Apple Makes 'iWork for iCloud' Beta Available to Registered Developers

[IJ Reilly]

Ha, you get my point tho. How many people actually use 20% of Word's capabilities. I've never run a macro on it in my life. Or mail merged or used comic sans....

I'm sitting here with a lot of smoke and peanut shells around me and feeling like a complete idiot.

You are right, and this is one of my pet peeves. Word is one of the most over-muscled apps, ever, and made even worse by its forced ubiquity. It's got features coming out of its ears, features that the vast majority of users either will never need or couldn't figure out how to use if they did them. How many Word users even know how to create a paragraph style? Based on the Word docs that fly over my transom every day, my rough estimate is 0.01%. And this is a basic word processing feature; if you can't do that, you are using your powerful PC as if it was a typewriter. Ticka-ticka-ticka-ding.

Tools appropriate to tasks. Don't get me started.

 

[spaceballl]

I'm wondering how well collaboration will work with this new and improved iWork in the cloud. For example, my wife and I (both nerds), use Numbers for our monthly budget. We use a dropbox shared folder to share the file (we use dropbox shared folders for sharing all sorts of docs), and if I make an edit, it is almost instantly pushed to her and vice versa. The only issue right now is if we both happen to open / edit the file at the same time. Even that isn't AWFUL... but... it creates a conflict file. I wonder how well the iCloud sharing will work here or if we'll still need to use Dropbox. For example, one limitation of our current dropbox implementation is that we can't use the iOS clients. We can open the file from dropbox in Numbers on our iPhones, but we can't save the edited version back to dropbox. Anyhow... just thinking out loud whether or not this will fix things up for us.

 

[ssdeg7]

I'm wondering how well collaboration will work with this new and improved iWork in the cloud. For example, my wife and I (both nerds), use Numbers for our monthly budget. We use a dropbox shared folder to share the file (we use dropbox shared folders for sharing all sorts of docs), and if I make an edit, it is almost instantly pushed to her and vice versa. The only issue right now is if we both happen to open / edit the file at the same time. Even that isn't AWFUL... but... it creates a conflict file. I wonder how well the iCloud sharing will work here or if we'll still need to use Dropbox. For example, one limitation of our current dropbox implementation is that we can't use the iOS clients. We can open the file from dropbox in Numbers on our iPhones, but we can't save the edited version back to dropbox. Anyhow... just thinking out loud whether or not this will fix things up for us.

Google docs works great on iPad and any iOS device and doesn't have Dropbox's conflicted copy problem, you can both edit at the same time without getting a headache

 

[spaceballl]

Google docs works great on iPad and any iOS device and doesn't have Dropbox's conflicted copy problem, you can both edit at the same time without getting a headache

Haha I know. I like actually having files on my computer that back up when my computer backs up. I also like being able to view / edit them when I'm on an airplane without wi-fi (we both travel a lot). The conflicts are never really an issue... It's more the mobile device support. Also, spreadsheets in google docs have way less conditional formatting options than what we use (like I said, we're nerds).

 

[laurim]

I'm sitting here with a lot of smoke and peanut shells around me and feeling like a complete idiot.

You are right, and this is one of my pet peeves. Word is one of the most over-muscled apps, ever, and made even worse by its forced ubiquity. It's got features coming out of its ears, features that the vast majority of users either will never need or couldn't figure out how to use if they did them. How many Word users even know how to create a paragraph style? Based on the Word docs that fly over my transom every day, my rough estimate is 0.01%. And this is a basic word processing feature; if you can't do that, you are using your powerful PC as if it was a typewriter. Ticka-ticka-ticka-ding.

Tools appropriate to tasks. Don't get me started.

Based on what I see, most people don't know how to set tabs so their bullet lists align properly. Or assign spacing between paragraphs rather than hitting return twice. Paragraph styles would be WAY over their heads.

 

[laurim]

Huh? It's been out for days! No graphs in Numbers though, anyone else notice that?

Regarding vs Office - personally I'd rather use Pages than Word and Keynote than PowerPoint, but Numbers isn't as powerful as Excel and power is the point of spreadsheets. I have bo idea why Numbers is page based, that screams “we don't get spreadsheets” to me.

Because you need a locked down page of cells to be able to compute numbers? Numbers lets you put a table full of cells anywhere you want, the exact size you want and then a chart, images or text anywhere else. So when you write a report based on your data, you do it right in Numbers and it doesn't look like a$$ or doesn't require moving to another program to add text and decent looking graphs/charts. There are plenty of formula functions available (250) in Numbers to cover most people's needs in spreadsheets. I do my business accounting/invoicing, keep track of remodeling expenses on my house and vacation expenses in Numbers and it's so much easier than Excel in my opinion. I had never used checkboxes to include or exclude items in a calculation before so when I used them in Numbers it was pretty cool to keep track of items I had purchased to see how much I had spent so far for my remodels. I assume Excel has the same thing but Numbers made it easy to implement by starting with one of Apple's templates.

