Apple May Lose Many Govt/University Sales

[archre]

Sounds like YOU should try it with powerpoint.

Ts... powerpoint... presentations with videos..
Never tried good old LaTex with the beamer package? Admittedly I'm kind of a LaTex enthusiast and my presentations never have more than three colors... and certainly never videos, images or any other graphics stuff.

 

[KnightWRX]

you are right, completely right, except about one thing :

in a standard company standard computers are pc but not mac, and those who need mac need them for some specific reason, and sysadmins very rarely configure these machines, users use them on their own. and your point of view is the reason why many IT workers would never ever let a sysadmin touch their machine

Actually, we do have Macs, but very very few in numbers. I would imagine a university with a few Mac labs and Macs in the hands of faculty would have the same standards as far as desktop support goes. There's a difference between 10 machines and 500 machines.

And I am a sysadmin, on the Unix side. I'm stuck with the same default install as everyone else, from secretary to executives, which pisses me off sometimes as I'd rather just use OS X or even Linux or OpenSolaris as a desktop. But there's just no way I can justify a special use case when all the software that "works" is right there in the default image. Sure WinSCP, PuTTY and Exceed are crap to work with but they get the job done. So I have to live with whatever desktop support ships out.

 

[MoTo77]

In the state i lived in and the school system I worked in, the state provided funds to the school. The school board determined where the money was spent. My experience with IT at the school, and the teachers in general, is neither cared about speed, or the latest desktop or laptop! In fact, we are Mac centric, have been for years, and I had one teacher, with 15+ years of Mac 'experience', and she did not even know how to make a FOLDER!

I think you stated that 2/3 professors qualify for a new laptop. Depending on what they use it for, the current c2d might work for them anyway. You said they need to put in a request. If their request is for a Macpro, would the IT advise them to switch to a Dell or whatever?

Universities and grade schools are like night and day. There is very little correlation between the two as to the purchasing process.

Sigh.. The point is that (almost) no one is requesting anything at the moment.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

Sigh.. The point is that (almost) no one is requesting anything at the moment.

And when they do, they'll most likely buy more macs. Hardly a loss for Apple if they're all going to buy anyway.

 

[Dwalls90]

Thanks for the common sense and logic? Obviously having a less competitive design means it will be less attractive to establishments like universities and the government.

 

[MoTo77]

Actually, it's more efficient and effective to
You nailed it. This is exactly why you don't give the keys to the kingdom in IT to some self-interested geek with a spec fetish.

It's semi-educated, yet infinitely self-important know-it-alls like this that caused the university to create an oversight committee in the first place. Fortunately the last one left two years ago, but now seems to have resurfaced.

 

[jbl]

Concordia University student here,

Apple just lost one more sale here.

 

[MoTo77]

And when they do, they'll most likely buy more macs. Hardly a loss for Apple if they're all going to buy anyway.

No, they will end up keeping their old ones if budgets are cut. You forgot everything from yesterday already?

 

[6-0 Prolene]

No, they will end up keeping their old ones if budgets are cut. You forgot everything from yesterday already?

If budgets are cut then they won't be buying anything. So the next time the cash is there, they'll still most likely buy... more macs. Again, maybe a loss of sales this month, but you've still not shown any indication that your campus is ditching Apple over this.

 

[chrismacguy]

I for one cant honestly see the problem with giving most education users ANY intel Mac. I was involved in the IT support for my college, which has 2000 students and ~140 professors. Many were windows, but the few Mac users, many were using G5s anyway (The average machine age is 2.5 years for PCs and about 6 years for Macs, just because the only people who need new machines are those doing high-end computation - They should have Mac Pros anyway, and not Laptops IMO). Must be very nice to be able to upgrade your laptop every 3 years

 

[coupdetat]

Well, I certainly agree. My dad is a university professor and he has been buying Dells instead of Apples lately due to how outdated the Apple pro line is. For example, instead of spending $2000 on a Mac Pro, he got a $1700 Dell Precision. That's on a small scale, but I think the logic is definitely widespread. Why pay top-dollar for last year's tech?

However, I'm not sure Apple is really looking for education sector sales the same way it used to. They are doing well in the consumer space, where most people don't know/don't care about performance. As long as college students need to check Facebook on stylish $2k MBP's, Apple will do well.

 

[1BadMac]

Because the average government spreadsheet jockey needs that i7. C2D just won't do.

People who think graphics cards and CPUs are even near the top of important factors when business and government IT departments makes buying decisions have never worked anywhere near such a place.

Exactly. There are a few departments in a large enterprise that would "require" Macs in general. This accounts for roughly 1% of the total PC's and Laptops, or actually less, at many large corporations. While Apple appreciates the business, they aren't losing sleep if a university/corporation decides to not buy a few laptops due to a processor refresh delay.

And most of the largest corporations don't buy the latest and greatest anyways. They usually wait until the price drops and the technology shakes the bugs out. It is not fiscally responsible to buy the newest and most expensive technology for everyday corporate or university general purpose usage.

Of course, graphic design departments and CAD program users aside. Again, that is a small percentage at most companies not specifically doing this type of business.

Bottom line, Apple will refresh whenever they deem appropriate and they are very unlikely to lose any share of the market over it. They have had their best quarter ever with the so called outdated equipment they offer.

 

[Alonzo84]

In my experience though, the gov't does not buy apple machines AT ALL.

