I for one, would love it if Apple (or anybody else), would make it so that I didn't have to use 3 remote controls to turn on my TV and watch. I know that there are universal remotes, but they are pretty lackluster. As it stands right now, I can't go to another persons house and turn on their TV (and vice versa), because everyone I know is in the same predicament. You have to be versed in the launch sequence in order to turn anything on. Any step in the direction towards having some type of system that I could push one button and turn the TV on, the audio on, and the tuner on, is a step in the right direction. This might not be that step, but I hope that someone at Apple has this in mind.
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Apple Media Center with Gaming?
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I think this would end up being a much better option than Itv.
But dont think Itv wouldnt be a nice welcome unit to have in the living room. Hell if i could do HD ppv on it. i would love it. and to run my itunes on my stereo.
perfect.
aside from that. I would love something be even better than my PS3. which is a great machine. it really is
But dont think Itv wouldnt be a nice welcome unit to have in the living room. Hell if i could do HD ppv on it. i would love it. and to run my itunes on my stereo.
perfect.
aside from that. I would love something be even better than my PS3. which is a great machine. it really is
Apple will probably just want to make the ipod games work on the itv. Games like bejeweled and zuma. It wouldn't cost too much extra to add that ability, and it wouldn't really be competing with the big console makers. It's just a "testing the waters" move that has little downside.
No, you're going to buy an iTV in order to stream digital media from your computer to your TV. I think games will just be an added bonus. I really don't expect Apple to revolutionize games for the iTV -- I think it's just one more thing to add to make a real "media center."
It sems to me that Apple is really focused on all software going Universal Binary, which means BOTH Freescale PowerPC and Intel Core.
Why not take advantage of recent PowerPC advances, dramatically lower per chip prices, multi-chip capabilities, and UB software, to base a game machine and media center, on a box with two busses, one for media and one for games so BOTH are fast and cheap?
The problem with cell is it is MORE expensive than even FOUR PowerPC chips and the bottlenecks for games and media are similar. Bus and I/O, not chip speed.
Rocketman
Why not take advantage of recent PowerPC advances, dramatically lower per chip prices, multi-chip capabilities, and UB software, to base a game machine and media center, on a box with two busses, one for media and one for games so BOTH are fast and cheap?
The problem with cell is it is MORE expensive than even FOUR PowerPC chips and the bottlenecks for games and media are similar. Bus and I/O, not chip speed.
Rocketman
Not only would that infringe on a multitude of copyrights, never be even be considered by any of the said players, and above all have system requirements that no computer today could meet realistically...I LIKE IT!
Virtual Machine
With Apple's experience with running in emulation they could do an "iGame"
Emulate all the old consoles (add your favorite console here) and a mame port and sell the games on iTMS (iGS?) with their DRM at $5-10 a pop and have a winner.
Nintendo is doing this now, why not Apple?
With the files DRM'd they'd assure copyright holders that they would only play on Apple hardware and ensure that non DRM'd games wouldn't play (no downloaded roms from the web <like mame>)
With Apple's experience with running in emulation they could do an "iGame"
Emulate all the old consoles (add your favorite console here) and a mame port and sell the games on iTMS (iGS?) with their DRM at $5-10 a pop and have a winner.
Nintendo is doing this now, why not Apple?
With the files DRM'd they'd assure copyright holders that they would only play on Apple hardware and ensure that non DRM'd games wouldn't play (no downloaded roms from the web <like mame>)
Where's the love?
I think of Apple products as being designed by people truly interested in and perfectionist about what they're coming up with; a lot of labors of love seem to come out of that place, a lot of stuff that's better than it has to be. (As has been pointed out elsewhere, the bottom of an Apple laptop looks better than the top of most other laptops.) It's interesting to think of Apple being compelled to enter an area of the market that doesn't seem to interest Jobs or the company on the sort of personal level that so much of their other work seems to interest them. One wonders how those exacting Apple standards will be carried on in that situation.
