Apple Media Center with Gaming?

[Trip Hawkins]

Apple is a company known for their innovation. If they wanted to develop gaming capability into their iTV product, i'd expect them to approach those games with that same innovation.. not just regurgitate the same old FPS garbage on a new console.

Agreed, but are you willing to venture a guess as to what that innovation is?

 

[Trip Hawkins]

1) apple has somethiing awesome up its sleeve, and it will rock.

Again, are you willing to venture a guess as to what that "somethiing" will be?

I guess the double i's in "somethiing" disclose which console vendor has your mindshare, so in advance, you can't just say Apple will copy the Nintendo Wii. Whatever you propose has to be a value-add above and beyond the Wii.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

All you console lovers seem to forget the greatest gaming machine and platform on the planet. Its called the PC. You can download games for it today, you can still buy them in packages in stores, it has the largest number of titles period, its upgradeable. Apple not paying attention to this is as stupid as not paying attention to the TV.

 

[0010101]

Yes, but how is Apple positioned to add value that people will pay for in any way that the others in the console market aren't? Any ideas?

Well that's the thing. The way Apple would 'add value' to their console would be, aside from the iTV features, having developed that next 'must have' game.

The truth is, Nintendo would have tanked in the home console market years ago if it didn't have it's widely popular Zelda and Mario franchises that were only available on THEIR machine.

That's the only way I see Apple pulling off a iTV/Game console.. by using their established nack for making pretty OSes and cases to cook up that next 'must have' game.. and making it only available on THEIR platform.

 

[Lynxpro]

Actually, according to Wikipedia, the first FPS was Maze War, which was programmed less than a year after Pong in 1973. Wolfenstein and Doom came out 13 years ago. The FPS genre is not relly a craze as such.

But in terms of multiplayer FPS, MIDI Maze predates Wolfenstein. That was something back-in-the-day, fighting against 16 other players on Atari STs linked via the MIDI ports.

The game was later known as Faceball 2000 when it was ported to the various consoles.

 

[j26]

Not sure that would work all that well. Packaging for software is really just pennies, man. Game console manufacturers generally sell the consoles at or below actual cost, and make their money back on the games they sell.. which is why the games are so expensive.

So while they could definitely offer the games for sale via download, you might not have a lot of people feeling real comfortable paying $50+ a game and not have a hard copy.

Just a thought here. The packaging costs pennies, but how much does distribution cost? When you account for retailers margin, distribution, and stock overheads, I reckon that must easily come up to half the cost of a game. So say the seller of the game is making $25. If the online retailer could sell that same game for $40 and as part of the service send out a hard copy, manual etc, the game maker is still making more and the consumer is saving too. It would also get around shortages of popular games as anyone could easily download the game and wouldn't be too fussed on getting the discs until a few days later.
When the Wii launched I seem to remember threads here and there about how some games weren't easy to find. Downloading would get around that.

This is all academic to me - I'm not a gamer, but it does seem that if you optimise the distribution channels, everyone gains.

 

[0010101]

Agreed, but are you willing to venture a guess as to what that innovation is?

If I were, i'd be running out and getting a patent/copyright on it, not blabbing about it on the internet!

This is all speculative.. since the only thing i've actually heard Apple is 'for sure' cooking up is the iTV thing.. but it isn't much of a stretch so think that if they're going to make a box that connects to a TV, that they might cook up a game or two to play on it.

I'll just say that for the iTV to really take off.. it's going to need something cool.. and to be a commercial sucess, it'll need something everybody just has to have.

In the same way the Tetris, Mario, and Zelda really pushed NES sales.

 

[Lynxpro]

Nintendo didn't create the video game industry, but an argument can be made that they created the MODERN video game industry with the launch of the NES. You have to remember that NOBODY wanted another video game console in 1985--the Market was DEAD. Shot in the foot. A fad; Over. The NES revitalized home gaming and pushed the market in the direction it is today.

