Apple Media Center with Gaming?

[rd001]

Apple will probably just want to make the ipod games work on the itv. Games like bejeweled and zuma. It wouldn't cost too much extra to add that ability, and it wouldn't really be competing with the big console makers. It's just a "testing the waters" move that has little downside.

If they leave the system backdoor open for easy programming by users, we could see XBMC media center ported to it quickly. And a port of all the Mame games. And Bittorrent clients, etc.

Just provide some upgraded versions of the iTunes games and let the indies do the rest. Just don't DRM the unit or lock the indy developers out.

 

[Trip Hawkins]

With Apple's experience with running in emulation they could do an "iGame"

Emulate all the old consoles (add your favorite console here) and a mame port and sell the games on iTMS (iGS?) with their DRM at $5-10 a pop and have a winner.

That would be incredibly sweet. Likely? No. But it would be incredibly sweet.

Even if they just did Nintendo and SNES. N64 too, but that's where I stopped caring.

oh, and by "iGame" you mean the Nintendo Wii's Virtual Console?

 

[0010101]

It is reasonable to assume that the 'First Person Shooter' craze will eventually die off as did other crazes.. disco.. the pet rock.. the cabbage patch kid.. care bears, etc.. and as the pendulum begins to swing in the direction of the next great game craze, it would be good to be positioned to jump on the proverbial wagon at that point.

At present, I think the iTV is a stupid idea. But if you're going to try to convince people to buy a computer to hook up to your TV, you might as well let them play games on it, too.. and if you're stepping into the fight at the dawn of the FPS death, you're really stepping off into a level battlefield.

I guess my point is that reverse compatibility and a back catalog is only important when that back catalog is valuable to the consumer.

I mean.. how many people refuse to buy an XBOX or PS2/3 because they can't plug Atari 2600 carts into it? Not many.

But a breakout, smash hit title only helps a consoles sales if the console is priced reasonably.. in todays market, thats the sub $599 price range.

 

[Doctor Q]

Maybe Apple's cutomers aren't the right market for a gaming device.

In any case, Apple wouldn't be able to compete head to head with the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo gaming establishment, so their only choice is to find a niche.

 

[lyzardking]

oh, and by "iGame" you mean the Nintendo Wii's Virtual Console?

yup, same idea, but with multiple back catalogs. Think Atari, Sega, Mame, Dreamcast, and anything else that you can't buy new anymore.

I think the Wii VC is a great idea, people with money want to "relive" their youth. What better way than to play the video games that you grew up with?

 

[Markleshark]

But wait...

There is already a Super-Fast Media Center/Game Able Machine, and with the way some of you are talking about Clovertown and such likes, I bet its about the same price... Click Me ...

On a serious note tho, if iTV was to turn out to be some kind of all doing, all mighty piece of typical Apple excellence it would be great. However, gotta keep those £s down...

 

[lyzardking]

I mean.. how many people refuse to buy an XBOX or PS2/3 because they can't plug Atari 2600 carts into it? Not many.

Agreed, but I for one am not happy that the majority of my xbox games aren't playable on a 360, the only reason I'd even consider one is for an exclusive title. So now they've made me a new customer and not a repeat customer. Knowing that I have to keep my old console, it doesn't matter who I buy from next.

But a breakout, smash hit title only helps a consoles sales if the console is priced reasonably.. in todays market, thats the sub $599 price range.

It would have to be closer to the Wii's price to work well as a "virtual console"

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Maybe Apple's cutomers aren't the right market for a gaming device.

In any case, Apple wouldn't be able to compete head to head with the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo gaming establishment, so their only choice is to find a niche.

Apple just has to embrace the video card and PC gaming, not console gimmicks.

 

[mackiwi]

this is gonna be like...

those rumour threads that said the ipod was a stupid idea.

In a few years this thread will be brought up for comedic purposes, as apples game system will be uberpopular.

one of two things will happen:

1) apple has somethiing awesome up its sleeve, and it will rock.

2) apple buys nintendo. Its been said before because it makes so much sense.

on a unrelated topic....whatever happened to VR helmets? I remember one game out for the PC around the time of doom & doom II, and most 3d games were playable with a simple patch. Anyone ever use one?

