Apple NAB Announcements?

[Eniregnat]

... if you can't get one of these programs to suite your music/audio editing needs i hate to tell you this but YOU are more likely the problem and just dont know the software well enough. ---.

I agree!
I have worked as an audio engineer for over 7 years. In truth, I don't use LOGIC at work because we use a PC base with proprietary recording software. I use Sonic Foundry’s Sound Forge and Vegas(for multi track and video) as well as our in-house software. If I could use LOGIC and FCP at work I would. LOGIC is a great program! People that dislike it, dislike it because it is a powerful set of tools. I hate to chime in so often on this thread, but I see this all to often. People pan products that they don't know how to use, and/or don't have a use for. If I could afford LOGIC I would of bought it. I spent a bundle on FCP, and eventually will get LOGIC for my "non-work" projects and for school.

As I stated previously, if all of Apple’s pro-applications integrated seamlessly and were completely extensible then those upgrades alone would grab peoples attention. The QT engine is already completely scalable, so that hurdle has been met. I just hope that other applications on other platforms will be able to work with Apple’s applications so that a render or editing house doesn’t have to be just Sun, or clone, or Apple.

[Edited to include quote]

 

[Mr. G4]

I don't know if anyone noticed that all the Apple Brenthaven bags are on sale. The 17" or 15" bagpack usually go for $179 are now only $129. So I went to pick one up at the Apple store in Costa Mesa, CA. They didn't have them in stock. So I asked the Apple guy if the price will stay for a long period or it is a new price...he told me that it will stay at that price because new design are coming out soon. If that is any indication.

powerbooks might be a bit away yet , i was on the phone with apple UK regarding a order and droped the line " i will be ordering a new iBook as soon as it gets released " and the nice irish lady said that the iBook was due anytime now for a update ! to which i said yep a new form factor iBook would be what i'm looking for - and she then said she was not too sure on a new design but they are DEFINATLY going to be updating this April and maybe a widescreen edition for the range would show up also - and as for Tiger 10.4 - i said rumors have it on either the 1st or the 15th and she said the normal line of apple does not tell them until it has been released so who knows ?

 

[nuckinfutz]

I don't think people are trying to pan Logic Pro. I think they just realize that it's not going to compete well with the likes of Pro Tools and Nuendo 3.

You can make great music with Logic. You can create scores for music and it's a VERY powerful tool. The problem is the core. It's still based on old code deep down that can't be modified easily without breaking the app. This is going to limit its ability to take advantage of Tigers new features. I don't think Apple is down on Logic but I think they had plans to create a new DAW when they began to plan Audio Units and Core Audio.

Steve Jobs is rumoured to have looked at Logics UI and said something like "what the hell is that?" Let's be honest...intuitive at first glance Logic ain't.

There have been rumors going back a year about a mythical 64bit DAW from Apple that people had seen actually working. It didn't make sense then because Apple didn't have a 64bit OS...until now.

With Tiger sporting a new Quicktime 7 and enhanced Core Audio it seems likely to be the new bedrock for Apple's Pro applications. Trust me Logic isn't going to be able to compete against a new DAW with QT7 and Core Audio/Video/Image as its foundation. It will be too powerful and if Apple does the UI right I expect Logic users to migrate over enmass once the midi facilities are up to snuff for them.

Logic will probably receive more upgrades but I see it getting put into maintainence mode in a year. I see Emagic engineers beginning to work on the new DAW(ProBand???)

Logics weakness is that "Video" people aren't going to take the time to grok its wonders. They need a peer level app that excels in a FCP workflow. Apple's actions point to a new app being the one...not Logic.

 

[wdlove]

Does anyone recall any major Apple announcements on a Friday? (April 1 and April 15 are both Fridays.) I'm not saying this WON'T happen on these dates, but Apple typically makes product announcements on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Typically Apple does make announcements on Mondays or Tuesdays. It seems that lately they are trying to throw us off guard. Either way we will know for sure a week from Friday.