I think of Apple products as being designed by people truly interested in and perfectionist about what they're coming up with; a lot of labors of love seem to come out of that place, a lot of stuff that's better than it has to be. (As has been pointed out elsewhere, the bottom of an Apple laptop looks better than the top of most other laptops.) It's interesting to think of Apple being compelled to enter an area of the market that doesn't seem to interest Jobs or the company on the sort of personal level that so much of their other work seems to interest them. One wonders how those exacting Apple standards will be carried on in that situation.
iTV is going to have dedicated hardware chips to do all the decoding, it won't have an Intel Chip.
great minds
think alike....
I don't think they could get the latest consoles to work (intel's processors are not up to emulating IBM's chip), but could easily do the xbox, PS2 and anything earlier.
The question would be for the last versions of the consoles xbox & PS2, are the manufacturers making money on them yet? Sony probably, M$, I doubt it.
If they aren't, then I would think it would be an easy sell.
think alike....
I don't think they could get the latest consoles to work (intel's processors are not up to emulating IBM's chip), but could easily do the xbox, PS2 and anything earlier.
The question would be for the last versions of the consoles xbox & PS2, are the manufacturers making money on them yet? Sony probably, M$, I doubt it.
If they aren't, then I would think it would be an easy sell.
If this is true:
Going with the Cell processor would be about the dumbest thing Apple could do with it. While the Cell looks great on paper, as soon as you realize that it only has ONE general purpose CPU core and the other cores are DSP, you start to worry.
As a Computer Engineering major, DSPs are lousy for the majority (85%) of tasks that you want to use a console for. They are specifically aimed at a small audience of program functionality. As Carmarck (Id) or any other well known game developer will tell you a general purpose (preferably x86) CPU is the best available option for any serious game engine.
The only possible thing I could see those DSP cores being useful for is video (prerecorded, static) playback and even at that they aren't the best suited for such a task. Again a processor that supports OoP and L1 and L2 cache are far more preferable.
If Apple were to enter the gaming market (late) they would have to offer a lot more flexibility than the Xbox360 and the PS3. They would also have to rival Nintendo's affordability to fun ratio.
They would have to put out something like a dual/quad core ~2GHz Core 2 Merom with 512MB Unified system memory, and a custom GPU at least of the level of the ATIs 1900xt or nVidia's 7800+. Mind you the bandwidth between these components would have to be excessive. They would also have to offer a harddrive (3.5"), Wifi, and a broadly supported memory format like Nintendo has with the SD memory.
Right there is an expensive machine with a lack of games (that we know of). I doubt many would be willing to take the plunge. Apple would have to offer free dev kits to developers and hope to give them enough support to make it a viable option.
I just can't see the iTV as a serious game console, it will most likely lean on the edge of Media Center with SOME gaming capability.
Heiken: The PS3. X360, and Wii all run on custom hardware that is PowerPC based. Apple is now on x86. Trying to emulate PPC on x86 is like trying to win a dragster race when you have to walk with two busted legs.
Going with the Cell processor would be about the dumbest thing Apple could do with it. While the Cell looks great on paper, as soon as you realize that it only has ONE general purpose CPU core and the other cores are DSP, you start to worry.
As a Computer Engineering major, DSPs are lousy for the majority (85%) of tasks that you want to use a console for. They are specifically aimed at a small audience of program functionality. As Carmarck (Id) or any other well known game developer will tell you a general purpose (preferably x86) CPU is the best available option for any serious game engine.
The only possible thing I could see those DSP cores being useful for is video (prerecorded, static) playback and even at that they aren't the best suited for such a task. Again a processor that supports OoP and L1 and L2 cache are far more preferable.
If Apple were to enter the gaming market (late) they would have to offer a lot more flexibility than the Xbox360 and the PS3. They would also have to rival Nintendo's affordability to fun ratio.
They would have to put out something like a dual/quad core ~2GHz Core 2 Merom with 512MB Unified system memory, and a custom GPU at least of the level of the ATIs 1900xt or nVidia's 7800+. Mind you the bandwidth between these components would have to be excessive. They would also have to offer a harddrive (3.5"), Wifi, and a broadly supported memory format like Nintendo has with the SD memory.
