Apple May Lose Many Govt/University Sales

[6-0 Prolene]

You might want to try exporting a 35 slide presentation that is loaded with graphics and video and then we can talk.

I'm always entertained when people post stuff like this, assuming that they're the only ones who do something.

All of my presentations are graphics and video intensive. I must've gotten the magical C2D that somehow does these things without any difficulty.

 

[MoTo77]

I'm always entertained when people post stuff like this, assuming that they're the only ones who do something.

All of my presentations are graphics and video intensive. I must've gotten the magical C2D that somehow does these things without any difficulty.

I'm not saying that you don't do something similar, but again, try it with Keynote.

 

[alust2013]

the name of the processor is 4 years old, not the technology. big difference there

 

[neondrgns]

you think so....?
Well..I was kinda hoping that if more customers hop on the boat...Apple would
expedite the introduction of the new MBPs...IMO...any company would do so...
but knowing Apple...well...sigh!

In one way though...for people who don't need an immediate upgrade...this delay might be a good sign that Apple is working hard to take the MBPs to the 'next level'..!!! I sure hope this is the case....

Steve Jobs tends to exaggerate...like how the ipad was like the greatest thing he ever did...next level probably means next level of Intel chips.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

I'm not saying that you don't do something similar, but again, try it with Keynote.

Sounds like YOU should try it with powerpoint.

 

[MoTo77]

the name of the processor is 4 years old, not the technology. big difference there

Yeah, we are aware that they bumped the speed by .6 Ghz. Hopefully you understand what everyone is talking about, regardless. The BASE technology has not changed, which is why Intel didn't change the name.

Sounds like YOU should try it with powerpoint.

Because Apple won't release a computer fast enough to run its own stuff at a decent clip? Yes, thanks for the tip.

In any event, I found that PP chokes when you push it very hard--not in terms of speed, but in terms of things just working correctly. That's why I switched to Keynote several years back. I haven't tried the 2008 version, though.

 

[logimech]

I have no knowledge of the fiscal years for Govt/Univ, but have you considered that they may be trying to release after large buyers are semi-forced to purchase their old hardware?

I'm guessing their margins of each C2D MBP are fairly huge, and that their margins for the refreshed MBP will be a lot less. Considering their margin is about 40% (ballpark from glancing at their 10-K), if they were to upgrade a new processor, they are prob reducing that margin to about 20% ($400 more for processor/architecture divided by $2000 price). That means they can afford to lose half of the ["waiting to upgrade"] sales if it will force half to buy the C2D. Any less than half and they make more money.

Just an interesting thought.

 

[MoTo77]

I have no knowledge of the fiscal years for Govt/Univ, but have you considered that they may be trying to release after large buyers are semi-forced to purchase their old hardware?

I think they are trying to get someone to buy it. Problem is, they waited too long and most people don't want it. In that sense, it was stupid to let the MB catch up to the MBP (which is has, in case you haven't checked). If you are forced to buy one, get the MacBook. At least the price is (almost) right. What is the point of buying a MBP today? Bigger screen. That's it. Assuming that you didn't want a 13" pro computer, in which case Apple doesn't really have one anymore.

 

[logimech]

Problem is, they waited too long and most people don't want it.

I would actually argue that most people don't care enough to know the difference, nor do they need to upgrade.

Since you clearly have represented that you do, they may lose customers like you. But I don't think you're representative of the majority. (Or even the 50% I mentioned before at that.)

Which also means you're probably not in Apple's core "target market."

Regardless, I'm in the same boat as you- waiting for the upgrade. It sucks, yes. But as far as this thread, it's probably in Apple's best interest to delay the upgrade. (Hopefully not too much longer though.)

 

[MoTo77]

I would actually argue that most people don't care enough to know the difference, nor do they need to upgrade.

Since you clearly have represented that you do, they may lose customers like you. But I don't think you're representative of the majority. (Or even the 50% I mentioned before at that.)

Which also means you're probably not in Apple's core "target market."

