Apple May Lose Many Govt/University Sales

[MoTo77]

What are you talking about ? Are the states now passing laws against Core 2 Duos ? And why didn't you try to address any of my other claims ?

Because they were nonsense given my original post.

OK... how can I make my original post easier to understand? Let's try:

1. The university gets money from the state.
2. The state legislature is likely to cut budgets in the next few months (or less).
3. If budgets are cut one of the first things that will be frozen is technology purchases. (Preferable to layoffs...)
4. There is no reason to update any current C2D MBP to an new MBP offering from Apple, because there has been no significant upgrade.
5. Therefore, if the new ones come out after budgets are cut, there will be no purchases at all.

e.g. "soonish" may lose the sale.

Hope that's clear enough. I really can't do better.

 

[MacDawg]

Because they were nonsense given my original post.

OK... how can I make my original post easier to understand? Let's try:

1. The university gets money from the state.
2. The state legislature is likely to cut budgets in the next few months (or less).
3. If budgets are cut one of the first things that will be frozen is technology purchases. (Preferable to layoffs...)
4. There is no reason to update any current C2D MBP to an new MBP offering from Apple, because there has been no significant upgrade.
5. Therefore, if the new ones come out after budgets are cut, there will be no purchases at all.

e.g. "soonish" may lose the sale.

Hope that's clear enough. I really can't do better.

Ok, how can I make this easier to understand

Apple isn't tracking your timetable for its refresh

Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[enberg]

People who think graphics cards and CPUs are not important in university buying decisions (where users--within budgetary constraints--often have the final say) probably have never even been to a university.

Please stop talking rot. The vast majority of computer users in the world can't tell one processor generation from another, and basically assumes that higher GHz equals better. Only a miniscule number of nerds care about i7 vs whatever.

LOL. Wrong.

Boy, you sure told him.

 

[miles01110]

The government won't (and doesn't) buy Apple machines in significant quantities anyway. So they won't really "lose" much there.

 

[KnightWRX]

Because they were nonsense given my original post.

OK... how can I make my original post easier to understand? Let's try:

1. The university gets money from the state.
2. The state legislature is likely to cut budgets in the next few months (or less).
3. If budgets are cut one of the first things that will be frozen is technology purchases. (Preferable to layoffs...)
4. There is no reason to update any current C2D MBP to an new MBP offering from Apple, because there has been no significant upgrade.
5. Therefore, if the new ones come out after budgets are cut, there will be no purchases at all.

e.g. "soonish" may lose the sale.

Hope that's clear enough. I really can't do better.

And again, since it seems you've failed to address my claims once more :

Arrandale processors (the new i5/i7 laptop parts) have just come out this January. Apple's refresh is coming (they never held off a refresh for more than 9 months, and we're on month 8) and is likely to use those January announced parts (hey, it's been 5 weeks now!).

Take. A. Chill. Pill.

And Universities will hold back purchases even if there is a significant performance boost if the budget cuts are in fact technological purchases (which you don't know, the budget cuts might be the cafeteria food).

IT doesn't really upgrade based on performance, they upgrade based on lifecycle management. But since you have no clue how IT works, it would probably be futile to explain it to you. The specs don't matter. My new work PC came with barely any more specs than my old. They replaced my old one because it wasn't covered by the vendor's support contract anymore.

Get an internship in a big enough IT department, you'll figure it out.

 

[MoTo77]

Ok, how can I make this easier to understand

Apple isn't tracking your timetable for its refresh

Woof, Woof - Dawg

I'm so glad you clarified that, because without your helpful post I would have continued to assume Steve was getting text updates from this thread on his iPhone.

The government won't (and doesn't) buy Apple machines in significant quantities anyway. So they won't really "lose" much there.

Universities do.

 

[KnightWRX]

Universities do.

And based on their lifecycle management policies, they still will. Now if you want to claim these policies will change in light of some mystical budget cuts you've been made privy about, then it won't matter if the machines are better or not.

 

[Eidorian]

IT doesn't really upgrade based on performance, they upgrade based on lifecycle management. But since you have no clue how IT works, it would probably be futile to explain it to you. The specs don't matter. My new work PC came with barely any more specs than my old. They replaced my old one because it wasn't covered by the vendor's support contract anymore.

Get an internship in a big enough IT department, you'll figure it out.

I have enough iMac G5s in labs from the "Intel era" that fall into the relentless cycle of out of support purchases.

 

[KnightWRX]

I have enough iMac G5s in labs from the "Intel era" that fall into the relentless cycle of out of support purchases.

Maybe you should revise your policies then. We keep PCs around for 3 years where I work, then drill out the hard drives and sell the rest in bulk to a few purchasers who do god knows what with them (mostly resell them to non-profits or smaller business with lower budgets).

 

[MoTo77]

And again, since it seems you've failed to address my claims once more :

Arrandale processors (the new i5/i7 laptop parts) have just come out this January. Apple's refresh is coming (they never held off a refresh for more than 9 months, and we're on month 8) and is likely to use those January announced parts (hey, it's been 5 weeks now!).