Right there is an expensive machine with a lack of games (that we know of). I doubt many would be willing to take the plunge. Apple would have to offer free dev kits to developers and hope to give them enough support to make it a viable option.
I just can't see the iTV as a serious game console, it will most likely lean on the edge of Media Center with SOME gaming capability.
Heiken: The PS3. X360, and Wii all run on custom hardware that is PowerPC based. Apple is now on x86. Trying to emulate PPC on x86 is like trying to win a dragster race when you have to walk with two busted legs.
What about this for an "iTV"?
729 MHz PPC CPU
ATI GPU (this would account for the recent AMD rumors)
88 MB RAM
One SD memory card slot.
Two USB 2.0 ports.
512 MB built-in flash memory.
802.11b/g/n wireless
Slot-loading disc drive for DVD playback
This sounds like it would be a descent iTV product by apple.
This is also the specs of the N Wii. The only thing missing is... DVD playback! Which will be coming soon. when Nintendo and Apple announce that they will be teaming up to provide the ultimate livingroom experience.
Nintendo does the games, Apple does the multimedia. Win/Win, and this explains why the Wii doesn't have DVD playback yet. Nintendo wins too, because they need a multimedia experience like sony and MS offer, Apple wins because they need games like MS and Sony offer.
Wii - $250
iTV - $300
iTV+Wii - $350
It's that easy!
729 MHz PPC CPU
ATI GPU (this would account for the recent AMD rumors)
88 MB RAM
One SD memory card slot.
Two USB 2.0 ports.
512 MB built-in flash memory.
802.11b/g/n wireless
Slot-loading disc drive for DVD playback
This sounds like it would be a descent iTV product by apple.
This is also the specs of the N Wii. The only thing missing is... DVD playback! Which will be coming soon. when Nintendo and Apple announce that they will be teaming up to provide the ultimate livingroom experience.
Nintendo does the games, Apple does the multimedia. Win/Win, and this explains why the Wii doesn't have DVD playback yet. Nintendo wins too, because they need a multimedia experience like sony and MS offer, Apple wins because they need games like MS and Sony offer.
Wii - $250
iTV - $300
iTV+Wii - $350
It's that easy!
With Apple's experience with running in emulation they could do an "iGame"
Emulate all the old consoles (add your favorite console here) and a mame port and sell the games on iTMS (iGS?) with their DRM at $5-10 a pop and have a winner.
Nintendo is doing this now, why not Apple?
With the files DRM'd they'd assure copyright holders that they would only play on Apple hardware and ensure that non DRM'd games wouldn't play (no downloaded roms from the web <like mame>)
That would be incredibly sweet. Likely? No. But it would be incredibly sweet.
Even if they just did Nintendo and SNES. N64 too, but that's where I stopped caring. Didn't we hear rumors some time back about Apple and Nintendo rapping with each other, and some people (names not mentioned to protect the unintelligent) thought it might be Apple buying them out?
sorry, but I have to give this report about as much credibility as a report from the "Inquirer". A generous helping of salt makes it more palatable.
...Then again, this is a rumor site. We live off this kind of fodder
...Then again, this is a rumor site. We live off this kind of fodder
The last thing we need is Apple joining as another belligerent in the Console Wars of 2343. Isn't 7 billion dead fanbois already enough?:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.12/images/pennyarcade2.jpg
Belive me, Trip Hawkins (Apple Employee #68, and founder of the 6th largest software company in the world, Electronic Arts) console gaming is a totally different market. Sony and MS lose money for the first part of the lifecycles of their consoles. Steve's hardware is too well designed (too much blood, sweat, tears, and Apple brainpower invested) for him to allow people NOT to pay money for it.
Ninty is the only one making money for the entirety of the lifecycle on the hardware. And they are already shipping the iPod/Mac 128k of video game consoles, the Nintendo Wii. The Wii already has the incrementally better user experience via the Wii remote, and the market orientation towards less expensive, less involved games.