 

[h'biki]

. I've used logic for a lot of film audio editing, scoring, and straight music editing and it's more than capable of doing all that needs to be done. Apple 'making a pro tools app'???? when they already own Logic?? that'd be like apple making a version of Premiere when they already have FCP (and FCP express)

No, its not. While Logic is capable of doing audio editing and mixing, it doesn't do it anywhere near as well as ProTools. ProTools is the industry standard for a reason. Oh, and the OMF handling is shonky. Not being able to handle OMF well just kills you as far as an audio post path is concerned.

Its like FCP is capable of doing compositing and colour correction, but Shake is much better at it because thats how its entire workflow and toolset is designed.

Its the same reason that Steinberg have both Nuendo and Cubase SX. Same core audio engine, but different workflows = different products.

A version of Logic geared towards sound- for-picture would be very very welcome.

 

[Geetar]

" While Logic is capable of doing audio editing and mixing, it doesn't do it anywhere near as well as ProTools, at least as far as I'm concerned."


T, FTFY.


Some of what you say is true. Some is your personal opinion. You'd be surprised (or would you, if you were to actually be honest....?) if you really knew how much of the pure audio business survives and prospers without Protools.

As I stated, I'm not entirely disagreeing with you, just in case that wasn't clear. Protools has definitely become a standard.......but then so have many other relatively mediocre products, in a whole variety of industries. Its audio handling is only average in purely sonic terms, and is slayed by even antiquated stuff like Paris- and most certainly by more economically-coded programmes like SAW. Its MIDI abilities are VERY ho-hum compared to e.g. Logic; and its remedies for its more egregious deficiencies (like, until recently, plug-in latency compensation) fall short of the class leaders- but so too does Logic in this respect. Clearly, NONE of these pieces of software is perfect. Protools has the advantage of having achieved a critical mass in the business, and I can assure you that they'll use their position to leave you hanging out to dry on a fair few features that other less well-promoted products deal with a whole lot better.

Sort of reminds me of the Redmond guys.

If anyone doubts any of this, I invite them to spend(or waste, depending on your viewpoint) an educational hour or two on the Digidesign Users' Conference.





Bloomin' whingeing Aussies!

 

[Maxiseller]

Logic...

It's having a bashing really isn't it.

The problem I feel here is that only professional users will ever be purchasing the program. It's not open to the "mass judgement" that somthing like iTunes is up for, and it simply has to keep up to date with changing technologies to make the product worthwhile to a musician no?

I've been surviving on Logic Pro 6 since it came out, and supprisingly I use an emac and a powerbook to get by. I don't need a dual processor G5 (I'd love one of course, but I don't need one. I'm not going to upgrade. You see, as a composer (mainly classical and so Sibelius is the main tool for scoring) I like to get to know my equipment. I like to be able to explore as much as I possibly can without getting fumbled in the mass of new technology. New sounds, synths, patches, effects and freezing techniques don't make a piece great. Some of the best songs ever made were completed by cutting and slicing the original multi-track tape - so lets face it, we have it very easy. You seriously tell me that you NEED a Dual Powermac G5 to get the job done? Nope.

To me, it doesn't matter what Apple plan to do with logic. I'm happy with the interface. After all, we're not getting into the same grounds as Garageband here are we; Just look at the added complexity. If Mr. jobs believes that he can take the Logic interface and turn it into an array of pulsating blue buttons, he is sadly mistaken. If they mess up, I'll choose the best platform I can to get the job done - but only when I need to. At the moment, i can manage. I make a very tidy living out of this managing. And I will keep on managing until the day comes that I've outgrown my tidy emac that chuggs away at its task and never lets me down : andLogic will keep going with me. Logic 9 may be my next upgrade, but even then, will that make me a better composer? Do you think Mozart relied on better processed Manuscript paper to write his Clarinet Concerto?

 

[Yvan256]

I know what they'll release at NAB

I just bought a Mac mini, so they'll update it in two weeks.

 

[Jovian9]

Come on, iBook mini! (widescreen 7" 800x480, Radeon 9200/32MB, no optical drive, 1GHz G4, 512MB built-in, no RAM slot, 1.8" 30GB HD, 1 USB 2.0, 1 FireWire 400, S-Video out, 802.11g and Bluetooth built-in).

That would be awesome! It would be perfect for me to use for work. Though I doubt it will happen
My bank account is there for you Apple........release it!

