Apple Makes $29 Battery Replacements Available Immediately for iPhone 6 and Newer

[goonie4life9]

Huh? They admitted there was an issue by explicitly including an iOS change to address the sudden shut-downs. The issue people are having is that iOS was reducing performance because the degraded battery wasn’t able to provide adequate voltage while the Apple Store diagnostics claimed the battery was fine. Hence, it is an issue in which the metrics for battery performance weren’t matched.

maybe they weren't communicating with anyone, hoping to keep things secret on how they put a band-aid on a poor design or faulty batteries

 

[gnipgnop]

You are making most of that up. Cite your sources to support each point please. And none of that has anything to do with apple's lack of disclosure/transparency, or the suspicious timing of the updates.

I'm not making anything up. As a lithium ion battery discharges, the max voltage available to the CPU lowers. For the first 80% of discharge, it's going to provide the nominal (average) voltage or higher. Most of that is going to be within a fairly steady plateau of voltage with minimal reduction. 20% or lower is when the voltage will start to drop off steeply and is logically the most likely time for a user with a healthy battery to experience voltage issues that could trigger Apple's throttling feature.

This link has the chart with the standard discharge/voltage levels...note the very steep/rapid voltage drop at 20% charge or lower. And like I said, that corresponds to Apple's low power pop-up in iOS.

https://learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/voltages

 

[FrozenDarkness]

It seems like nobody really knows how this “throttle” works. Unless it throttles you 24/7 no matter what on a relatively healthy battery, we are gettinf ahead of ourselves

 

[Baymowe335]

You have played up your BMW airbag issue is several threads, making it sound like you are driving around in a death trap, this is the first post (i've seen) where you have tempered your point and allowed that the risk is low. I haven't done any independent research on the matter, so I'll take your word for all of it. At any rate, the BMW issue, as you've described it, is not analogous to the apple issue everyone is discussing in this thread. The fact that BMW disclosed the issue to you and others makes it much different.

So you think disclosing an issue that says in black and white can "cause injury or death" and no remedy is available for 3 years is better than the Apple situation?

I'm not hiding that the risk is low, but BMW is the company also telling you the risk is low. How do I really know? I just don't read news every day that BMW owners are dying, so I take their word for it. It's my car...what other options do I have? The reason I made the point was that there are a lot of serious and not so serious matters involving real, consumer products and companies handle them in various ways.

Apple seems to have handled this with a reasonable and cheap solution available.

 

[neutralguy]

You have an old phone. Get over it. You don’t even deserve a $29 battery replacement.

I would like to see your reaction when your car dealer/service man tells you that you have an old car and you don't deserve an oil change.

 

[Tor Eckman]

I'm not making anything up. As a lithium ion battery discharges, the max voltage available to the CPU lowers. For the first 80% of discharge, it's going to provide the nominal (average) voltage or higher. Most of that is going to be within a fairly steady plateau of voltage with minimal reduction. 20% or lower is when the voltage will start to drop off steeply and is logically the most likely time for a user with a healthy battery to experience voltage issues that could trigger Apple's throttling feature.

This link has the chart with the standard discharge/voltage levels...note the very steep/rapid voltage drop at 20% charge or lower.

https://learn.adafruit.com/li-ion-and-lipoly-batteries/voltages

You made a lot more points than that in your post, so we are going to need more citations. Also, a battery performance chart does not explain the timing of the "updates", the fact that the latest model was not getting the "update" or the fact the apple failed to properly disclose any of this in a way average consumers could understand; thereby allowing some users to believe that their generation old phone was too old to properly run an iOS update and therefore a new phone was needed.
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So you think disclosing an issue that says in black and white can "cause injury or death" and no remedy is available for 3 years is better than the Apple situation?

I didn't say better or worse, just different. Your BMW issue is not analogous to what apple did.

 

[Altis]

You have an old phone. Get over it. You don’t even deserve a $29 battery replacement.

