ArmCortexA8
macrumors 65816
60 million people paying for music which they apparently don't own - lol. 60 million fools. Who in their right mind pays for music.
60 million people paying for music which they apparently don't own - lol. 60 million fools. Who in their right mind pays for music.
I don’t think the numbers are bad, but it remains to be seen how it grows and how it converts. I think most people that would subscribe to a music streaming service have already done so.
60M is simply based on Eddy Cue saying that’s the number. He could’ve rounded up, grabbed a snapshot, or just estimated. We also don’t know if his numbers include the dreaded trials.
Spotify is at 100M, which means Apple theoretically would need to convert 20M Spotify users to be en par. It sounds like they need to convert or obtain users globally to reach that point.
Anecdotally, everyone I know who are US or non US are on Spotify. So I am skeptical on their growth trajectory.
You make the mistake of assuming Apple's target is Spotify when that isn't how Apple operates. That's the common error people make about companies, including Apple. Apple sometimes ends up as Number 1 in a category because they blow away the competition (Apple Watch, tablets, wireless headphones, premium headphones, all in one computers, Apple News, etc. ), but that's not their goal. They want to focus on a quality experience for their customers that produces a profit for Apple. They are content to produce a smart phone that is the envy of everyone else and produces a good profit, so it doesn't matter that Android sales dwarf iPhones.
What no one is pointing out though is Spotify has a free Tier with ads and their premium tier which costs the same as Apple's gets you a free Hulu Plus account included. Hmmm which is the better offer. If spotify has half of the paid subscribers Apple music does IMO it's still more healthy considering they have a free tier and arent even installed default on any phone or computer as well where Apple Music only has paid tier and has that many people because its default installed and no free tier and they push it heavily.Unfortunately, I cannot comment on radio. WiFi at work is too poor to stream music on so I'm limited to whatever I've downloaded.
The Spotify Discovery playlisted tended to be quite good, as was the New Release playlist. Those are updated weekly. As far as I know (and I'd like to be wrong), Apple Music doesn't appear to have a Discovery style playlist. It does have a New Music playlist that's also updated weekly, but I've not found as much nice stuff on that as Spotify. Apple Music "For You" tab has my Favourites Playlist, a Chill Playlist (which I've never used) and a New Music playlist. I'd like a Discovery one, and more of these sort of playlists.
But it is improving. It no longer makes ridiculously obvious suggestions for me. It used to say things like "You liked the Black Keys. Perhaps you'd like this album, by the Black Keys?".
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I think for edge cases, Spotify can still beat Apple Music for weird stuff. Like you, I find that most of my stuff is on Apple Music and I'm happy. But my kids like some video game and youtube stars who are now musicians (some of it is kinda fun, but not my thing), and Spotify is much better for that. So I'm forced to have a Spotify family account for them and Apple Music for me.![]()
What drugs are you doing my friend because I want some if you say they are number 1 in all in one computers(look at the Surface Studio) and Apple News( which a macrumors news article a few days ago said publishers werent happy with it at all.) I'll give you the Apple Watch, they do have the best smart Watch, as for premium headphones, if you think beats is the best headphones you can get..... You havent looked. Now for tablets? Youre saying Apple has the best tablets out there compared to all of the other tablets... no. How can it be a better tablet when it doesnt have multiple usb slots, a micro SD slot, a display output running from HDMI, Displayport USB C, a kickstand(which believe it or not a lot of people like. Real Mouse and Keyboard support, an OS that isnt just a blown up phone os with a few "tablet" features put in, and the ability to run full desktop apps, games(that don't have to be from the store) and an actual web browser. iPadOS is not a real desktop browser.(All they did was say hey, now we have this huge screen so why dont we stop making everything mobile tagged and have what every other Windows tablet has had forever... I can keep going...You make the mistake of assuming Apple's target is Spotify when that isn't how Apple operates. That's the common error people make about companies, including Apple. Apple sometimes ends up as Number 1 in a category because they blow away the competition (Apple Watch, tablets, wireless headphones, premium headphones, all in one computers, Apple News, etc. ), but that's not their goal. They want to focus on a quality experience for their customers that produces a profit for Apple. They are content to produce a smart phone that is the envy of everyone else and produces a good profit, so it doesn't matter that Android sales dwarf iPhones.
In music streaming, Spotify dwarfs Apple and is growing faster. Spotify is now around 200 MILLION total subscribers. But that's about as meaningful to Apple as saying that Android sales dwarf iPhone sales. Apple created Apple Music to strengthen their fantastic ecosystem. AM music is number 2 in the entire world and that's perfect from Apple's perspective.
