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As an individual who resists AI infiltration in human existence and rejects state surveillance, I am reminded of the famous story of the unwell person who took hammer to the foot of the David statue 30 years ago because they found it vulgar and not artful.
We people have bigger fish to fry than bicker on what is and what is not artful or whatever ticks or doesn't ideologic boxes. That's a broad brush to be sure- Art is art if the artist says so. Tastes vary and that is good.
Music is one of the most fundamental pieces of human existence. It's one of the few things we do that other animals don't. Replacing human music with AI is being pushed by exactly the same people who push AI infiltration into human existence and state surveillance. The goal is the same.
 
The time will come when AI content becomes undetectable.
As far as I'm concerned, great music fell ill in the 1990s and died with the new century. Pretty much everything since then has been insipid and mind-numbing.
Gee thanks. As a musician I love hearing my music is invalid because of the decade it was created in by people who never even made the effort to find or listen to it.

Did you ever think maybe the reason popular music isn't that good is because too many people stop looking for new music once they hit 30 and decide every single new song is terrible?
 
No there isn’t. It’s just an evolution. We had to sample by recording. Sound engineers stole sounds from the world around them. Sometimes they outright sampled copyright material without permission. Now we sample by teaching a computer how to simulate the sound.

Logic Pro itself has AI tools built in and more will come, so you immediately lost the argument.

People who resist evolutions in technology always end up with bad arguments and losing positions. They sit their seething with hatred and misinformation, telling outrageous and obnoxious lies so that others cannot learn new things, trying to impose their elitism and backwardness on the rest of us.

How about this really simple option. You have no right to tell what people can or cannot do and if you don’t like what they do you have lots of choice. You can turn away or you can spend your money elsewhere.

But you do not have a right to force yourself on others otherwise dear sir you are asking for a world of pain when people start forcing themselves on you because you said that kind of behaviour is ok.
There is a massive difference between using a synth and generating the whole thing by stealing every song ever made.

The one who’s forced itself on others is AI, stealing everything human-made to make pathetic slop.

If you call that elitism and backwardness, I’m fine with it.

Ban everything. Ban it forever.
 
Easy: anything made by an LLM tool.
Cue argument over whether a music-generating AI counts as a large Language model… and remember, it’s the marketing and legal departments of OpenAI you’ll have to argue with, not me.

Then, how are you going to detect it if the “artist” doesn’t own up? AI detectors have a pretty high false positive rate….

Not saying it’s impossible, but there’s no “easy” about it.
 
Cue argument over whether a music-generating AI counts as a large Language model… and remember, it’s the marketing and legal departments of OpenAI you’ll have to argue with, not me.
Apple controls the platform.
Then, how are you going to detect it if the “artist” doesn’t own up? AI detectors have a pretty high false positive rate….

Not saying it’s impossible, but there’s no “easy” about it.
I agree with this though, it’s difficult. I hope people can figure this out.

I’d love it if the incentive were a one-strike rule though.

Caught once, banned forever without recourse.
 
There’s a huge difference between using samples, synths and some AI workflow tools to create music yourself, and asking a computer to do everything for you, which requires no creativity or talent whatsoever. Just a prompt.

All generated by scraping music stolen from existing musicians.

But, merits or not of using AI to generate a song aside, another issue is the sheer volume of slop that is being churned out is drowning out music written by real humans. Destroying their already dwindling earnings, and potentially limiting the future career choices of genuinely talented young musicians.

A real song can take anything from a few hours to a few weeks to finish, AI can vomit out hundreds of thousands of tracks in that time. What chance does a real musician have against that onslaught?

Previous advances in music have always still required a human to play, manipulate or reinterpret sound, whether through instruments, samplers, or even chopping up loops.

AI is the first time none of that is required, human input is reduced to a text message.

Totally AI generated music should not be allowed on any platform where it actively reduces the income of real people trying to earn a living.
But that is what I was trying to explain about hybrid songs, meaning real songwriters, producers, musicians and arrangers using their OWN WORKS and just use AI as a tool to enhance their work and yet some people still think it's trash just because they used AI as a tool and not just generating songs at the push of a button. So you can't win with these people who think like this.
 