Take. A. Chill. Pill.

And Universities will hold back purchases even if there is a significant performance boost if the budget cuts are in fact technological purchases (which you don't know, the budget cuts might be the cafeteria food).

IT doesn't really upgrade based on performance, they upgrade based on lifecycle management. But since you have no clue how IT works, it would probably be futile to explain it to you. The specs don't matter. My new work PC came with barely any more specs than my old. They replaced my old one because it wasn't covered by the vendor's support contract anymore.

Get an internship in a big enough IT department, you'll figure it out.

You are so far off base regarding university purchasing, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop.

FYI: I'm on the faculty IT oversight committee. We oversee the IT department.

 

[dukebound85]

You are so far off base regarding university purchasing, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop.

FYI: I'm on the faculty IT oversight committee. We oversee the IT department.

I am lost on why you think your experiences extrapolate to others

In my experience though, the gov't does not buy apple machines AT ALL.

 

[Eidorian]

Maybe you should revise your policies then. We keep PCs around for 3 years where I work, then drill out the hard drives and sell the rest in bulk to a few purchasers who do god knows what with them (mostly resell them to non-profits or smaller business with lower budgets).

Asset management handled it for the old iMac G4s from 2002. Staff and departments got first pick and then it was sold to the masses with wiped or no drives. (The Macs never made it to public sales. Even if they were ancient.)

I do remember seeing the Foreign Language & Literature department replacing with Power Mac B&W machines in the teaching assistant rooms with said iMac G4s. They even had a few Beige G3s around running Classic.

 

[KnightWRX]

You are so far off base regarding university purchasing, it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Please stop.

FYI: I'm on the faculty IT oversight committee. We oversee the IT department.

And I work IT in a 25,000 employee company. This is my 3rd such company in the last 10 years. All have had similar lifecycle management policies. Are you saying you don't know about lifecycle management ? Maybe I should forward this to your boss so he can fire you and hire someone competent.

The fact is, Universities and businesses mostly don't care about Cores and GPUs, unless they have a very specific need for them for a specialized application. MS Word runs just as good on a Core 2 Duo. If that Core 2 Duo is end of life, it's getting replaced by whatever is new on the market and supplied by the chosen vendor.

Heck, they don't care about RAM either. We had 1 GB of RAM as a standard in our work computers until late last year, when they bumped it up to... 2 GB. You had to specially ask for more RAM and justify it thoroughly to get an upgrade.

 

[aristobrat]

Apple's decision to spend its time developing an ipod touch XL rather than updating its pro laptop line may cost it sales to universities and other government agencies.

Apple has way more to gain financially through "ipod touch XL" sales than its pro laptop line sales to universities/govt.

Have you seen the margin on the iPad?

And really, it's all about what generates the most revenue, isn't it?

The notebooks are at the end of the cycle. The end of a notebook cycle, over the countless year that MacRumors has been around, has always produced threads with the same argument as this. Apple's notebook sales have always done fine. There's no indication that this cycle is any different.

 

[MacDane]

I think the OP has a point...

Let me first say, that I have no actual knowledge of which criteria US government, universities and other institutional buyers have when selecting equipment.

I work in the public sector in Denmark, and when we buy computer equipment, it has a 3-6 year lifecycle, which means that it will have to have the speed, capacity and other capabilities (interfaces etc.) to fulfill its task within that time.

Right now, the MBP aren't outdated, but in my opinion an update will have to be a lot more than just a speed bump, if they're to stay attractive. The MBP is more than double the price of a comparatively specced Win 7 notebook, and that price difference is just to big to be ignored. The argument, that Apple just showed their best result ever, just makes it more important for them to keep up the pace.

Again, this is how the Danish public sector buys, and I don't know if it's the same way in the US, but my guess would be, that there's at least some similarities. I really hope we'll see an update *very* soon, and that it will give the MGP a new dose of wow!

 

[MoTo77]

And based on their lifecycle management policies, they still will. Now if you want to claim these policies will change in light of some mystical budget cuts you've been made privy about, then it won't matter if the machines are better or not.

It's bizarre that people can't grasp the simple facts and just keep talking about whatever nonsense they have in their heads.

We typically have a 3 year purchasing cycle. For people with the original C2D machines that time is up now. But even though we have purchase authority NOW, we cannot see a compelling reason to upgrade one 2.x Ghz C2D machine to a new 2.x Ghz C2D machine.

Mystical budget cuts? Legislators are whining in the newspapers every day. It's not like they are keeping it a secret. But until they pass legislation, we have a tech budget TODAY. We might not have it in March or April.

I have enough iMac G5s in labs from the "Intel era" that fall into the relentless cycle of out of support purchases.

Finally someone that knows the difference between a university and a private corporation. We do too!

 

[aristobrat]

Mystical budget cuts? Legislators are whining in the newspapers every day. It's not like they are keeping it a secret. But until they pass legislation, we have a tech budget TODAY. We might not have it in March or April.