Spotify is a one trick pony that has hemorrhaged money, and their only long term hope is to get bought out and made part of someone's offering (Disney?). They're desperately throwing money at podcasters trying to create another income category, and they are running to governments crying foul and begging them to do something after they used the App Store to become, by far, the largest music streaming service on the planet, and where Apple doesn't receive a single penny for the vast majority of Spotify customers using the App store.
Meanwhile, Apple Music chugs along and continues to add millions every year and Apple leverages it so many ways that Spotify can only dream of while paying musicians and other artists much more than Spotify, offering more songs, and being in more countries. It's called winning folks!
Last I checked, the iTunes Store still had music that wasn't on Apple Music. So I take Eddy Cue's claim that Apple Music is superior, like just about everything else the man has said and done, as being totally bunk.
I don’t think the numbers are bad, but it remains to be seen how it grows and how it converts. I think most people that would subscribe to a music streaming service have already done so.
60M is simply based on Eddy Cue saying that’s the number. He could’ve rounded up, grabbed a snapshot, or just estimated. We also don’t know if his numbers include the dreaded trials.
Spotify is at 100M, which means Apple theoretically would need to convert 20M Spotify users to be en par. It sounds like they need to convert or obtain users globally to reach that point.
Anecdotally, everyone I know who are US or non US are on Spotify. So I am skeptical on their growth trajectory.
It's even better than that. The $99 Apple Music annual subscription works out to $8.25 per month.
If you fund it with discounted iTunes gift cards from Costco (at $94 for a $100 card), that drops to $7.83 per month.
Occasionally Costco offers iTunes cards at $85 for a $100 card, yielding an Apple Music cost of $7.08 per month. A bargain...
Funny it works out to be almost 30%. Apple's normal cut of app store purchases. I think that is proof apple is using their apple tax to gain an advantage in AM.
Omg, you’re right. I obviously suck at math. Jesus Christ! Apple Music is generating $7.2B per year in revenue!
Why wouldn’t you want to reward someone for their work?60 million people paying for music which they apparently don't own - lol. 60 million fools. Who in their right mind pays for music.
Do you think Apple produces competitive products without looking at their competition?
Okay![]()
What drugs are you doing my friend because I want some if you say they are number 1 in all in one computers(look at the Surface Studio) and Apple News( which a macrumors news article a few days ago said publishers werent happy with it at all.) I'll give you the Apple Watch, they do have the best smart Watch, as for premium headphones, if you think beats is the best headphones you can get..... You havent looked. Now for tablets? Youre saying Apple has the best tablets out there compared to all of the other tablets... no. How can it be a better tablet when it doesnt have multiple usb slots, a micro SD slot, a display output running from HDMI, Displayport USB C, a kickstand(which believe it or not a lot of people like. Real Mouse and Keyboard support, an OS that isnt just a blown up phone os with a few "tablet" features put in, and the ability to run full desktop apps, games(that don't have to be from the store) and an actual web browser. iPadOS is not a real desktop browser.(All they did was say hey, now we have this huge screen so why dont we stop making everything mobile tagged and have what every other Windows tablet has had forever... I can keep going...
You know there is nothing stopping Apple from cutting their prices even lower, since they don’t need to make a profit, right?
The issue isn’t whether Apple is using their App Store to gain an advantage, but that Spotify simply doesn’t have a sustainable business model. Even without the cut they are paying Apple for what seems to be a minority of their subscribers, Spotify still won’t be profitable.
That’s the elephant in the room they are unable and unwilling to address.
Funny it works out to be almost 30%. Apple's normal cut of app store purchases. I think that is proof apple is using their apple tax to gain an advantage in AM.
I don't hate Apple at all. Just because something is number one doesn't automatically equate it to being superior. If Apple had an iPad with a desktop class OS on it, I might very well think about switching back, if Apple hand an iMac like the Surface Studio, I would be very drawn towards it. As for Apple music, availability and brand recognition does not equate to a superior product either.Is that a serious question? Apple is the guru of studying the market, which includes their competition. That's why they don't rush in and have failed product after failed product like Google. But the point you miss isn't that Apple studies its competition, but rather you mistakenly assume that their goal is to be #1 in sales when that's irrelevant to them.
To explain it with just one product category, smart speakers, Apple never set out to compete with the "throw away" Echos or the Assistants that Amazon and Google lose money on, just to try and get market penetration. Instead, Apple wanted to produce a premium quality speaker that had exceptional audio quality and that didn't look like the cheap and ugly speakers. Voila, the HomePod. Apple blew away the competition with audio quality and features the others couldn't match. And because Apple put in a powerful A8 processor, they just keep chugging along with feature improvements. I just picked up two more at Best Buy for $200 each on a fantastic sale as they work exceptionally well and have fantastic sound. Another Apple homerun.
