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I agree, this is a problem

There are many music artists who have no traditional musical creation skills and just use keyboard synthesizers. Artists like Deadmau5. He openly states he has almost no traditional music creation skills. He is all synthesizers and often sampling.

Music artists are just Luddites, maybe they should be concerned but they are still just being protective
This is where you forget something: in a climate of instant gratification, where people with no formal musical education no longer have to manually tinker with technology (some of which very deep level, like waveform synthesis) to produce some audible output and instead just give it a verbal prompt and that’s that, there will NEVER be another self-taught musician like Deadmau5. And if another one comes up, it’s because they were “AI-luddites” and decided, well, to freaking tinker instead of just asking for machines to do EVERYTHING for them.

You seem to be confusing Luddism with something very different altogether. AI isn’t a simple tool; it can be, yes, and to wit, I even have an extremely close friend, a composer, who’s producing prog rock demos – emphasis on demos, they are not meant for mass public consumption or direct monetisation and he’ll never upload them to a commercial music streaming platform – which he personally composed, line by line, note by note, chord by chord (in fact, the songs themselves and most of the arrangements are almost 20 years old and were put together on Guitar Pro and originally rendered with its MIDI engine). But a random composer using some AI tools (as tools, in the middle of a larger workflow), including extremely realistic vocal generators and instrument samples, to generate output that can then be used to show off their work to their peers, attract and hire session musicians (you know, human ones, which the market, for the most part, demands and appreciates) and maybe then generate revenue by putting it on streaming platforms and playing live shows is completely different than some kiddies – or, worse even, streaming industry employees themselves – asking their instant plagiarism machine to generate some songs for them and making a quick buck from unsuspecting listeners. GenAI that takes existing notes and text and renders them is fundamentally different from (and more morally acceptable than, especially if it’s used as least as possible and never passed off as human) GenAI that produces the underlying notes and text themselves, and if you can’t recognise that difference, it goes to show that you never gave any sincere thought to the subject. This is not about Luddism or technology, it’s about authorship, morals, ethics, economics, culture and even human evolution (or, if I may say so myself, de/involution), it’s a much deeper philosophical conundrum.

You may argue that the output resulting from using GenAI that renders the whole stack, or from getting GenAI output from several different services and combining it, is still art because there was a human involved in the process, somehow, but it’s not. It’s almost like the supposed “author” was a composition teacher evaluating the work of their student (because, yes, school assignment briefs are literally prompts) and deciding to showcase it (and passing it off as their own work, mind you, which would be terrible even in an all-human scenario!!), except that not only is the “teacher” not qualified to be a teacher, they never even attended a class themselves, and the “student” is not even human (the only intrinsically human components AI models have are the algorithms originally written by humans but, at this point, these models are so much like unintelligible black boxes that even their purely human element is becoming negligible or, at the very least, debatable). It’s not human art by any stretch of the imagination. It’s slop, it’s crap, it’s borderline morally fraudulent and the result of technologies and services created, maintained and peddled by complete sociopaths with zero appreciation or respect for human artistry, and I really hope the market votes with their collective wallets.
 
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There's a world of difference between a human using a computer and its tooling to help create their music and straight up AI generated songs.
What about AI-improved songs?
Human music with AI-generated lyrics?
Human song with AI-generated album cover?
AI-generated song singing human-made lyrics?
AI-generated instrumental with human voice singing human written lyrics?


AI could also be an assistant, most of these song are not 100% AI on all aspects
 
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The song Frontier Psychiatrist would be banned by a of people on this forum.


100% of the song (and 100% of the album it’s from) is sampled. Even the vocals. How it’s all arranged is amazing though.

Sampling can be great, think Daft Punk as well. It’s the soulless stuff that’s bad. A lot of the original material out there is uninspired soulless.

We’ll eventually fail the Turing Test. AI music played will not be easily differentiable from human made music.
 
What about AI-improved songs?
Human music with AI-generated lyrics?
Human song with AI-generated album cover?
AI-generated song singing human-made lyrics?
AI-generated instrumental with human voice singing human written lyrics?


AI could also be an assistant, most of these song are not 100% AI on all aspects
All of those examples are the same: utter garbage that should be banned into oblivion. Both the “songs” and the humans behind them.
 
The song Frontier Psychiatrist would be banned by a of people on this forum.


100% of the song (and 100% of the album it’s from) is sampled. Even the vocals. How it’s all arranged is amazing though.

Sampling can be great, think Daft Punk as well. It’s the soulless stuff that’s bad. A lot of the original material out there is uninspired soulless.

We’ll eventually fail the Turing Test. AI music played will not be easily differentiable from human made music.
I’m a big fan of William Maranci; most of the time, he literally takes two songs and, almost wholesale (with but a few cuts here and there), takes out the vocal track from one and the instrument track from the other and makes insane mashups that absolutely shouldn’t work as what feels like a new piece of work but, somehow, do. What he’s doing, something I would fit into what Lawrence Lessig called “remix culture”, has more artistic integrity than whatever people are doing with prompts these days. It requires, above all else, knowledge and sensibility, which, for a human, is inherently hard to obtain as it requires listening to thousands of hours of music. And yeah, AI is also making a mockery of that, and potentially putting those artists, including radio DJs, out of a job (unless people react and push against it, which I hope they do). It’s shameful, really.