Regardless, I'm in the same boat as you- waiting for the upgrade. It sucks, yes. But as far as this thread, it's probably in Apple's best interest to delay the upgrade. (Hopefully not too much longer though.)

Not sure about the general population, but I would disagree that your comments apply to most university users, which ARE a core market according to Steve himself.

Honestly, even much (I can't quantify) of the general population of Apple users seem to know the difference, except perhaps for the very newest buyers. My daughter helped her BF buy a MacBook. Even though he had enough to buy a MBP, she steered him to a MB. I had no input into the decision, but heard about it later. (Actually I didn't know before she told me that the MB had actually caught up to the MPB, because I don't generally follow MB news.)

 

[logimech]

Not sure about the general population, but I would disagree that your comments apply to most university users, which ARE a core market according to Steve himself.

You're right that university users are a core market, but I don't think that "university users who will choose a different computer rather than either buying the current line-up or waiting for the refreshed lineup" is a large category. This is unqualified, but I'd say that most users of Apple are more willing to lose the extra power than to go to a non-Apple computer.

Besides, most people who need hardcore processing will do it on a desktop (probably via remote access). And if they don't, they should.

Of course, if you are a university professor (I forgot what you do), you may have more insights about it than I.

Honestly, even much (I can't quantify) of the general population of Apple users seem to know the difference, except perhaps for the very newest buyers. My daughter helped her BF buy a MacBook. Even though he had enough to buy a MBP, she steered him to a MB. I had no input into the decision, but heard about it later. (Actually I didn't know before she told me that the MB had actually caught up to the MPB, because I don't generally follow MB news.)

Well, Apple is still getting the money there. And people can understand that a 2.8 C2D is better than a 2.5 C2D, but they have no idea of how much that difference actually means.

Ultimate point is, it takes a lot to get Apple users to buy non-Apple computers, and Apple knows that.

 

[crhudy1985]

I don't know much about the university buying habits or the government as a whole. However, I do work for a government agency and my work computer is the same dell model I bought for my sophomore year of college. This was six years ago. It takes me 15 minutes to finally get logged on and at least 3 minutes to open an application. I would get five times the amount of work done in a day if I could use my macbook. And I have to wait for my work computer to self-destruct before I will get a new one and you can be sure it will not be the top of the line. It will be at least five years old. We were amazed when we finally got 17" lcd screens a few months ago. And new hires don't even get that anymore.

 

[MoTo77]

You're right that university users are a core market, but I don't think that "university users who will choose a different computer rather than either buying the current line-up or waiting for the refreshed lineup" is a large category.

Perhaps, but this is not what is happening in THIS case. We are talking about keeping the old one and not trading up. (And perhaps not being ABLE to trade up later, which translates to lost sales.)

Well, Apple is still getting the money there. And people can understand that a 2.8 C2D is better than a 2.5 C2D, but they have no idea of how much that difference actually means.

Ultimate point is, it takes a lot to get Apple users to buy non-Apple computers, and Apple knows that.

True, but they get a lower margin.

And there is NO performance difference between a 13"MBP and a 13"MB--just a metal case and a lighted keyboard.

 

[KnightWRX]

I am a faculty member that--in addition to being a faculty member--serves on an IT oversight committee. You can think of this committee--roughly--as being the board of directors for the IT department. It's not exactly that, but you must have something similar at your university.

My point has been proven. You know squat about how IT works. You're just some kind of faculty that has a fetish for hardware specs.

 

[JoeG4]

And I work IT in a 25,000 employee company. This is my 3rd such company in the last 10 years. All have had similar lifecycle management policies.

I love how you keep bragging about how inefficient and ineffective the IT policies are at these large companies you work for. I'd be willing to bet that the hardware is marked up extensively so that the boss that signs the contracts gets a free vacation house or something too.

Gotta love that form of corruption that drives the prices on the products/services we buy from them up. XD

 

[niuniu]

How often to Universities update their computers anyway?