And if you budget gets cut this year, your machine doesn't get upgraded, and you budget again for next year. So Apple gets a sale next year it wasn't going to get originally.

I guess your next spin is that your budget is going to be reduced vs. cut, you'll be able to get a new machine, but you can only afford a Dell, so Apple does lose the whole sale.

I'm sorry that you're in such a potential bind. It's not going to make Apple refresh its notebooks any faster. Continue to post about it if makes you feel better about the situation, though.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

Apple's current pro laptop line is mediocre AT BEST. Apple is using four year old technology in the flagship 17" machine. At the moment, Dell and others use i5/i7 chips in the mid-upper end models. Only the low to low middle models still use Core2Duo processors.

Apple's decision to spend its time developing an ipod touch XL rather than updating its pro laptop line may cost it sales to universities and other government agencies. Many state legislatures are beginning to work on fiscal 2010-11 budgets. If some cuts that are predicted come to pass, one of the first things to be frozen will be technology budgets.

I, for one, am currently approved to buy a 17" Macbook Pro, however I have an original 2.16 Ghz C2D MacBook Pro and refuse to spend the state's money on an overpriced 2.8 Ghz version of a 4-year-old processor. I'm not the only one. I am advising everyone--across four campuses--that currently has a C2D processor to wait. At least 95% are waiting. Apple's current offerings give us no compelling reason to update these machines. If technology budgets get frozen before Apple comes to its senses, these sales will be lost.

FYI: I am at one of the 10 largest universities in the country. We are not a small buyer.

Governments and educational institutions will buy what they need when it's available and it works for them. The fact that you personally want to wait for the update is kind of irrelevant. Somewhere your supervisor is wondering why nobody is buying their computers.

 

[Eidorian]

Finally someone that knows the difference between a university and a private corporation. We do too!

Keep in mind this purchase was out of my control for the most part.

I do understand that someone with a 2006 or 2007 Core 2 Duo isn't going to be amazed with yet another Core 2 Duo. At the time the goal was the run Tiger on all the machines, make sure the software ran well enough for the students, and the licensing system ran on Intel.

Snow Leopard comes this summer and I'm still not happy about it.

 

[MoTo77]

I am lost on why you think your experiences extrapolate to others

Yeah, you're probably right. People from different universities NEVER talk to each other.

In my experience though, the gov't does not buy apple machines AT ALL.

A UNIVERSITY isn't the same thing.

 

[dukebound85]

Keep in mind this purchase was out of my control for the most part.

I do understand that someone with a 2006 or 2007 Core 2 Duo isn't going to be amazed with yet another Core 2 Duo. At the time the goal was the run Tiger on all the machines, make sure the software ran well enough for the students, and the licensing system ran on Intel.

Snow Leopard comes this summer and I'm still not happy about it.

heck i am still not amazed from my coreduo machine

A UNIVERSITY isn't the same thing.

And yet, you include government in your discussion....just look at the thread title

 

[Eidorian]

heck i am still not amazed from my coreduo machine

I sold my iMac Core Duo to a sibling and replaced it with my Macbook Late 2007. I love using that iMac more than the Macbook every time. I suspect it's the 20" PVA display, 7200 RPM hard drive, and Mobility Radeon X1600.

 

[MacDawg]

OP, what is your point?

There are lots and lots of people looking for a MBP refresh and are either waiting for it or buying an alternative. Your situation is not unique. While you may feel that you have clout by virtue of being a university, you in fact, do not. And Apple will not bat an eye if you choose to buy a Dell. They will refresh on their schedule and outside entities have no real impact on that timetable at this point.

If you are just venting, fine, so be it
But if you have a real point, let's hear it


Woof, Woof - Dawg

 

[Cam42]

They'll be updated soon, I'm sure of it. You can't wait a month, tops?
Also, if you want extreme power, then buy a gaming laptop, like an Alienware. Yeah, it's a dell, but it's a nice dell.

 

[MoTo77]

Governments and educational institutions will buy what they need when it's available and it works for them. The fact that you personally want to wait for the update is kind of irrelevant. Somewhere your supervisor is wondering why nobody is buying their computers.

Tenure/tenure track faculty become eligible for updates every three years, except last year when tech purchases were frozen. (They are currently not frozen so we actually have about 2/3 of the faculty eligible for upgrades because of the skipped year.) Instructors typically get upgraded every four years. Staff vary based on their job. But once a faculty member is eligible, an upgrade is not automatic. They need to make a request. Many--if not most--will wait until someone recommends an upgrade before they make a request.

I assure you that my supervisor doesn't care one way or the other. In fact, he'll be happy to save the money if people don't put in their orders.

They'll be updated soon, I'm sure of it. You can't wait a month, tops?

Are you kidding me? Did you read the thread or just post this based on the title?

Quick Catch Up: When you can tell me when my state legislature will pass the budget legislation AND what cuts it will contain, I will tell you whether I can wait a month...

Unbelievable.