 

[TheBobcat]

Apple just has to embrace the video card and PC gaming, not console gimmicks.

YES!

Apple has no experience with serious gaming, and I think before anyone considers Apple's aspirations for separate gaming systems, they need to get the House of Mac more friendly. It'd be good for Apple and the platform.

 

[AppliedVisual]

iTV is going to have dedicated hardware chips to do all the decoding, it won't have an Intel Chip.

I agree on the dedicated media processors... But I don't think anyone outside of Apple knows if it will be a few of such processors with a smaller controlling CPU or if they will try to actually put a real CPU in there... I guess we'll know more in a month.

You're probably right though... Apple is going to want iTV to be affordable. First and foremost it will be an iPod for your TV with direct access to the iTunes store.

 

[Trip Hawkins]

I think of Apple products as being designed by people truly interested in and perfectionist about what they're coming up with; a lot of labors of love seem to come out of that place, a lot of stuff that's better than it has to be.

Sing it, brother! Apple is almost defined by "people truly interested in and perfectionist about..." as opposed to the clowns at Dell, Gateway, etc. who see it as nothing more than a way to pay the bills.

Now watch this clip of Satoru Iwata and Shiggy Miyamoto, CEO and Senior Marketing Director respectively of Nintendo, playing Wii Sports Tennis with a lucky fanboi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKx1UbYQzNg

Look at those smiles! Check out the crazy enthusiam from a CEO of a $30 Billion dollar company. That is "people truly interested in...".

As for the "and perfectionist about..." part, don't let the smiles fool you. Shiggy is a notorious taskmaster, known for scrapping projects in their final phases and sending them back for complete redesigns. He calls it "upending the tea table". One of his more famous quotes is: "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever". Sounds like another perfectionist we are all familiar with.

Try to imagine Steve and Phil on Stage at a Keynote behaving in the fashion of that video. It's just NOT going to happen. That is why it seems very unlikely that Apple has anything valuable to add to the console gaming market, and at the same time very likely that the Nintendo Wii might already be the iPod/Mac 128k of video game consoles.

 

[NewSc2]

I suppose Apple's looking into gaining ground in the next theater of innovation, which is what xbox360 and PS3 already have -- some sort of media center for your TV. Thing is that games can offer a more immersive experience than TV or Movies.

I found it funny that they said "and now, Nintendo" as well, but I have to think that Nintendo's going to be another Apple in the world of consoles -- focusing on gaming and nothing else. Maybe Apple'll come along and sit next to them (iTV + Wii) or maybe Apple will try to join Microsoft and Sony... which I don't want them to. Partner up with Nintendo! They already copied your looks (DS Lite) maybe a Japanese company'll warm up to an American one (fat chance).

 

[Trip Hawkins]

yup, same idea, but with multiple back catalogs. Think Atari, Sega, Mame, Dreamcast,

Just for posterity the Nintendo Wii Virtual Console already has 6 Sega games you can buy today and 3 more announced:
http://www.nintendo.com/gamelist?cf=Virtual+Console+--+Sega+Genesis

Altered Beast
Columns
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (Announced)
Ecco the Dolphin
Golden Axe
Gunstar Heroes (Announced)
Ristar
Sonic the Hedgehog
Toe Jam & Earl (Announced)

There are also already 4 NEC TurboGrafx-16 games, plus 1 announced:
http://www.nintendo.com/gamelist?cf=Virtual+Console+--+TurboGrafx16

Bomberman '93
Bonk's Adventure
Dungeon Explorer (Announced)
Super Star Soldier
Victory Run

With Nintendo adding 4 new games a week to the Wii Virtual Console, it looks like there may well be much more that just the Ninty back catalog, and Atari doesn't seem that unlikely. Dreamcast seems like a little bit much for the Wii Virtual Console to emulate though, and the games would be very large downloads, however most Dreamcast GD-ROM, ...uh, ROMs would fit on a 1Gb SD card. Playing Shenmue again by just poping an SD card into the Wii would be much nicer than having to pick up a used Dreamcast off eBay, but I'm guessing it won't happen.

 

[gfrisk]

Apple Gaming + Nintendo connections?