 

[tyua]

i agree with OP, i have the same feeling
unfortunately work ordered me a current mbp, i tried to slow down the process a bit, but fact is that as pro when you need a machine you just buy, no matter its specs and also the geek attitude to expect the better technology for the better value is far from proactive attitudes, and crhudy1985 explained that perfectly
most probably why mb PRO are not updated as they should be, cuz apple knows it wont stop them making money. dell and its precision line is doing exactly the same.

 

[JoeG4]

True, that! I'm getting caught in a tough place myself. I have my laptops up for sale as I decided it was time to update, and well.. yea.

Either I'll wait till I can't take it anymore, or I find a great deal, or.. the i5 comes out.

 

[solusoracle]

It seems to me like Higher Education institutions have two areas of technology purchasing:

1. Bulk buying of standard machines for use in computer labs or similar, available for the use of the majority.

2. INDIVIDUALS within the institution who are allowed to spend some the institutions budgets on individual items that suit them.


The postings by the OP so far suggest that they are in the second category and as such desire the latest and greatest machines to complete their work.

This is where I start to disagree with the viewpoint of the OP. Why should the University fund an expensive item for which you would have sole usage? From an outsiders point of view, it would seem that the OP gets the necessary work done as is on the old machine albeit not as rapidly as desired.

I could understand if perhaps the University contributed to the cost and the OP contributed as well.

Perhaps OP you would be so kind as to actually tell us the specs of your machine you have and from what year it is from?

While the Core2Duo has been around for some time now, it has had big changes under the hood (on the top of my head I can remember chipset changes such as Santa Rosa and fabrication changes such as the move to Penryn). As such a 2.4 GHz processor from today would perform substantially better than the 2.4 GHz from previous years.

I believe that the OP is more concerned with their own interests rather than the interests of the Institution.

 

[KnightWRX]

I love how you keep bragging about how inefficient and ineffective the IT policies are at these large companies you work for. I'd be willing to bet that the hardware is marked up extensively so that the boss that signs the contracts gets a free vacation house or something too.

Gotta love that form of corruption that drives the prices on the products/services we buy from them up. XD

Actually, it's more efficient and effective to have machines constantly under service contract and have machines that are all exactly the same. Do you think the techs in charge of desktop support actually spend time trying to debug problems ? No, hardware problem ? Right back to the vendor. Software problem ? Just backup the whole OS with ghost and re-image from the depot.

It's all very efficient. If we let staff pick and choose machines that fit within a "budget", there goes all the identical machines we can just image off a server (we keep around 10-15 images at a time for each kind of machine we have, obviously, at 25,000 employee, we can't have just 1 model). If we keep waiting for refreshes for GPUs and CPUs which are sitting idle anyway, we lose vendor support near the end of life and need to start keeping a hardware inventory beyond just fully working extra machines and start replacing parts and diagnosing hardware.

All of that would be way inefficient, especially in an organisation of our size. That's the thing too, people who aren't in IT can't see this. Like you, like the OP. He should stick to teaching and leave IT to IT people. I'd bet his budget needs would go down significantly and they'd get more for their money.

I believe that the OP is more concerned with their own interests rather than the interests of the Institution.

You nailed it. This is exactly why you don't give the keys to the kingdom in IT to some self-interested geek with a spec fetish.

Plus it's not like the current line-up is from 2006 and going to be there all year and not refreshed until late 2011. It got its refresh back in June 2009 and it's getting refreshed again soon. It's just a question of time. As a university faculty, you'd think he'd be a bit more patient and mature and not throw a fit if he didn't get the latest and greatest FREE thanks to university funds.

 

[6-0 Prolene]

I haven't tried the 2008 version, though.

It would be a much better use of funds than buying a whole new MBP that realistically won't give a huge performance boost.

I've been really impressed with Office 2008. I definitely prefer it to Office 2007 for WinXP, and while Keynote is a little sexier visually, PowerPoint 08 is still the real deal, and is clearly an evolved, mature product where Keynote is still an infant.

 

[iLog.Genius]

How often to Universities update their computers anyway?