 

[gekko513]

What's (a) DAW?

 

[crpchristian]

It's having a bashing really isn't it.

... we're not getting into the same grounds as Garageband here are we; Just look at the added complexity. If Mr. jobs believes that he can take the Logic interface and turn it into an array of pulsating blue buttons, he is sadly mistaken.

Absolutley. This is a PRO app people. Any of you use a pro 3D program.. those things have miles of sub menus and for the most part you can use a lot of it on a regular basis. You can only make those programs so simple as far as interface in concerned. Even software like Reason (which is about as flawless as software gets), which is very intuitive, still can take a while to really start to master. As much as Logic offers, once you get use to it, the interface enables really fast work with a lot of control. If you are a professional musician, and i assure you there are at least as many of them as there are video makers, Logic is a quite the treat ( and there is a very large respectable pro user base for Logic). Yes, i could go for interface improvements but thats hardly a need to replace the entire program. If you're a video maker and want incredible complex audio, guess what , you need to take time and learn how to or pay someone to do it.

I can also see how you could make a more powerful program with Tiger but its really not that neccessary (audio is not nearly as bad as video). On my old dual 533 G4 i can run 40 seperate effects, with 20 audio track all running through multiple Bus' WHILE running reason with maybe 30 units in the rack in rewire mode...ALL IN REAL TIME. With a top of the line G5 you could probably pull maybe 10x the amount off. 3D and Video will never be fast enough, audio however, is not the same way.



Oh yeah.. DAW - Digital Audio Workstation

 

[aafuss1]

I'm not expecting a majpor new release of Logic at NAB-perhaps later in the year (September).

 

[h'biki]

Some of what you say is true. Some is your personal opinion.

All of its my personal opinion Whether it be true or not is besides the point

You'd be surprised (or would you, if you were to actually be honest....?) if you really knew how much of the pure audio business survives and prospers without Protools.

I'm sure there are plenty. ProTools certainly isn't the only application is its class. Its just a useful comparison against Logic in terms of its workflow, particularly w/r/t sound-for-picture. Whatever my other issues with ProTools and Digidesign, I find that the interface for ProTools is very intuitive for audio editing and mixing. I'd much rather sound edit and mix in ProTools than in Logic [never really got around to playing with Nuendo, but I've heard very very good things]. But thats because of the workflow and how it responds to my usage of it. A version for Logic could be geared for sound-for-picture in the same way that Nuendo differs from Cubase.

In other words, I'm not disagreeing with you either. Just saying that there is a market for Apple to aim new DAW software at.

 

[Lacero]

What's (a) DAW?

Digital Audio Workstation. ProTools is considered a DAW.

 

[NevadaJack]

IMAC at NAB?

I just received a promotion from the Apple Store featuring the iMac! If they were getting ready to announce a Rev B, would they just one week before the date of announcement feature the "old" iMac? I am new to the ways of Apple but if I ordered as a result of this email promotion and then a week later they announced a new model I would be kind of upset. What say the experts on prognostication about such a move on April 1st for the iMac?

Waiting for Rev B with One Click ready....

 

[FCPnewbie]

am i the only one?

When I read the rumor about FCP, DVDSP, a pro video app and a pro audio app, I didn't think much of it. But then as the day wore on, I began wondering what the heck Apple needed another pro video app for. Then it hit me 3-D!!!! Ok, I know it's stupid to get my hopes up for a 3-D app from Apple but think of the implications of an Apple branded 3-D app. Holy mother of God that would be sweet!
In college I looked over lightwave, and was hopelessly lost, I can only hope that apple has something coming down the pipeline that's easier to use.
Probably putting the cart before the horse, but I'm hoping.

-Ethan

 

[cyanide]

Apple and 3D

I can actually see this coming. Maybe not at NAB. Maybe not even at WWDS05, but I can see it on the horizon. It would be an amazing .app, and a necessary tool for any PRO user to have. I think they could spank any app out there, but it would be a matter of getting it recognized as a superior .app. (probably not too hard as long its not a Motion situation in which case it isnt actually better.. yet) Our trusty CEO has the skills to pay the bills when it comes to making friends with 3D. cough, pixar, cough. i am not sure but i thought i recalled a story about pixar switching over to apple. that was a while back now, but maybe they knew something? all pure speculation, here's hoping for the best of whatever we get next month!