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Whoa! Down Nellie! Take a deep breath, relax and learn. As they say, "facts don't care about your feelings." You may not like Apple products, but that doesn't mean they don't dominate most of the categories they enter. Apple News has over 100 MILLION regular monthly users and is number 1 in the world. The iMac is by far #1 in the All in One market (the Surface Studio doesn't even register on that market scale.) Beats is now #1 in the world in sales of premium headphones which the industry defines as those costing more than $200. Apple is now #1 in the entire world in total sales of wireless headphones. In tablets, the iPad is so dominant, it really is THE CATEGORY. Ditto the Apple WATCH.
Again, it's not Apple's goal to be number 1 in sales, they just end up often doing so because their products are so superior. You may hate their products, but the hundreds of millions of people around the globe who will buy an Apple product this year, are voting with their dollars. Sorry. I know that hurts.
Hilarious take. Tell me how “owning” the music makes a damn bit of difference?60 million people paying for music which they apparently don't own - lol. 60 million fools. Who in their right mind pays for music.
I'm not biased against Apple, I have had a love hate relationship with them since 2000. Even when I thought they were at their best they still faltered, but lately , there has been a lot more faltering. Everyone says Microsoft really shouldn't have lost the smart phone war because they already had the tech out there but never did anything with it. They lost the MP3 war with the Zune because they didn't know what to do with it The same even more so can be said about Apple. They mainstreamed multi touch displays but yet are way behind everyone else in implementing them in anything other than iPhone/iPad. They mainstreamed the Tablet, but are way behind everyone else in implementing it more than just a tablet and not being a true 2 in 1. They mainstreamed the all in 1, yet never innovated beyond what it originally was and Microsoft beat them to it with the Apple Studio. When Apple made superior products, believe me, spent ALOT of money on them. They might be #1 in a lot of categories for sells but im ok with sticking with #2 in sells if the products are much more valuable.
I can see the logic behind it. Say I stop paying for Apple Music today. I have nothing (tangible) to show for all my years of having subscribed to said service. Conversely, say I spend $10 a month on music. 4 years later, I will have my own library with a formidable library of songs built up. And it's there to stay, long after I have stopped subscribing.Hilarious take. Tell me how “owning” the music makes a damn bit of difference?
Even though nobody here technically “own” any music, users with a huge library Built up over time has something they can rely on when streaming service is out of business or they stop subscribing. I will still say this. Streaming is the best service model for discovering new contents. But that’s it. That is its sole purpose, period.Hilarious take. Tell me how “owning” the music makes a damn bit of difference?
While I am hoping for it, I don think this will happen.Great news to all of us that don't care about music streaming.
More people on streaming = prices drop on old physical formats.
I think therein lies the issue - Apple deals with mainstream products. Something like the surface studio, while innovative, is too niche and specialised and will never sell enough units for Apple to justify the resources that went into designing it. I mean, how many units has Microsoft sold even? And if it's drawing you want, Apple has the iPad Pro, and you can now even pair it to your Mac via Sidecar.
Agreed you have nothing, but you also paid a small price for an almost infinite library while you're paying. It would cost many times more if you wanted to own every song you found appealing for a few weeks, so the $10/month to stream whatever is a great value.I can see the logic behind it. Say I stop paying for Apple Music today. I have nothing (tangible) to show for all my years of having subscribed to said service. Conversely, say I spend $10 a month on music. 4 years later, I will have my own library with a formidable library of songs built up. And it's there to stay, long after I have stopped subscribing.
Rather than dispute this, I think it might be more productive to discuss how an all-you-can-eat streaming model opens new doors and opportunities. I wasn't a music listener prior to Apple Music. Till this day, I have not spent a cent on purchasing a single song. As mentioned above, what Apple Music offers is the convenience of being able to access any song I want, when I want it.
For example, I can choose any playlist I want and not have to worry that I don't have any of the songs in my library. It also makes me more open to trying new music, because I don't have to think of whether to purchase it or not. It's there. I have already paid for it (in a sense).
And I really am not missing $10 a month.
Agreed you have nothing, but you also paid a small price for an almost infinite library while you're paying.
20 years ago, I paid upwards of $24.99 for 10 songs. Sure, I "own" that album, but not much else. There are VERY few songs worth buying to play over and over. The Apple service allows you to move with the times and discover new music.
For the stuff worth buying, you can still do that on a limited basis.
Doesn't Apple offer a way to own the songs too? I see that as a completely different purchase.
The Mac Pro? Pro Display XDR? Heck, arguably throw in the HomePods, the tiny MacBook and even the Apple Pencil in there. Apple does niche just fineI think therein lies the issue - Apple deals with mainstream products. Something like the surface studio, while innovative, is too niche and specialised and will never sell enough units for Apple to justify the resources that went into designing it.