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I think I've noticed some but it's not the end of the world... It's not a real concert and on some speakers I won't even notice !
To me, mechanical performances just sound flat. After all, the sheet music of a classical piece isn’t meant to be executed exactly: It’s mostly a guideline that each performer/conductor can use as the basis for their own interpretation.

With a computer playing the notes, there is no interpretation. It’s like listening to poetry being recited by an AI voice.
 
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Tell us more about this "enhancement" ...

How?
What does that look like?

Please explain some more.
🙏
I'm talking about taking what you had written, produced, played on a instrument yourself and use AI as a tool to make it sound better, add layers to your songs and/or mix and master with Al technology.

I am not talking about people who just go and text in what song they want written and push a button. That is not creatively to me and those types of songs generated could be copy written.
 
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I'm talking about taking what you had written, produced, played on a instrument yourself and use AI as a tool to make it sound better, add layers to your songs and/or mix and master with Al technology.

I am not talking about people who just go and text in what song they want written and push a button. That is not creatively to me and those types of songs generated could be copy written.
But is it really the persons creation if the AI is involved? I mean, sure, it could be, but I think that if the user just gives the AI certain sounds to work with, not a semi-completed music file, then is it truly made 85% by the human? I don't know, I certainly don't think so. Sure, you could argue that there are equalizers, which is just program, but that is on a whole different level from Artificial Intelligence.
 
But is it really the persons creation if the AI is involved? I mean, sure, it could be, but I think that if the user just gives the AI certain sounds to work with, not a semi-completed music file, then is it truly made 85% by the human? I don't know, I certainly don't think so. Sure, you could argue that there are equalizers, which is just program, but that is on a whole different level from Artificial Intelligence.
You can not be serious, right? A person write a song (compose the music and wrote the lyrics that can be copy written), played instruments of that song or made the beat on a MPC or FL Studio, then sing out the lyrics of that song and you are going to turn around and dismiss the song as not having human involvement and not the person's creation because that same song use some type of AI tool?

Am I living in the twilight zone? Once again you can not be serious
 
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You can not be serious, right? A person write a song (compose the music and wrote the lyrics that can be copy written), played instruments of that song or made the beat on a MPC or FL Studio, then sing out the lyrics of that song and you are going to turn around and dismiss the song as not having human involvement and not the person's creation because that same song use some type of AI tool?

Am I living in the twilight zone? Once again you can not be serious
If you’re talking about having a plugin whose effect uses AI which is a small component of the sound, and the song was composed and recorded by a human, sure. But the conversation is about generative AI, and not about trying to find edge cases where AI might be ok.
 
It’s not human art by any stretch of the imagination. It’s slop, it’s crap, it’s borderline morally fraudulent and the result of technologies and services created, maintained and peddled by complete sociopaths with zero appreciation or respect for human artistry, and I really hope the market votes with their collective wallets.

Yeah right, every other industry and profession can and should be disrupted by computers and AI but Music artists are special.

Write one hit and live on the royalties for life while protecting their copyright in an absolutely draconian manner. YT creators are absolutely paranoid about music, scared of even walk in shopping malls etc in case there is background music playing.

AI music is coming whether musicians care or not. soon you won’t be able to tell the difference.

I know far less about the music creation process than deadmau5, why can’t I have a music career? Really why not? If there are tools to help me why not?
 
If you’re talking about having a plugin whose effect uses AI which is a small component of the sound, and the song was composed and recorded by a human, sure. But the conversation is about generative AI, and not about trying to find edge cases where AI might be ok.
Yeah but there are people on here saying that any involvement of AI even if it's just for enhancing your own work is trash and should be banned.

That is what I am pushing back on and defending hybrid songs, especially when more major artists, producers, songwriters, arrangers, musicians and record labels started to use AI as a tool for their own work.

By that logic, Apple and Spotify will have to banned music from the major artists too who uses AI as just a tool like The Beatles (Paul and Ringo) did this past year.
 
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Yeah but there are people on here saying that any involvement of AI even if it's just for enhancing your own work is trash and should be banned.

That is what I am pushing back on and defending hybrid songs, especially when more major artists, producers, songwriters, arrangers, musicians and record labels started to use AI as a tool for their own work.

