is just a marketplace.

The iPhone is a product that by design allows for expanding its standard features by whatever you can come up with. The result is an experience that is the combination of your innovation and work, on top the work Apple has done to allow you to design, build and deliver your product.

The AppStore could be seen a just a marketplace but the complete eco-system behind it is so much more than just a market place. Separating the platform from the store might sound like a great anti-competitive idea but it completely ignores that the product below the store is what gives the store its value. Without the product, there wouldn't be a store.

Amazon doesn't have that dilemma. The store is the product. That's all it is.

That's like saying all the products built for Tesla should be sold by Tesla and people should go to Tesla stores to buy them. I don't see Tesla doing that.

 

[frenchcamp49er]

Trump needs to add a 1000% tariff on the UK, they don’t have anything we need anyway

 

[code-m]

Ultimately, those defending this want it, they’ll come up with whatever justification for it, ignore all evidence it is a bad idea, because they think they know better and don’t care if less sophisticated users get hurt and millions of users’ preference for a closed ecosystem is taken away.

All because they can’t buy a product that better meets their needs. It’s gobsmacking how selfish it is.

Wouldn’t it be selfish to not permit an open system for all. If someone doesn’t like it that’s fine don’t need to stray outside the walled garden it’s not like Apple is unable to provide an AppStore toggle to permit non-AppStore apps to run on the device. Google ChromeOS does this with “Dev Mode”, giving the customer a choice.

Do you feel choice is important or not?

 

[neutralguy]

So Apple hurt consumers with their policies by keeping prices too high. So when they dropped their fees to 15% for small developers and developers did not drop price did the developers cheat consumers as well and should be subject to a class action? Do subscription apps do the same if they don’t drop prices after the first year when Apple drops their cut?
Make no mistake, the consumer won’t see lower prices if Apple drops their fee.

And that's ok. Because then supply vs demand comes into play. If a product is great, but the price is high, then it's the customer who decides whether to buy it or not. Maybe that will spur more competition in the apps space.

 

[surferfb]

Wouldn’t it be selfish to not permit an open system for all. If someone doesn’t like it that’s fine don’t need to stray outside the walled garden it’s not like Apple is unable to provide an AppStore toggle to permit non-AppStore apps to run on the device. Google ChromeOS does this with “Dev Mode”, giving the customer a choice.

One exists. It’s called Android. You’re taking away the closed option. Endangering millions

Do you feel choice is important or not?

I do. Choose Android. Don’t take away my choice for a closed ecosystem.

 

[germanbeer007]

Do you feel choice is important or not?

Choice is important. I want to be able to choose a device where there is no other option but one store to install any native app. I don't want there to be a conditional "yes, you can install app if you install XYZ store". I want a clear "yes you can" or "no you can't" as much as possible. It simplifies the UX across the board.

If you truly value the option to install apps from many different stores, Android is your choice.

 

[code-m]

So now it's "intention".

It sounds like we're just making it up as we go along as to when the distinction starts and stops?

Maybe you need to listen to the late Steve Jobs introduction of the iPhone, its intention is to be a communication device in your pocket and he was against the AppStore which seems to have driven us revenue and profits for Apple since its introduction.

 

[code-m]

One exists. It’s called Android. You’re taking away the closed option. Endangering millions


I do. Choose Android. Don’t take away my choice for a closed ecosystem.

No one is taking away your choice as you can choose to activate a toggle or not, you are taking choice away from others by telling them to spend more. Maybe Apple should provide a full refund for device and AppStore purchases.

 

[germanbeer007]

Maybe you need to listen to the late Steve Jobs introduction of the iPhone, its intention is to be a communication device in your pocket and he was against the AppStore which seems to have driven us revenue and profits for Apple since its introduction.

Steve Jobs died in 2011. There is no relevance of his intentions to this discussion about the distinction between the App Store and Nintendo Eshop today.

 

[code-m]

Choice is important. I want to be able to choose a device where there is no other option but one store to install any native app. I don't want there to be a conditional "yes, you can install app if you install XYZ store". I want a clear "yes you can" or "no you can't" as much as possible. It simplifies the UX across the board.

If you truly value the option to install apps from many different stores, Android is your choice.

No one is forcing you to use anything other than the official AppStore if it was open, literally this is the case in EU and the sky is not falling Chicken Little.

 

[code-m]

Steve Jobs died in 2011. There is no relevance of his intentions to this discussion about the distinction between the App Store and Nintendo Eshop today.

Befuddling the intention of the device, got it no counter-argument.

 

[germanbeer007]

No one is forcing you to use anything other than the official AppStore if it was open,

Except if an app I paid for left the App Store and forces me to download the app directly from developer

Which has already happened on the Mac.

 

[germanbeer007]

Befuddling the intention of the device, got it no counter-argument.

Intention is irrelevant. that's the counter. you don't got it. at all.

"Intention here is to confuse the government so we can say the primary intention is a gaming device and we can keep it closed, but also include phone features for customers that need it!"


I think this is where we part ways. Have a good one.

 

[chmania]

Don’t take away my choice for a closed ecosystem.

No one is taking away your choice for a closed ecosystem...in your country. You are very welcome!