Watch this video and then tell me what is Apple going to offer besides industrial design that doesn't evoke "white plastic-y Lego" (of course you will have to pretend the 1st gen Shuffle didn't exist) that Nintendo doesn't already have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5cPVP_llfo
Seriously, does anyone have any concrete ideas as to what "Value-Add" Apple would have for the console gaming space? The rumors community is always one step ahead of what Apple ships, so if no one here can propose any compelling areas where Apple plans to add value, then we can assume they will NOT ship a console!
Here is my attempt to start a list:
1) iTunes Store integration. Apple's one-click buying experience via a desktop machine certainly beats Ninty's/Sony's web-browser-on-your-TV approach, and MS's "how-many-times-am-I-going-to-have-to-press-down-on-this-dpad-to-find-what-I-want-to-buy-?" approach to downloadable games.
2) TBD???
3) TBD???
4) ...anyone?
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.12/images/pennyarcade2.jpg
Belive me, Trip Hawkins (Apple Employee #68, and founder of the 6th largest software company in the world, Electronic Arts) console gaming is a totally different market. Sony and MS lose money for the first part of the lifecycles of their consoles. Steve's hardware is too well designed (too much blood, sweat, tears, and Apple brainpower invested) for him to allow people NOT to pay money for it.
Ninty is the only one making money for the entirety of the lifecycle on the hardware. And they are already shipping the iPod/Mac 128k of video game consoles, the Nintendo Wii. The Wii already has the incrementally better user experience via the Wii remote, and the market orientation towards less expensive, less involved games.
Watch this video and then tell me what is Apple going to offer besides industrial design that doesn't evoke "white plastic-y Lego" (of course you will have to pretend the 1st gen Shuffle didn't exist) that Nintendo doesn't already have:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5cPVP_llfo
Seriously, does anyone have any concrete ideas as to what "Value-Add" Apple would have for the console gaming space? The rumors community is always one step ahead of what Apple ships, so if no one here can propose any compelling areas where Apple plans to add value, then we can assume they will NOT ship a console!
Here is my attempt to start a list:
1) iTunes Store integration. Apple's one-click buying experience via a desktop machine certainly beats Ninty's/Sony's web-browser-on-your-TV approach, and MS's "how-many-times-am-I-going-to-have-to-press-down-on-this-dpad-to-find-what-I-want-to-buy-?" approach to downloadable games.
2) TBD???
3) TBD???
4) ...anyone?
They're all copying Apple anyways...
Let's see:
Old XBox: a Pentium 3 black ugly box. XBox 360: A PowerPC white slim box with multimedia (sounds familiar?)
Old Gamecube: Small square box with small square discs, top loading. Wii: shinny white small square box with standard discs, slot loading (sounds familiar?)
Sony PS3: Cutting edge technology, icon driven GUI (sounds familiar?)
People say that Apple can't compete yet a lot of the success of the game console companies came from Apple innovations...
Let's see:
Old XBox: a Pentium 3 black ugly box. XBox 360: A PowerPC white slim box with multimedia (sounds familiar?)
Old Gamecube: Small square box with small square discs, top loading. Wii: shinny white small square box with standard discs, slot loading (sounds familiar?)
Sony PS3: Cutting edge technology, icon driven GUI (sounds familiar?)
People say that Apple can't compete yet a lot of the success of the game console companies came from Apple innovations...
Apple has kind of knocked itself out of the gaming market by many blunders over the years. Mac Gaming is just about dead, hence Boot camp. Being able to run say PS3 games on your Mac native would be sweet, being able to run PC games on your Mac Native would be sweeter. I think they should be talking to Microsoft instead of Sony.
iTV with games
If anything, it'll just be iTV that can do some games that you can play on your iPod and buy in iTunes.
My Tivo actually has some games on it.
NOTHING on the scale of XBox, Nintendo, or Playstation....
PS3 games for the Cell Processor won't run on an Intel based Mac (or any for that matter).