What do you mean "no graphs in Numbers"?

 

[Twimfy]

Use the email address on your paid developer account, not a username.

Nope. Doesn't work.

My dev account login has always been a username.

Tried all 3 of my associated email addresses with no joy.

 

[Abazigal]

Seems the biggest issue here isn't including enough features, but ensuring Apple has sufficient server capacity to cater to all future iworks users.

 

[gnasher729]

Nope. Doesn't work.

My dev account login has always been a username.

Tried all 3 of my associated email addresses with no joy.

I started out like that, and about two years ago I gave in and changed my private and works AppleId to email addresses. Too much trouble otherwise, as you notice.

 

[taldo]

RTL Languages support

Hey,

anyone here is right to left language speaker and knows if they added real right to left language support....?

by the way,
in that issue Apple is far behind MS and Google.
It's so frustrating that i can't use iWork... When i save it in doc format and try to open it in Office Word, everything is written backwards!

Anyone knows about future support in that issue in the new version..?

 

[Roller]

This was certainly a surprise in he keynote..

I do wonder how thy will manage this as it makes the desktop apps rather redundant for mac. More interesting that now pc will now experience iWork which could break office's monopoly if this s done right and marketed!

Watch this space!

I'm especially interested in what Apple will do with the desktop apps, which haven't been updated in more than four years. Although the ability to work on documents in the cloud sounds great, there are many times when an Internet connection isn't available or its bandwidth is too low to let me work with Keynote presentations that contain multiple QuickTime movies and other media.

 

[hopi]

Security aspect

I really do not understand the hype for cloud applications. It seems that people don't care on their privacy anymore.

Even after the last scandal with NSA pulling ALL the data also from Apple (and that includes iCloud!!) people will not change their mind. I will never understand it.

 

[Tiger8]

This was certainly a surprise in he keynote..

I do wonder how thy will manage this as it makes the desktop apps rather redundant for mac. More interesting that now pc will now experience iWork which could break office's monopoly if this s done right and marketed!

Watch this space!

No. I think Microsoft pretty much owns this market. I love Apple but no tool is even close to Word or Excel. I hated them for 'revamping' the UI starting with Office 2007, but in terms of functionality nothing comes close.

 

[TwoBytes]

Is there way to share documents with a person and have it live update?
Ie, when an edit it made, the person viewing it can see the edit

Also, if a manager has 10 staff working on different docs, is there a 'manager view' for them to see all the docs and changes?

Sorry, big ask

 

[TimWillz]

Public Beta

I wish they would just publicly release the Beta, I'm sure you don't have to be a developer to report a few bugs. I'm also sure everyone would be happy to have a play with it now.

 

[IJ Reilly]

Based on what I see, most people don't know how to set tabs so their bullet lists align properly. Or assign spacing between paragraphs rather than hitting return twice. Paragraph styles would be WAY over their heads.

Do tell. It's sad, really. I'm sure the complexity of Word isn't entirely to blame, but I do see how proclaiming it the "standard" has contributed to people who could easily get by with a much simpler word processor that focuses on primary tasks feeling compelled to use Word.

I miss the late, great WriteNow. It was clean, small, fast, and easy to grasp for basic writing tasks. It was everything about 95% of people needed in a word processor. Sadly it did not make the transition to OSX, even though it was originally a NeXT product.

 

[KdParker]

I have used both (iWork and Office 2010) and iWork is way, way behind on what Office 2010 offers in terms of functionality. They will need to play catch up big time if they want to be an alternative at all ...

Playing catch up ... that seems to become the dominant theme with Apple ... too bad.

dominant theme? how would that

 

[gnasher729]

I really do not understand the hype for cloud applications. It seems that people don't care on their privacy anymore.

Even after the last scandal with NSA pulling ALL the data also from Apple (and that includes iCloud!!) people will not change their mind. I will never understand it.

What actual evidence is there?

 

[mazz0]

Because you need a locked down page of cells to be able to compute numbers? Numbers lets you put a table full of cells anywhere you want, the exact size you want and then a chart, images or text anywhere else. So when you write a report based on your data, you do it right in Numbers and it doesn't look like a$$ or doesn't require moving to another program to add text and decent looking graphs/charts. There are plenty of formula functions available (250) in Numbers to cover most people's needs in spreadsheets. I do my business accounting/invoicing, keep track of remodeling expenses on my house and vacation expenses in Numbers and it's so much easier than Excel in my opinion. I had never used checkboxes to include or exclude items in a calculation before so when I used them in Numbers it was pretty cool to keep track of items I had purchased to see how much I had spent so far for my remodels. I assume Excel has the same thing but Numbers made it easy to implement by starting with one of Apple's templates.