By that logic, Apple and Spotify will have to banned music from the major artists too who uses AI as just a tool like The Beatles (Paul and Ringo) did this past year.
Let me make this clear: If the AI just makes small changes to the song that a human created, instead of creating an entire song based off of the users input, then it is considered as mostly human made. But if it created almost entirely by the AI, then it therefore is considered as mostly AI created.
 
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Yeah but there are people on here saying that any involvement of AI even if it's just for enhancing your own work is trash and should be banned.

That is what I am pushing back on and defending hybrid songs, especially when more major artists, producers, songwriters, arrangers, musicians and record labels started to use AI as a tool for their own work.

By that logic, Apple and Spotify will have to banned music from the major artists too who uses AI as just a tool like The Beatles (Paul and Ringo) did this past year.
I think the issue is a bit semantic, because when you say 'hybrid song', we’re not thinking of an album that was mastered with one of the plugins using AI to do its thing. We're envisaging a song that has entire parts that are made with generative AI, even if it was written and partially performed by humans.
 
Oh it's very much about a local library.

You aren't curating anything sustainable over the long term when it's on someone elses service/servers. Tracks get pulled, modified, swapped out, metadata changes...
That’s certainly a valid concern and a good reason for a local media library, but I’d say it’s not really relevant to the question of avoiding AI slop. Losing access to tracks or having them replaced by inferior “remastered” versions is definitely a huge downside of relying on streaming services, but it’s a different problem from being served up something completely generated by AI.
 
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I think the issue is a bit semantic, because when you say 'hybrid song', we’re not thinking of an album that was mastered with one of the plugins using AI to do its thing. We're envisaging a song that has entire parts that are made with generative AI, even if it was written and partially performed by humans.
It's does not matter. It's still using AI as a tool ether way. What you are describing is someone uploading THEIR OWN WORKS into a AI tool to enhance the song (with the right textures). Ok, and? How many hours did that person worked on that song (writing the melodies and lyrics, playing the instruments or making the beat on a MPC or FL Studio, singing the lyrics)? So once again you are going to discredit their work because that person used AI as a tool to RETRAIN their OWN works? You can't steal your own music sir

You keep putting people making hybrid songs (human and AI involvement of their work) in with people who just text to song with a AI tool.
 
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It's does not matter. It's still using AI as a tool ether way. What you and I is talking about is someone uploading THEIR OWN WORKS into a AI tool to enhance the song (with the right textures). Ok, and? How many hours did that person worked on that song (writing the melodies and lyrics, playing the instruments or making the best on a MPC or FL Studio, singing the lyrics)? So once again you are going to discredit their work because that person used AI as a tool to RETRAIN their OWN works? You can't steal your own music sir

You keep putting people making hybrid songs (human and AI involvement of the work) in with people who just text to song with a AI tool.
I don’t know about enhancing the song, but a hybrid song in the way I understand the word “hybrid” (chunks by humans and chunks by AI) should be banned into oblivion.

Enhancing small segments… I don’t know, I wish they could “enhance” them with non-AI tools. And depending on the “enhancement” it should be banned as well.


What we are talking about here is that a plugin is not an LLM. If the plugin uses an LLM, ban it into oblivion as well.
 
It's does not matter. It's still using AI as a tool ether way. What you and I is talking about is someone uploading THEIR OWN WORKS into a AI tool to enhance the song (with the right textures). Ok, and? How many hours did that person worked on that song (writing the melodies and lyrics, playing the instruments or making the beat on a MPC or FL Studio, singing the lyrics)? So once again you are going to discredit their work because that person used AI as a tool to RETRAIN their OWN works? You can't steal your own music sir

You keep putting people making hybrid songs (human and AI involvement of their work) in with people who just text to song with a AI tool.
I think it’s important to try to understand so we’re on the same page here. What, exactly, is it you’re envisioning here? Someone makes a bedroom recording of a mostly finished song, uploads it to ChatGPT, and says ‘enhance!’? (Metaphorically, the prompt is irrelevant)

Is there some AI tool I’m unaware of that does such a job?

I would support the labelling of this hypothetical practice so I can enjoy not listening to it. Mastering a track is a skill not many appreciate who aren’t aware of it.
 
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