That is what the stupid pundits said about the collapse at the time. That video games were a fad. I knew it wasn't over and so did all the other kids of that era. I was waiting for the 7800 to debut back in 1984 when it was promised, thank you very much. But thanks to Atari's "restructuring", I didn't get one until 1986 when the Tramiel family decided it would be a good idea to finally release the fully completed console after the NES hit the American market.

So no, Nintendo did not create the modern game industry. They jumped in when the other traditional heavy-weights were in retreat and a vacuum existed. Had Atari not been sold by Warner Communications, there would be no modern Nintendo company because it would have remained only a power house in Japan because Atari would have kept them locked out of the North American and European markets.

 

[joeshell383]

Merger?

I call a merger with Nintendo. The Wii and DS fit like gloves into Apple. Apple-like design (iPod-esque), Apple-like innovation (sensor system and touch screen/dual screens). The iTV2 will fold into the Wii, bringing a formidable competitor to PS3 and XBOX 360 (media+games). The DS/GB micro/GBA SP fold into iPod/iPhone bringing a formadable competitor to PSP (media + games) After all, it seems like there has only been enough room for three home consoles per generation (lately).

*** IT IS UNLIKELY BECAUSE NINTENDO HAS A HIGH MARKET CAPITALIZATION***

 

[Lynxpro]

iTunes Game Store anyone? Wouldn't that give them a leg up! All games would be downloaded directly to the console! No discs! Apple could undercut the competition (Sony, MS, Nintendo) with cheaper games that don't require any physical packaging. You could start playing the game as it was downloading (which wouldn't work for all games, but those with a linear story line would). Basically the same as virtual console for the Wii.

As I said in the earlier thread, Apple would be halfway there if they purchased the Steam service from Valve. Either Apple or Google should buy it just as a means of keeping Microsoft's ambitions at [Michael] bay.

 

[0010101]

Just a thought here. The packaging costs pennies, but how much does distribution cost? When you account for retailers margin, distribution, and stock overheads, I reckon that must easily come up to half the cost of a game. So say the seller of the game is making $25. If the online retailer could sell that same game for $40 and as part of the service send out a hard copy, manual etc, the game maker is still making more and the consumer is saving too. It would also get around shortages of popular games as anyone could easily download the game and wouldn't be too fussed on getting the discs until a few days later.
When the Wii launched I seem to remember threads here and there about how some games weren't easy to find. Downloading would get around that.

Retailer margin on most console game software is pretty low.. maybe 15% and general distribution/delivery costs are generally absorbed by the retailer.

So if you cut out all the packaging, and the 'middleman', and relied on 'digital delivery' to the end user, you'd be shaving maybe 20% of the price.. but when you take into account the additional costs of bandwidth, server space, servers to host the downloads.. you pretty much end up tacking that cost right back on to the product.

Retailers aren't going to be interested in just selling the console, anyway. That 15% profit per game really adds up when you sell in volume.. and makes carrying the console more attractive to them.

Customers aren't going to be interested in buying a console, then going home with NO GAMES and have to download games for the next week.

Not to mention the other issues.. customers wanting a hard copy, printed documentation, and something they can sell to re-coup some of their investment when they get tired of the game.

 

[Sabenth]

Simple logic here really xbox ps3 offer content galore the itv wont cut the mustard with a remote now the wii on the other hand has just proven a remote can actualy bloody work so apples gona jump on this band wagon without a doubt

 

[ipedro]

A quick Google search produced this result:

Nice!

That said, I'm of the opinion that raw computing for a game will happen on the Mac which will be streamed to your TV via iTV.

Apple is in the business of selling Mac's and iPod's. Their strategy has been to strengthen each of those, not create new products that cannibalize their 2 pillars.

Apple will want to sell more Mac's by making them more attractive to gamers and allow these people to play games on their TV. This can be achieved with existing technology: Mac + iTV.

I expect Leopard to include a Core Gaming engine.