What do you mean "no graphs in Numbers"?

Image

Yeah, but if you click on the graph it says "Chart editing is coming soon"

Fair enough, I hadn't thought about casual home use of a spreadsheet, I was thinking of in the office when I just want to work on large amounts of data and I'm not interested in producing something to print, so the idea of starting from an A4 sized document seems like an archaic example of scuemorphism (sp?). Can you do conditional formatting in Numbers? That's an essential one for me. Oh, and pivot tables?

 

[laurim]

Yeah, but if you click on the graph it says "Chart editing is coming soon"

Fair enough, I hadn't thought about casual home use of a spreadsheet, I was thinking of in the office when I just want to work on large amounts of data and I'm not interested in producing something to print, so the idea of starting from an A4 sized document seems like an archaic example of scuemorphism (sp?). Can you do conditional formatting in Numbers? That's an essential one for me. Oh, and pivot tables?

Well, it IS beta so chart editing will come eventually.

Pivot tables: http://macmost.com/pivot-tables-in-iwork-09-numbers.html

I make pivot tables of a sort for my business budget. I have tables of all the expenses for each project, organized by quarter. I summarize the data for tax and 1099 purposes with separate tables showing sums of the major categories (plane tickets, per diem, etc.) and a "total invoiced by company" table to check their 1099 when I get it. Then, I have a line chart with quarterly and total incomes from previous years so I can see at a glance whether I am making more money this year than previous years and what I can probably expect to earn in subsequent quarters. The tutorial I linked to makes it more automatic and sortable than what I do.

Conditional formatting: http://apple-iwork.wonderhowto.com/how-to/use-conditional-formatting-numbers-09-278742/

P.S. The page formatting only comes into play if you view in page view. You can make your spreadsheet as big as you want if you never intend to print it.

 

[MeatRocket]

Is there way to share documents with a person and have it live update?
Ie, when an edit it made, the person viewing it can see the edit

Also, if a manager has 10 staff working on different docs, is there a 'manager view' for them to see all the docs and changes?

Sorry, big ask

Yes, it's called Microsoft SharePoint Server

 

[gri]

Playing catch up ... that seems to become the dominant theme with Apple ... too bad.

Will be released soon! As will be iOS7, Mavericks and the MacPro...

What is going on at Apple,. iWork is now 4 years old. How about a serious update of these instead of a cheaper iPhone? Oh wait, I forgot - Apple's main interest is now the consumer and gadget market, not serious computing any more - even with the new Pro - how many generation of iOS devices passed while we were still using the 10 year old design?

 

[muncyweb]

Let's just hope this doesn't take the same route as Adobe...

http://tinyurl.com/sayno2adobe

 

[aristotle]

No. I think Microsoft pretty much owns this market. I love Apple but no tool is even close to Word or Excel. I hated them for 'revamping' the UI starting with Office 2007, but in terms of functionality nothing comes close.

I keep on hearing this over and over without any context. What functionality that the majority of people use is missing? Think in terms of individuals or mom and pop operations.

Features are bloat if nobody uses them.

I don't care if Word or Excel has xyz if nobody uses xyz either because they don't need it or cannot find the feature anymore in the stupid ribbon UI.

For full disclosure, I use Office 2010 on a daily basis at work for a large organization and even then, I cannot think of any concrete examples of stuff that I rely on that is missing from iWork. Of course, I will continue to use Office at work but I'm wondering why I would ever need Office at home.

 

[Tiger8]

I keep on hearing this over and over without any context. What functionality that the majority of people use is missing? Think in terms of individuals or mom and pop operations.

Features are bloat if nobody uses them.

I don't care if Word or Excel has xyz if nobody uses xyz either because they don't need it or cannot find the feature anymore in the stupid ribbon UI.

For full disclosure, I use Office 2010 on a daily basis at work for a large organization and even then, I cannot think of any concrete examples of stuff that I rely on that is missing from iWork. Of course, I will continue to use Office at work but I'm wondering why I would ever need Office at home.

For the mainstream home user, maybe true.

I work as a CRM / Business Intelligence consultant (Oracle products). You would be surprised how much work is done in Excel. Macros, pivot tables, exports, large data manipulation, formulas, mass substitutions, etc... Enough to say that one of the most requested features is to be able to export data to Excel for further manipulation.

For me personally buying MS Office did not make sense, I use OpenOffice.org, but I see a lot of my clients use many advanced features. That 'Data' menu is evil