Also, people seem to be missing the big picture here. While many keep focusing on the fringes, on what might conceivably be lumped in with AI (rather ridiculously so, if I may add; who’s next? Wendy Carlos, just because she didn’t actually compose all – or even most! – of her recorded corpus, and instead got famous for interpreting a lot of classical composers? Carolina Eyck, because she doesn’t literally touch the electronic instrument she mastered? 🤦‍♂️), bands like Angine de Poitrine are making use of live loop recording and playback and pairing it with a freaking 24TET microtonal double-neck guitar/bass chimera and insanely tight drumming (all supported by a clicker track, because, duh), and nobody cares about any of the tech involved (and those who do, care positively, in awe of the mastery required to make it all work live, without a hitch, and, to make it even more impressive, with added rock star flair on top and under freaking papier maché masks that must make it a cumbersome workout and a half) because, guess what, tech has always been a thing in music and the end result is as far removed from whatever slop AI and even honest-to-god humans are putting out these days.

There’s a reason why such a bizarre act is packing festival venues and even being moved from side to main stages (I’m personally going to such a festival and concert of theirs, where, as I predicted, that was exactly what happened; I’m guessing that after all the viral videos and news that there was a record attendance at, of all things, a Jazz festival in Toronto, they were moved to the main stage at a very respectable 7-8pm slot on the same day as headliners Interpol and Robbie Williams), just go and read the comment section on their videos and those from the reaction video establishment. People are fed up of this crap, and they are latching on to anything that’s not AI. The next couple of years should prove to be interesting, and you’ll see the revolution happen on stage.
 
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Sounds like what people have been saying for at least hundreds of years. If you can’t find good music written after the 1990s you aren’t looking.
It's not an issue if whether good music is not there, and it's not even really an issue of "you're not looking".

I think it's more an issue of how music is distributed. Streaming vs record/music shops, and the near-death of live music, at the small-sized venue and especially at the mid-sized venue level, means it's far harder to promote and get people to hear music outside of "the algorithm", and, if the music doesn't get heard (and bought) it's far harder for musicians to get paid and so be able to continue to develop their music.

It's far harder for musicians now to have the time and money to spend developing as a musician. There are no multi-album deals anymore. A track is either successful or unsuccessful, so music is far more tailored to fit the algorithm and be homogenous.

The example of this I've given is Radiohead - they developed into a great band, commercially successful and critically respected, but their first album, bar one single, wasn't very good, was rubbished by critics, and hated by the band themselves.

But, they were one of the last bands who were working in a multi-album system. If they had appeared even five years later, the lack of success of their first album would have sunk them completely.

It's not that good music isn't being made, or that there are no musicians who might potentially make great music. It's that infrastructure isn't there.

That the technology to be able to produce a "studio-quality" album in your bedroom is an amazing thing, but the means of promoting and distributing the music in a way that can support the musical has become far far worse.

Record companies used to be the enemy, and they were terrible, but steaming and the collapse of a healthy live music scene (and independent/small radio) has not improved the situation, it has made it worse.
 
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Ban AI garbage into oblivion.
Fine. We'd all like to avoid our music services being clogged with endless "Hey, AI, make me a 3 minute reggae track about falling in love with a bagel"-type slop.

You just have to write a clear, enforceable, effective definition of what exactly is and isn't "AI garbage". Bear in mind you'll probably have to defend that in court at some stage when a rich AI garbage producer sues you for unfairly banning them from Apple Music.

Too lax, and AI sloppers will work out an end run around it. Too strict and you end up banning the whole sub-genre of "generative music" including Brian Eno, Jean Michel Jarre and even Mozart (allegedly). - which I think was what @expensiveram was referring to.

Does using the automatic drummer track in Apple Logic Pro make your song "AI" - or using AI to add a backing track to your vocal stylings? What about using a Euclidian Rhythm Generator in your synth rack?

It's very easy identifying the sort of thing you want to stop. It's a lot harder turning that into workable rules that don't have unintended consequences.

Something probably does have to be done - but the "something must be done - this is something - therefore we must do this" trap is very real.
 
The Ensoniq chip in the Apple 2 GS comes immediately to mind. Then there were all those mod files, MIDI, and eventually Garage Band.

So where does the line get drawn?
Speaking of GarageBand, it’s had “drummers” that auto-generate drum beats for years now.
 
I mean I mostly listen to classical music but thanks I guess lol
Classical music has its own issues on Apple Music: Especially with piano pieces, there’s a ton of content that’s basically just MIDI playbacks. Last time I looked, there was no transparency label for this, but once you pay attention to it, it’s really easy to notice.

For those who don’t listen to classical music: It’s like the difference between a human drummer and a drum computer.
 
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Fine. We'd all like to avoid our music services being clogged with endless "Hey, AI, make me a 3 minute reggae track about falling in love with a bagel"-type slop.