They still sell those models today, so they aren't that old.

Even then, age is no excuse to secretly slow it down (on top of bogging it down with permanent, buggy, and bloated iOS updates).

The throttling begins well into the "Healthy" (>80%) battery health where Apple techs will not change it and tell you nothing is wrong.

 

[Baymowe335]

You made a lot more points than that in your post, so we are going to need more citations. Also, a battery performance chart does not explain the timing of the "updates", the fact that the latest model was not getting the "update" or the fact the apple failed to properly disclose any of this in a way average consumers could understand; thereby allowing some users to believe that their generation old phone was too old to properly run an iOS update and therefore a new phone was needed.
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I didn't say better or worse, just different. Your BMW issue is not analogous to what apple did.

The BMW IS analogous to a consumer product having issues and a company doing absolutely worse than Apple to solve the situation. Apple is an example of a company that steps up. BMW has failed their customers now twice in the same model.

 

[rootee]

Geekbench triggers the throttling. That's already known. There was also a developer on this thread yesterday that gave a detailed description of why it does vs. a standard app, so you probably shouldn't be assuming much about anything other than benchmarking software.

MHO1 knows what I'm talking about because it was a direct response to one of his own questions about WHY benchmark software would trigger it.

Not defending AAPL here, but they're presumably very intelligent and thorough -- if they were trying to hide all this wouldn't they DISABLE throttling if they detect a benchmark running? Like what VW did with diesels under test. If they were hiding this, they did so in plain sight

PS: AAPL, you're free to use this an a PR angle 😉

 

[Martyimac]

The BMW IS analogous to a consumer product having issues and a company doing absolutely worse than Apple to solve the situation. Apple is an example of a company that steps up. BMW has failed their customers now twice in the same model.

I have been away from BMW for a while, what is the issue please?

 

[Bawstun]

Yes, my iPhone is slow like crap with the latest iOS 11. Apple better replace my battery at the next genius bar appointment or they might lose a loyal customer who has been with them forever!

The battery isn’t the problem. My 6S would shut off with higher than 80% remaining AND the battery wear and tear was less than 20%. Even after just a few months, your phone will be throttled again. Something is wrong with the chipsets and they won’t announce that (yet). Time will tell. As they start losing lawsuit after lawsuit, something will have to give.

 

[Chones cajones]

You have an old phone. Get over it. You don’t even deserve a $29 battery replacement.

Come on now, you can't seriously believe that Apple have reduced the price of battery replacements because their customers were surprised to find their phones got old.

I would like to see your reaction when your car dealer/service man tells you that you have an old car and you don't deserve an oil change.

Exactly.

What they've effectively done is, continuing on from NeutralGuy's post, carried out scheduled maintenance in the form of an oil change, but also reprogrammed the ECU to give you 20% less horsepower because your battery was getting old. But not told you they'd done it. Wouldn't you be a little surprised to learn that?

 

[deferredAnon]

Not defending AAPL here, but they're presumably very intelligent and thorough -- if they were trying to hide all this wouldn't they DISABLE throttling if they detect a benchmark running? Like what VW did with diesels under test. If they were hiding this, they did so in plain sight

PS: AAPL, you're free to use this an a PR angle 😉

How could they detect it was a benchmark running and not a game? Also, purposely doing things like that can be a major red flag if they were eventually found out. It would be like an admission of guilt.

 

[Defthand]

Apple is not making their battery replacement resolution convenient. While traveling, I visited an Apple store and said I wanted my battery replaced while I waited. Beforehand, I tried phoning the store to learn whether they performed the task on site, or if they sent the phone elsewhere. Of course, it’s impossible to reach a store’s staff by phone—calls are forwarded to special operators. The operator assured me the task was done on site. However, the store’s greeter tells me that the stores don’t stock batteries! They would have to order the part and I would have to return a week later for the install! Furthermore, they still require a diagnostic test to qualify for the battery replacement! So much for Apple’s apology. I ordered a replacement battery from a third party instead.