PC games on a Mac use boot camp or Parrallels or maybe an upcoming virtualization software scheme...
Talking to Microsoft, why? Windows game can run on an Intel Mac. XBox 360 games are now PowerPC...
If anything, it'll just be iTV that can do some games that you can play on your iPod and buy in iTunes.
My Tivo actually has some games on it.
NOTHING on the scale of XBox, Nintendo, or Playstation....
PS3 games for the Cell Processor won't run on an Intel based Mac (or any for that matter).
PC games on a Mac use boot camp or Parrallels or maybe an upcoming virtualization software scheme...
Talking to Microsoft, why? Windows game can run on an Intel Mac. XBox 360 games are now PowerPC...
As always with this discussion, I think it would be very cool if Apple made a console. Is it realistic? Probably not. We'll see though.
Here's my diagnostic on the situation:
The Bad:
Ohhhhh it's SUCH a difficult market to break in to, not to mention that it's crowded already. You'd be stuck with four video-game options instead of three... and figuring out which content is available on what? Another player is just going to confuse things more.
Each added console manufacturer means an exponential increase in titles, features and combinations thereof, available to the consumer... which leads to exponentially more confusion. The consumers will tolerate only so much of this until he/she will draw a line and say "anything else new from this point out is too much information to process" and "otomatically" block it out. This may or may not be the case with an Apple console... let's call it "GamePod"
The Good:
If PS3 is the impending disaster that everyone says it is, next Christmas would be a great time to release a product. MS won't be ready for another XBox yet, the Wii will still be new, and the PS3 will be losing market/mind-share.
Secondly, (with surprising exception to the Wii) console gaming has been a very static platform, with graphics being the only MAJOR enhancement over the years. Apple has a knack for bringing new ideas to the table, specifically in arenas that have been stagnant for years (think portable music). That being said, a GamePod could usher in a new era of gaming... that is, if Nintendo & the Wii haven't already done so.
If Apple intends to enter this market, the time to strike is soon.
-Clive
Here's my diagnostic on the situation:
The Bad:
Ohhhhh it's SUCH a difficult market to break in to, not to mention that it's crowded already. You'd be stuck with four video-game options instead of three... and figuring out which content is available on what? Another player is just going to confuse things more.
Each added console manufacturer means an exponential increase in titles, features and combinations thereof, available to the consumer... which leads to exponentially more confusion. The consumers will tolerate only so much of this until he/she will draw a line and say "anything else new from this point out is too much information to process" and "otomatically" block it out. This may or may not be the case with an Apple console... let's call it "GamePod"
The Good:
If PS3 is the impending disaster that everyone says it is, next Christmas would be a great time to release a product. MS won't be ready for another XBox yet, the Wii will still be new, and the PS3 will be losing market/mind-share.
Secondly, (with surprising exception to the Wii) console gaming has been a very static platform, with graphics being the only MAJOR enhancement over the years. Apple has a knack for bringing new ideas to the table, specifically in arenas that have been stagnant for years (think portable music
). That being said, a GamePod could usher in a new era of gaming... that is, if Nintendo & the Wii haven't already done so.If Apple intends to enter this market, the time to strike is soon.
-Clive
I'm sure they have looked into it, they just needed a platform, and the PPC mac wasn't it (i mean, scan up MR's home page to see no multi-thread open gl for PPC). They have the platform now, i.e. iTV and ipod, obviously.
Smartest move i see, and this is just me, is the course they're already taking, which is to makes the games tertiary, and after thought neat thing that you can eventually get hooked on because the platform is with you 24/7. From there, you get dedicated interest. Smarter move than the full on blow out of an xbox or ps where it's got to be just right and have tons of developer support right out of the gate.
I've been wrong before though.
Smartest move i see, and this is just me, is the course they're already taking, which is to makes the games tertiary, and after thought neat thing that you can eventually get hooked on because the platform is with you 24/7. From there, you get dedicated interest. Smarter move than the full on blow out of an xbox or ps where it's got to be just right and have tons of developer support right out of the gate.
I've been wrong before though.