You just have to write a clear, enforceable, effective definition of what exactly is and isn't "AI garbage". Bear in mind you'll probably have to defend that in court at some stage when a rich AI garbage producer sues you for unfairly banning them from Apple Music.

Too lax, and AI sloppers will work out an end run around it. Too strict and you end up banning the whole sub-genre of "generative music" including Brian Eno, Jean Michel Jarre and even Mozart (allegedly). - which I think was what @expensiveram was referring to.

Does using the automatic drummer track in Apple Logic Pro make your song "AI" - or using AI to add a backing track to your vocal stylings? What about using a Euclidian Rhythm Generator in your synth rack?

It's very easy identifying the sort of thing you want to stop. It's a lot harder turning that into workable rules that don't have unintended consequences.

Something probably does have to be done - but the "something must be done - this is something - therefore we must do this" trap is very real.
That is the problem I have with this. A lot of songwriters, producers, musicians and arrangers are using some Al technology to make hybrid works and Apple just simply labeling it with "Made with AI" will not be fair to these type of people who are making hybrids and NOT just fully generated songs.
 
That is the problem I have with this. A lot of songwriters, producers, musicians and arrangers are using some Al technology to make hybrid works and Apple just simply labeling it with "Made with AI" will not be fair to these type of people who are making hybrids and NOT just fully generated songs.

Nothing unfair about it at all.

The world will continue to turn just fine, and the music and art will be better, without AI involvement.

Humans rewarding other humans for actually producing art themselves.
Imagine that!
 
And folks wonder why some of us have never stopped curating a local Music library.
It’s not even as much about curating a local library (although that does have its advantages, since you’re owning the recordings instead of renting them), as it is about curation in general.

Personally, for better or worse, I transitioned most of my music consumption to streaming services long ago. However, I still pay attention to what I’m listening to: Almost everything I listen to comes from an ever-growing library of music, and every track in it is there because I decided to add it to the list, usually after hearing/reading about the artist or album in question. That alone is enough to pretty much keep out AI slop.
 
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It’s not even as much about curating a local library (although that does have its advantages, since you’re owning the recordings instead of renting them), as it is about curation in general.

Personally, for better or worse, I transitioned most of my music consumption to streaming services long ago. However, I still pay attention to what I’m listening to: Almost everything I listen to comes from an ever-growing library of music, and every track in it is there because I decided to add it to the list, usually after hearing/reading about the artist or album in question. That alone is enough to pretty much keep out AI slop.

Oh it's very much about a local library.

You aren't curating anything sustainable over the long term when it's on someone elses service/servers. Tracks get pulled, modified, swapped out, metadata changes...

(god I HATE that on the services .. for movies too, swapping out classic/correct posters for "new" ones)

Example? See the next post by @jet lag
 
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“You’re banning AI slop” now means “you’re banning electronic genres”

Very funny.

Ban AI garbage into oblivion.
YouTube has some good all AI music channels clearly marked, what's the harm in those? Of course there are ripoff channels too. People need to report them, most AI slop is harmless when clearly marked. The danger is when it's deliberately created to spread misinformation and looks real but is fake.
 
16 months ago I wrote to Apple Music feedback asking them to do this. This was after noticing on the pre-made playlists that I formerly used to fall asleep to- that many of the "artists" could not be searched up; or there would be one result that only showed that the performer was on Apple Music; no independent biography could be found; no tour history or live information was available; and the Apple Biography just had one "single" in the artist's history.
 
YouTube has some good all AI music channels clearly marked, what's the harm in those? Of course there are ripoff channels too. People need to report them, most AI slop is harmless when clearly marked. The danger is when it's deliberately created to spread misinformation and looks real but is fake.

There's a little more it it than that.

An AI can generate/replicate music because it has been trained on the output of musicians. AIs do not receive royalties for their music. This means it becomes less an less financially viable for a human to be a professional musician. SDO less human-generated music.

In other words, there will be less and less new human-generated music to train the AIs with.

There needs to be funnelling of a percentage of the revenue generated by AI music to fund the continued development of human-generated music.

This goes for all of the arts. Otherwise there will simply be recombinations of the same, and nothing new.
 
I am not a big fan of "AI Slop", especially how it has creeped into and spread into YouTube and Facebook feeds, the bogus maps, three-legged people, misleading illustrations, blatent falsehoods, etc. I do support Apple and everybody else in labeling anything that is at least partially generated by AI. But I would have to say that so much human-generated music is so overproduced and derivative, that much of the AI-Generated music that I do listen to actually sounds better than so much recent non-AI music. Small wonder that current popular music is so moribound. The bottom line is to allow AI music to exist, but label it accordingly.
 
Classical music has its own issues on Apple Music: Especially with piano pieces, there’s a ton of content that’s basically just MIDI playbacks. Last time I looked, there was no transparency label for this, but once you pay attention to it, it’s really easy to notice.

For those who don’t listen to classical music: It’s like the difference between a human drummer and a drum computer.
I think I've noticed some but it's not the end of the world... It's not a real concert and on some speakers I won't even notice !
 
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