 

[rootee]

How could they detect it was a benchmark running and not a game? Also, purposely doing things like that can be a major red flag if they were eventually found out. It would be like an admission of guilt.

That was my point, that they possibly weren't actively trying to hide it

Also, to answer the question, "How could they detect it was a benchmark running and not a game?"... Where there's a will there's a way, just ask VW

 

[Tor Eckman]

The BMW IS analogous to a consumer product having issues and a company doing absolutely worse than Apple to solve the situation. Apple is an example of a company that steps up. BMW has failed their customers now twice in the same model.

The apple product issue, was according to apple, phones shutting down due to battery issues, and their solution was to slip in, under the cover of night, a point update to throttle performance and not disclose any of it to consumers in a reasonable fashion. The solution you are referring to is the battery replacement program, which didn't happen until the first solution was found out. All this should illustrate to you how important a disinfectant sunlight really is; and, without public outcry and rebuke, apple would still be failing to disclose any of this, and one generation old phones would continue to get throttled, when a new battery could remedy the throttling.

 

[Baymowe335]

I have been away from BMW for a while, what is the issue please?

Airbag recall that can cause metal shrapnel to kill driver. Blower motor wiring can arc and cause a fire (has happened several times).
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The apple product issue, was according to apple, phones shutting down due to battery issues, and their solution was to slip in, under the cover of night, a point update to throttle performance and not disclose any of it to consumers in a reasonable fashion. The solution you are referring to is the battery replacement program, which didn't happen until the first solution was found out. All this should illustrate to you how important a disinfectant sunlight really is; and, without public outcry and rebuke, apple would still be failing to disclose any of this, and one generation old phones would continue to get throttled, when a new battery could remedy the throttling.

Maybe without people complaining, Apple wouldn't know there is an issue? Takes public to report on consumer product issues and takes the company time to engineer and plan a solution.

 

[MH01]

Properly designed benchmarks are of little value unless they measure normal performance, typical of apps that the customers actually use. Otherwise, improperly used, they can mislead customers into buying computers that are unsuitable for the software that the customer primarily runs. Which is seldom using their computer as a building heater or hand warmer.

I know where you are coming from . Benchmarking is in fact useless to day to day users.

Benchmarking is about bragging rights , in no way does it reflect normal performance . Benchmarking is like taking your car to the speedway, setting it up for the fastest run possible , you can say your car does x top speed , we all know you don't drive at that speed.

Case in point , Apple brags about having really fast single core speeds.... look at the 6S markerting, benchmarking supports this , and here they are throttling 😉

People need to forget about bench marking , it's not relevant to what is happening here.

Average people who will never , ever run a bench app are having thier phones shutdown/restart , Apple puts in a throttling fix.... that's all.

Benchmarking was a tool to the discovery . The benchmarking tangent is individuals trying to deflect and cause argument on this thread.

 

[Martyimac]

Airbag recall that can cause metal shrapnel to kill driver. Blower motor wiring can arc and cause a fire (has happened several times).

Ah, the Takata air bag issue. It's going to be a while before anybody is caught up with that one.
The blower motor I had not heard of. Thanks.

 

[MH01]

This message from apple:


"About a year ago in iOS 10.2.1, we delivered a software update that improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone 6, iPhone 6 Plus, iPhone 6s, iPhone 6s Plus, and iPhone SE. With the update, iOS dynamically manages the maximum performance of some system components when needed to prevent a shutdown. While these changes may go unnoticed, in some cases users may experience longer launch times for apps and other reductions in performance.

Customer response to iOS 10.2.1 was positive, as it successfully reduced the occurrence of unexpected shutdowns. We recently extended the same support for iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus in iOS 11.2.