The Department of Defense, for example, is still using Windows XP--because it works.

I can't speak for all government agencies, but the US Military buys everything from the lowest bidder. So it's not so much that XP works as it is the cheapest thing they can have that still functions most of the time. The computers used by the military are designed to be used with a CAC (common access card) which is an ID card. Even if Apple were to design something similar, there is no way that the government would spend triple the money just because it works better. That would mean higher taxes.

 

[wesrk]

"Aw, you can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. Forty percent of all people know that."
H.J.S.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

I can't speak for all government agencies, but the US Military buys everything from the lowest bidder. So it's not so much that XP works as it is the cheapest thing they can have that still functions most of the time. The computers used by the military are designed to be used with a CAC (common access card) which is an ID card. Even if Apple were to design something similar, there is no way that the government would spend triple the money just because it works better. That would mean higher taxes.

You had no way of knowing I'm active duty in the Army, so thanks for the explanation.

You can use a CAC reader in a Mac. I've done it. Just too much of a pain to do. And now that I've been issued a ThinkPad T61 with an integrated CAC reader I just bring that home with me when I want/need CAC access to work on something at home. It's quite easy to do, actually--USB card readers can be had super cheap.

Of course Windows is the cheapest, but it's also tried, true, and secure. The DOD has no interest in helping discover the security holes in Windows 7, for instance.

 

[iphonematt]

I somehow doubt this. Apple will very soon update the MacBook Pro lineup to have the latest Intel CPUs. Apple technology is well developed and it would be very difficult for organizations just to decide to switch from Macs back to PCs. I know my organization has always been Mac and will continue to be. Most people don't use the power of the MacBook Pro (I know most don't in my organization) and the Core 2 Duos do just fine, and the i5 and i7s will be more than enough when they come out. Apple is doing just fine as is and will only continue to grow.

 

[DarthSnuggles]

And I am a sysadmin, on the Unix side. I'm stuck with the same default install as everyone else, from secretary to executives, which pisses me off sometimes as I'd rather just use OS X or even Linux or OpenSolaris as a desktop. But there's just no way I can justify a special use case when all the software that "works" is right there in the default image. Sure WinSCP, PuTTY and Exceed are crap to work with but they get the job done. So I have to live with whatever desktop support ships out.

That would make me quit...any company that bothers to get in the way of you doing your job in the best way possible like that is just way too bureaucratic. I get the same crappy desktop but at least I can put Ubuntu on it....

 

[MoTo77]

I for one cant honestly see the problem with giving most education users ANY intel Mac. I was involved in the IT support for my college, which has 2000 students and ~140 professors. Many were windows, but the few Mac users, many were using G5s anyway (The average machine age is 2.5 years for PCs and about 6 years for Macs, just because the only people who need new machines are those doing high-end computation - They should have Mac Pros anyway, and not Laptops IMO). Must be very nice to be able to upgrade your laptop every 3 years

Yeah, it is nice, but am at 3.5 years at the moment... Personally, I travel too much to have a desktop. And a lot of faculty want to use a laptop in the classroom.

Looks like the mods deleted some posts. Good call.

That would make me quit...any company that bothers to get in the way of you doing your job in the best way possible like that is just way too bureaucratic. I get the same crappy desktop but at least I can put Ubuntu on it....

I would say things at the university are getting more and more like that as well. All of the PC users are locked down.

If budgets are cut then they won't be buying anything. So the next time the cash is there, they'll still most likely buy... more macs. Again, maybe a loss of sales this month, but you've still not shown any indication that your campus is ditching Apple over this.

It is so tedious having to spell absolutely everything out around here.

No, and I don't think I EVER said that. But Apple will lose--at least--a year's worth of sales. When a budget item is lost, it stays lost for at least the rest of the fiscal year. People become eligible three years after their last upgrade. If they wait four years, it isn't two years before the next purchase, it is still three. See?

Now someone will say, "Well Apple doesn't care about a years worth of sales."

Obviously.

 

[CP123]

If Apple doesn't upgrade soon, I'm going to ...

1. hold my breathe until they do.
2. take my laptop and go home.
3. fall on the floor and throw a tantrum.
4. buy something else.

Who really gives a ****.

Go buy something else and enjoy it. Isn't that what counts. Enjoying what you buy? If you must get a Mac, just wait like everyone else and stop whining.

 

[MoTo77]

If Apple doesn't upgrade soon, I'm going to ...

1. hold my breathe until they do.
2. take my laptop and go home.
3. fall on the floor and throw a tantrum.
4. buy something else.

Who really gives a ****.

Go buy something else and enjoy it. Isn't that what counts. Enjoying what you buy? If you must get a Mac, just wait like everyone else and stop whining.

LOL... love how the fanboys post without even bothering to understand the thread.

 

[CP123]

I have read this thread, and still don't understand what your point is. You have been asked repeatedly to state your point. Let me see:

You want an updated Mac with better specs than the current one. If Mac doesn't hurry, then they may lose your sale because you are budgeted to get a new computer. Better yet, Mac may not only lose your sale, but sales of schools and government agencies as well.

So what???? Who gives a **** if they lose your sale. Like I said, go buy the windows-based PC that you want. Nobody will begrudge you. It's just a little sickening how people like you think Apple owes you something. Get a life and get over it.