Okay, hopefully someone else can remember this too....but I've heard rumors of Apple/Nintendo partnership talks before. In fact, I think even prior to the Wii, when it was still called the Revolution, that there was some rumor about Apple and Nintendo talking.

This is a partnership that makes sense. Apple doesn't want to be in the game business, they just don't want to lose because of it. Apple has never been successful with the games industry, and Nintendo has never gotten past being the "cute" games console. Media and computing is what Nintendo has never wanted to touch. Plus there is a huge overlap with the two companies demographics. Apple reaches a great non-traditional gamer demo, and Nintendo's products have all been skewed towards reaching the non-trad gamer.

This also seems to explain Nintendo's choice to leave out DVD playback, and their vague-ness about future DVD playback in upcoming Wii consoles.

I don't know that it will happen, but it's not a crazy idea.

 

[Gee]

It is reasonable to assume that the 'First Person Shooter' craze will eventually die off as did other crazes.. disco.. the pet rock.. the cabbage patch kid.. care bears, etc.. and as the pendulum begins to swing in the direction of the next great game craze, it would be good to be positioned to jump on the proverbial wagon at that point.

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the first FPS was Maze War, which was programmed less than a year after Pong in 1973. Wolfenstein and Doom came out 13 years ago. The FPS genre is not relly a craze as such.

 

[Lynxpro]

Which would suggest that the iTV is built around an ARM architecture, possibly a PortalPlayer chip like on the video iPods. Not really a powerhouse for more advanced games though.
Unless the iPod games run on a VM, e.g., Java. I haven't ever seen that mentioned though.

Someone has probably already commented on this, but I thought near-future iPods were scheduled to get Nvidia chips in them...which would be a step-up for game play above what PortalPlayer and ARM could provide.


And yes, I realize the 3DO was powered by an ARM chip back-in-the-day, but its raw graphics capabilities got pwned by the custom graphics chips+trusty Motorola 68000 found in the competing Atari Jaguar.

 

[Lynxpro]

That made me chuckle too! I mean they've only been going for over 100 years and practically created the videogame industry (with apologies to Ralph Baer, Nolan Bushnell et al.)

Nintendo was a trading card company. In no way did create the video game industry nor were they one of the first companies to jump into the emerging market.

People can cite Ralph Baer all they want to, but the video game industry started with Atari in 1972. And astute users of this board will also cite that Apple also comes from that same origin as well, via Atari.


Besides, Space War predates Baer. George W. needs to give a Presidential medal to Nolan Bushnell too. After all, his daddy used to get free travel from Nolan's personal jet back-in-the-day.

 

[0010101]

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the first FPS was Maze War, which was programmed less than a year after Pong in 1973. Wolfenstein and Doom came out 13 years ago. The FPS genre is not relly a craze as such.

Wolf 3D was the first 'FPS' I remember seeing, and it seems like a year or so afterward DOOM hit the scene and, in my opinion, really launched the First Person Shooter as we know it today.

So it's had a good run, and the advancement of technology has fueled it thus far.. much the way technology fueled the 'platform' games, and pinball machines before it. But sooner or later technology can only push it so far before it just gets boring.

10 years from now.. probably even 5 years from now, we'll still have First Person Shooter type games, but I predict they won't be the rage they all seem to be today. The king of the next gaming wave is going to be the company who cooks up that next 'must have' game platform, and gets it to market.

Apple is a company known for their innovation. If they wanted to develop gaming capability into their iTV product, i'd expect them to approach those games with that same innovation.. not just regurgitate the same old FPS garbage on a new console.

 

[Cameront9]

those rumour threads that said the ipod was a stupid idea.


2) apple buys nintendo. Its been said before because it makes so much sense.

Apple buying Nintendo Makes NO SENSE whatsoever. So the young company, Apple, is going to buy the grounded-with-tradition, 1889-founded Japanese-cultured Nintendo? The same Nintendo that has no debt and is sitting on cold, hard cash?

Trust me, it's NOT going to happen. Partnership, maybe. Buying them Outright? Not going to happen while the current leaders are alive. That's not the way Nintendo does business.

Nintendo is in best financial position they've been in since the Famicom days right now. No way are they going to offer themselves for sale.

I even think a partnership is unlikely. Nintendo learned well the lessons of the Super NES CD fiasco (which led to the development of the Playstation).

