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Apple Moving Toward Release of Logic Pro X?
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Couldn't agree more about the unified window. It's great for newbies and GB users. I personally feel like it just slows everything down and is a bit ugle to look at. I've been using Logic since 4 and would love the option to go back to the old style. I haven't been too happy with 8in general. I have more problems with it than any previous version. Haven't used 9. I didn't like the upgrade cost for what I was getting. Guess I'll wait and hope Logic X isn't an absolute disaster.
Well, Logic currently has bugs in so many places that a complete rewrite would make a lot of sense. The features in Logic 9 are great for the price. Unfortunately, there's usually one major bug making the good features almost useless. I learned to work around these major malfunctions, always hoping the next version maybe fixes one of them. Stopped updating at one point because they never fixed it.
I think I'll give Logic X a spin, up until now it was a very capable music production tool.
I think I'll give Logic X a spin, up until now it was a very capable music production tool.
Best news of all is...
I can keep using my Logic Pro 9 and never switch to anything new. I love what I have & what I can do with it. Just cuz it's new doesn't mean it's better
I can keep using my Logic Pro 9 and never switch to anything new. I love what I have & what I can do with it. Just cuz it's new doesn't mean it's better
Yup. I've been using it since 2.x for the Atari... Actually, no... I've been using it since it was "Notator" for Atari.
http://www.tweakheadz.com/history_of_notator_and_logic3.html
yeah, I remember that crazy MIDI interface/dongle!
Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing what they do. Logic is a powerful app, but it's also a ridiculous mind-******* of a piece of software -- a sort of bizarre hybrid of early-90s and 21st century software design. It **desperately** needs a serious re-thinking, imho. There are many things that could be way simpler, and could be expressed in a much more intuitive manner in the interface. One thing that will probably (hopefully) happen is that it will integrate directly with Final Cut Pro X, making for super easy collaboration.
And it will never happen, but I'd love them to take a shot at creating an interface that doesn't lean quite so heavily on this notion of a little hardware studio in a window. It's just so ancient, and so biased toward treating musicians/composers as technicians. Oh, and the score editor is abysmal. It was pretty great... in 1995. But it's a joke now. Yes, I'll probably continue using Sibelius when I'm writing directly to score, but I would LOVE it if Logic Pro X had a genuinely intuitive and powerful score editor. If I could work fluently either at the MIDI keyboard, OR score, in the same app, I would be in heaven.
Of course, no matter what they do, people here will bitch and moan about it being "Garageband Pro"... The thought of it makes me slightly nauseous.
Oh and by the way, integrating WaveBurner is a no-brainer and in no way makes is "obvious" that Apple is dumbing down Logic Pro (Digital Performer does it). Comments like that make no sense...
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Ah, yes. Good point... I don't want to sound like I'm just complaining (my previous post). Logic 9 is amazing for the price. And it can do just about anything. I just don't see any reason to think it can't be vastly improved.
I'm really hoping the best for you you pro audio editors! Like seriously, I think Apple just lost all credibility with their pro apps when they released FCP X (which had good intentions but failed ), but lets hope the best for you guys, and hope they fix our FCP X soon!
), but lets hope the best for you guys, and hope they fix our FCP X soon! 
ahh it seems my earlier posts brought out the long term Logic users, and I'm glad that the old Atari ST/Falcon and the infamous midi dongle got a mention too. Although C-Lab created Notator - not Emagic as it was to be known.
I just don't think we need to simplify Logic. The beauty of this DAW as opposed to the other popular DAW's (which I use all of) is the deep layer of twisted 'illogical' design that remains from Emagic's design. It makes Logic the most malleable of DAW's and the best one for integration between composition and production. Logic 8 was Apple stepping in and making sense of the German UI. For that they did a great job. Personally, I just feel that it has become a little too "American Bandy". Pro Tools has that market cornered. Logic needs to continue with it's workhorse reputation for it to maintain it's success. If they simplify it, get rid of the environment and localize everything to the arrange page it will become an inferior Live, Tools, Reason or even Cubase.
Complexity in this instance makes it the DAW's above all others.
I have little reason to have faith in Apple with Logic Pro X, but I believe some crazy German leftover dewd from Emagic will have a huff and puff and get his own way.
I just don't think we need to simplify Logic. The beauty of this DAW as opposed to the other popular DAW's (which I use all of) is the deep layer of twisted 'illogical' design that remains from Emagic's design. It makes Logic the most malleable of DAW's and the best one for integration between composition and production. Logic 8 was Apple stepping in and making sense of the German UI. For that they did a great job. Personally, I just feel that it has become a little too "American Bandy". Pro Tools has that market cornered. Logic needs to continue with it's workhorse reputation for it to maintain it's success. If they simplify it, get rid of the environment and localize everything to the arrange page it will become an inferior Live, Tools, Reason or even Cubase.
Complexity in this instance makes it the DAW's above all others.
I have little reason to have faith in Apple with Logic Pro X, but I believe some crazy German leftover dewd from Emagic will have a huff and puff and get his own way.