 

[gkarris]

That iPlay looks like one of those small desktop office shredders...

 

[AppliedVisual]

That iPlay looks like one of those small desktop office shredders...

I was thinking the same thing. And the half-cylinder shape makes no sense... Lots of wasted space there. Also, who wants a cord on their controller these days... That's so last year.

 

[paulpratt]

Game...Cube?

I thought it would be neat to see the old mac "Cube" get a new face lift for 07 as a game console. Obviously not the same specs but a similar design would be great. Not really a huge value to the conversation just a fan boy dream.

 

[n8mac]

Old Gamecube: Small square box with small square discs, top loading. Wii: shinny white small square box with standard discs, slot loading (sounds familiar?)

Well crap. I've had a Gamecube since it was released and all I have been able to find are the round disks. We're the 'square disks' special edition games? Please let me know where to get these 'square disks' and I will be on it like white on rice!

 

[Eduardo1971]

Go pippin!!!

 

[Markleshark]

I just threw up in my mouth a little™

 

[rdas7]

Apple Gaming & Virtualization?

Given that the XBOX 360 is a bunch of G5 chips and the Sony PS3 is CELL (fancy name for something roughly the same spec as the XBOX 360), would it be unreasonable to think that Apple might leverage some of their Boot Camp/Parallels virtualization capabilities to run an XBOX or PS1/2/(3???) as a virtual machine?

For example, reboot your 8 core Xeon MacPro into MacOSX/Vista/XBOX/PlayStation mode and then use whatever games you want?

I know there are a lot of technical hurdles, but could that be the rough direction that Apple could take in entering a games market?

After all, it would be ridiculous for Apple to become a games publisher (eg. Sega) in such a low margin industry. The only profit comes from the hardware (which subsidized but then recovered in software sales), but adding *another* console to the mix (Wii, XBOX360, PS3 + ???) I'd say is far too risky.

 

[r-sparks]

Apple = Nintendo

If you ask me, Apple should sniff around Nintendo. The two companies have a lot in common and are natural allies. The Wii is a product that I could see Apple marketing, for example. It's innovative, clever, and unlike the competition.

It's also interesting how Nintendo and Apple have both built businesses on the back of a handful of early successes. Mario for Nintendo, and Mac for Apple. Both have been losing market share to the competition ever since.

Apple doesn't mind being second-place in the market, preferring a strategy of exclusivity, and Nintendo's CEO recently went on record as saying they're looking to be third place in the market, behind Sony and Microsoft.

 

[koobcamuk]

All you console lovers seem to forget the greatest gaming machine and platform on the planet. Its called the PC. You can download games for it today, you can still buy them in packages in stores, it has the largest number of titles period, its upgradeable. Apple not paying attention to this is as stupid as not paying attention to the TV.

I hate PC games and PC gamers. Just my 10 pence. Hate might be a bit strong, I just don't like gaming on a mouse and keyboard. Or through the same machine that I work on.

 

[koobcamuk]

A quick Google search produced this result:

Nice!

That said, I'm of the opinion that raw computing for a game will happen on the Mac which will be streamed to your TV via iTV.

Apple is in the business of selling Mac's and iPod's. Their strategy has been to strengthen each of those, not create new products that cannibalize their 2 pillars.

Apple will want to sell more Mac's by making them more attractive to gamers and allow these people to play games on their TV. This can be achieved with existing technology: Mac + iTV.

I expect Leopard to include a Core Gaming engine.

That's gross and I would never buy it.

 

[Sly]

I can't see Apple making this mistake again. The Pippin should have been great, the hardware was superior to Playstation. In the end it sold less than 10,000 units worldwide.

 

[fraggle]

I can't see Apple making this mistake again. The Pippin should have been great, the hardware was superior to Playstation. In the end it sold less than 10,000 units worldwide.

Well, it cost twice as much: $599. Today people consider the PS3 to be expensive at that price point and more than 10 years ago that price was beyond ridiculous.