Of course, when a chemically aged battery is replaced with a new one, iPhone performance returns to normal when operated in standard conditions."
https://www.apple.com/iphone-battery-and-performance/ December 28, 2017
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You are making most of that up. Cite your sources to support each point please. And none of that has anything to do with apple's lack of disclosure/transparency, or the suspicious timing of the updates. To your second point, however, if the software is sophisticated enough to know when to throttle based on battery health, then it is sophisticated enough to let consumers know that the battery health is poor enough to affect performance and that a new battery would remedy the issue.

He keeps copy and pasting the same statement over and over, I would just not bite .

 

[Tor Eckman]

Maybe without people complaining, Apple wouldn't know there is an issue? Takes public to report on consumer product issues and takes the company time to engineer and plan a solution.

Lol, ok. Apple knew their was a hardware/battery problem causing phones to shutdown, they admitted this in their "apology," pursuant to a barrage of lawsuits. Their solution was to degrade the performance of phones through a point release software update, rather than disclosing to consumers that a new battery was the appropriate solution. This self-serving solution accomplished at least two things for apple, 1) they didn't have to deal with as many phone/battery complaints from customers, and 2) the degrading of performance would certainly encourage some owners of one generation old phones to upgrade to the latest model due to performance issues. It was a win/win for apple, and a lose/lose for apples customers. Can you not see any of this?

 

[Baymowe335]

Ah, the Takata air bag issue. It's going to be a while before anybody is caught up with that one.
The blower motor I had not heard of. Thanks.

BMW has been particularly awful on this one.

 

[Baymowe335]

Lol, ok. Apple knew their was a hardware/battery problem causing phones to shutdown, they admitted this in their "apology," pursuant to a barrage of lawsuits. Their solution was to degrade the performance of phones through a point release software update, rather than disclosing to consumers that a new battery was the appropriate solution. This self-serving solution accomplished at least two things for apple, 1) they didn't have to deal with as many phone/battery complaints from customers, and 2) the degrading of performance would certainly encourage some owners of one generation old phones to upgrade to the latest model due to performance issues. It was a win/win for apple, and a lose/lose for apples customers. Can you not see any of this?

Phones shutting down to protect circuits is a phenomenon in all (see not just Apple) lithium batteries and is not indicative of a "hardware/battery problem." It's inherent in lithium batteries and dependent on how many cycles, environment, tasks performed, and other stressors on the battery. To say every battery in every iPhone 6/6s/7 is a hardware issue is just ridiculous and untrue.

Apple implemented the software update to improve user experience. The power management was to not be noticeable in every day speeds since benchmarks are designed to artificially tax hardware and wouldn't be a daily occurrence in normal use. Perhaps they miscalculated the effect this would have on hundreds of millions of phones, but it doesn't prove intent or knowledge they were purposely ruining user performance in effort to coerce premature upgrades. That's where everyone is making huge leaps.

Again, my Samsung Note constantly shut itself down at 50% and I never understood why (because Samsung doesn't support their hardware or give software updates) until Apple reported this.

 

[Martyimac]

BMW has been particularly awful on this one.

In what way and which one. The Takata recall is out of their hands, when they get the new airbags from Takata, they will be replaced. I assume there is an actual recall on the blower motor?

 

[Tor Eckman]

Apple implemented the software update to improve user experience. The power management was to not be noticeable in every day speeds since benchmarks are designed to artificially tax hardware and wouldn't be a daily occurrence in normal use. Perhaps they miscalculated the effect this would have on hundreds of millions of phones, but it doesn't prove intent or knowledge they were purposely ruining user performance in effort to coerce premature upgrades. That's where everyone is making huge leaps.

And yet you made a self-serving (to your argument) leap by stating apple's motive and by stating that users would not notice at everyday speeds. Yet apple admits in their timely apology that users would/did notice under everyday speeds because apps were taking longer to open and performance was decreased:

"While these changes may go unnoticed, in some cases users may experience longer launch times for apps and other reductions in performance." http://bgr.com/2017/12/28/iphone-battery-apple-apology-letter-battery-replacement/ December 28, 2017