 

[dukemeiser]

iTunes Game Store anyone? Wouldn't that give them a leg up! All games would be downloaded directly to the console! No discs! Apple could undercut the competition (Sony, MS, Nintendo) with cheaper games that don't require any physical packaging. You could start playing the game as it was downloading (which wouldn't work for all games, but those with a linear story line would). Basically the same as virtual console for the Wii.

Of course you could also buy music, videos and everything else which could sync with the iPod.

 

[Lynxpro]

With Apple's experience with running in emulation they could do an "iGame"
Emulate all the old consoles (add your favorite console here) and a mame port and sell the games on iTMS (iGS?) with their DRM at $5-10 a pop and have a winner.

I like your idea. Even before the Wii's Virtual Console (or the Xbox 360 Marketplace, to be fair), the sales of the Atari Flashback 1 and 2, not to mention those all-in-one emulation controllers by Jaxx's Games confirms that consumers would love the chance to play the old classics.

Just add support for stereo, upscaling, multiplayer, etc. and they would sell massively.

Even without the participation of Nintendo (for the NES titles), I'm sure Sega would be anxious to contribute titles, whether in the form of the original arcade ROMs, or from the various Sega platforms like the Master System, MegaDrive/Genesis, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc. You could get Atari's titles - including arcade - as well as titles from the 2600, 5200, 7800, Lynx/Jaguar, plus the computer platforms like the 400/800/XL/XE and the ST/STe/TT/Falcon.

Add to that, whoever owns the rights to Commodore's wares, plus the Intellivision and the ColecoVision....

This would truly rock...be low-cost, and highly profitable.

 

[Cameront9]

Nintendo was a trading card company. In no way did create the video game industry nor were they one of the first companies to jump into the emerging market.

People can cite Ralph Baer all they want to, but the video game industry started with Atari in 1972. And astute users of this board will also cite that Apple also comes from that same origin as well, via Atari.


Besides, Space War predates Baer. George W. needs to give a Presidential medal to Nolan Bushnell too. After all, his daddy used to get free travel from Nolan's personal jet back-in-the-day.

Nintendo didn't create the video game industry, but an argument can be made that they created the MODERN video game industry with the launch of the NES. You have to remember that NOBODY wanted another video game console in 1985--the Market was DEAD. Shot in the foot. A fad; Over. The NES revitalized home gaming and pushed the market in the direction it is today.

 

[0010101]

iTunes Game Store anyone? Wouldn't that give them a leg up! All games would be downloaded directly to the console! No discs! Apple could undercut the competition (Sony, MS, Nintendo) with cheaper games that don't require any physical packaging. You could start playing the game as it was downloading (which wouldn't work for all games, but those with a linear story line would). Basically the same as virtual console for the Wii.

Of course you could also buy music, videos and everything else which could sync with the iPod.

Not sure that would work all that well. Packaging for software is really just pennies, man. Game console manufacturers generally sell the consoles at or below actual cost, and make their money back on the games they sell.. which is why the games are so expensive.

So while they could definitely offer the games for sale via download, you might not have a lot of people feeling real comfortable paying $50+ a game and not have a hard copy.

Having the disk in your hands is what it's all about for the customer. Makes it easy to take the game to a friends house without lugging your machine over too.. if the system barfs, you still have your game.. and if you get tired of the game, you can sell it to the local used game shop, or get credit twards the purchase of another title.

Not to mention downloading 4GB's isn't all that quick or pleasurable an experience for a lot of folks.

 

[Trip Hawkins]

...as the pendulum begins to swing in the direction of the next great game craze, it would be good to be positioned to jump on the proverbial wagon at that point.

Yes, but how is Apple positioned to add value that people will pay for in any way that the others in the console market aren't? Any ideas?

Here is my attempt at a list from a prevous post:
1) iTunes Store integration. Apple's one-click buying experience via a desktop machine certainly beats Ninty's/Sony's web-browser-on-your-TV approach, and MS's "how-many-times-am-I-going-to-have-to-press-down-on-this-dpad-to-find-what-I-want-to-buy-?" approach to downloadable games.
2) TBD???
3) TBD???

anyone willing to venture a guess past #1?