I'm really hoping the best for you you pro audio editors! Like seriously, I think Apple just lost all credibility with their pro apps when they released FCP X (which had good intentions but failed
Why are you talking about FCPX in the past tense? Makes no sense...it's currently shipping and will get better. Apple doesn't really need credibility with Pros. They make more money selling iPhones and frankly too many "Pros" are full of ****.
Now that FCP X is on a more modern foundation and Soundtrack was always described as a "bridge" between the two. Do you think It's going away because the two programs will talk directly to one another?
I guess also not the only one who thinks MainStage screams Touch based interface. Could it be broken up into bunch of smaller apps for either Mac or iOS?
*note: not a music pro just an interested bystander.
I'm really hoping the links to FCPX and Logic X are really tight. The integration with FCPX and Motion is phenomenal. If that sets the trend then I'd love to see the same sort of fluidity for Logic X.
Note that one glaring omission in FCPX is the audio handling. I think what's happening is that the studio will be able to assemble the proper solution and Logic X will be far more supportive for being the essential audio app in the videographers toolkit.
Ahhh!!! C-Lab! Holy crap, I completely forgot that was the original maker of Notator. Thanks for that, you made me remember how old I really am! ;-)
I don't think it's so much a matter of simplifying, on a deep level. Software can be incredibly deep and complex without presenting all of that complexity to the user in a complex way. Which is kind of what Logic does. But I agree that Apple did an excellent job with Logic 8, in that it brought Logic into the 21st century, without hobbling it. I also agree that we still need the Environment. It really is an important part of Logic's original design, and certainly sets it apart. But it could easily be wrapped in a UI that makes **much** more sense of what it can really do. I mean, those guys were dealing with mid-90s graphics, and they did really well. But it could be so much easier to deal with, given a bit of a rewrite.
Your point about not making it a typical DAW is totally correct, though. For me, it should be thinking through that composer/engineer relationship you mention, and integrating those two roles even more than it does. That would be sweet. It will be interesting to see what happens. I really hope it's good, and I actually think it will be. But we'll have to wait and see...
After Final Cut X, I think I would wait until Apple converts all of Final Cut Studio to the X version.
Here is a preview of Logic Pro X I smuggled out of Cupertino. Much like Final Cut X, Apple has greatly streamlined the product in order to appeal to a larger audience.
I've been in the software buzz for ages. Mostly aerospace relates (radars and what not) These are some good, validated industry models of bugs. Given some input we can guesstimate how many bugs will be introduced and how long it will take to discover and correct them and how many new bugs the correction introduces. Given a large number of developers on a project the statistics "'works".
Bottom line: If the code is re-written we should expect quite a few more bugs, not less. Most will be found quickly some will hide for years.
I think Marshal should sue Apple for blatantly ripping off the look and feel of their Halve Stack Amps
In Fact.... I'll contact them myself
In Fact.... I'll contact them myself
It's a fairly common misconception that a complete rewrite will have less bugs than an older program. You might rid yourself of some old bugs but are guaranteed to introduce a bunch of fresh ones in the process. Its just the nature of the beast: Any code-project of a certain size/complexity will have bugs. Frankly the older app should have a fair chance of having fewer of them, simply because a lot of the earlier bugs will have been corrected during updates
So, are you saying my Nord synth that I use as a midi keyboard is not an actual instrument?
Good grief! What kind of futuretastic internet speed do you have?
My (so called) broadband currently takes over six hours per GB to download stuff so at that speed, and assuming Logic Pro X will be no more than 50GB, that's a 300 hour download...or over twelve days. Unless my nearest Apple store (let alone any other store which would stock it) was on the moon, it would clearly be significantly quicker for me (and I suspect many others) to drive, sail, fly or even (let's face it) walk to the store and purchase it. This, quite apart form the added expense I would have incurred for going majorly over my broadband cap limit. Just saying... I think Marshal should sue Apple for blatantly ripping off the look and feel of their Halve Stack Amps
In Fact.... I'll contact them myself
If you don't get it. Almost every preamp simulator is copied by some brands in logic pro with the design.
I'm well aware of that thanks. It doesn't change what I said in the slightest.
I think the issue is that based on Apple's recent behaviour towards its pro users, people do not trust Apple to do the "right" thing at the moment. Not sure why you find that "hilarious", unless you work for a competitor to Apple's pro tools in which case, sure, I'd find it entertaining too in that position.
Logic Pro X Design Brief
Streamline it, make it only support digital sound, not output to any analogue source, make the interface in outlandish day-glo colours, make sure it doesn't talk to industry standard equipment, make it's incompatible with the previous version, make sure anyone using it professionally has a compelling reason to move to another product....
...if it looks useful, cut it.
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Apple is a consumer company today, but would be nowhere without the support and business of the Pros that are 'full of ****'. Thankfully, we always have alternatives.
Streamline it, make it only support digital sound, not output to any analogue source, make the interface in outlandish day-glo colours, make sure it doesn't talk to industry standard equipment, make it's incompatible with the previous version, make sure anyone using it professionally has a compelling reason to move to another product....
...if it looks useful, cut it.
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Apple is a consumer company today, but would be nowhere without the support and business of the Pros that are 'full of ****'. Thankfully, we always have alternatives.
FCP x is not FCP at all, its another version of iMovie
If Logic X is also a new app taking us all back to v1 to milk every cent we have then im out of here