 

[fearless]

New Pro Audio App

I wouldn't mind betting the new pro audio app, if it exists, is a version of Logic specially aimed at film & video post. Logic is more a music package, and until there's a version that's skewed more toward post-production than creation, Apple doesn't have a look in against Avid/Digidesign ProTools.

So I'm betting in favour of a clean interface, good filters and robust support for OMFs and the like...

<footnote>I see others concur.

 

[Jacknusa]

What would be more interesting than faster PMs is if Apple took a new radical approach to the whole interface/userexperience of FCP - not as in re-designing the screen layout, but came up with a "tactile control surface" - there are third party jog/shuttle wheels, 3-track ball CC controllers - there are people using wacom tablets etc etc... all these things point to a need for a more coherrent and unified APPLICATION INTEGRATED control surface. Look at what Digidesign did with ICON...

Will Apple challange the keyboard/mouse paradigm and go "neo-retro" with a totally new take on the "Edit controller"?

Jack

 

[Scottgfx]

What's (a) DAW?

Dynamic Application Widget

 

[FFTT]

I'm still trying to understand why AVID bought M-Audio, but ProTools
is not available as a stand alone app that will recognise and work with
non-ProTools interfaces.

ProTools may currently be the imbedded standard, but Apple has a chance
to put them in their place, IF... they can improve analog audio recording
without the need for proprietory TDM/HD OVERPRICED hardware.

Synth sounds may be fine for drums, strings, horns and effects,
but this doesn't help you with vocals and miked instruments.
I want my '64 vintage guitars to sound like vintage guitars and not some
digital pseudo-guitar.


An improved version of Logic seems to have great potential if
Apple can improve analog audio capabilities with 64 bit quality.

 

[dekator]

powerbooks might be a bit away yet , i was on the phone with apple UK regarding a order and droped the line " i will be ordering a new iBook as soon as it gets released " and the nice irish lady said that the iBook was due anytime now for a update ! to which i said yep a new form factor iBook would be what i'm looking for - and she then said she was not too sure on a new design but they are DEFINATLY going to be updating this April and maybe a widescreen edition for the range would show up also - and as for Tiger 10.4 - i said rumors have it on either the 1st or the 15th and she said the normal line of apple does not tell them until it has been released so who knows ?

Well, new iBooks would be nice too. Apple is actually losing ground on the portable front.

BTW, what is "DEFINATLY" supposed to mean? Isn't it 'defiantly' ??? Definitely looks funny.

 

[Mac Kiwi]

Hmm,what about Motion Pro?....possible?

 

[pherplexed]

any thoughts on FCP?

I'm new to the mac (about 6 months) and I switched over b/c my research showed me that FCP and Motion were a superior video suite than anything offered for the PC. I have to say i am VERY disappointed with FCP and motion both. So I really hope they will be making some major enhancements to those Apps. Will the new quicktime codec and core video be able to help FCP's pathetic "real-time" capabilities? A better integration between FCP and motion would be very welcome too. Motion is so buggy and crash-prone, i've basically stopped using it.

For you hardcore Apple video users...any thoughts to what might be next for FCP and motion?

 

[mk_in_mke]

Guess you are right

I wonder what the news is of Motion. That is the application which perhaps needs the most work but also has the most possibilities. I assume DVD SP might get HD support now and Powermacs may feature Blueray burners as a BTO.
If news of the FCP update is true and it does need Tiger support then we are faced with the possibilty that either 10.4 is released mid April or we have another couple of months to wait before these applications actually ship.

Most of the announcement do not take effect immediately... Previews of application at NAB and availability couple months after (june is like a trend at Apple after an April announcement)... Lat week there was an article about the Itunes + motorola phone... One executive at Motorola explaining the delay of the product said "Steve Jobs does not make any announcement unless the product is ready to be shipped" this kind of contradicts what I wrote in my post but based on my experience:
- New products at NAB
- Applications availability in May or June
- New macs confirmed at Mac developers conference