Not often, I can tell you that. Here at the University of Toronto, we're running the last G5 PowerMac and just recently upgraded them to Mac Pro's and got new iMac's. Heck, we're still running the iMac that looks like the lamp. So to say Apple might lose government and university sales is a bit over exaggerating. If the school is media heavy, they should have a good picture of the timeline of the hardware and software so they should never be in a position where the hardware/software won't work. As for the government, I guess it depends on where you work, but they too rarely need the latest and greatest. Their software is very "basic" in terms of not needing the best CPU, HDD, RAM and GPU and will say that most applications run are productivity software which again rarely needs a hardcore computer.

Also, for those having problems running Powerpoint or Keynote, perhaps it's not the hardware but rather the software. I use powerpoint and occasionally will run keynote and I have never had a hiccup. My presentations might not be "hardcore" like yours but I don't see how something as the "old" Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro's can't even run a simple office application.

 

[Eidorian]

Actually, it's more efficient and effective to have machines constantly under service contract and have machines that are all exactly the same. Do you think the techs in charge of desktop support actually spend time trying to debug problems ? No, hardware problem ? Right back to the vendor. Software problem ? Just backup the whole OS with ghost and re-image from the depot.

I was the first one in my department to start image blasting the Macs. I'm not sure what they did before I showed up. Back then it was just Carbon Copy Cloner or Net Restore. Now it's Net Install since they did get around to buying the XServe.

 

[tyua]

Actually, it's more efficient and effective to have machines constantly under service contract and have machines that are all exactly the same. Do you think the techs in charge of desktop support actually spend time trying to debug problems ? No, hardware problem ? Right back to the vendor. Software problem ? Just backup the whole OS with ghost and re-image from the depot.

It's all very efficient. If we let staff pick and choose machines that fit within a "budget", there goes all the identical machines we can just image off a server (we keep around 10-15 images at a time for each kind of machine we have, obviously, at 25,000 employee, we can't have just 1 model). If we keep waiting for refreshes for GPUs and CPUs which are sitting idle anyway, we lose vendor support near the end of life and need to start keeping a hardware inventory beyond just fully working extra machines and start replacing parts and diagnosing hardware.

All of that would be way inefficient, especially in an organisation of our size. That's the thing too, people who aren't in IT can't see this. Like you, like the OP. He should stick to teaching and leave IT to IT people. I'd bet his budget needs would go down significantly and they'd get more for their money.



You nailed it. This is exactly why you don't give the keys to the kingdom in IT to some self-interested geek with a spec fetish.

Plus it's not like the current line-up is from 2006 and going to be there all year and not refreshed until late 2011. It got its refresh back in June 2009 and it's getting refreshed again soon. It's just a question of time. As a university faculty, you'd think he'd be a bit more patient and mature and not throw a fit if he didn't get the latest and greatest FREE thanks to university funds.

you are right, completely right, except about one thing :

in a standard company standard computers are pc but not mac, and those who need mac need them for some specific reason, and sysadmins very rarely configure these machines, users use them on their own. and your point of view is the reason why many IT workers would never ever let a sysadmin touch their machine

 

[DesignerOnMac]

Not sure about the general population, but I would disagree that your comments apply to most university users, which ARE a core market according to Steve himself.

Honestly, even much (I can't quantify) of the general population of Apple users seem to know the difference, except perhaps for the very newest buyers. My daughter helped her BF buy a MacBook. Even though he had enough to buy a MBP, she steered him to a MB. I had no input into the decision, but heard about it later. (Actually I didn't know before she told me that the MB had actually caught up to the MPB, because I don't generally follow MB news.)

In the state i lived in and the school system I worked in, the state provided funds to the school. The school board determined where the money was spent. My experience with IT at the school, and the teachers in general, is neither cared about speed, or the latest desktop or laptop! In fact, we are Mac centric, have been for years, and I had one teacher, with 15+ years of Mac 'experience', and she did not even know how to make a FOLDER!

I think you stated that 2/3 professors qualify for a new laptop. Depending on what they use it for, the current c2d might work for them anyway. You said they need to put in a request. If their request is for a Macpro, would the IT advise them to switch to a Dell or whatever?